New inverter a/c daikin not very cool...I'm baffled

[ExpatOilWorker]

The OP mentioned she had two AC unit replaced at the same time. Could they by accident have swapped the outdoor compressor units?

A miss match of compressor units will certainly result in under-preforming cooling.

[Sheryl]

40 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

Daikin has branches in most major cities

 

I don't live in a major city. I'm out in the sticks.

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The OP mentioned she had two AC unit replaced at the same time. Could they by accident have swapped the outdoor compressor units?

A miss match of compressor units will certainly result in under-preforming cooling.

 

Any easy way to check this?  The 2 are of very different size, one 12k one 24k BTU

[Susco]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't live in a major city. I'm out in the sticks.

 

I guess you live closer to Chiang Mai than Bangkok, not?

 

Sorry for being trying to be helpful

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

Inverters run at various rates or levels of compressor use. It saves on electricity and efficiency but does take much longer to reach desired temp as a result since they typically dont run at 100% all the time. As a result the old school ac produces cold air constantly faster at the same output temp until the desired temp is reached while Inverters function in a way that the temp output varies thru out the cycle of reaching the desired temp which is more economical  but much slower to reach desired temp, especially in overly hot periods or spaces. Big trade off as a result.

 

 

 

the problem is, it never reached the desired temp. Slower I could live with, but this just never gets there. It gets cooler than with no a/c, but not as cool as desired even at maximum setting.

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Any easy way to check this?  The 2 are of very different size, one 12k one 24k BTU

 

The 24k BTU should be way bigger than the 12K unit, so unlikely this is your problem, but look for the data sheet at the compressor unit.

 

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, Susco said:

 

I guess you live closer to Chiang Mai than Bangkok, not?

 

Sorry for being trying to be helpful

Not anywhere near CM. .Bangkok is the closest city to where I am. But still a good 3 hour drive.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

I don't go on Thaivisa often so I never saw her post or I would have commented on the pros and cons    not sure why you say it's suspicious    inverters are designed for primarily for energy efficiency and the impact is on the cooling operation 

 

So are you saying it is normal for an invertor unit to not get things very cool?

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

Sheryl, which model did you get as there are more than 1 model of inverter ac and they run differently as 1 type is much more efficient in the power consumption which is a direct result of how they run the compressor based on demand which could be part of the issue your seeing 

FTKF12UV2S

FTKF24UV2S

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

The 24k BTU should be way bigger than the 12K unit, so unlikely this is your problem, but look for the data sheet at the compressor unit.

 

OK, checked. Not the problem.

 

as to gas as others mentioned - called them back to top it off, did not help.

[Sheryl]

45 minutes ago, impulse said:

Put a thermometer on the outlet air and note the change in temperature between the inlet and the outlet.  There's a specification.  (someone else will have to chime in with the spec for an inverter wall unit...  Stuck in Texas, we're all on central air- yuck.)

 

An undersized unit will blow less air, but the DeltaT from inlet to outlet should still hold up.  It just takes longer to circulate enough of the cooler air.

 

Being a new install, I suspect the refrigerant is low.

Unfortunately the only thermometers on hand are the human type and they don't go below 35C.

 

If I had to guess I would say they cool things down to about 25-28C (on maximum setting i.e. set for 16C). Definitley never below 25C, no matter how low set or on for how long, and maybe not below 26-27. In the living room, never cool enough to be able to exercise comfortably; in the bedroom never cool enough to use the comforter spread. but cool enough to sleep with only a sheet on (that is with added help from a fan directly on me).

 

[zoolander]

We bought a Daikin inverter last month from Dohome. It did not cool and we exchanged it with a Haier inverter which works much better. It was a real battle to exchange the units with Dohome but eventually it was done foc.

 

Daikin is a good brand I don't know what's happening to them

[Sheryl]

42 minutes ago, zoolander said:

We bought a Daikin inverter last month from Dohome. It did not cool and we exchanged it with a Haier inverter which works much better. It was a real battle to exchange the units with Dohome but eventually it was done foc.

 

Daikin is a good brand I don't know what's happening to them

 

good to know as if I want to switch I should probably do so soon.

