Thailand to combine Sinovac, AstraZeneca vaccine doses to boost protection - minister

[mackayae]

I wonder what I will get for my 2nd jab at Phaya Thai 2 next week? 1st jab was Sinovac.

[thaitom]

18 hours ago, ukrules said:

Sounds like a good idea but I would make one small change.

 

Vaccinate them all with 2 shots of AstraZeneca vaccine as if they were completely unvaccinated - because they pretty much are unvaccinated.

 

Erase the Chinese vaccine from all records that are used to prove vaccination, it doesn't work.

Today, they replaced the second dose of Sinovac with AstraZeneca for everyone here. They had someone go to the hospital and bring a vial of Sinovac just for me, next week the hospital will give me a vaccine passport, but I don't quite understand why the passport is only valid for 3 months then you can request another one. ?? They know I only needed it so I can get a Chinese visa, Very kind and helpful they were. I will wait a few weeks to get a booster dose of AstraZeneca.

[ourmanflint]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

Firstly, if they'd initially been given AZ, they'd still be looking at a 2nd AZ. Secondly, most countries are now talking 3rd shot boosters, so whatever was given 1st and 2nd falls into your definition as useless, right? Seems most vaxes have diminishing potency against new strains.

You seem happy to miss the point which is, that purchasing Sinovac, a more expensive vaccine than AZ was a massive mistake. The govt did have options to buy from other sources but didn't. 

It adds up to a huge waste of money and worse a huge waste of manpower and time, things which in a pandemic are extremely important not to waste. They would not be looking at AZ boosters, or any boosters until long after everyone was vaccinated, if they had not bought Sinovac

[PuaSai]

Ought to be interesting watching this experiment and the outcome of mixing vaccines on the populace...  SMH

[thailandbeachisland]

two <deleted> vaccine make a good one ?!

 

[Khunangkaro]

Good idea booster jab to be sure... Sinovac + Astra Z. 

And follow up with Pfizer

 

[bradiston]

15 minutes ago, ourmanflint said:

You seem happy to miss the point which is, that purchasing Sinovac, a more expensive vaccine than AZ was a massive mistake. The govt did have options to buy from other sources but didn't. 

It adds up to a huge waste of money and worse a huge waste of manpower and time, things which in a pandemic are extremely important not to waste. They would not be looking at AZ boosters, or any boosters until long after everyone was vaccinated, if they had not bought Sinovac

I think you're abusing the privilege of hindsight. There was a rumour that the government turned down the offer of 20m Pfizer jabs early this year, as they were banking on a ready supply of AstraZaneca from you know where. Quitewhen they started to realise this didn't lookmlike materialising is anybody's guess. However, Sinovac was readily available, and much of it for free. Latterly, the mRNA and other vaccines became, and have become, increasingly difficult to source.

 

It's easy to say the Thai government should have ordered this, that, or the other way back, but they were, I guess, relying on AstraZaneca to deliver on the contract here. Sad fact is, AstraZaneca appears to have got everything wrong about the licence issued here. The blame should be at their door IMHO. Taiwan was offered the SE Asian contract initially, but turned it down as AstraZaneca required they produce 300m doses, which the Taiwanese decided was not within their capabilities. What a missed opportunity, if only for half that amount. Now Taiwan is in a worse mess than Thailand but has allowed the big guns in the private sector, Foxconn and TSMC, to negotiate with BioNtec, via its Chinese partner, Fosun Pharmaceuticals, to acquire 2 orders of 5m doses of Pfizer.

 

BTW, BioNtec is a German company headed and co-founded by the children of Turkish gastarbeite, German for immigrants, or guest workers. The research that went into the mRNA vaccines was done by an Hungarian biochemist, Katalin Karikó. Pfizer was initially involved in marketing and logistics only. But of course, a lot of water has gone under the bridge, and even old man Gates out in $395m or thereabouts. Hopefully the Qanon and co morons will forego its use on that basis so there will be all the more for sane people like you and me.

[utalkin2me]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/chief-scientist-warns-individuals-against-054904801.html

[utalkin2me]

2 hours ago, thailandbeachisland said:

two <deleted> vaccine make a good one ?!

