Been offered Pfizer and Astra Zeneca?

[placeholder]

56 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Australians are unique individuals and will stand up for that they feel is right.

 

Why are they still largely unvaccinated, not because they don't have enough jabs to go around, but because the blame the Prime Minister put his foot in it early when he boasted that he secured 50 million doses of AZ and at the same time said that he would make it mandatory for everyone to get vaccinated, only to be on the back foot the following day when everyone was up in arms, that said, it's now the vaccine passport that is stirring up trouble, with the government saying if you want to travel you must be vaccinated !

 

His comments in my view and many Australians views are nothing short of vaccine blackmail, vaccine passports restricts the freedoms, movements and liberties of Australians.

 

There are a number of laws that exist that make it a criminal offence for a government to coerce or make mandatory any form of medical treatment against the will of the individual. These laws were brought in after the 2nd world war revolting against the Nazi's and other totalitarian regimes that were conducting 'scientific experiments'.

 

In any given society the government's role is to persuade, not to coerce or to mandate.

 

By all means, the government must keep its citizens safe from the corona virus by all ethical means possible. This requires persuading the public that the various vaccine options are safe (where available) and that they serve the common good.

The government can even claim that they are essential for the borders to be fully opened up to incoming tourists/people as has been commonplace around the world for decades in any number of health scenarios.

 

You are correct in saying that she can be asymptomatic and infect others, the same can be said for the Flu and Pneumonia.

 

We all have choices, we are not anti-vaxers, but will eventually, more than likely get the vaccination, might just be a matter of choice, once more data is in.

 

 

 

So there are no mandatory vaccination laws in Australia? 

[Hanuman2547]

This is simple.  Get the Pfizer.  It's much better than the AstraZeneca.  I got my second Pfizer back on 3 May.  I didn't have any side affects except for a sore arm.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Hanuman2547 said:

This is simple.  Get the Pfizer.  It's much better than the AstraZeneca.  I got my second Pfizer back on 3 May.  I didn't have any side affects except for a sore arm.

They've also announced a booster coming possibly in September.  For Pfizer.   Suppose to really get your immune system going against covid.

[4MyEgo]

28 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So there are no mandatory vaccination laws in Australia? 

 

The damage was already done by his comment back in August last year, e.g. "I would expect it to be as mandatory as you could possibly make it," he told Melbourne radio station 3AW.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-19/morrison-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-mandatory/12572992

 

You just don't say $hit like that to the public, unless you expect your prepared to expect a backlash.

 

9 months after his comment you now have this:

 

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/growing-number-of-australians-say-they-will-never

 

[friendofthai]

15 hours ago, Negita43 said:

As far as I am aware the Astrazeneca jab is based on a similar process to the annual flue jab which always give me problems with persistent cold like symtoms. So much so that I have declined the flu jab for many years (apart from this season but again cold like issues)

 

I'm in the UK and fortunately I have had two Pfizer Jabs with absolutely no issues (apart from sore arm at injection site) so I would, based on my experience, choose the Pfizer vaccine.

As far as we know from the following article (already mentioned above) - 

https://www.prevention.com/health/a35118263/astrazeneca-vs-pfizer-vs-moderna-covid-19-vaccine/#

"side effects are similar, including potential injection site pain and flu-like symptoms, including fever, fatigue, headaches, and muscle soreness"

So if you don't have any typical side effects it could be the result of a bad vaccine sample due to improper storage conditions. Pfizer vaccine is based on quite fragile mRNA molecules which require strict storage conditions. I would recommend to make a test to be sure that you have antibodies already in your blood. In case of negative result, there are a lot of other good vaccines from Russia and China that could be used.

