Thailand to combine Sinovac, AstraZeneca vaccine doses to boost protection - minister

[Fex Bluse]

2 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

What's the point in doing this?

 

It's time to forget about Sinovac and vaccinate the masses with the alternatives that do offer some sort of protection.

This allows the Thais and Chinese to save face.

 

They will say that each vaccine helps the other (read: Sinovac is useful). 

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

This mix and match is going to be nightmare when trying to avoid quarantine in another country.

Singapore already is not recognizing Sinovac in some situations.

Will become more widespread. imo

[rodknock]

what is new, government waste money on something new.

there brown bags are all redy filled.

[tingtongfarang]

11 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

This mix and match is going to be nightmare when trying to avoid quarantine in another country.

imagine trying to explain you got stabbed with one useless vax but they boosted it with AZ

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, tingtongfarang said:

imagine trying to explain you got stabbed with one useless vax but they boosted it with AZ

Or the other way around.

Not an exaggeration to imagine that some countries will not accept that or 2 doses of Sinovac as a fully vaccinated status. 

[djayz]

Have they stopped ordering the water? Are they going to increase the orders for the better vaccinations? 

Edited July 12, 2021 by djayz

[RichardColeman]

Be interesting to know if other countries will recognise 1 AZ and 1 of the Chinese rubbish as fully vaccinated for entry and not need quarantine

[rodknock]

see, pigs can fly!!

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Be interesting to know if other countries will recognise 1 AZ and 1 of the Chinese rubbish as fully vaccinated for entry and not need quarantine

Doubt it.

[JupiterRising]

The Thai government is now clutching at straws and approving every combination, that no other country has done to date. They are desperate to open Thailand to the original 9% tourism industry in May 2020, to 40% tourism December 2030, and the mainstay of industry with regard to GDP. 
But because they closed like a lot of SE Asian countries, they only held off the pandemic and now are witnessing and subjected to the virus coming into the country.

it was a bad decision as most old generals were scared (as we all were). However, this has had a reverse effect, as the virus is now running through the population as it is in Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam. But Malaysia, Singapore, and even Burma are moving out of this problem.

let’s see what happens!! As I think Thailand will be locked down completely very soon.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by JupiterRising
Addition of relevant data

[Dogmatix]

Every single Reuters story about Thai vaccines features that carrot topped nurse.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

26 minutes ago, tingtongfarang said:

imagine trying to explain you got stabbed with one useless vax but they boosted it with AZ

 

The general travel rule up until now, AFAIK, is most places have been accepting any "full vaccination" course of a vaccine that's been approved by the WHO or the destination country. Thus far, Sinovac remains approved by the WHO.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mfd101]

Health Minister wery goo. Try har. Not wast.

[EricTh]

To put things into perspective, changing to Astrazeneca for the second shot aren't going to change anything.

 

UK with a high rate of vaccination with Astrazeneca is seeing new cases rising due to the Delta variant.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57776814

 

The more infectious Delta variant now accounts for 99% of cases, according to Public Health England.

 

Around two-thirds of adults have now been double jabbed against the virus, and experts say this is helping prevent very big rises in Covid hospitalisations, although admissions are increasing.

 

Many of the infections being seen are among teenagers and young adults.

 

An estimated 400,000 people in the UK are thought to have been positive in the week to 3 July.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by EricTh

[lolalol]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Now if Thailand could just get some other nations to donate some COVID vaccine doses it would help Thailand climb out of the vaccine hole it dug for itself.   But once climbing out they would probably fall back in.

So they are basically on mercy of others. 

[Dogmatix]

Having caved in without much of a fight by agreeing to give boosters of AZ or Pfizer to medics, they now have no clue what to do and this seems to be clutching at straws. In addition to the 600k medics the other 6m who have had two shots of Sinvac are starting to clamour for boosters which would put a serious dent in their already messed up vaccine rollout. Opposition politicians and lawyer groups are threatening lodge constitutional and criminal cases against the government over Sinovac.  

 

Obviously no one is willingly going to take a shot of Sinovac followed a shot of AZ.  The research on mix and match has all been done in reputable farang countries, none of which have approved Chinese vaccines.  Therefore there is no reliable science about the safety and efficacy of this idea and there never will be, even if the government cobbles up something of its own. It is very likely that one or two shots of Sinovac add little or nothing to immunity against delta.  So they may soon be looking at completely revaccinating anyone who has had Sinovac.  There is also little reason to believe that Sinopharm will fare much better as it is largely the same methodology.  Howeve, there is even less information on Sinopharm from outside China because, being a government vaccine it was approved and rolled out in China well before Sinovac which had to aggressively market itself overseas to get any sales at all at the outset.  Thai virology researchers seem to feel very bitter about  being fobbed off with low efficacy Sinovac jabs, along with the medics, and it is most likely that they will be quick to publicise any findings they come up with to contradict governments claims of the merits of this desperate plan. 

 

There is no information on what exactly has gone wrong at SBS or whether the AZ production shortfalls can be rectified.  Even if they can, the supply of AZ will still be inadequate with this new demand on them.  Don't be surprised to see more complaints from other countries that are waiting for delayed AZ orders from Thailand. The only thing they can do to ease domestic shortages is to suspend all exports of vaccines, somethiing that has been done by the US, the Eu and India.  I think this will happen very soon. 

 

 

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Singapore already is not recognizing Sinovac in some situations.

Will become more widespread. imo

Singapore doesn't recognise Sinovac as a vaccine at all.  It is has just allowed private clinics to give it to fulfill requirements to have a Chinese vaccine for people travelling to China. 

