American Citizen Services confirms they will not assist Americans seeking vaccines in Thailand

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, macnmotion said:

The reason your logic doesn't hold is because this isn't business as usual, this is an extraordinary situation.

 

Actually, the Government has no more duty to care for their health than they would if they were working in the US. This is not a "Government Program" that provided vaccines to embassy workers, this was the State Department choosing to use public funds to vaccinate their employees. No program. This was a management decision. I'm sure that every one of these embassy workers has health insurance supplied by the State Department which works just as well as my insurance in Thai hospitals, and they would be treated just the same as me when they attempted to sign up for a vaccine. While I can only guess, I would bet that there is nothing in their employment contracts about vaccines being shipped to them overseas during a pandemic (or any vaccine for that matter). They are certainly vaccinated as required before departing the US depending on where they are heading, but surely you can't think the State Department is sending annual flu vaccines to employees around the world, or dengue vaccines if there is a local outbreak. They rely on local medical care just as we do -- except during this pandemic.

 

Are you suggesting that if an Embassy employee had a heart attack here that the US would fly in a surgeon and nursing team to take care of them? Of course not. Same if they were posted in the US -- their insurance would cover their care, not the State Department.

 

Calling this a government employee benefit likens this to giving them a car or health insurance as a benefit of employment. That is not what this was. This was preferential and self serving use of public funds to provide vaccines to a selected group of Americans overseas while ignoring the rest.

Good luck with your mission, let us know how it goes.

[macnmotion]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Good luck with your mission, let us know how it goes.

Thanks. Most change has begun with just a few voices. Fortunately there are not just a few voices, there is quite a chorus in countries around the world.

[TheCowboy]

 

Quote

This is not a "Government Program" that provided vaccines to embassy workers, this was the State Department choosing to use public funds to vaccinate their employees. No program. 

Actually, Operation Warp Speed bought hundreds of millions of doses, which the federal government distributes for free (often adding funding to manage vaccination programs).  The Dep't of Health & Human Services allocates shots to 5 federal agencies -- State, Defense, VA, Prisons, and Indian Affairs -- using the same formula used for distribution to the states and territories.   Some details are provided here: 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/8212dd93-959d-40ad-ab52-87dc05fbe0ad

“The department is one of several federal agencies receiving vaccine allotments due to our national security mandate,”  (Anthony Blinken, Sec. of State) ... 
The Department of Health and Human Services said it allocates a percentage of available vaccine doses weekly to five federal entities, including the state and defence departments, proportional to the adult population of each.

 

[James26]

Don't feel bad. The Department of State cannot guarantee the safety and/or evacuation of our fellow Americans trapped in Afghanistan.
USA = failed country.

Edited August 18, 2021 by James26

[Emdog]

ACS (American Citizen Services) may consider their "service" mainly focuses on funeral services info... the ACS website lists a number of Thai companies that handle remains, etc

Anyone have numbers of Thai workers at US embassy? US embassy workers?

State department tells us US expats to "depend on local resources". Gee, wonder why they didn't say that to the Thai staff?

[macnmotion]

40 minutes ago, TheCowboy said:

 

Actually, Operation Warp Speed bought hundreds of millions of doses, which the federal government distributes for free (often adding funding to manage vaccination programs).  The Dep't of Health & Human Services allocates shots to 5 federal agencies -- State, Defense, VA, Prisons, and Indian Affairs -- using the same formula used for distribution to the states and territories.   Some details are provided here: 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/8212dd93-959d-40ad-ab52-87dc05fbe0ad

“The department is one of several federal agencies receiving vaccine allotments due to our national security mandate,”  (Anthony Blinken, Sec. of State) ... 
The Department of Health and Human Services said it allocates a percentage of available vaccine doses weekly to five federal entities, including the state and defence departments, proportional to the adult population of each.

 

"Proportional to the adult population of each." However, vaccines were given to family members and personal staff of foreign service workers around the world as well.

 

A bipartisan letter penned by Senators Chris Murphy and Jerry Moran was sent to Secretary of State Anthony Blinken in June asking him to take concrete steps to vaccinate the 9 million Americans living abroad. You can read it here:

 

https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/vaccinating_amcits_letter.pdf

[khunjeff]

4 hours ago, macnmotion said:

Actually, the Government has no more duty to care for their health than they would if they were working in the US.

