I paid a visit to the posh new Thai Rak Thai Party headquarters when it opened on New Petchburi Road while Thaksin was in power. It was surreal, to say the least.

 

The whole length of the main hallway walls were hung with a gallery of Thaksin pictures. At the far end stood a life-sized mock-up of him surrounded by small altars decorated with flowers and candles.

 

Then there was the "Thaksin Library", choke-full with books allegedly authored by him - and on every subject imaginable. "He must've spent a fortune on ghostwriters," was my first reaction.

 

I thought this personality cult quite unsettling, reminiscent of what is practiced in North Korea or Turkmenistan.

 

Now... just imagine the Thai Rak Thai successor party, Pheua Thai, would've dedicated a "Yingluck Library". It would've brimmed with titles like:

- "My Life with Burberry Wellingtons"

- "The 101 of Daily Business Luncheons"

- "How to Head a Family Business Without Actually Knowing Anything About Business"

- "The Puppet and the Master - a Novel Centered on Montenegro"

 

Yes, she was removed by an illegal coup d'etat. Nobody is disputing that, and it is indeed a deplorable and criminal to remove a democratically elected government in such a way.

 

Yet... instead of standing up to the junta Yingluck opted to do a cowardly runner just like her brother. If she had stayed, maybe - just maybe - things would look differently today and Mr. P and his cronies would've long gone.

 

That she now deflects from her responsibility for the disastrous rice subsidy scheme only goes to show her lack of class. May I remind everybody: Though being chairwoman of the committee that oversaw and directed that subsidy program, she did NOT ONCE attend a meeting. Moreover, she KNEW that several ministers in her cabinet filled their pockets by siphoning off subsidy funds. yet she did nothing!

 

And Thaksin himself... well, he had absolutely no scruples sacrificing his own sister so he could pull the strings from behind the curtain (or rather, from abroad).     

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

She should be in jail. And her brother should be in jail. They are both wanted criminals.

Nobody should even listen to wanted criminals. 

 

First they had a judicial coup against Ying, when that wasn't enough, the real thing. That was after the coup against her brother. After coups they LET both skip, because they were scared of having a trial in Thailand. Then they stacked the legal charges against them courtesy of 'their courts'. The same ones who recently Ok'd a drug smuggler (& worse) to hold office. Legal charges, as you know, mean nothing

 

Were the Shins corrupt? Yep, but considering who & what, was before, during, and after, it's ridiculous to hold that against them. It's also ridiculous that this has been going on for twenty years.

3 hours ago, WineOh said:

I was on the streets at sala daeng in 2010 and sanam luang in 2013.

 

Where were you????

 

I think I saw you, holding a bottle in a brown paper bag right? I put some coins in your cup...

 

????

1 hour ago, LomSak27 said:

 

First they had a judicial coup against Ying, when that wasn't enough, the real thing. That was after the coup against her brother. After coups they LET both skip, because they were scared of having a trial in Thailand. Then they stacked the legal charges against them courtesy of 'their courts'. The same ones who recently Ok'd a drug smuggler (& worse) to hold office. Legal charges, as you know, mean nothing

 

Were the Shins corrupt? Yep, but considering who & what, was before, during, and after, it's ridiculous to hold that against them. It's also ridiculous that this has been going on for twenty years.

If Thaksin would not have been as corrupt and greedy as he was he would probably still be prime minister. The "first" coup happend because the courts didn't dare to unseat Thaksin. And the next coup happened because his little sister repeated all that. And at least many people in Bangkok were happy that the coups happend. I was there when people gave flowers to the soldiers in the streets.

There are many charges again Thaksin and Yingluck. And as far as I see the evidence is pretty obvious. Guilty as charged. 

I don't pretend that Prayut and his government are clean. But that is no reason to forgive the criminal who were in charge before him. All accused criminals should be in front of judges who look at the evidence. Thaksin and his little sister knew that the evidence is against them and they run away - including their ill gotten billions. 

 

1 hour ago, bermondburi said:

They didn't do a decent job for the right people. Did win the election fair and square though, just like her brother. 

 

You think elections here are fair?  Seriously?  Wow....

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There are many charges again Thaksin and Yingluck. And as far as I see the evidence is pretty obvious. Guilty as charged.  .....  All accused criminals should be in front of judges who look at the evidence

 

Uh huh

 

 

11 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You think elections here are fair?  Seriously?  Wow....

Fairer then coups methinks.????????????