 

In general I have a bad impression of Haier brand anything. Can otheres suggest other inverter brands (non-Daikin) that really get things cold? I will try with the Daikin company tomorrow but that's 2 people now reporting same experience...

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Noticed my air con seemingly struggling to cool the bedroom a few days ago, temperature lowered made no difference and the air flow seemed weak, suspecting it just needed cleaning called our regular guy.

He took the cover off the inside unit and straight away spotted the problem, using dish soap he highlighted a pinhole leak ( an oily substance inside the unit alerted him to the exact spot ).

A quick bit of welding and 1800 baht later, good as new , for now anyway ????.

 

Your “ good discount “ unit could have been a returned unit with a problem,  boxed and sold cheaper , maybe has a leak.

 

Haier , 4 years old, otherwise has been very good and can get icy cold if necessary although we usually run at 27c  nighttime.

Our fixit guy said he has fixed plenty of this problem but first time on a Haier , for what it’s worth .

[chickenslegs]

23 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

FTKF12UV2S

FTKF24UV2S

I just googled the FTKF24UV2S ...

https://www.daikin.co.th/en/product/smile-lite-inverter-ftkf-uv2s/

 

It's worth reading the whole spec and comments, but this one seems especially relevant:-

 

Quote

Powerful mode: Quick cooling as desired

Simply press the Powerful Mode button and the fan rate will increase beyond the highest level by 50 revolutions per minute. The temperature will drop to 16 degrees Celsius in 20 minutes, allowing you to quickly become comfortable in the cooling temperature. Afterwards, the temperature will automatically return to the set value and remain there at a controlled level for consistent cooling.

There is also mention of a specific coolant for these models. Is it possible that the incorrect coolant has been used?

 

I think you should bypass the dealer and complain directly to Daikin. Your units are definitely not performing correctly and the dealer hasn't fixed the problem.

[Sheryl]

12 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

I just googled the FTKF24UV2S ...

https://www.daikin.co.th/en/product/smile-lite-inverter-ftkf-uv2s/

 

It's worth reading the whole spec and comments, but this one seems especially relevant:-

 

There is also mention of a specific coolant for these models. Is it possible that the incorrect coolant has been used?

 

I think you should bypass the dealer and complain directly to Daikin. Your units are definitely not performing correctly and the dealer hasn't fixed the problem.

Yep, on the agenda for tomorrow. Thanks. I will ask specifically about the coolant, god only knows what they used.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

So are you saying it is normal for an invertor unit to not get things very cool?

No I'm saying inverters are made to run more efficient energy wise so theyuse variable speed compressors and fans. It should still cool suffiecntly but may be a bit slower to reach your desired temp and the output temp coming out of the units will not be quite as cold at start up but should get colder the longer it operates. It sounds like something isn't right with these units if it doesn't get to your desired temp as long as your not trying to get down extremely low temps.  Since it both units and 2 different models its more suspicious. I would be looking at testing them by a qualified tech. Both to confirm they were installed properly and for the operation of them and specifically the refrigerant. They may not have properly pulled a vacuum on the units before they filled them with refrigerant. That would cause this problem and if the techs didn't know how to do it correctly that would explain both units not operating properly

Edited June 23, 2021 by Dan O

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

They need insulated rooms from what a lot of reading I have done and I've read about American air-con engineers, so if your room is not insulated they can be a problem only in the fact the lecky bills won't be that much cheaper.

This is incorrect information, the insulation or lack of it is irrelevant between an inverter and a non inverter.
 

The time when you will not save is if you replace an undersized non inverter with an undersized inverter. 

4 hours ago, Dan O said:

Inverters function in a way that the temp output varies thru out the cycle of reaching the desired temp which is more economical  but much slower to reach desired temp, especially in overly hot periods or spaces. Big trade off as a result.

 

If that’s the way your inverter AC functions it is not normal. Our Mitsubishi inverters run at full speed until they get to, or almost to, the set point then slow down. 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

So are you saying it is normal for an invertor unit to not get things very cool?

It is not normal. 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

OK, checked. Not the problem.

 

as to gas as others mentioned - called them back to top it off, did not help.

