Exercise is everything

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, BigStar said:

Problem here is that without exercise, the far greater probability of dying from a fall owing to your weak bones, muscles, and impaired balance may derail your plan for greater longevity via docs, meds, and hsps. 

 

Falls are the leading cause of injury-related death among adults age 65 and older, and the age-adjusted fall death rate is increasing.

     --https://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/falls/data/deaths-from-falls.html

 

Seniors who exercise (those miserable, stressed out souls) should add in some mobility training as well.

Hmmmmm. Given I spent an entire year doing zero exercise while living in a Chiang Mai hotel, but have noticed no difference in my bones, muscles or balance I suspect that your advice only applies to some, but not all.

Having returned to home country I have resumed my previous active lifestyle, with no ill effects from shoveling large quantities of dirt and other such farm activity.

I'm not as fit as I was 50 years ago, but that's to be expected.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. There is IMO absolutely no need to "exercise and diet" to be healthy. One need only have an active lifestyle and not eat bad food or to excess.

But that's exercise and dieting nowadays. I dunno why the metabolically unhealthy 88% aren't paying the least attention to your opinion, esp. as they learn what a good example you present. 

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My ancestors were not unhealthy or obese and they never heard of a "gym" or "dieting". Of course they didn't eat toxic so called food from supermarkets, and didn't spend all day on a computer.

I suspect don't know all that many of our ancestors, but a few of us don't have your ancestors anyway.

 

Previously you've failed to tell me whether I have the good longevity genes or not. I'll hedge my bets, thank you.

 

Oh! Well, of course they didn't. So the modern analogue would be--diet and exercise, LOL.

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. Given I spent an entire year doing zero exercise while living in a Chiang Mai hotel, but have noticed no difference in my bones, muscles or balance I suspect that your advice only applies to some, but not all.

Just eating and working from age 30-45 I have to admit to impaired balance when I did go for a walk on the moors (Bodmin), and a total shock after falling over. Took me a week to recover from the fall.

 

At age 54-62 after trail running and cycling for the first year, I was almost impervious to falls, sprains and impact damage (beyond skin deep). A twisted ankle took minutes to recover, rather than a week.

 

Not sure it extended my life at all, but it certainly improved my bone density, muscles and back support. The back pains I suffered all my middle age, are completely gone. 

[BigStar]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. Given I spent an entire year doing zero exercise while living in a Chiang Mai hotel, but have noticed no difference in my bones, muscles or balance I suspect that your advice only applies to some, but not all.

And the before and after blood work and scans all confirmed what you "didn't notice." Most people who do exercise will notice a bit of degeneration by the end of one month of doing nothing, however. Maybe they have something to notice?

 

Assuming you didn't just forget--you know your memory--or had quaffed a few before the extensive self-assessments, it's just more really compelling evidence that you lucked out with the good genes, man, just like you think you did. No need for any exercise for you, sit in the recliner all day as you wish or get yourself a turtle to walk like @swissie. We miserable, stressed out sods following healthy lifestyles can only envy.

 

And you also don't need to diet, 'cause your ancestors didn't. So that's been working out really great. Enjoy that good life with your meds, man. Meds? WOT?

 

[BE88]

????

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

Are we looking at the same cave drawing? That lion would have ate him even sooner had he not invented the running.

 

Muhhmmm I don't see any lions in sight now apart my wife angry all the time, bad time for human evolution

 

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, BE88 said:

...... apart my wife angry all the time ........

Mine too ....... and my last Thai one ........ feature of Thai women as far as I can see.

Or maybe it's just the effect I have on them.

I've got used to angry sex (Thai lovers) ........ better than no sex (Brit wife).

[BE88]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Mine too ....... and my last Thai one ........ feature of Thai women as far as I can see.

Or maybe it's just the effect I have on them.

I've got used to angry sex (Thai lovers) ........ better than no sex (Brit wife).

 

I think we are not alone think to frigid European ex wife

 

[VocalNeal]

18 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

Is that the recommended minimum? 

 

Don't think so but it is a good start. Some people walk 10kms per day but that is a lot of time for an average person to dedicate to simply walking.

[pgrahmm]

4 hours ago, BigStar said:

Are we looking at the same cave drawing? That lion would have ate him even sooner had he not invented the running.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

And you also don't need to diet, 'cause your ancestors didn't.

