asking price v selling price

[jackdd]

4 hours ago, RocketDog said:

FYI, I  bought a house here two years ago and it has a 90yr  lease on the land. House and lease are fully transferable in my will to anybody, Thai or otherwise, I can sell it, etc.

 

Neither house/condo/villa have to be in the name of a Thai national, as many on TVF believe. There is no particular reason it must be in her name. In fact it seems to be needless financial exposure to many expats here.

 

Engage a lawyer. I paid 50k ฿ to cover everything related to the sale and any future issues.

Maximum legally enforceable lease (usufruct) duration is 30 years. So there is a good chance that after 30 years you will have to pay a bonus or will have to leave the land.

Next time try to find a more honest lawyer.

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by jackdd

[ThailandRyan]

Just now, jackdd said:

Maximum legally enforceable lease (usufruct) duration is 30 years. So there is a good chance that after 30 years you will have to pay again or will have to leave the land.

Next time try to find a more honest lawyer.

 

Waiting on the new and unlikely to be approved 50 year lease, they mentioned over a month ago.....

[chrisandsu]

17 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Maximum legally enforceable lease (usufruct) duration is 30 years. So there is a good chance that after 30 years you will have to pay a bonus or will have to leave the land.

Next time try to find a more honest lawyer.

 

And also if the lease agreement is between you and the other half and you get married it’s not worth the paper it’s written on . 

[xtrnuno41]

4 hours ago, RocketDog said:

They are quite common actually. I have three 30 year leases that run consecutively. At the beginning of each I must simply inform the owner of my intention to stay.

 

But again, engage a real estate attorney. $1500 is less than 1% of the cost of my house and I'm very glad I did it.

iM amazed, as far as i know,Thai law only knows 30 year leases. You can put up in the lease the INTENTION of leasing another 30 year, but if owner says "no ", then you are done. After 30 years you have to renew the contract for another 30 years and then again after that, again renewal.

Only a usufruct can last for live. All have their own rules.

But running straight 90 years on a row with an auto renewal, thats new. 

[steve3245]

2 hours ago, bluebluewater said:

Aye  -  this is an excellent idea!

is this the part where i have to say how long we have been together and that i trust her etc ?

 

obviously a tongue n cheek reply from yourself bluey

 

i never quoted how much i am putting in to it , or even if i am putting any money into it at all . i am just trying to get information on what the  thai property market is like  at the moment . but i get your point .

 

3 weeks btw ????????

 

 

 

 

[steve3245]

14 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

Have seen some reduced from 18m to 10/11m bht . These are obviously overpriced to start with but they are mostly worth more than the new asking price and people have had no choice but to slash prices as Covid has ruined them financially as in some cases of people in business.

Property below 10m bht I think the most you will get off a place is 1/1.5m bht depending on the sellers desperation or not to sell quickly.

If the place is Thai owned then they will usually leave it at some mental price and hell shall freeze over before they drop it ????

thanks ronaldo

[steve3245]

5 hours ago, patman30 said:

you will probably find those who need to sell have already dropped their asking price
you can always get discount,
but mostly comes down to the owners position and how much they need to sell

where abouts are you looking ?
i do have a nice big spacious villa on 1 Rai for sale and a few condos

hua hin area patman

[ncc1701d]

I've never done this, but was thinking of this strategy... Research 5 or more properties that you would be happy to buy. Present your offer for each one at what price you are will to pay via the agent. Whoever replies first gets the sale. If multiple reply, you have a choice.

[patman30]

1 hour ago, ncc1701d said:

I've never done this, but was thinking of this strategy... Research 5 or more properties that you would be happy to buy. Present your offer for each one at what price you are will to pay via the agent. Whoever replies first gets the sale. If multiple reply, you have a choice.

or you could do what i have done if you got a good eye
just look at the photos
find the property on google earth
go there yourself without any agent
make your offer knowing there is no agent fee for the seller????

[steve3245]

1 hour ago, patman30 said:

or you could do what i have done if you got a good eye
just look at the photos
find the property on google earth
go there yourself without any agent
make your offer knowing there is no agent fee for the seller????

that's a great tip patman, what kind of discount have you been able to get percentage wise ?

 

is the agents commission high in thailand ?

[The Hammer2021]

On 5/30/2021 at 11:31 PM, steve3245 said:

thanks impulse

 

it will be in my girlfriends name .