 

Kill two birds with one stone. Wait…

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I think you're abusing the privilege of hindsight. There was a rumour that the government turned down the offer of 20m Pfizer jabs early this year, as they were banking on a ready supply of AstraZaneca from you know where. Quitewhen they started to realise this didn't lookmlike materialising is anybody's guess. However, Sinovac was readily available, and much of it for free. Latterly, the mRNA and other vaccines became, and have become, increasingly difficult to source.

 

It's easy to say the Thai government should have ordered this, that, or the other way back, but they were, I guess, relying on AstraZaneca to deliver on the contract here. Sad fact is, AstraZaneca appears to have got everything wrong about the licence issued here. The blame should be at their door IMHO. Taiwan was offered the SE Asian contract initially, but turned it down as AstraZaneca required they produce 300m doses, which the Taiwanese decided was not within their capabilities. What a missed opportunity, if only for half that amount. Now Taiwan is in a worse mess than Thailand but has allowed the big guns in the private sector, Foxconn and TSMC, to negotiate with BioNtec, via its Chinese partner, Fosun Pharmaceuticals, to acquire 2 orders of 5m doses of Pfizer.

 

BTW, BioNtec is a German company headed and co-founded by the children of Turkish gastarbeite, German for immigrants, or guest workers. The research that went into the mRNA vaccines was done by an Hungarian biochemist, Katalin Karikó. Pfizer was initially involved in marketing and logistics only. But of course, a lot of water has gone under the bridge, and even old man Gates out in $395m or thereabouts. Hopefully the Qanon and co morons will forego its use on that basis so there will be all the more for sane people like you and me.

Nothing to do with hindsight, plain straight forward planning that was missed at every turn and has lead to the mess Thailand is in now. Relying on just one manufacturer, ie AZ through Siam Bioscience was a failed decision that everybody warned about at the beginning of this. 

 

CP's investment into Sinovac which has turned out to be a very shrewd has led Thailand to now rely on this as its current main vaccine until AZ goes fully online and they get hold of other mrna vaccines

[jak2002003]

19 hours ago, tingtongfarang said:

guinea pig testing on this just started

Yes. And WHO has advised against this too.

[bradiston]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nothing to do with hindsight, plain straight forward planning that was missed at every turn and has lead to the mess Thailand is in now. Relying on just one manufacturer, ie AZ through Siam Bioscience was a failed decision that everybody warned about at the beginning of this. 

 

CP's investment into Sinovac which has turned out to be a very shrewd has led Thailand to now rely on this as its current main vaccine until AZ goes fully online and they get hold of other mrna vaccines

But they didn't simply rely on SBS. They've shipped in about 12m doses of Sinovac since February. I took it. I've got my 2nd shot next Tuesday, but as yet no idea what it will be. Some SE Asian nations are doing a lot worse. I'm not a Prayut fan or apologist, and I agree they've cocked it up for sure (aka monumental bxxxx up), but at least they're vaxing at a reasonable rate with what they've got. You might be used to getting optimal results from your government, though God knows it's hard to imagine what country you hail from if that's the case, but right here, right now, this is, for the mean time, as good as it gets. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by bradiston

[Harveyboy]

ok so what do we gain..well for those who were to get sinovac its a bonus now getting a stronger vax but for the poor buggers who should have gotten strait AZ  they are now getting a weaker shot .. nothing gained here just the government clutching at straws

[VBF]

20 hours ago, Pib said:

Oh, that would upset Big Brother China....Thailand don't want to upset it's big brother

Allow me to correct you: "Thailand don't want to upset it's big brother pimp"

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, bradiston said:

But they didn't simply rely on SBS. They've shipped in about 12m doses of Sinovac since February. I took it. I've got my 2nd shot next Tuesday, but as yet no idea what it will be. Some SE Asian nations are doing a lot worse. I'm not a Prayut fan or apologist, and I agree they've cocked it up for sure (aka monumental bxxxx up), but at least they're vaxing at a reasonable rate with what they've got. You might be used to getting optimal results from your government, though God knows it's hard to imagine what country you hail from if that's the case, but right here, right now, this is for the mean time, as good as it gets. 

