Trouble with one of our dogs

[sirineou]

We have recently returned  to Thailand ,having been stuck in the US with the covid situation. We have been here for a little over two months now.  Sister in law that lives next to us took care of the house and dogs while we were away. Three of them are fine, but one of them Her name is PI Mee has established herself as the Alpha female (all four of the dogs are female and are not neutered) she puts the other three dogs down and steps on them and bites them. She also does that a few times at night waking up the whole neighborhood with their yelping. Last light she drew flood from one of the dogs, there was blood all over. So I had enough , but don't know what to do. IMO I have a few  options, One is to put Pi Mee  down, and the other to keep her separated somehow, three would be to but a muzzle on her and fourth perhaps get a trainer and change the behaviousre. but I don't know how affective or how expensive it would be  

I would appreciate any suggestion from those who have experience with dogs.

We live in Khon Kaen  

[ColeBOzbourne]

Maybe give her a zap with a shock collar whenever she approaches the other dogs in a dominant manner. But you can't watch her 24/7, so tie her up or otherwise separate her when you can't be there to watch. Be sure to keep the shock collar or a dummy collar on her at all times or she will soon figure it out that it is you or the collar, rather than her behavior, that is the problem. As much as possible, just sit and observe the dogs and zap her when needed. Hopefully she will learn to associate dominant behavior with an unpleasant experience.

[worgeordie]

Separate her from the other dogs for a few weeks, then when she

is introduced to the others she will be the new dog, and will not be

leader of the pack....try that, better than having her put down,as its

not her fault.

regards Worgeordie

[grain]

If she attacked and drew blood from one of your other dogs, which she is familiar with and presumably grew up with, then you run the risk that she'll also maybe attack and draw blood for some passing person, a kid on a bike. If that happens you're in deep deep &%$@. If you're considering putting a muzzle on a dog because it's become dangerous then IMHO the party's over and it time to get rid of the damn thing. Put her down or donate her to one of the temples miles away, see how she gets on trying to be the Alpha among a pack of temple strays.

[utalkin2me]

Best to let them work it out. Us working out dog problems is kinda like humans trying to stop covid. you’ll prob do the opposite of what you should. 

[steven100]

6 minutes ago, grain said:

donate her to one of the temples

just what Thailand needs, more temple dogs

[cleopatra2]

OP

What appears to have occurred is the pack lost its leader, namely you when you left. In the natural order this individual dog took over the status of being the alpha.

 

It is required for you to assert the acceptable boundaries.

[jak2002003]

Some terrible advise so far, excepting the post above mine. ...sorry, but the posters don't seem to have ever owned their own dogs or know anything about them. 

 

OP....the problems are that the dogs are not neutered.  Another problem is they are all females.  Now some are starting to come into season and that is very likely why the fighting is happening.

 

How can you think about putting the dog down rather than getting it neutered? 

 

You have 4 female dogs that will end up pregnant and giving birth to a litter of puppies! What are you going to do with all those dogs?

 

My advise it to get them all to a vet and neuter them.  Then keep the trouble making one separate for a few weeks. 

 

Make sure you or someone else is giving the dogs daily exercise.  If they are kept in the yard all day they will have pent up energy and be bored and more likely to fight.

 

Feeding them separately is also a good idea...as is not having bones or toys about that they will fight over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

38 minutes ago, sirineou said:

all four of the dogs are female and are not neutered)

Get all of them neutered meanwhile put a mussel on Pl mee.

[Doctor Tom]

41 minutes ago, sirineou said:

s to put Pi Mee  down,

No, no no, she is exhibiting the domineer gene to control and be the boss, also not having had puppies could lead to frustration with other females.  just have her sterilized ( and the others) and she will be fine. Don't kill the dog, for just being a dog. 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Some terrible advise so far, excepting the post above mine. ...sorry, but the posters don't seem to have ever owned their own dogs or know anything about them. 

 

OP....the problems are that the dogs are not neutered.  Another problem is they are all females.  Now some are starting to come into season and that is very likely why the fighting is happening.

 

How can you think about putting the dog down rather than getting it neutered? 

 

You have 4 female dogs that will end up pregnant and giving birth to a litter of puppies! What are you going to do with all those dogs?