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, friendofthai said:

As far as we know from the following article (already mentioned above) - 

https://www.prevention.com/health/a35118263/astrazeneca-vs-pfizer-vs-moderna-covid-19-vaccine/#

"side effects are similar, including potential injection site pain and flu-like symptoms, including fever, fatigue, headaches, and muscle soreness"

So if you don't have any typical side effects it could be the result of a bad vaccine sample due to improper storage conditions. Pfizer vaccine is based on quite fragile mRNA molecules which require strict storage conditions. I would recommend to make a test to be sure that you have antibodies already in your blood. In case of negative result, there are a lot of other good vaccines from Russia and China that could be used.

 

Your information is out of date:

Pfizer vaccine can now be stored in fridge for longer, EU drug regulator says

The European Union's drugs regulator has said the Pfizer Covid vaccine can now be stored at fridge temperature for much longer than it previously recommended.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) said that once the vaccines thawed, unopened vials could be kept in the fridge for up to a month.

The current limit is just five days.

Pfizer vaccine can now be stored in fridge for longer, EU drug regulator says - BBC News

[friendofthai]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Your information is out of date:

Pfizer vaccine can now be stored in fridge for longer, EU drug regulator says

The European Union's drugs regulator has said the Pfizer Covid vaccine can now be stored at fridge temperature for much longer than it previously recommended.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) said that once the vaccines thawed, unopened vials could be kept in the fridge for up to a month.

The current limit is just five days.

Pfizer vaccine can now be stored in fridge for longer, EU drug regulator says - BBC News

I have read the article and I have not find anything about the reason for relaxing storage conditions. There are only 2 possible reasons for such a decision:

1. Relaxing quality requirements. That means some people (3%..5%...10%.. who knows?) will get a product with inferior quality or even an unusable product.
2. Obtaining evidence that the relaxed storage conditions still meet the existing quality requirements.

It is not clear from the article what is the actual reason for relaxing storage conditions - 1) or 2).
Maybe this is not important for western countries. But in China and Russia protecting people has the highest priority.

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

I have read the article and I have not find anything about the reason for relaxing storage conditions. There are only 2 possible reasons for such a decision:

1. Relaxing quality requirements. That means some people (3%..5%...10%.. who knows?) will get a product with inferior quality or even an unusable product.
2. Obtaining evidence that the relaxed storage conditions still meet the existing quality requirements.

It is not clear from the article what is the actual reason for relaxing storage conditions - 1) or 2).
Maybe this is not important for western countries. But in China and Russia protecting people has the highest priority.

Such nonsense. Like other pharmaceutical companies, Pfizer is closely regulated by the FDA.

Yeah, China has  a great record when it comes to protecting citizens from the greed of Big Pharma.

 

Sinovac CEO caught for bribing Chinese regulator remains unscathed and continues to oversee COVID-19 vaccine development

Sinovac CEO caught for bribing Chinese regulator remains unscathed and continues to oversee COVID-19 vaccine development (theonlinecitizen.com)

And, in fact, has a sterling record in general when it comes to protecting public health..

2008 Chinese milk scandal

2008 Chinese milk scandal - Wikipedia

 

Total and speciated arsenic levels in rice from China

Total and speciated arsenic levels in rice from China - PubMed (nih.gov)

Edited May 21, 2021 by placeholder

[Damrongsak]

18 hours ago, covidiot said:

...annie, you can trust me. i'm a virologist. ha ha. just kidding.

I'm just a viral vector.

 

[DavisH]

The UK uses both Pfizer and astrazeneca. So far, real world data shows efficacy to be similar between them. Over time, more data will be collected, as there is no data for soem aspects of az and the same data for pzifer is still classified as low confidence. But controlling symptomatic infection is similar between them. 

https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccines-provide-similar-protection-against-symptomatic-covid-19-study-1805037-2021-05-21

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, friendofthai said:

I have read the article and I have not find anything about the reason for relaxing storage conditions. There are only 2 possible reasons for such a decision:

1. Relaxing quality requirements. That means some people (3%..5%...10%.. who knows?) will get a product with inferior quality or even an unusable product.
2. Obtaining evidence that the relaxed storage conditions still meet the existing quality requirements.