They are vaxing at a reasonable rate yes but with Sinovac as its majority brand that is not effective enough with Delta. They are still making poor decisions by not ordering enough pfizer even though it may not get here till next year why not order now instead of being in exactly the same position again. Same mistakes over and over again.

 

Even the Siam Bioscience spokeswoman Nualphan Lamsam said that relying on “one horse” by the government was a bad decision.

 

As for what country I hail from makes no difference we are talking about the chaotic mess Thailand is in and the very poor and frankly dangerous decision to combine Sinovac one dose followed by a dose of AZ

[UbonEagle]

Nothing wrong with this strategy, lot of talk in australia now about possible upsides of mixing vax types, every chance a mix of these 2 would be far more effective that 2 shots of sinovax. Yes of course would have been better not getting so deep into the sino to start with , but the china ties plus cost and supply issues were always going to play their part in the TH vax strategy...its not like theyre the only country thats @%#$ed this up !

[The Hammer2021]

21 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

So basically wasting all of these AZ vaccines on boosters because the sinovac govt bought turned out to be useless.

Not useless at all. It has given massive protection in an ongoing changing situation.

[The Hammer2021]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

They are vaxing at a reasonable rate yes but with Sinovac as its majority brand that is not effective enough with Delta. They are still making poor decisions by not ordering enough pfizer even though it may not get here till next year why not order now instead of being in exactly the same position again. Same mistakes over and over again.

 

Even the Siam Bioscience spokeswoman Nualphan Lamsam said that relying on “one horse” by the government was a bad decision.

 

As for what country I hail from makes no difference we are talking about the chaotic mess Thailand is in and the very poor and frankly dangerous decision to combine Sinovac one dose followed by a dose of AZ

Which country are you from? It shapes your view and the validity of your judgement. I think ALL people here who criticize Thailand should be open about their country of origin.

[BobinBKK]

21 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow very interesting.  So, those that have only one Sinovac will now get a Astrazeneca?

Sounds good but have there been sufficient studies on the safety/efficacy of this mix of vaccines?  

 

Apparently the WHO strongly advises against doing this and specifically calls out "Thailand" in their statement.

 

World Health Organisation warns against “dangerous trend” of mixing Covid vaccines

Source: https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/world-health-organisation-warns-against-dangerous-trend-of-mixing-covid-vaccines

[samtam]

33 minutes ago, bradiston said:

But they didn't simply rely on SBS. They've shipped in about 12m doses of Sinovac since February. I took it. I've got my 2nd shot next Tuesday, but as yet no idea what it will be. Some SE Asian nations are doing a lot worse. I'm not a Prayut fan or apologist, and I agree they've cocked it up for sure (aka monumental bxxxx up), but at least they're vaxing at a reasonable rate with what they've got. You might be used to getting optimal results from your government, though God knows it's hard to imagine what country you hail from if that's the case, but right here, right now, this is, for the mean time, as good as it gets. 

I'm curious how you were able to get Sinovac (in February? or recently?), and your second shot next week. Did you have some special entry, like working for a conglomerate? Many over 60 with comorbidities haven't had one jab of either. Myself included, despite asking my hospital/doctor about vaxx in February. I am scheduled to get my first dose of something next week, but until that needle is in my arm, I will not count that chicken.

 

As well as my hospital/doctor, I have registered with various other places, all of which have come to naught thus far. 

 

Yes, with what they've procured, less the 5% fully vaxxed is indeed impressive. Therein lies the rub. Procurement has been a disaster of epic proportions, which is now bearing the rotten fruit we should all dread, vaccinated or not.

Edited July 13, 2021 by samtam

[samtam]

1 hour ago, thaitom said:

Today, they replaced the second dose of Sinovac with AstraZeneca for everyone here. They had someone go to the hospital and bring a vial of Sinovac just for me, next week the hospital will give me a vaccine passport, but I don't quite understand why the passport is only valid for 3 months then you can request another one. ?? They know I only needed it so I can get a Chinese visa, Very kind and helpful they were. I will wait a few weeks to get a booster dose of AstraZeneca.

Where is "here"?