 

is it common to get 10%-20% off the asking price ?

So it belongs to her not you? I have NEVER heard of problems with people using a front company  to own property  but FREQUENTLY hearing about foreigners  losing property  because they were stupid  enough  to put a property  in a girl's  name. DONT DO IT. Regarding discounts on houses  etc...its a buyers market and prices seem cheaper than for condos. Places worth  5 to 6 million  are going less than  4. A house near me was was reduced from 11 million to 7 million.  Being here on the ground helps

[bojo]

43 minutes ago, steve3245 said:

that's a great tip patman, what kind of discount have you been able to get percentage wise ?

 

is the agents commission high in thailand ?

That would also depend on what contract the seller has with the agent. They might still have to pay the commission even if the agent didn't even introduce you per se..................it could also end in someone's tears if it wre to get messy..........................

[bojo]

Another way to negotiate might be to ask the vendor what his lowest price is first after you have viewed the property, rather than you opening up first. You might be surprised...always better to let the other party open up first IMO....................................Plus if the market is depressed (I don't know if it is for your price range and area), wait till the seller has given his price, you then point out the faults and make comparisons and leave an offer on the table and walk away..............don't be impatient, give the seller plenty of time to let a potentially hard ball offer sink in and they maybe accept later..........................

[steve3245]

46 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

So it belongs to her not you? I have NEVER heard of problems with people using a front company  to own property  but FREQUENTLY hearing about foreigners  losing property  because they were stupid  enough  to put a property  in a girl's  name. DONT DO IT. Regarding discounts on houses  etc...its a buyers market and prices seem cheaper than for condos. Places worth  5 to 6 million  are going less than  4. A house near me was was reduced from 11 million to 7 million.  Being here on the ground helps

thanks thehammer2021 , that helps a lot .

 

 

[steve3245]

11 minutes ago, bojo said:

Another way to negotiate might be to ask the vendor what his lowest price is first after you have viewed the property, rather than you opening up first. You might be surprised...always better to let the other party open up first IMO....................................Plus if the market is depressed (I don't know if it is for your price range and area), wait till the seller has given his price, you then point out the faults and make comparisons and leave an offer on the table and walk away..............don't be impatient, give the seller plenty of time to let a potentially hard ball offer sink in and they maybe accept later..........................

thank you bojo

[steve3245]

@The Hammer2021 from everything i have read on here and other websites on the subject of buying a house in a company name , it seems to be a 50/50 split as to whether people suggest it is a good idea or not . as it is always quoted as setting up a company for the sole purpose of buying a property in thailand is illegal

 

any thoughts on that yourself ?

 

 

[Hanuman2547]

Nothing wrong with offering 50% of the listed the price.  All they can say is no.  I really wouldn't think anyone would accept that low of an offer but it is a starting point.  I also would never offer anything until I visually inspect the property.  I'm sure there are plenty of 6MB houses out there that can be bought for 4MB.  Condos even a better market for buyers due to so many foreigners leaving Thailand.

[newnative]

13 hours ago, bojo said:

That would also depend on what contract the seller has with the agent. They might still have to pay the commission even if the agent didn't even introduce you per se..................it could also end in someone's tears if it wre to get messy..........................

   Generally, this should not be the case unless the seller has some sort of exclusive contract with just one agency that requires him to pay the agency a commission when the property sells--perhaps because the agency has spent money on extensive, exclusive, marketing of the property.    Usually sellers will list with many agencies for as much exposure as possible--I always do--since there is no MLS, and if a buyer finds a property on his own with no agency involvement there should not be a commission to be paid.  

[patman30]

On 6/8/2021 at 8:00 PM, steve3245 said:

that's a great tip patman, what kind of discount have you been able to get percentage wise ?

 

is the agents commission high in thailand ?

some agents can take big chunks, and many times a few agents are involved
the property i bought this way
i got 10% discount, the house had already been heavily reduced for super quick sale as the seller needed funds for urgent medical treatment
However the seller already had a buyer lined up through an agent but no deposit had been paid or papers signed
as the potential buyer had to arrange for deposit funds to be transferred etc
my offer ensured the seller received 6% more than he would selling through the agent
i took cash with me when viewing and paid a deposit instantly (and worried about getting the rest together after)
viewed and paid deposit on Friday, all done and dusted by Tuesday.

