We're in this crisis because of the PM's selfishness. Phra Yut made all Thais suffer. Now he can make other countries suffer, too? We're all in the same boat. Honour the contracts.

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

India was and is the biggest producer of vaccines in the world and is at the forefront of vaccine production and has been way before Covid. Maybe because of this, they have special status or a different status or agreement to Thailand. Maybe, India's existing framework of rules and regulations regarding vaccines, was used, I don't know.

 

What we do know is Thailand was selected to be the hub of production and distribution for South East Asian nations by Astra Zenica. The company, Siam Bio which was selected had never done a project like this before. They got the rights to produce Astra Zenica under license with various, and a huge number of conditions attached.

 

It was made very clear at the time and based on the Thai governments needs and forecasts what they would and could produce, what was for domestic use and what was for other neighbors in the region, and what was for Covax programmes and other uses.

 

Also, bearing in mind, vaccines are being group bought under the Covax scheme, also under varied and different bilateral agreements, some for profit others for humanitarian reasons, and so forth. These agreements differ by which country is purchasing as do the terms and conditions.

 

One thing is for sure, if India was breaking international agreements on production it will come out just like any other country, if it is in breach.

 

It wasn't so long ago the EU was trying to blackmail, sue and pressurize Astra Zenica in the rollout saying they were giving the UK special treatment, and when documents were produced that differed, it seems to have gone quiet.

 

When this is over, there will be a reckoning and that includes where the virus actually originated and who dropped the ball..

Its the same.  India had international agreements and broke them and the world understood because people were dying.  They were supposed to be a hub of production.  Same will be for Thailand if the powers that be can give up the tea money that comes with international sales.  No-one will think the worse of Thailand.  These are extraordinary times.  In any case I posted my original post with reference to India as a precedent.  I felt your rebuttal was harsh given my reference to an identical precedent.  

7 hours ago, Spock said:

Australia was in the same situation and didn't order enough vaccine. Then the locally manufactured Astra Zeneca, already not producing sufficient quantities, was undermined by an AZ blood clot scare, and the government banned its use for under 60s. Then with rising cases, the government reversed its ban, but the PR damage meant the country became awash with unused AZ. There is more of an uptake since it has become obvious that lockdowns will be a permanent feature of Australian life until 80% vaccination is reached. Thailand and Australia actually have quite a lot in common in terms of the rollout, with Thailand displaying an even greater level of incompetence as well as being totally overrun by cases. 

I think the jury is still out on who leads the Covid incompetence race.  

Off topic posts and the replies about Trump/Biden have been removed. 

2 hours ago, itsari said:

Rubbing salt in the wound with that offer

Heh heh heh, those other people may not have heard the news with all the grandstanding that has gone on MMMmmm 

2 hours ago, club said:

What's Thailand going to do , file a lawsuit on AZ if that happened

Is that a statement or a question?

 

I am no expert on vaccine or supply contracts - just saying, It’s a bit naive to believe that Thailand can turn its back on the supply contract and keep its production, not only as others have said, it’s not really legally possible - but it’s also not physically possible without AZ cooperation. 

2 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I think the jury is still out on who leads the Covid incompetence race.  

Australia takes the gold medal

10 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I’m sure AZ have a water tight agreement as they have been dealing with many countries so there legal team are a lot cleverer than the majority of the Thai government. As for the doctor who suggests this are his brains in his nether regions . Thailand had well over a year to organise vaccines but for reasons only known to them chose not to ,the U.K. on the other hand have vaccinated 75% of the population of 65 million people . No excuses the Thai government have failed miserably and the good people of the kingdom know this and have had enough of the incompetence hence why they now want to bring in a law to protect themselves from future prosecution.

EU may still be suing AZ for late delivery, while India stopped the export of AZ jabs entirely. In the latter case, the vaccine was being produced by a private Indian company. Here, AZ evidently has a contract with Siam Bioscience, so the Thai government could commandeer the production just as India has done. Would AZ halt supplying ingredients? Wouldn't that be unethical?

10 hours ago, XJPSX said:

Why would they stop supplying Philippines when they pay 2.5 times the amount the Thai govt pays.

Remember who owns these companies and all of the snouts in the trough down the pecking line.

It will never stop supplying other countries even at the expense of their own people. It’s better financially to buy Sinovac and export Astra.

It's been reported that Sinovac is more expensive than AZ.

12 hours ago, hotchilli said:

If they tried to do this they would be hung out to dry in court battles.

You do know who pwns the courts, don't you?

11 hours ago, Molly Malone said:

Earth shattering revelation!!! Save your country men/women and children FIRST! 

Gosh why didn't someone else think of that OBVIOUS solution? 

 

OH WAIT, a lot of us "white devils" have been screaming our n*pples off saying just that!!

 

Open the darn GYMS also = so those sensible people with a IQ above room temperature can exercise "safely" and maintain our standard of health. 