It is not clear from the article what is the actual reason for relaxing storage conditions - 1) or 2).
 

#2

 

They had not previously tested storage for longer periods in normal fridge.

 

They went with what they knew for certain at the time.

 

Same thing as expiration dates on medications. Contrary to what people often assume, these are nto dates after which it is known the medication is no good. These  are the dates through which there is data to show continued effectiveness. Very different things. Usually no date exists beyond that period so they limit the rec to what they have data to back it up with.

 

Pfizer could nto lower quality standards if it wanted to, they have to meet FDA and EMA requirements which are quite strict.

 

Note that storage at extremely lower temperatures is still required through most of the supply chain. It is just the final 30 days at point of care that has relaxed.

[mommysboy]

In terms of real world effectiveness they are about the same, ie, excellent.  The AZ vaccine is associated with a small risk of a rare blood clotting syndrome, whereas the Pfizer's adverse effects appear less obvious but are there in very, very small numbers. Probably Pfizer- or toss a coin maybe!

[Sheryl]

9 hours ago, friendofthai said:

As far as we know from the following article (already mentioned above) - 

https://www.prevention.com/health/a35118263/astrazeneca-vs-pfizer-vs-moderna-covid-19-vaccine/#

"side effects are similar, including potential injection site pain and flu-like symptoms, including fever, fatigue, headaches, and muscle soreness"

So if you don't have any typical side effects it could be the result of a bad vaccine sample due to improper storage conditions. Pfizer vaccine is based on quite fragile mRNA molecules which require strict storage conditions. I would recommend to make a test to be sure that you have antibodies already in your blood.

 

 

there is absolutely no reason to suspect a bad batch just because someone had no side effects (in fact, he reports local side effects which are the most common ones to occur).  Side effect are far from universal, it is known that  about 25% have no systemic side effects at all.

 

With any medication or vaccine, the listed side effects are not expected to occur in all or even most people.  All it takes to be listed as a side effect is for something to occur significantly  (in statistical terms) more often in people who took the medication/received the vaccine than in a control group. It can be as little as 1% or less who experience it and still be listed as a side efefct.

 

 

[Letseng]

On 5/20/2021 at 12:53 AM, Scott said:

I think you might have problems down the road since these are two different types of vaccine that work in different ways.   I would check with an expert on the issue, otherwise, for the best results, stick with the AZ for the second shot.  

 

There is research being done by Oxford re heterologue vaccination. Final result expected in a few months. Sofar good results. Germany already does it. I believe Spain as well.

[shdmn]

15 hours ago, Hanuman2547 said:

This is simple.  Get the Pfizer.  It's much better than the AstraZeneca.  I got my second Pfizer back on 3 May.  I didn't have any side affects except for a sore arm.

No it's not.  They both have similar efficacy in the real world.  Pfizer can give you heart inflamation which can be fatal.  About the same percentage as AZ can give you a blood clot.  So no, one is not really better than the other no matter how you look at it.

 

Also, in Thailand (or anywhere for that matter) the odds of the Pfizer not being kept at the proper temperature when frozen are higher because of the ultra low temp storage requirements.  No, I am not talking about their recently increased thaw temp time.  That's different than frozen temp which it needs to be when transported.

Edited May 21, 2021 by shdmn

[melovethai]

On 5/20/2021 at 5:41 AM, shdmn said:

I had an option of both so I went with AZ for first shot and will probably go with Pfizer for 2nd shot.  It looks like that will probably give the highest efficacy across the broadest spectrum.  My only concern is if Thailand will allow travel to their country after getting 2 shots of different kinds.  Officially they are only allowing 2 of the same kind so far.

It has always been recommended not to mix doses

[friendofthai]

17 hours ago, placeholder said:

Like other pharmaceutical companies, Pfizer is closely regulated by the FDA.