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

The 30 baht heathcare scheme was a failure.  My wife's family gave up on it years ago. 

 

Too bad Thailand can't find better leaders.  The scourge of Thailand....corruption.

The 30 Baht/gold card/"whatever it is called now" healthcare scheme is popular and far from a failure. Yes, there are long queues, but people get the treatment they need. People are getting treatment that prior to this scheme they could not afford. Perhaps, your wife's family are reasonably well off such that they can afford private healthcare, which is definitely more convenient. Good for them, but their experience does not render the scheme a failure. I know many people who avail themselves of this scheme. 

5 minutes ago, bermondburi said:

Fairer then coups methinks.????????????

For sure.  But far from free and fair.  Dodgy at best.

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

The 30 Baht/gold card/"whatever it is called now" healthcare scheme is popular and far from a failure. Yes, there are long queues, but people get the treatment they need. People are getting treatment that prior to this scheme they could not afford. Perhaps, your wife's family are reasonably well off such that they can afford private healthcare, which is definitely more convenient. Good for them, but their experience does not render the scheme a failure. I know many people who avail themselves of this scheme. 

My brother in law was recently sick.  Went to the local hospital but was told he was from another province and would have to go there for help.  He was SICK!  They wanted some crazy money to transport him by ambulance.

 

My MIL would get up at 4am to be first in line to see the doc, taking a bus some 90 minutes to get to the hospital.  Guess what?  Many days, the doc never showed up.

 

In our experience, it's a failure. 

Hypothetically if the government revert back to the 1997 constitution and hold an election, Thaksin or Yingluck will still win. Reasons enough for the deep state to re-write the constitution and stacked them high to steal the election and keep the Shins far away from Thailand. 

Never ever did thailand prosper as good as in the years of the Yingluk

 

3 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Hasn't bozo done a lot of rice scheme payouts himself?

This cluster<deleted> of a government has gone overboard with populist schemes. Absolute hypocrites. They make Thaksin look like an absolute beginner in this regard.  

1 hour ago, Misterwhisper said:

I paid a visit to the posh new Thai Rak Thai Party headquarters when it opened on New Petchburi Road while Thaksin was in power. It was surreal, to say the least.

 

The whole length of the main hallway walls were hung with a gallery of Thaksin pictures. At the far end stood a life-sized mock-up of him surrounded by small altars decorated with flowers and candles.

 

Then there was the "Thaksin Library", choke-full with books allegedly authored by him - and on every subject imaginable. "He must've spent a fortune on ghostwriters," was my first reaction.

 

I thought this personality cult quite unsettling, reminiscent of what is practiced in North Korea or Turkmenistan.

 

Now... just imagine the Thai Rak Thai successor party, Pheua Thai, would've dedicated a "Yingluck Library". It would've brimmed with titles like:

- "My Life with Burberry Wellingtons"

- "The 101 of Daily Business Luncheons"

- "How to Head a Family Business Without Actually Knowing Anything About Business"

- "The Puppet and the Master - a Novel Centered on Montenegro"

 

Yes, she was removed by an illegal coup d'etat. Nobody is disputing that, and it is indeed a deplorable and criminal to remove a democratically elected government in such a way.

 

Yet... instead of standing up to the junta Yingluck opted to do a cowardly runner just like her brother. If she had stayed, maybe - just maybe - things would look differently today and Mr. P and his cronies would've long gone.

 

That she now deflects from her responsibility for the disastrous rice subsidy scheme only goes to show her lack of class. May I remind everybody: Though being chairwoman of the committee that oversaw and directed that subsidy program, she did NOT ONCE attend a meeting. Moreover, she KNEW that several ministers in her cabinet filled their pockets by siphoning off subsidy funds. yet she did nothing!

 

And Thaksin himself... well, he had absolutely no scruples sacrificing his own sister so he could pull the strings from behind the curtain (or rather, from abroad).     

 

 

So easy to speak from an ivory tower.

If you understood how things worked in this country; perhaps you would not be so quick to post.

You need to keep the factions onside. That is how it works. 

Look at the defence budget. For what? A moment of thought and you should be able to work it out.

Thailand is not Finland.  In order to get cooperation to get things done, you need to grease a few palms.

Look at Bhumjaithai. What are their actual policies? 

So stop blaming a single person as if she was responsible for all. There is horse trading in government; that is how it works.

Disingenuous to call her a criminal. You try running things and you will find that you need to compromise to get things done.

The problem was that the other side didn't like the rebalancing. So now they have the upper hand again.