 

My advise it to get them all to a vet and neuter them.  Then keep the trouble making one separate for a few weeks. 

 

Make sure you or someone else is giving the dogs daily exercise.  If they are kept in the yard all day they will have pent up energy and be bored and more likely to fight.

 

Feeding them separately is also a good idea...as is not having bones or toys about that they will fight over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

our property is all fenced in and the dogs never get out, so they are not a danger to anyone else. Putting her down was only considered as an option, and a last option at that, We love dogs and all of them are rescue dogs. we picked up from the streets as puppies, I have asked the wife to get them neutered several times, and I get the all female problem which is why I mentioned.  I will try separating her at night , or when I am nor around to keep the peace. . 

[sirineou]

31 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Separate her from the other dogs for a few weeks, then when she

is introduced to the others she will be the new dog, and will not be

leader of the pack....try that, better than having her put down,as its

not her fault.

regards Worgeordie

That sounds like good advice, Worgeordie perhaps I will give that a try.

[cnx1204]

How are you feeding them, in what order?  Dominant dog should eat first and maybe separated?   I am semi guessing here.  Maybe google dominant dog handling, dominant female dog handling, etc.   Look up the Dog Whisperer on YouTube and see if he has an applicable video?

[rumak]

i love the dog whisperer ,   but really,  it is like watching an instructional video by a professional baseball player on how to hit a baseball.     99% are still going to hit and miss.

 

Still,  one can learn a lot from old Cesar.    I learned how to treat children, and girlfriends by his simple advice :   One must set rules, boundaries,  and limitations 

 

 

there are many keyboard pack leaders.   in real life i meet few

[Doctor Tom]

13 minutes ago, sirineou said:

our property is all fenced in and the dogs never get out, so they are not a danger to anyone else. Putting her down was only considered as an option, and a last option at that, We love dogs and all of them are rescue dogs. we picked up from the streets as puppies, I have asked the wife to get them neutered several times, and I get the all female problem which is why I mentioned.  I will try separating her at night , or when I am nor around to keep the peace. . 

I have 2 small Shih Tzus,  one male and one female.  I ensure that unlike most domestic animals here, they get regular exercise.  I have found a local valley park that is grassed and without soi dogs and they can run free there for 30 minutes or so in the early evening, or we go to the beach.  If for some reason they don't get that exercise, they can become lethargic and irritated with each other.  Maybe a fenced in property , unless its quite large, is part of the problem?  Our garden is fairly big by Thai standards (circa 80 m x 50 m),  but it is still not enough for two small, young, vibrant and energetic dogs. 

[Cake Monster]

37 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

OP

What appears to have occurred is the pack lost its leader, namely you when you left. In the natural order this individual dog took over the status of being the alpha.

 

It is required for you to assert the acceptable boundaries.

Yes indeed.

You have to reestablish the fact that you are the Pack Leader.

If the Bitch tries to chastise a sibling, then you need to chastise her first, and hard.

The message is then sent that you do the chastising and not Her.

[Surelynot]

35 minutes ago, sirineou said:

so they are not a danger to anyone

Said every dog owner ....EVER.

[Surelynot]

15 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

I have 2 small Shih Tzus,  one male and one female.  I ensure that unlike most domestic animals here, they get regular exercise.  I have found a local valley park that is grassed and without soi dogs and they can run free there for 30 minutes or so in the early evening, or we go to the beach.  If for some reason they don't get that exercise, they can become lethargic and irritated with each other.  Maybe a fenced in property , unless its quite large, is part of the problem?  Our garden is fairly big by Thai standards (circa 80 m x 50 m),  but it is still not enough for two small, young, vibrant and energetic dogs. 

I hope you are picking up all their ßhit.

[fredscats]

muzzle,but well padded at mouth area,seen soi mutts who attack anything with these on   works

[BE88]

57 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Some terrible advise so far, excepting the post above mine. ...sorry, but the posters don't seem to have ever owned their own dogs or know anything about them. 

 

OP....the problems are that the dogs are not neutered.  Another problem is they are all females.  Now some are starting to come into season and that is very likely why the fighting is happening.

 

How can you think about putting the dog down rather than getting it neutered? 

 

You have 4 female dogs that will end up pregnant and giving birth to a litter of puppies! What are you going to do with all those dogs?