Yes, its true. But FDA believes the gentlemen's word and use the data provided by Pfizer, not by any independent lab in EU or US:

"Based on a review of recent data submitted by Pfizer Inc. today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is authorizing undiluted, thawed Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine vials to be stored in the refrigerator at 2°C to 8°C (35°F to 46°F) for up to 1 month."

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-brief-fda-authorizes-longer-time-refrigerator-storage-thawed-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine

Edited May 22, 2021 by friendofthai

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Yes, its true. But FDA believe the gentlemen's word and use data provided by Pfizer, not by any independent lab in EU:

"Based on a review of recent data submitted by Pfizer Inc. today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is authorizing undiluted, thawed Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine vials to be stored in the refrigerator at 2°C to 8°C (35°F to 46°F) for up to 1 month."

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-brief-fda-authorizes-longer-time-refrigerator-storage-thawed-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine

Any evidence that it's done differently in China? Or elsewhere?

In China, they actually continue to allow the CEO of Sinovac which bribed a government regulator, to keep his position.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Any evidence that it's done differently in China? Or elsewhere?

In China, they actually continue to allow the CEO of Sinovac which bribed a government regulator, to keep his position.

In the US, that company that was producing J&J, and screwed up a bunch of batches due to dodgy practices, got their jobs due to massive donations to Republican politicians.  Terrible.  Politics at it's worst.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/18/us/politics/emergent-vaccine.html

 

Troubled Vaccine Maker and Its Founder Gave $2 Million in Political Donations

Emergent BioSolutions faces scrutiny in Congress for ruining Covid-19 vaccines and securing lucrative federal contracts. Executives will appear before some lawmakers who benefited from the company’s spending.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

In the US, that company that was producing J&J, and screwed up a bunch of batches due to dodgy practices, got their jobs due to massive donations to Republican politicians.  Terrible.  Politics at it's worst.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/18/us/politics/emergent-vaccine.html

 

Troubled Vaccine Maker and Its Founder Gave $2 Million in Political Donations

Emergent BioSolutions faces scrutiny in Congress for ruining Covid-19 vaccines and securing lucrative federal contracts. Executives will appear before some lawmakers who benefited from the company’s spending.

Not denying that this company engaged in shoddy practices, in effect bribery,  to get where it is.

But I don't see what it has to do with friendofthai's ridiculous claim "But in China and Russia protecting people has the highest priority." And his further ridiculous casting of doubts on Pfizer because the follow-up research came from them. Is this any different from the way it's done elsewhere?

China, in fact, has a dismal record of protecting public health.

[friendofthai]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

Sinovac CEO caught for bribing Chinese regulator remains unscathed and continues to oversee COVID-19 vaccine development

Sinovac CEO caught for bribing Chinese regulator remains unscathed and continues to oversee COVID-19 vaccine development (theonlinecitizen.com)

And, in fact, has a sterling record in general when it comes to protecting public health..

So you have just demonstrated that the Chinese regulator just does not believe the gentlemen`s word that the vaccine is safe. And the business gentlemen are forced to improve the quality of the product. An attempt to get around this was thwarted. Because it is well known that  in China and Russia protecting people has the highest priority.
I hope that FDA will perform an independent investigation instead of believing the gentlemen`s word. The Chinese or Russian experiences could be used to do it.

Edited May 22, 2021 by friendofthai

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

So you have just demonstrated that the Chinese regulator just does not believe the gentlemen`s word that the vaccine is safe. And the business gentlemen are forced to improve the quality of the product. An attempt to get around this was thwarted. Because it is well known that  in China and Russia protecting people has the highest priority.
I hope that FDA will perform an independent investigation instead of believing the gentlemen`s word. The Chinese or Russian experiences could be used to do it.

He just demonstrated you can cheat and lie in China and get away with it.

 

China and Russia protect their own people?  Perhaps the biggest troll post I've seen in weeks! ????????

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

He just demonstrated you can cheat and lie in China and get away with it.