Now you are just making things up. I never said anything of the sort. What I DID say was that because they didn't eat toxic food from a supermarket they didn't suffer obesity and such other maladies caused by eating a load of chemicals and sugar. I have given up sugar almost entirely and have lost 8 kg and 3 inches without going on a "diet". Unfortunately, I still have to buy food from a supermarket, so still get sugar from the food I eat, but no where near as much as I used to consume daily. I'd have about 15 teaspoons of sugar in tea and coffee every day, but replaced by substitutes now, plus sugary snacks. The only thing that's changed is no sugar, so that has to be what put the weight on.

 

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

it's just more really compelling evidence that you lucked out with the good genes, man,

5555555555555555555555

Hardly. I've had more than my share of diseases.

If I credit anything, it's that I never smoked.

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

No need for any exercise for you, sit in the recliner all day as you wish

LOL. The year in the hotel was not my normal lifestyle. I do a lot of physical work, and always have. I never worked in an office, and physical exertion was always part of my occupations.

 

A friend of mine died a while back. He wasn't obese, and had no apparent medical problems, but died far younger than I. I put it down to his occupation which was selling houses, and his sport was lawn bowls, ergo a life with no physical exertion to speak of.

 

The only point I've attempted to make is that lifestyle is more important than exercise per se, and what we eat is more important than "dieting".

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/5/2021 at 1:46 AM, pgrahmm said:

I would add "enjoyable" to that. I loved sugar, and it's tempting to start eating it again. A sugar devoid diet is boring.

However, not wanting to go blind from diabetes is a great incentive to give it up.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, BigStar said:

I can't argue with religious or spiritual beliefs, sorry. Previously I've quoted some science for you, which of course you ignored. I think we can toss opinions from the chronically ill comforting themselves with invocations to voodoo genetics.

 

I've previously noted this as the standard recommendation of our TVF Life Coaches.

 

I have no idea why I would want to live longer in this <deleted> world. Bring it on.

[Tanomazu]

You just don't want to be obese. It's being fat that is the risk to health. In Japan we eat very healthy, fish, vegetables, in moderation, obesity is rare. So are most of the diseases associated with obesity.

 

You can stay healthy by eating moderately. Preferably a Japanese diet, the healthiest in the world.

[KannikaP]

Just now, Tanomazu said:

You just don't want to be obese. It's being fat that is the risk to health. In Japan we eat very healthy, fish, vegetables, in moderation, obesity is rare. So are most of the diseases associated with obesity.

 

You can stay healthy by eating moderately. Preferably a Japanese diet, the healthiest in the world.

But do not forget your KFC for Christmas Dinner.   LOL

[Tanomazu]

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

But do not forget your KFC for Christmas Dinner.   LOL

 

If you heat healthy most of the year, you can have the odd cheat day. It's okay. The key is not to eat like in the West, creamy cakes, bacon, deep-fried foods and excessive meat, sandwich meat for breakfast. Then you become obese and end up with all the illness that obesity brings.

[BigStar]

15 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

You just don't want to be obese. It's being fat that is the risk to health. In Japan we eat very healthy, fish, vegetables, in moderation, obesity is rare. So are most of the diseases associated with obesity.

 

You can stay healthy by eating moderately. Preferably a Japanese diet, the healthiest in the world.

At a healthy weight, true, though the answer to the question of how Japanese in general stay so healthy is a bit more complex. This does, however, contribute to our topic, "Let's find excuses for not exercising."

 

However, the bad news is that part of the answer is that Japanese also get a surprising amount of exercise relative to our slackers.

 

Japanese adults walk an average of 6500 steps a day, with male adults in their 20s to 50s walking nearly 8000 steps a day on average, and women in their 20s to 50s about 7000 steps. Okinawans in particular are well-known for their walking culture, being especially mindful about incorporating movement in their daily lifestyle. Nagano, a rural prefecture in Japan, was able to flip their high stroke rate by incorporating over 100 walking routes, and now their citizens enjoy the highest rates of longevity in the country.

     --How Japanese People Stay Fit for Life, Without Ever Visiting a Gym

 

Note that greater longevity correlated with additional exercise. WOT?