 

My advise it to get them all to a vet and neuter them.  Then keep the trouble making one separate for a few weeks. 

 

Make sure you or someone else is giving the dogs daily exercise.  If they are kept in the yard all day they will have pent up energy and be bored and more likely to fight.

 

Feeding them separately is also a good idea...as is not having bones or toys about that they will fight over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A forewarned advice that I fully agree with.

Having four non-spayed female dogs that practice in Thailand so Sirineau don't follow bad examples.

 

 

 

 

[Doctor Tom]

13 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I hope you are picking up all their ßhit.

Of course I do, I am  not socially irresponsible. The park we go to also has bins designated for dog waste bags. We are not all dicks.  

[Surelynot]

Just now, Doctor Tom said:

Of course I do, I am  not socially irresponsible. The park we go to also has bins designated for dog waste bags. We are not all dicks.  

Thank you so much.........you are one of not many......

[Doctor Tom]

11 minutes ago, fredscats said:

muzzle,but well padded at mouth area,seen soi mutts who attack anything with these on   works

In their own home? No need to muzzle any dog, unless it is a dangerous breed and will bite people and attack other unknown dogs outside  the home. 

[Doctor Tom]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Male dogs are smarter than Einstein when it comes to covering a bitch in season, they come from miles around.

So do a lot of farangs in Thailand, only its not a few miles around, its thousands of miles.  Nature will always win out.  

[colinneil]

1 minute ago, Doctor Tom said:

In their own home? No need to muzzle any dog, unless it is a dangerous breed and will bite people and attack other unknown dogs outside  the home. 

Totally disagree with you, i have five dogs, many soi dogs roaming around outside, night time used to be a nightmare, dogs barking all the time.

The one of my dogs making the most noise was muzzled at night, stopped all the noise.

Now none of my dogs are allowed out of the gate, but one dog will bite,  it hates men, due to being severely kicked by a night time intruder two years ago, so if we have visitors she gets chained and muzzled.

[sirineou]

17 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Totally disagree with you, i have five dogs, many soi dogs roaming around outside, night time used to be a nightmare, dogs barking all the time.

The one of my dogs making the most noise was muzzled at night, stopped all the noise.

Now none of my dogs are allowed out of the gate, but one dog will bite,  it hates men, due to being severely kicked by a night time intruder two years ago, so if we have visitors she gets chained and muzzled.

I Will try separating Pi Mee at night, see how that works, and if does not I will try the muzzle and see if that does the trick. 

Someone suggested separating the aggressive dog (Pi Mee) for a couple of weeks to see if it changes the pecking order, tough I highly doubt it Pi Me is a queen you can see it in the way she walks and carries herself, and the others are just goofy.  I  realize that one of them will have to be the dominate one, I lust wish she was not so aggressive, Also it is not right that the other three would be terrified  of her.  

 

[faraday]

14 minutes ago, colinneil said:

if we have visitors she gets chained and muzzled.

Bit harsh that Colin; don't the visitors object to being restrained?

 

*Laughing emoji*

[1FinickyOne]

No solution as I have a similar problem w/a dominant female here... I inherited 2 very spoiled dogs and the dominant one tries to control me... 

 

but, they all have individual personalities and it is not easy to find a general solution to this... knowing them, try and use the most suitable advice from here and your judgment... 

 

ps - did that first half of the language guide work for you? 

[Speedo1968]

1 hour ago, Doctor Tom said:

No, no no, she is exhibiting the domineer gene to control and be the boss, also not having had puppies could lead to frustration with other females.  just have her sterilized ( and the others) and she will be fine. Don't kill the dog, for just being a dog. 

Agree and would suggest that PI Mee sterilized first.
You will need to take care of her perhaps separately after the op but, try not to make it seem you are giving preference to her otherwise issues may occur after.

Alternatively have all dogs neutered at the same time and keep them housed separately, expensive but you placed them in this position, the dogs are just acting naturally. 

 

Ensure they have collars.

You may find they will come in to a phantom season every few months after the op, thats normal.

[clivebaxter]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

just what Thailand needs, more temple dogs

Some have cctv now and threaten 40k bhat fines for dog dumpers, have it put down.