[Midwit]

All of you people that think it’s a good idea to take an experimental jab and mix it with another one on the word of the Thai government that has proven to be inept might need to do some thinking on that. How about if you are worried about C-19 you go outside and exercise. It seems to be much less deadly if you are not obese. 

[chrisbangkok]

Really would of expected a lab in Thailand to have been producing vaccines under license by now . They set themselves up as the "hub" for medical and pharma going forwards , lot's of tax incentives on offer for example for medtechs to open in Thai. 

Is the issue one of face perhaps ? Seems shameful to run cap in hand to the west to resolve the situation maybe ? Very Thai of course.

Undoubtedly the current regime is supremely incompetent being mostly staffed with military millionaires without any knowledge or expertise in most areas and too proud to call on real experts in the field.

I fear many more deaths unfortunately until they get mass vaccination in place and with effective choices.

Focus on production , there is available technology in country oh and streamline the acceptance and sign off for "foreign" drugs rather than the extraordinary process in Thai FDA for approving anything that isn't Thai or supported by under the table money to the already million and billionaires .

 

[placnx]

4 hours ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

Not sure that's a great idea?

WHO warns against mixing and matching COVID vaccines

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-warns-against-mixing-matching-covid-vaccines-2021-07-12/

WHO or CEPI should be organizing trials for combinations that would help solve the shortage of good vaccines in Thailand and much of the world. In EU and US they are not going to bother with Sinovac in combination with AZ, J&J, mRNA vaccines, so some responsible party should step up.

[raccos21]

21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

This is to improve protection against the Delta variant and build a high level of immunity against the disease," Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul told reporters, adding that the second dose of AstraZeneca would come three or four weeks after the first Sinovac shot

This guy must be clown saying mixing vaccines can improve the protection.

 

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/world/2021/07/13/who-warns-against-mixing-and-matching-covid-vaccines

[superal]

20 hours ago, Crossy said:

Has this actually been tested? Results?

 

Having got lucky and had my first shot of Az I hope they don't decide that the other way round is also good to go, and replace my second Az shot with Sinovac.

 

Given the current state of vaccine affairs in Thailand where there is probably governmental panic on their vaccine roll out under-performance , can you really trust that the vaccine you are getting is the vaccine that is on the vial label ? It is not beyond the realms of possibility in some far east countries but very unlikely in western countries .

[Bkk Brian]

37 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Which country are you from? It shapes your view and the validity of your judgement. I think ALL people here who criticize Thailand should be open about their country of origin.

It is a universal view it makes absolutely no difference what country you are from, this is not about me:

 

WHO warns against mixing and matching COVID vaccines

[samtam]

40 minutes ago, Midwit said:

All of you people that think it’s a good idea to take an experimental jab and mix it with another one on the word of the Thai government that has proven to be inept might need to do some thinking on that. How about if you are worried about C-19 you go outside and exercise. It seems to be much less deadly if you are not obese. 

Can't we do everything - exercise to keep our immune systems at their best, eat a diet that enhances that, take Ivermectin if you believe in it, AND get a vaccination? I'm lacking in the last piece, because I can't get it. The first two are my normal lifestyle, enhanced by giving up alcohol for the foreseeable. On top of that, I only ventured out to go grocery shopping once a week, but now I have that done by a personal shopper, and it's delivered. I have ceased regular or prolonged contact with anyone, except my partner. Even the maid has been paused, because I want to avoid transmissibility either way. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by samtam

[3NUMBAS]

france are aiming for 100% takeup ,compulsory jabs or they lose their salary if no   jab

[gearbox]

55 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Not useless at all. It has given massive protection in an ongoing changing situation.

Most of the governments in the world are largely contributing to the vaccine confusion by not publishing daily breakthrough cases for partially and fully immunized people, including hospitalization and deaths. IMO WHO should issue a directive for this. Otherwise you get tons of useless discussions and threads with opinions from people who lack basic logical and numerical skills. There are already nearly 4 billion jabs dispensed already,  enough to start producing daily stats for breakthrough cases.

 

There are nearly 10 million jabs dispensed already in Thailand, if the vaccines used are not effective enough where are the breakthrough deaths? Not happening or the government not disclosing the numbers?