 

People don’t have time for planned, structured exercise at the gym, so they make sure to incorporate it into their day. Usually this happens incidentally since long commutes to work or school on foot, bike or train are common. It’s also little things, like making frequent trips to the grocers instead of doing one big weekly shop, that help the Japanese to stay slim.

     --How to Stay in Shape the Japanese Way

[Tanomazu]

3 hours ago, BigStar said:

At a healthy weight, true, though the answer to the question of how Japanese in general stay so healthy is a bit more complex. This does, however, contribute to our topic, "Let's find excuses for not exercising."

 

However, the bad news is that part of the answer is that Japanese also get a surprising amount of exercise relative to our slackers.

 

Japanese adults walk an average of 6500 steps a day, with male adults in their 20s to 50s walking nearly 8000 steps a day on average, and women in their 20s to 50s about 7000 steps. Okinawans in particular are well-known for their walking culture, being especially mindful about incorporating movement in their daily lifestyle. Nagano, a rural prefecture in Japan, was able to flip their high stroke rate by incorporating over 100 walking routes, and now their citizens enjoy the highest rates of longevity in the country.

     --How Japanese People Stay Fit for Life, Without Ever Visiting a Gym

 

Note that greater longevity correlated with additional exercise. WOT?

 

People don’t have time for planned, structured exercise at the gym, so they make sure to incorporate it into their day. Usually this happens incidentally since long commutes to work or school on foot, bike or train are common. It’s also little things, like making frequent trips to the grocers instead of doing one big weekly shop, that help the Japanese to stay slim.

     --How to Stay in Shape the Japanese Way

 

Walking 8000 steps is of course a good thing. But a lot of people in the West walk 10,000 steps, but still obese. So I think diet is much more important. What do we see with diet in Japan, small portion, a lot of fish, cooked rice, not fried potato, not cream cakes, not sandwich meat for breakfast, a lot of vegetable and fibre.

 

Japan has the lowest coronary heart disease (CHD) mortality rate in the world. But low rate of gym membership. It's diet.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167527318341482

 

Still, now Japanese getting fatter, thanks to bad influence from the West. So hopefully not too many Hamburgers, or we also have to join gyms so much.

 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, BigStar said:

At a healthy weight, true, though the answer to the question of how Japanese in general stay so healthy is a bit more complex. This does, however, contribute to our topic, "Let's find excuses for not exercising."

Disagree,

The Japanese eat less processed food.

Processed food with additives, preservatives, fungicides, coloring, flavoring is the devil.

Eat food you cooked yourself at home, and you won't get fat.

Chips aren't a problem if you peeled, cut and fried the chips yourself.

Hamburgers aren't a problem if you made the patties and bread yourself.

 

But buy the processed products from McD and you'll pile on the pounds.

[BigStar]

35 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Disagree,

The Japanese eat less processed food.

Processed food with additives, preservatives, fungicides, coloring, flavoring is the devil.

Eat food you cooked yourself at home, and you won't get fat.

Chips aren't a problem if you peeled, cut and fried the chips yourself.

I understand the need to enjoy disagreeing, but I don't see what you're disagreeing with. You agree Japanese eat less processed food. They do. But portion size and selection is also a critical part of it, as noted. Go look it up. The flaw in your argument is that people cook at home alright but then they merely pig out at home, usually on sweet, starchy foods they cooked at home. The food industry assures us that sugar is natural, BTW. The famous Twinkie "proof" was actually sponsored by Coke. ????

 

The topic isn't about diet, which why I attempted to get back to it. Our Nutritionists have previously debunked the notion of dieting and advanced the brilliant TVF Bedsit Paradigm in Throwing caution to the wind and b u g g e r the diet – How about you . It really doesn't need regurgitation. It will stand as the definitive study taught in universities everywhere.

 

Currently, we're working on the complementary b.u.g.g.e.r the exercise to ensure we needn't walk far to reach the pies and pastries and the pharma/medical establishment remains healthy, financially speaking.

 

So let's do get back to the exercise findings in TVF Science of Longevity. I'm seeing some overlap with the dieting findings, like the What, me worry? Gene Principle.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, BigStar said:

The flaw in your argument is that people cook at home alright but then they merely pig out at home, usually on sweet, starchy foods they cooked at home.

Nah, fatties are naturally lazy, they don't cook their own food, but they may warm up a few ready meals at home.