Oldish overweight unhealthy people are MORE susceptible to covid, "duh"! 

I think the problem with opening gyms is that older and less healthy people are likely to have worse outcomes such as hospitalisation or death but as far as I know aren't more likely to become infected or transmit Covid. Gyms are likely places to spread Covid unless precautions such as distancing and mask wearing are practised and rules aren't something that are always observed. It might work ok but how do you stop people who don't have the IQ required. I agree that there are many benefits to exercise.

15 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Prayut has no control over the AZ production or contracted deliveries.

and it would be odd to see the good General issuing "orders" to compel the owner of SB to do anything he does not want to......

11 hours ago, club said:

Completely different situation, Thailand is talking about taking doses that have been paid for and allocated to other countries. Thailand would be breaching the contract not AZ. AZ is delivering what was signed in their contract with AZ. 40% or 5 to 6 mil a month. If Thailand wanted more a month they would have to re negotiate the contract.  

 

Correct except I think the original contract amount may have been even less and they may have re-negotiated up to 5-6 mil a month. I read some where that the initial Thai govt stated "requirement" was only 3 mil a month. At which rate it would have taken 2-3 years to vaccinate the adult population.

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Correct except I think the original contract amount may have been even less and they may have re-negotiated up to 5-6 mil a month. I read some where that the initial Thai govt stated "requirement" was only 3 mil a month. At which rate it would have taken 2-3 years to vaccinate the adult population.

I believe at the time that Thailand had the option to take up to 10 million doses a month. Doses that would have cost about 1/4th what the Sinovac vaccine did. And, just as an entirely irrelevant sidenote, Sinovac has had legal problems due to charges of bribery.

11 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

India was and is the biggest producer of vaccines in the world and is at the forefront of vaccine production and has been way before Covid. Maybe because of this, they have special status or a different status or agreement to Thailand. Maybe, India's existing framework of rules and regulations regarding vaccines, was used, I don't know.

 

What we do know is Thailand was selected to be the hub of production and distribution for South East Asian nations by Astra Zenica. The company, Siam Bio which was selected had never done a project like this before. They got the rights to produce Astra Zenica under license with various, and a huge number of conditions attached.

 

It was made very clear at the time and based on the Thai governments needs and forecasts what they would and could produce, what was for domestic use and what was for other neighbors in the region, and what was for Covax programmes and other uses.

 

Also, bearing in mind, vaccines are being group bought under the Covax scheme, also under varied and different bilateral agreements, some for profit others for humanitarian reasons, and so forth. These agreements differ by which country is purchasing as do the terms and conditions.

 

One thing is for sure, if India was breaking international agreements on production it will come out just like any other country, if it is in breach.

 

It wasn't so long ago the EU was trying to blackmail, sue and pressurize Astra Zenica in the rollout saying they were giving the UK special treatment, and when documents were produced that differed, it seems to have gone quiet.

 

When this is over, there will be a reckoning and that includes where the virus actually originated and who dropped the ball..

 

10 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Its the same.  India had international agreements and broke them and the world understood because people were dying.  They were supposed to be a hub of production.  Same will be for Thailand if the powers that be can give up the tea money that comes with international sales.  No-one will think the worse of Thailand.  These are extraordinary times.  In any case I posted my original post with reference to India as a precedent.  I felt your rebuttal was harsh given my reference to an identical precedent.  

The case of India was particular as the true issue was that it wasn't able to produce the intended quantities. The reason was that the US blocked exports of all vaccines and vaccine components at that time. So it did not really divert vaccine production, just prioritised what it was able to produce due to the US embargo. 

7 hours ago, placnx said:

It's been reported that Sinovac is more expensive than AZ.

Sinovac is a lot more expensive.

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Sinovac is a lot more expensive.

In other words a Chinese scam!

10 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Its the same.  India had international agreements and broke them and the world understood because people were dying.  They were supposed to be a hub of production.  Same will be for Thailand if the powers that be can give up the tea money that comes with international sales.  No-one will think the worse of Thailand.  These are extraordinary times.  In any case I posted my original post with reference to India as a precedent.  I felt your rebuttal was harsh given my reference to an identical precedent.  

 

That's an interesting point. Thailand could certainly use India's actions as a bargaining tool. "Let us keep more of our production, or we'll stop exporting just like India did.".

 

Now that the rush to vaccinate the Europe and North America has ended, demand for AZ vaccine must have slowed considerably. But the factories are still churning it out 24/7. Who are these new supplies going to? Thailand could use their status as SE Asia's AZ supplier to negotiate for some European manufactured vaccines.

9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

You do know who pwns the courts, don't you?

Yes I know, and I also know who owns Siambioscience.

If Prayut tried to stop the contracted exports out of Thailands facility and AZ took them both to court I don't think Prayut would be the winner.