From the Foreign Service Act of 1980:

 

22 U.S. Code § 4084 - Health care program

 

(a) Establishment

The Secretary of State shall establish a health care program to promote and maintain the physical and mental health of members of the Service, and (when incident to service abroad) other designated eligible Government employees, and members of the families of such members and employees.

 

4 hours ago, macnmotion said:

Are you suggesting that if an Embassy employee had a heart attack here that the US would fly in a surgeon and nursing team to take care of them? Of course not. Same if they were posted in the US -- their insurance would cover their care, not the State Department.

(d) Costs of treatment

If an individual eligible for health care under this section incurs an illness, injury, or medical condition which requires treatment while assigned to a post abroad or located overseas pursuant to Government authorization, the Secretary may pay the cost of such treatment.

[LNKDES1]

19 hours ago, macnmotion said:

ACS (American Citizen Services) replied to me today. First they summarized the automated email, telling me that they do not interfere with the Thai government's disbursment of the vaccines. When I replied that they need to do something, as vaccines aren't going where they are supposed to, and an American died here on August 9th from COVID, I received this reply:

---

These policies come from the highest level of U.S. Government in Washington, DC and congressional representatives are aware of these policies. The U.S. Government does not provide health care for U.S. citizens overseas. The Embassy has been in contact with the Thai Government regarding the Pfizer vaccines, however, ultimately, they will decide on the distribution of the vaccine.

---

We all know that workers at the US Embassy in Bangkok received Pfizer vaccines months ago sent to them by the US Government, thanks to an employee posting a photo of their Pfizer certificate online (see attached photo). So in fact the US Government DOES provide healthcare services for US citizens overseas. They have just arbitrarily decided that some Americans overseas are more deserving of a vaccine than others. It is exactly this type of arbitrary and self serving behavior of the Executive Branch for which we have Congressional oversight. 

 

I will continue to pursue this by continuing my discussions with my Congressman's office. I will also reach out to media outlets in the States looking for a story. I encourage all Americans who are facing the same problems to write their member of Congress and demand oversight.

What is the mission of the US Embassy?

• The mission of the United States Embassy is to advance the interests of the United States, and to serve and protect U.S. citizens.

By refusing to help administer vaccines to their citizens, I sure don't see a lot of 'protecting' going on.

 

Sure, we could all jump on a flight back to the U.S. (approx $1500 USD round trip), self quarantine for 7-10 days after negative test (that will run approx $500 USD), get 2 jabs of Pfizer/Moderna approx one month apart (that additional stay is going to cost, say  $1500 USD), fly back into Thailand and be forced to quarantine in State approved ASQ facilities in deep red zones ($1000-2000 USD depending on your choice of luxury). We're talking a minimum of $4500 USD. There's roughly 40,000 US expats here in Thailand. Conservatively speaking, that comes out to $180,000,000 USD. Am I missing something here? Come on U.S. State Department. We're tax paying American citizens. Step up to the plate and do your job. Protect your citizens!

[khunjeff]

1 hour ago, Emdog said:

State department tells us US expats to "depend on local resources". Gee, wonder why they didn't say that to the Thai staff?

Because they want to maintain continuity of operations, so the staff doesn't all fall sick and leave the embassy unable to fulfill its functions? This is the same reason that for many years they have provided annual influenza vaccinations to local staff at embassies and consulates, even though they're under no obligation to do so.

[Aussieroaming]

17 hours ago, mojaco said:

My British friend had opportunity yesterday to sign up for Astrazeneca being supplied by the British consulate in Chiang Mai.  So sad that the USA doesn't do the same.

So I wonder why the British Embassy in Bangkok worn't intercede or offer any vaccine assistance. 

[wwest5829]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:24 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Be careful what you set it in motion.

 

The distribution to other nations by the Biden administration of vaccines has been a clear foreign policy win, that alone will earn the distribution enemies on one side of the house.

 

In addition to which isolationists on that same side of the house are always looking for reasons to cut foreign aid.

 

The US has, as stated, has not tied strings to this donation but also as stated the RTG has made commitments to provide vaccines to all residents of Thailand, this agreement was clearly in place at the time of the arrival of the vaccine at Suvarnabhumi (refer text of ACS statement).