[BigStar]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Nah, fatties are naturally lazy, they don't cook their own food, but they may warm up a few ready meals at home.

Well, some are and some aren't. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Some can't afford the ready meals. If you're serious about a healthy diet then of course you do a lot of your own cooking--in the West. Not many are, however.

 

The notion that everyone who cooks at home remains slim and healthy is utterly absurd. You may think so if you wish.  Can we get back on topic?

[Tanomazu]

You are both wrong.

 

If you cook poutine or Bacon pies at home you still get fat. Simple more calories input than burnt calculation.

 

If you exercise and eat biscuits, cakes, chocolate, crisps and bacon you still get fat.

 

Hope this helps both of you.

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

You are both wrong.

If you cook poutine or Bacon pies at home you still get fat. Simple more calories input than burnt calculation.

If you exercise and eat biscuits, cakes, chocolate, crisps and bacon you still get fat.

Hope this helps both of you.

You're making a fairly basic mistake of thinking all food you eat is digested.

Excess unprocessed meat and veg tends to get pooped out undigested.

Excess processed foods (cakes, biscuits, factory manufactured pies) are completely digested.

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Walking 8000 steps is of course a good thing. But a lot of people in the West walk 10,000 steps, but still obese. So I think diet is much more important. What do we see with diet in Japan, small portion, a lot of fish, cooked rice, not fried potato, not cream cakes, not sandwich meat for breakfast, a lot of vegetable and fibre.

Most members here agree that exercise isn't very helpful for losing weight--which it isn't. "You can't outrun a bad diet" is a common saying. So you aren't actually finding any disagreement here.

 

However, few outside Japan, except Japanese, are going to eat a Japanese diet steadily. When it comes to dieting, most here will just find excuses not to do it and stay fat. For the others (a minority) the quest will be to make Western food less fattening, to choose healthier Western food, or to eat less of it. Occasionally the odd exercise fanatic will show up claiming to burn 3000 calories a day on a rower or exercise bicycle.

 

But in the USA the overall average for everyone is only about 5,000 steps. The obese might walk 3,000 steps from the sofa to the kitchen and back during a day. If anyone very overweight is really walking 10,000, they shouldn't be so over-stressing their joints. They should instead keep up some exercise while they focus on losing a significant amount of weight via diet first.

 

I've lived in Japan and know the diet well. I also had to walk quite a lot in Japan. The average Japanese person is probably in better shape, fitness-wise, than the average American just owing to the walking. Let's not forget about having to walk up and down stairs! But that's still not very fit at all. I also went to the Nautilus gym in Shibuya regularly.

 

But again that isn't the topic. The topic is whether exercise will help you live longer. In Nagano, encouraging the population to walk more decreased the number of strokes and therefore increased the average lifespan.

 

 

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Most members here agree that exercise isn't very helpful for losing weight--which it isn't. "You can't outrun a bad diet" is a common saying. So you aren't actually finding any disagreement here.

 

However, few outside Japan, except Japanese, are going to eat a Japanese diet steadily. When it comes to dieting, most here will just find excuses not to do it and stay fat. For the others (a minority) the quest will be to make Western food less fattening, to choose healthier Western food, or to eat less of it. Occasionally the odd exercise fanatic will show up claiming to burn 3000 calories a day on a rower or exercise bicycle.

 

But in the USA the overall average for everyone is only about 5,000 steps. The obese might walk 3,000 steps from the sofa to the kitchen and back during a day. If anyone very overweight is really walking 10,000, they shouldn't be so over-stressing their joints. They should instead keep up some exercise while they focus on losing a significant amount of weight via diet first.

 

I've lived in Japan and know the diet well. I also had to walk quite a lot in Japan. The average Japanese person is probably in better shape, fitness-wise, than the average American just owing to the walking. Let's not forget about having to walk up and down stairs! But that's still not very fit at all. I also went to the Nautilus gym in Shibuya regularly.

 

But again that isn't the topic. The topic is whether exercise will help you live longer. In Nagano, encouraging the population to walk more decreased the number of strokes and therefore increased the average lifespan.

 

 

Did you do much rambling?

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Tanomazu said:

You are both wrong.

 

If you cook poutine or Bacon pies at home you still get fat. Simple more calories input than burnt calculation.

 

If you exercise and eat biscuits, cakes, chocolate, crisps and bacon you still get fat.