[LivinLOS]

On 6/7/2021 at 12:42 AM, Yellowtail said:

I never understood what is insulting about making a low cash offer, if nothing else it opens negotiations. When I'm buying something,  and someone asks me what my target cost is, I tell them zero. I don't expect to hit it, but  the closer I get to the target the better. 

 

All depends on the person.. Its a really strange country where face trumps value very often. Seen it so many times. 

Westerners who have to leave is a desperate sector. A friend bought a really nice place asking 5.5 for 2.4 couldnt build it for much more than that offer.. On Phuket I saw a 36 million baht villa sell for 12 after the last crash.. 

Yet on the same side I have had and been told of multiple examples where Thais raise the price as soon as they have someone interested ?!?!? Theres a lot of property thats just listed in a testing the waters or unrealistic value way IMO. 

Theres some deals popping up.. Moreso in tourist areas but feels like the dam is starting to break on sale prices where they broke on rental prices 6 months ago. 

[patman30]

On 6/8/2021 at 8:52 PM, bojo said:

Another way to negotiate might be to ask the vendor what his lowest price is first after you have viewed the property, rather than you opening up first. You might be surprised...always better to let the other party open up first IMO....................................Plus if the market is depressed (I don't know if it is for your price range and area), wait till the seller has given his price, you then point out the faults and make comparisons and leave an offer on the table and walk away..............don't be impatient, give the seller plenty of time to let a potentially hard ball offer sink in and they maybe accept later..........................

this is not wise if you actually like the property imo
may work with people who are desparate to sell
but low balling is an insult to those who can afford to not sell
plus you run the risk of another buyer coming along and buying that nice property
if you asked me "what is the lowest price?"
i would likely reply with "the asking price is X"

personally i think its better to put in the work and find a property where you would be happy to pay the asking price
then any negotiated discount is a bonus
 

Edited June 10, 2021 by patman30

[LivinLOS]

On 6/7/2021 at 3:34 PM, jackdd said:

Maximum legally enforceable lease (usufruct) duration is 30 years.

 

 

Usufructs and superficies can be lifetime. 

Also by having a +30 +30 lease you actually invalidate the first 30 years and make it unenforceable / illegal 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-law-long-term-leases-unenforceable-again-62140.php

Edited June 10, 2021 by LivinLOS

[Thomas J]

I don't know if this exists here in Thailand but in the USA properties sold have to be registered with the government for tax purposes.  Buyers and Real Estate agents use those to gauge what comparable properties in the same area actually sold for.  It also serves to show what the trend is.  If nearly identical properties in terms of size, amenities, and location sold for more 2 years ago, 1 year ago versus one selling 6 months ago, it shows that prices are depressed and trending downwards.   That provides a heavy incentive on a seller who wants to sell now, versus waiting fearing that the downward trend will only continue.  I suspect housing prices will continue to be soft and probably go softer.  The difficulty in traveling and entering Thailand makes purchases by foreigners less attractive.  Many Thais are financially strapped because of Covid hurting their business or employment.  I also suspect that at some time the Thai banks are going to have to move more aggressively at repossessing homes from people who are not paying on their mortgages.  Some homes in my village have been bank owned for over 5 years.  The carrying costs on those homes is detrimental to the banks and the deterioration of them makes all the homes in the area worth less. 

[LivinLOS]

40 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I don't know if this exists here in Thailand but in the USA properties sold have to be registered with the government for tax purposes.  Buyers and Real Estate agents use those to gauge what comparable properties in the same area actually sold for.  It also serves to show what the trend is.  If nearly identical properties in terms of size, amenities, and location sold for more 2 years ago, 1 year ago versus one selling 6 months ago, it shows that prices are depressed and trending downwards.   That provides a heavy incentive on a seller who wants to sell now, versus waiting fearing that the downward trend will only continue.  I suspect housing prices will continue to be soft and probably go softer.  The difficulty in traveling and entering Thailand makes purchases by foreigners less attractive.  Many Thais are financially strapped because of Covid hurting their business or employment.  I also suspect that at some time the Thai banks are going to have to move more aggressively at repossessing homes from people who are not paying on their mortgages.  Some homes in my village have been bank owned for over 5 years.  The carrying costs on those homes is detrimental to the banks and the deterioration of them makes all the homes in the area worth less. 

Thats not this market. 