 

The absence of overt ‘strings’ does not mean agreements were not made prior to the delivery. 

 

Omitting overt ‘strings’ recognizes Thailand’s sovereignty and the sovereignty of the RTG, something we all know to be a matter of hyper sensitivity amongst our hosts.

 

The ACS advice is good, keep applying, you won’t get a Pfizer vaccine with your name on it by any other means.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. I am still awaiting an appointment for the Pfizer vaccine in Chiang Mai but have not given up hope that I will be contacted this week

[wwest5829]

35 minutes ago, LNKDES1 said:

What is the mission of the US Embassy?

• The mission of the United States Embassy is to advance the interests of the United States, and to serve and protect U.S. citizens.

By refusing to help administer vaccines to their citizens, I sure don't see a lot of 'protecting' going on.

 

Sure, we could all jump on a flight back to the U.S. (approx $1500 USD round trip), self quarantine for 7-10 days after negative test (that will run approx $500 USD), get 2 jabs of Pfizer/Moderna approx one month apart (that additional stay is going to cost, say  $1500 USD), fly back into Thailand and be forced to quarantine in State approved ASQ facilities in deep red zones ($1000-2000 USD depending on your choice of luxury). We're talking a minimum of $4500 USD. There's roughly 40,000 US expats here in Thailand. Conservatively speaking, that comes out to $180,000,000 USD. Am I missing something here? Come on U.S. State Department. We're tax paying American citizens. Step up to the plate and do your job. Protect your citizens!

I await a Pfizer appointment in Chiang Mai as an American aged 74 with heart issues but … I could only imagine the reaction of the minority party in Congress at the State Department setting a precedent of providing “Medicare for All” overseas Americans. I will continue to lobby for Medicare global coverage on the same basis as fully retired military is given.

[Emdog]

1 hour ago, khunjeff said:

Because they want to maintain continuity of operations, so the staff doesn't all fall sick and leave the embassy unable to fulfill its functions? This is the same reason that for many years they have provided annual influenza vaccinations to local staff at embassies and consulates, even though they're under no obligation to do so.

Right, I get that. I suppose keeping taxpayers alive doesn't cross their minds... taxes and borrowing is needed to "maintain continuity of operations". Maybe they ran the numbers and figured what ever is lost in taxes would be more than made up in not having to pay social security benefits...

[jesimps]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:34 PM, macnmotion said:

Thanks for your advice but the only website I qualify on as an American, under 60 without one of 7 underlying conditions just assigned me Sinovac. And for the record, not that it makes any difference, I'm a registered democrat as is my representative. Oversight is oversight -- it's not a political agenda. And are you suggesting that agreements may have been made prior to delivery that assured Americans would receive Sinovac as their vaccine? This, while back office workers at a major Bangkok hospital who work in a different building were given Pfizer as a booster dose (I work directly with the hospital and know this for a fact)?

 

I'm more than happy to set in motion oversight in plain sight. 

If you can't take a joke, don't become a Democrat, Some people like to be twice shy, obviously.

[RocketDog]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:24 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

The absence of overt ‘strings’ does not mean agreements were not made prior to the delivery. 

Perhaps so, but it also doesn't mean that the RTG made any such commitment or wouid honor it if they did. Remember the cold War "trust but verify" motto? And handing over 5mil in cash to the demonstrably corrupt military junta is simply madness.

 

You and others have made such arguments before, but to me they are not compelling and represent wish thinking. In any event, they are not helpful speculations.

We have enough such groundless speculation going around as it is, as well as outright lies from the very same RTG you propose trusting.

What is very clear is the US government has made no bona fide effort to aid taxpaying expats in Thailand. That is a fact, not speculation. Putting lipstick on a pig changes nothing.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Emdog said:

Right, I get that. I suppose keeping taxpayers alive doesn't cross their minds... taxes and borrowing is needed to "maintain continuity of operations". Maybe they ran the numbers and figured what ever is lost in taxes would be more than made up in not having to pay social security benefits...

I suspect they just recognized the sovereignty of Thailand and the RTG.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Perhaps so, but it also doesn't mean that the RTG made any such commitment or wouid honor it if they did. Remember the cold War "trust but verify" motto? And handing over 5mil in cash to the demonstrably corrupt military junta is simply madness.