 

Hope this helps both of you.

Nothing I've said is inconsistent with this point. Of course one may eat tiny portions of the above foods so the input is small. That usually doesn't work for long, however.

 

Bacon per se is quite allowable on a low carb diet. However, pies aren't, so the very idea of low carb is a threat to the entire British Empire. (We gon' ignore those fake low carb pies--taste like sawdust and cardboard.)

 

"Calories in, calories out," now--we know that song quite well and sing it often. Well, sing anyway.

[Tanomazu]

17 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Most members here agree that exercise isn't very helpful for losing weight--which it isn't. "You can't outrun a bad diet" is a common saying. So you aren't actually finding any disagreement here.

 

However, few outside Japan, except Japanese, are going to eat a Japanese diet steadily. When it comes to dieting, most here will just find excuses not to do it and stay fat. For the others (a minority) the quest will be to make Western food less fattening, to choose healthier Western food, or to eat less of it. Occasionally the odd exercise fanatic will show up claiming to burn 3000 calories a day on a rower or exercise bicycle.

 

But in the USA the overall average for everyone is only about 5,000 steps. The obese might walk 3,000 steps from the sofa to the kitchen and back during a day. If anyone very overweight is really walking 10,000, they shouldn't be so over-stressing their joints. They should instead keep up some exercise while they focus on losing a significant amount of weight via diet first.

 

I've lived in Japan and know the diet well. I also had to walk quite a lot in Japan. The average Japanese person is probably in better shape, fitness-wise, than the average American just owing to the walking. Let's not forget about having to walk up and down stairs! But that's still not very fit at all. I also went to the Nautilus gym in Shibuya regularly.

 

But again that isn't the topic. The topic is whether exercise will help you live longer. In Nagano, encouraging the population to walk more decreased the number of strokes and therefore increased the average lifespan.

 

 

You have a point about the stairs in Japan, unfortunately. Still, clearly, since we both agree that exercise is secondary to diet, still it is diet that ensures Japanese have lower heart disease incidence than say Australians.

 

I don't think walking is stressful on joints, even at a 10000 step mark. I think you're right, if they want to lose weight then diet is the key. And you are right, even the walking, Japanese are not super fit because of it.

 

All things being equal exercise is always good and may increase lifespan, however, not always. Take footballer Christian Erikson, who was extremely well trained and fit, yet still suffered a heart attack. Genetic influences also matter. Social influences, ie diet, can matter too.

 

[Tanomazu]

9 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Nothing I've said is inconsistent with this point. Of course one may eat tiny portions of the above foods so the input is small. That usually doesn't work for long, however.

 

Bacon per se is quite allowable on a low carb diet. However, pies aren't, so the very idea of low carb is a threat to the entire British Empire. (We gon' ignore those fake low carb pies--taste like sawdust and cardboard.)

 

"Calories in, calories out," now--we know that song quite well and sing it often. Well, sing anyway.

Yes, tiny portions of biscuits does not work for most people. Once they start they can't stop.

 

Bacon on a low car diet, yes, but I was assuming normal eating patterns. Generally the fat, nutritional value of bacon do not make it conducive to weight loss, high calorie to volume ratio.

 

Calories are a key factor though. I guarantee you, if you eat a 800 calorie diet for 3 months you will lose weight. Guaranteed. And I also guarantee you that if you an 8000 calorie diet you will gain weight. I will win this bet any time of the day.

[BigStar]

26 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Did you do much rambling?

Mostly in Tokyo, LOL. But I did ramble a bit in Nagano Prefecture, ironically. The feeling of safety everywhere is most comfortable.

 

I remember once, up in the hills, coming upon an isolated country cemetery surrounded by trees. I noticed that one grave had a sealed bottle of Seagram's whiskey placed carefully beside it. Seemed to have been there a while. I was quite impressed; you can imagine just how long that bottle would have lasted in any cemetery back home, or among a cluster of chedi in Thailand.

[Tanomazu]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You're making a fairly basic mistake of thinking all food you eat is digested.

Excess unprocessed meat and veg tends to get pooped out undigested.

Excess processed foods (cakes, biscuits, factory manufactured pies) are completely digested.

So if you eat 8000 calories of "excess meat" you think the body will discard it undigested because you cooked it yourself, this is what you believe?