2 identical houses.. One wants twice the asking price of another.. Why ?? Because, face, because they dont need to sell, etc etc etc.. 

All records here are fake.. No one declares what a property actually sells for, your declare minimum accepted value, etc.. 

[Thomas J]

15 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Thats not this market. 

2 identical houses.. One wants twice the asking price of another.. Why ?? Because, face, because they dont need to sell, etc etc etc.. 

All records here are fake.. No one declares what a property actually sells for, your declare minimum accepted value, etc.. 

As I said, I did not know if it exists here in Thailand or not.  In the USA usually a title insurance office "closes" the transaction.  There is a buy/sell agreement that has been signed by both the buyer and the seller stating the price.  Those records get filed and that is how the value of the home for annual real estate property taxes and the transfer tax amount is established.  That serves as a basis for realtors/buyers to compare "comparable" not identical.  The fact that someone does not need to sell and asks more is irrelevant.  As a buyer you are only interested in what the "typical" price homes are actually sold for, not the price someone is "hoping" for. 

[smutcakes]

On 6/7/2021 at 5:15 PM, RocketDog said:

They are quite common actually. I have three 30 year leases that run consecutively. At the beginning of each I must simply inform the owner of my intention to stay.

 

But again, engage a real estate attorney. $1500 is less than 1% of the cost of my house and I'm very glad I did it.

 

The problem with recurring 30 year leases is that the one time it has been tested in court, (all the way tp Supreme court) I believe something to do with a retail unit at Bumrumgrad Hospital the court ruled in favour of the LL and the second term was not enforceable of the Landlord did not want it.

 

Couple that with more practical problem that the LL could just propose to put up the rental to a level which you cannot accept.

[RocketDog]

38 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

The problem with recurring 30 year leases is that the one time it has been tested in court, (all the way tp Supreme court) I believe something to do with a retail unit at Bumrumgrad Hospital the court ruled in favour of the LL and the second term was not enforceable of the Landlord did not want it.

 

Couple that with more practical problem that the LL could just propose to put up the rental to a level which you cannot accept.

Good information, thanks.

 

I can't argue with any of these such replies. The hard truth is that such issues can arise in pretty much any legal situation. Contracts are just starting points. Nothing is for sure with the law.

 

My post was for informational content only, and stated what my lease says. It's certainly a common situation. If it's only been tested in court one time, that says something by itself. No?

 

What I do know is that I won't make it another 30 years, much less 90, and my GF will sell the house after my demise.

It's a moot point for me.

[smutcakes]

33 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Good information, thanks.

 

I can't argue with any of these such replies. The hard truth is that such issues can arise in pretty much any legal situation. Contracts are just starting points. Nothing is for sure with the law.

 

My post was for informational content only, and stated what my lease says. It's certainly a common situation. If it's only been tested in court one time, that says something by itself. No?

 

What I do know is that I won't make it another 30 years, much less 90, and my GF will sell the house after my demise.

It's a moot point for me.

 

I doubt i would be around in 30 years either. One other concern would be that i presume the 30 year lease is registered in the Land Department. If you croaked it say after 20 years then conceivably your wife or kids might want to sell. I would question how much interest you would get in the house if it was say only 10 years left on the lease.

 

Anyway not trying to be clever or anything just got me thinking. If you are comfortable with it then its no problem.

[RocketDog]

6 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

I doubt i would be around in 30 years either. One other concern would be that i presume the 30 year lease is registered in the Land Department. If you croaked it say after 20 years then conceivably your wife or kids might want to sell. I would question how much interest you would get in the house if it was say only 10 years left on the lease.

 

Anyway not trying to be clever or anything just got me thinking. If you are comfortable with it then its no problem.

Good thought.

In my case the land around me is mostly pineapple plantations owned by one large family. They lease small plots for cultivation to quite a number of Thai families who work it.

 

Additionally the land for my house and several around me have 90 year leases from the same owner. My house has had two previous owners, each with the same lease agreements ;one English and one German. The owners agree, in the contract, to sell my thai GF/beneficiaries the land, 1 rai, for 1.4M ฿. They are eager to lease and sell land for building as the return is much higher than pineapple.

So if a Thai buyer appears after I'm gone he could buy the house and land together.

 

My lawyer pointed out that the owner could not lease the land to somebody else if I owned the house on it. He said that's why contention on lease renewal is rare.

 

Maybe our discussion will be helpful to others.