Too much refrigerant is as bad as too little, your symptoms could well be caused by an overcharged system. There is a Goldilocks amount if you either over or under fill you will have problems, both will reduce cooling, an underfill will often cause ice to form, I’m not sure of the symptoms of over filling but lack of cooling is definitely one. 
 

unfortunately the way to check for the correct fill is to recover the complete charge then reload the correct weight of refrigerant. You will be able to see if that’s what is done as a vacuum pump will be used. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by sometimewoodworker

[Dan O]

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

This is incorrect information, the insulation or lack of it is irrelevant between an inverter and a non inverter.
 

The time when you will not save is if you replace an undersized non inverter with an undersized inverter. 

If that’s the way your inverter AC functions it is not normal. Our Mitsubishi inverters run at full speed until they get to, or almost to, the set point then slow down. 

That is how inverter ac work. The vary the compress operation rather than just on and off at 100% like older "regular" ac units    google inverter ac unit operation and you'll see. Different brands handle their operation slightly based on their model of operation concept but the base operation function concept is the same

Edited June 23, 2021 by Dan O

[Rampant Rabbit]

Without a  thermometer check words  like  , cool  cold  colder are meaningless.

[tonray]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

So are you saying it is normal for an invertor unit to not get things very cool?

No it's not normal. We have three inverter units (Electrolux) and on most days 27 to 26 will cause the GF to grab a blanket. Something is not right. When hotter outside, opposite of what one mught believe, you will use the higher setting as the  heat will cause the compressor to run more often, keeping it cooler. After the sun goes down, then one can turn it down one or two degrees to make sure the compressor kicks in.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

That is how inverter ac work. The vary the compress operation rather than just on and off at 100% like older "regular" ac units 

Of course they do!!! However they also run at full power when bringing the room temperature down. 
 

The difference is that when at the set point they slow down rather than the on off cycle of a conventional AC. 
 

when the room is significantly above the set point there is NO difference in operation between an inverter and a non inverter, they both run flat out. 

[Dan O]

17 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Of course they do!!! However they also run at full power when bringing the room temperature down. 
 

The difference is that when at the set point they slow down rather than the on off cycle of a conventional AC. 
 

when the room is significantly above the set point there is NO difference in operation between an inverter and a non inverter, they both run flat out. 

I don't think you do understand how they work. Yes they will run at 100 % but most all brands do not on start up, they cycle up to full compression over a short period and then depending on demand adjust to accommodate the need. Each mfr has there own sequence of operation but they are all basically the same. You would not know the compressor is not running at 100 % during that period as there is nothing to tell you that is occuring. Since you feel you know how they work then it doesn't really matter now does it? If you choose to learn a bit more about how they operate and why then google it or read the manual that came with you unit, 

[rwill]

Did you see them install it?

Did they put the new lines under a vacuum?  All the air has to be removed from the system or you will have problems.  (some technicians will just run refrigerant through the lines with one valve open until they think they have flushed all the air out.)

Did they check for refrigerant leaks?  (I have yet to see any air person here that has an electronic leak detector, always rely on the old soapy water)

Edited June 24, 2021 by rwill

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, rwill said:

Did you see them install it?

Did they put the new lines under a vacuum?  All the air has to be removed from the system or you will have problems.

Did they check for refrigerant leaks?  (I have yet to see any air person here that has an electronic leak detector, always rely on the old soapy water)

Wouldn't the pressure gauges tell you if there is a leak ? Anytime I have had a system installed or repaired they run the system with the gauges attached and monitor it for 15 mins. 

Isn't that the whole idea of the gauges, to check the correct amount of gas, not loosing gas etc

[bankruatsteve]

The remote should have a "Powerful" button.  Try that.  It should put the unit on maximum cool with maximum fan.  It will go back to whatever setting it had after about 30 min.  If Powerful setting still lame, there is a good chance "Chang" didn't set it up properly.

[Sophon]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yep, on the agenda for tomorrow. Thanks. I will ask specifically about the coolant, god only knows what they used.

 

So, the A/C is still not cooling effectively when you press the "powerful mode" button?

[bankruatsteve]

We recently had Daikin authorized service come up from KK (about a 3 hour drive).  Problem was gecko shorted control board but they did thorough job checking EVERYTHING.  The service call was B700 (to my recall) but worth it to have techs who know what they are doing.  Maybe warranty will cut costs but worth a check with the Daikin call center in Bangkok.