[Dogmatix]

52 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Be interesting to know if other countries will recognise 1 AZ and 1 of the Chinese rubbish as fully vaccinated for entry and not need quarantine

555. Of course not.  Even China will not recognise that.  They only accept two shots of the same Chinese vaccine.  Many who have already had Pfizer or Moderna have to go and get Sinovac to go to China. 

[smedly]

First I know nothing about vaccines and unless studies have been carried out then this combination of two totally different vaccines giving only half of their doses each sounds to me like something a building contractor would come up with the building falling down shortly after - finding out that you cannot mix cement with oil instead of water

 

Both these vaccines need two doses to work - surely giving one dose of each together results in failure for both - apart from the fact that the chinese junk was a failure with two doses anyway aginst recent mutations 

 

This just sounds like a bad idea and not something any medical professional/expert would put their name too unless intensive studies were carried out to prove the concept first

 

In studies against the delta variant one dose of sinovac had something like 10% protection and two doses not much better and there is now a question over how long it actually provides that minimal protection - 1 - 2 months aparrently and it becomes defunct

 

so how exactly is this going to work - to me it sounds like they are trying to get away with giving one dose of AZ which we all know does not work and is not the recommended proven dosage of two doses 

[VocalNeal]

3 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Guess they are going to continue to use the current stocks of Sinovac for a first jab regardless......... rather than throw it away.

Because they bought it from whom?

[smedly]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Singapore already is not recognizing Sinovac in some situations.

Will become more widespread. imo

yes exactly - 

 

question when wanting to enter a country

 

Have you been fully vaccinated with a vaccine - well no, I had one dose of AZ and one dose of some chinese junk = NOT FULLY VACCINATED

 

would Thailand class foreign tourists coming into Thailand if they had this combination - I think not 

Edited July 12, 2021 by smedly

[smedly]

54 minutes ago, EricTh said:

To put things into perspective, changing to Astrazeneca for the second shot aren't going to change anything.

 

UK with a high rate of vaccination with Astrazeneca is seeing new cases rising due to the Delta variant.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57776814

 

The more infectious Delta variant now accounts for 99% of cases, according to Public Health England.

 

Around two-thirds of adults have now been double jabbed against the virus, and experts say this is helping prevent very big rises in Covid hospitalisations, although admissions are increasing.

 

Many of the infections being seen are among teenagers and young adults.

 

An estimated 400,000 people in the UK are thought to have been positive in the week to 3 July.

 

 

 

 

this info is missleading 

 

hospitalisations are mostly those who have not been vaccinated or only recieved one dose - this can also be applied to the spread of new infections 

 

It does however prove a point - one dose of AZ is ineffective against Delta it requires 2 doses - if the second dose is sinovac - what do you think, I have very serious doubts that this could possibly work 

 

The concept of booster jabs with a different vaccine has been studied and shown to be effective, but in all the studies the full dose (2 jabs) has been administer with the primary vaccine

[placeholder]

49 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

The only thing they can do to ease domestic shortages is to suspend all exports of vaccines, somethiing that has been done by the US, the Eu and India.  I think this will happen very soon. 

The problem is that Siam Bioscience depends on precursors from AstraZeneca to make the vaccine.

[placeholder]

“If you can explore different combinations, there frequently is a combination where you get a better outcome than just using the same vaccine twice in a row,” said Shane Crotty, a professor at the Center for Infectious Disease and Vaccine Research at California’s La Jolla Institute for Immunology. “I do think that’ll happen for COVID vaccines.”

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/07/09/world/covid-vaccine-boosters/

[zhounan]

Vodka lemon for me.

 

By now you can make the poultry masses believe anything

Edited July 12, 2021 by zhounan

[smedly]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

“If you can explore different combinations, there frequently is a combination where you get a better outcome than just using the same vaccine twice in a row,” said Shane Crotty, a professor at the Center for Infectious Disease and Vaccine Research at California’s La Jolla Institute for Immunology. “I do think that’ll happen for COVID vaccines.”

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/07/09/world/covid-vaccine-boosters/

perhaps - but they are talking about vaccines of the same type - in this case mRNA vaccines mostly used in the US 

 

so your point is mute in this case 

[ourmanflint]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

Where is the logic here...if Sinovac is useless why they should have a Sinovac jab at all, one jab of AZ is enough right?

No one jab of AZ is not enough, but 1 jab of AZ is better than 2 jabs of sinovac. The govt wasted time, money and peoples lives because they bought into the Sinovac deal without thinking through the consequences, and without enough evidence that Sinovac was going to be able to protect those that were given it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

So they may soon be looking at completely revaccinating anyone who has had Sinovac. 

One very curious and interesting thing emerged the other day when Bumrungrad Hospital set its own rules for who they would allow to apply for Moderna vaccines with them....

 

To to apply with them, you had to either:

A: not have had any prior vaccinations, or

B: have had TWO Sinovac vaccinations.

 

No public explanation given of why they would be opening their Moderna lottery to folks who have already had two Sinovac jabs... But, the likely answer seems apparent.

 

 

Subsequent to my pulling this screen cap from their website earlier today, Bumrungrad appears to have taken down all the registration info for Moderna vaccinations.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

perhaps - but they are talking about vaccines of the same type - in this case mRNA vaccines mostly used in the US 

 

so your point is mute in this case 

The article may be about that but there's no indication that Shane Crotty's generalization is confined to the mRNA vaccines.

[pasathai]

the effective % combine or deduct ?