21 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

All but two (2) shares are owned by the CPB. The Chairman (Air Chief Marshal Satitpong Sukvimol) owns one (1) share, and some senior retired RTP official owns one (1) share. I assume three is the minimum required.

 

 

I had that idea but there are things we can not talk about on this site.

Under international law any country can prohibit the export of anything whatsoever. The EU did exactly this with no repercussions

56 minutes ago, RobU said:

Under international law any country can prohibit the export of anything whatsoever. The EU did exactly this with no repercussions

The case of the EU was similar to the case of India and different from the current case of Thailand. In India or in the EU, the suppliers were not supplying the scheduled quantities, so priority measures have been implemented. In Thailand, the supplier is effectively providing the ordered quantities, and even more than ordered.

7 hours ago, RobU said:

Under international law any country can prohibit the export of anything whatsoever. The EU did exactly this with no repercussions

AZ can move its production somewhere else to fulfill their contracts. 

7 hours ago, club said:

AZ can move its production somewhere else to fulfill their contracts. 

Yes they can set up another factory somewhere else but there would be no business reason to stop producing in Thailand since AZ  would still be paid for what they produce by Thailand It can take months, even years to set up a production plant

18 minutes ago, RobU said:

Yes they can set up another factory somewhere else but there would be no business reason to stop producing in Thailand since AZ  would still be paid for what they produce by Thailand It can take months, even years to set up a production plant

 

18 minutes ago, RobU said:

Yes they can set up another factory somewhere else but there would be no business reason to stop producing in Thailand since AZ  would still be paid for what they produce by Thailand It can take months, even years to set up a production plant

AZ gets much more money from the Asian countries then just Thailand. They also produce more vaccines for other countries. 60% of what AZ produces to Thailand's 40%. Thailand also gets a price break because its produced here in Thailand. It took 2 months not years to put that plant together in Thailand. I am sure their are other Asian countries that could do it faster. This all falls back on Thailand not negotiating for enough vaccines. Now they want AZ to break their contract with other countries  

7 hours ago, club said:

 

AZ gets much more money from the Asian countries then just Thailand. They also produce more vaccines for other countries. 60% of what AZ produces to Thailand's 40%. Thailand also gets a price break because its produced here in Thailand. It took 2 months not years to put that plant together in Thailand. I am sure their are other Asian countries that could do it faster. This all falls back on Thailand not negotiating for enough vaccines. Now they want AZ to break their contract with other countries  

What is your point? I repeat. There is no valid business case for closing the AZ operation in Thailand because AZ will be paid for every vaccine produced there, although there may be a business case for opening another production plant in another country, or ramping up operations at another plant if Thailand stops exporting the AZ vaccine

9 hours ago, RobU said:

What is your point? I repeat. There is no valid business case for closing the AZ operation in Thailand because AZ will be paid for every vaccine produced there, although there may be a business case for opening another production plant in another country, or ramping up operations at another plant if Thailand stops exporting the AZ vaccine

What good that do other countries are being shorted on vaccines because Thailand wants more? Thailand is not the only country with a Covid problem. That's my point

17 minutes ago, club said:

What good that do other countries are being shorted on vaccines because Thailand wants more? Thailand is not the only country with a Covid problem. That's my point

You are not making sense. All I said originally was that under international law any country can stop the export of any product. You implied that AZ should therefore move production to another country and stop producing in Thailand. I said there is no valid business case for them to do so because they will still get paid for everything they produce. No company in the world would shut down an expensively setup profit making enterprise because there is a shortage of the product it makes, the whole aim of any company is to make money. Your logic is flawed

2 minutes ago, RobU said:

You are not making sense. All I said originally was that under international law any country can stop the export of any product. You implied that AZ should therefore move production to another country and stop producing in Thailand. I said there is no valid business case for them to do so because they will still get paid for everything they produce. No company in the world would shut down an expensively setup profit making enterprise because there is a shortage of the product it makes, the whole aim of any company is to make money. Your logic is flawed

You could really care less that other countries could be shorted for vaccines Because Thailand didn't order enough. Its telling because you haven't mentioned it. You must work for the Thai government. 

6 minutes ago, club said:

You could really care less that other countries could be shorted for vaccines Because Thailand didn't order enough. Its telling because you haven't mentioned it. You must work for the Thai government. 

I don't think you actually live in Thailand or have any connection to this country you are a troll looking for an argument. Your argument is an emotive bundle of contradictory statements.  Because if you lived there you would be considering this as a distasteful but valid option to protect friends and family. You obviously are not concerned for your own safety or the safety of others in Thailand because you don't live there, you have probably been vaccinated already in your own country. I'll give you a clue I am not in Thailand either. I can't get back yet, but I have loved ones and friends who I am concerned about. Your argument is totally pointless. I repeat, IF the Thai government chooses to restrict export of the AZ vaccine, there is no logical business case for AZ to close the plant in Thailand and the Thai government is entitled under international law to ban the export of any product it sees fit.