Calling one side criminal doesn't give the other side legitimacy.  

Remember the words uttered by this lot...that they would get rid of the ma fia and corruption. Those very same guys who they claimed were ma fia are now in the government. That is how it works. They need to get their end or the whole thing breaks down.

Yingluck had to work with the same people. So what do you expect?

 

I prefer to just stay out of it.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

My brother in law was recently sick.  Went to the local hospital but was told he was from another province and would have to go there for help.  He was SICK!  They wanted some crazy money to transport him by ambulance.

 

My MIL would get up at 4am to be first in line to see the doc, taking a bus some 90 minutes to get to the hospital.  Guess what?  Many days, the doc never showed up.

 

In our experience, it's a failure. 

The scheme is tied to your House Registration. Hence, in order to seek free treatment he would have needed to go to the hospital serving his house registration area. Most gov't hospitals will still treat people outside their area subject to payment.  You can then transfer to your allocated hospital. 

 

When I move upcountry, I will move my house registration to the place where I live to benefit from the scheme.     

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

This cluster<deleted> of a government has gone overboard with populist schemes. Absolute hypocrites. They make Thaksin look like an absolute beginner in this regard.  

That is my take on it as well. Bozo and his clowns have literally sunk Thailand into the trillions and climbing with no stop in sight. 

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

That Wiki link lays things out quite well.  Seems some here only look at the good side of this family, not the reality of their dodgy deeds.  Nor, the other issues we can't discuss here. 

 

This was the issue that brought him down.  But there were lots of other issues also.  He could have stayed and fought this, and probably won.  But he did like so many other politicians here...went on the run.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/oct/21/thaksin-thailand-corruption

Thailand's former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was today sentenced to two years' imprisonment in absentia over a corrupt land deal.

In a ruling that made him the first Thai politician to be convicted of corruption committed while prime minister, Thaksin was found to have violated conflict of interest rules in helping his wife buy land from a state agency at a reduced price.

If you read the Wikipedia page about it (you seem to trust wikipedia), you would know it is not an accurate account. He did not "help" as it was a bid. Basically the judges said: the law says there's  no conflict of interest but we decide there is.

50 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

For sure.  But far from free and fair.  Dodgy at best.

 

And every election apart from those won by Thaksin and his sister was completely fair was it. 

 

Anyways, anyone who has been here a while knows that it is in the local elections that the real corruption is. The general elections not so much.

47 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

My brother in law was recently sick.  Went to the local hospital but was told he was from another province and would have to go there for help.  He was SICK!  They wanted some crazy money to transport him by ambulance.

 

My MIL would get up at 4am to be first in line to see the doc, taking a bus some 90 minutes to get to the hospital.  Guess what?  Many days, the doc never showed up.

 

In our experience, it's a failure. 

 

It's tied to your house registration. Officially where he went was not his local hospital. Understand the system before you criticise it. 

52 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

For sure.  But far from free and fair.  Dodgy at best.

Elections are only dodgy when they produce a result you don't like. 

 

On one hand coup supporters here denigrate the Thai electorate and the legitimacy of elections saying they are corrupt etc. and on the other expect us to accept the legitimacy of Thai courts controlled by military juntas handing down verdicts to democratically elected politicians ousted in coups. 

 

Totally hypocritical and most of them don't even know the reasons Thaksin was actually removed from power and are still repeating nonsense yellow shirt propaganda from 2005 onwards. 

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Again, nothing like Thaksin's case.  And Thanathorn isn't in jail.  But we'll see, the EC could still take up the case.

 

Not to mention his case was decided while the military was in charge.  I do agree it'd be hard to get a fair trial now for something like this.   But when Thaksin was charged, his party was in power.

I could be wrong, but believe you are mistaken, he was charged in absentee or at least from memory a few cases. 

7 hours ago, tonray said:

Welcome to another episode of "Privileged Billionaire Mud-Slingers"....."watch as out of touch billionaires swap charges of blame while people lose their jobs and futures" Thursday at 8 on Mono 29

I can not understand how ungrateful she can be when she was allowed to escape from Thailand.

6 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Come on.  Do some research on why they were booted out.  It was done via the legal system.  So yes, he was a threat to the establishment here.  Most criminals like this are.

oh look, it's the sinovac guy ????

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It wasn't a gun.  It was rulings by the courts putting them in jail.

 

Guns are always pointed at Thai politicians.  Remember Sondhi?