You are wrong. Because you has forgotten already the N1 rule - "in China and Russia protecting people has the highest priority".
Chinese and Russian governments understands very clearly that big business is not a good place for looking for saints and sinless people. The converse is also true. A church is not a good place for looking for good businessmen. So when Chinese or Russian government think about replacing a bad businessmen with a sinless man from a church, government also think that the sinless man will ruin the vaccine production business very quickly. And people will suffer from the vaccine deficiency. So, according to the N1 rule, this should not be done.

[placeholder]

Just now, friendofthai said:

You are wrong. Because you has forgotten already the N1 rule - "in China and Russia protecting people has the highest priority".
Chinese and Russian governments understands very clearly that big business is not a good place for looking for saints and sinless people. The converse is also true. A church is not a good place for looking for good businessmen. So when Chinese or Russian government think about replacing a bad businessmen with a sinless man from a church, government also think that the sinless man will ruin the vaccine production business very quickly. And people will suffer from the vaccine deficiency. So, according to the N1 rule, this should not be done.

So between being a saint/sinless person and a criminal there is no middle ground? Such nonsense.

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

So between being a saint/sinless person and a criminal there is no middle ground? Such nonsense.

Saving millions of lives is much more important than punishing a single bad man. Because we should always remember the N1 rule in China and Russia.

[placeholder]

Just now, friendofthai said:

Saving millions of lives is much more important than punishing a single bad man. Because we should always remember the N1 rule in China and Russia.

More nonsense. It's not a question of either/or. No reason you can't do both.

[friendofthai]

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

More nonsense. It's not a question of either/or. No reason you can't do both.

The government has to choose between a very good businessmen with a criminal record and ... a lottery ticket. Punishing is ok when we are talking about household goods business but it is too risky when we are talking about medication that saves millions of people lives.

Edited May 22, 2021 by friendofthai

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

The government have to choose between a very good businessmen with a criminal record and ... a lottery ticket. Punishing is ok when we are talking about household goods business but it is too risky when we are talking about medication that saves millions of people lives.

If a pharmaceutical company's operations and reliability depend on 1 person, then it's a shambles and shouldn't be allowed to continue operating. Don't think that's the case for Sinovac. 

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

You are wrong. Because you has forgotten already the N1 rule - "in China and Russia protecting people has the highest priority".
Chinese and Russian governments understands very clearly that big business is not a good place for looking for saints and sinless people. The converse is also true. A church is not a good place for looking for good businessmen. So when Chinese or Russian government think about replacing a bad businessmen with a sinless man from a church, government also think that the sinless man will ruin the vaccine production business very quickly. And people will suffer from the vaccine deficiency. So, according to the N1 rule, this should not be done.

Stop trolling.  Russia and China have some of the worst human rights records in the world.  You're Russian, so your view of things is a bit different.

 

I put no credibility into anything the Russian or Chinese governments say.  They're well known for telling porkies.  And killing their citizens.

 

Can we get back to the topic?  Please....

[Sundown]

On 5/20/2021 at 1:55 PM, Catoni said:

Finding out about mRNA….(which they have actually been working on for a few decades now for various things)  Google is your friend. 
 
  “…they say we all need to take it again..” (…next year…) 

Who exactly is “…they…” ? ? 

 

Those who make trillions with the vaccine and pandemic. Including those bloomberg , the economist and other bs newspapers that just push what they are paid for. Wonder why the best of the best jab is from a company backed by Bill Gates? The same company whose stocks rose 10x during the Pandemic. Of course, it was not planned. Just Bill happened to make trillions investing in a pharma company and the biggest pandemic hit. Oh, this guy must be very lucky...

 

To stay in topic, there is no best jab. Of course the western sources will tell you that their jab is better. Really? Two elderly relatives of mines in Europe took the Pfizer and both were seriously sick up to one week with fever and cramps. But they were never sick even when they caught the virus. 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Sundown