Are the courts independent here?  Generally people on the forum know how the Thai government currently operates.  Trying to trick a trickster

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Again, nothing like Thaksin's case.  And Thanathorn isn't in jail.  But we'll see, the EC could still take up the case.

 

Not to mention his case was decided while the military was in charge.  I do agree it'd be hard to get a fair trial now for something like this.   But when Thaksin was charged, his party was in power.

Didn't you notice that opponents to the yellow establishment are nearly always convicted, whatever the colour of the government, and people on the yellow side never convicted or endlessly on bail? Under they <deleted> off someone at the top level (you can check on Wikipedia who Sondhi <deleted> off at the highest council).

 

If you cared to inform yourself instead of parroting yellow propaganda you would know that the judiciary and the semi-judiciary are not obeying the government, as they are not appointed by governments (unless It's a military Junta) and their career is not decided by the government. They obey the network which appointed them (and to which they also belong).

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And at least many people in Bangkok were happy that the coups happend. I was there when people gave flowers to the soldiers in the streets

Lol! People were so happy to get rid of the Shins that the Junta prevented them from electing their government, for fear they would elect the same party again (the party of the people they did not like)! ????

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not sure Thaksin or Yingluck caused anyone to lose their job or their future.

The country seemed to be doing well when they were in charge.

It seems that nobody has mentioned the topic of the OP: rice-pledging scheme.

Knowing what that was, how we can read the quote above?

 

For the ones who want to know, in short: Thaksin, and Yingluck later, had made promises to poor farmers -mainly in the Isaan - we will buy your rice for double price as before, just vote for us. When they finally bought the rice they paid by promising notes, not by money. For that time of waiting on money many farmers got bankrupt, heavily indebted, many tragedies in villages. 

 

The rice had been stored in new huge warehouses built up by state money, owned by party friends.  Keeping the rice and waiting that the world prices will soar.  In the meantime, other world players jumped on bandwagon, happy that no Thai competition. And what had happened with the rice? Half of it rotten in cheaply built warehouses, sold later for a kiss.

 

And what the clever general did when Yingluck was out ? Exchanged immediately the promising notes for money...

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not sure Thaksin or Yingluck caused anyone to lose their job or their future.

The country seemed to be doing well when they were in charge.

Get out of my head ! Thailand, post 2014 isn't Thailand! 

Ya  can't even talk about the cons for CS ,without fear of...

 

"The country seemed to be doing well when they were in charge"

 

11 minutes ago, Saanim said:

For the ones who want to know, in short: Thaksin, and Yingluck later, had made promises to poor farmers -mainly in the Isaan - we will buy your rice for double price as before, just vote for us.

Every democratic government in the world pledges money for it's citizens in return for votes.

Very few make good on their promises though.

 

Thaksin and Yingluck were some of the very few politicians to try and keep their promises.

For the past 5 years my family rice farm hasn't been planted, under Prayut, not worth the effort.

Please use discretion in your references to the government.  Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

 

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

2 minutes ago, Saanim said:

It seems that nobody has mentioned the topic of the OP: rice-pledging scheme.

Knowing what that was, how we can read the quote above?

 

For the ones who want to know, in short: Thaksin, and Yingluck later, had made promises to poor farmers -mainly in the Isaan - we will buy your rice for double price as before, just vote for us. When they finally bought the rice they paid by promising notes, not by money. For that time of waiting on money many farmers got bankrupt, heavily indebted, many tragedies in villages. 

 

The rice had been stored in new huge warehouses built up by state money, owned by party friends.  Keeping the rice and waiting that the world prices will soar.  In the meantime, other world players jumped on bandwagon, happy that no Thai competition. And what had happened with the rice? Half of it rotten in cheaply built warehouses, sold later for a kiss.

 

And what the clever general did when Yingluck was out ? Exchanged immediately the promising notes for money...

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

It seems you forgot to mention a few details:

- she was refused a loan by the BAAC to pay farmers, on the pretext that it was only a caretaker government,

- and of course the yellow network blocked elections so she remained endlessly in caretaker mode

- then she succeeded in getting another loan from a bank,

- however, Suthep and the yellow network called for boycotting the bank because of the loan, and the bank had to retrieve it, (of course, after that, Suthep called for farmers to join his protests because they hadn't been paid ????)

- suddenly, right after the coup, the BAAC lent the money to the Junta in order to pay farmers.

 

I'm not saying the rice scheme was successful, but the yellow network made everything they could to make sure farmers would not be paid.