 

You and others have made such arguments before, but to me they are not compelling and represent wish thinking. In any event, they are not helpful speculations.

We have enough such groundless speculation going around as it is, as well as outright lies from the very same RTG you propose trusting.

What is very clear is the US government has made no bona fide effort to aid taxpaying expats in Thailand. That is a fact, not speculation. Putting lipstick on a pig changes nothing.

 

And yet many expats have received Pfizer vaccines under the RTG commitments the ACS Press release refers to.

[oslooskar]

22 hours ago, macnmotion said:

The U.S. Government does not provide health care for U.S. citizens overseas.

I would be willing to accept that if not for the fact that the U.S. Government is providing health care for millions of foreign nationals overseas.

[Knocker33]

Trump would have looked after you. Does Biden know where Thailand is. He probably thinks it's already part of China

[thailand49]

Seem you are a bit off target, you are a few months back on your update. If you are an American just contact Medpark or log on to Thailandintervac. com if you want the pfizer just click Medpark and register if you don't get a respond in a day or two go directly to FB and send them a messenger message stating your name passport number your age. When you ask for ACS help this is the help they have given with their donation of 1.5 million doses as far as I know they are still taking registration a guy just posted his experience today!  If I'm right get off the topic and use your time to register if you want the pfizer.

 

As far as I'm aware as a American Citizen you do not need to be vaccinated if you want to go back to the U.S. just take 72 hour before Covid Test when you get back to the U.S. just walk into a Walgreen, Costco and get your shot, if in a hurry for verification get the J&J first!  Good luck!

[oslooskar]

19 hours ago, mojaco said:

My British friend had opportunity yesterday to sign up for Astrazeneca being supplied by the British consulate in Chiang Mai.  So sad that the USA doesn't do the same.

They might do the same if you embarrass them.

 

[macnmotion]

4 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Seem you are a bit off target, you are a few months back on your update. If you are an American just contact Medpark or log on to Thailandintervac. com if you want the pfizer just click Medpark and register if you don't get a respond in a day or two go directly to FB and send them a messenger message stating your name passport number your age. When you ask for ACS help this is the help they have given with their donation of 1.5 million doses as far as I know they are still taking registration a guy just posted his experience today!  If I'm right get off the topic and use your time to register if you want the pfizer.

 

As far as I'm aware as a American Citizen you do not need to be vaccinated if you want to go back to the U.S. just take 72 hour before Covid Test when you get back to the U.S. just walk into a Walgreen, Costco and get your shot, if in a hurry for verification get the J&J first!  Good luck!

I'm under 60 with no underlying conditions. Medpark will not vaccinate me, I'm not months out of date. And yes I can enter the USA and get vaccinated but until I'm vaccinated I'm not going anywhere my 86 year old mother. Pretty much makes such a trip pointless. Thanks though. 

[oslooskar]

5 hours ago, James26 said:

USA = failed country.

Democrats in power = Deadbeat Government.

[The Theory]

I'm not surprised at all. We are all just expired US citizens who are holding US passport. 

[Venom]

24 minutes ago, The Theory said:

I'm not surprised at all. We are all just expired US citizens who are holding US passport. 

..and paying taxes! 

[itsari]

23 hours ago, RubbaJohnny said:

I realize it's a hard pill to swallow but white wealthy expat Americans are being treated as second class. It does have a major upside thay will not need a mandatory critical race theory attitude adjustment cert to re enter, the fact that embassies and other tax funded agents have no interets compassion or care for their fellow citizens is teh new norm.

 

Sauve qui peut!

White wealthy expats ? I really am surprised to read that. That comment  should stay in America

[couchpotato]

53 minutes ago, The Theory said:

I'm not surprised at all. We are all just expired US citizens who are holding US passport. 

Get real here..You left your own country for greener pastures, so why should the US Govt give you preferential treatment over people still at home. 

[koele2]

US embassy here says they are here to support Americans for medical emergencies.  Doesn’t this covid crisis qualify as a medical emergency?  You cannot speak to anyone at the embassy, it’s all automated.  What exactly do they do here?  I suspect there are more CIA officers stationed here to monitor the drug trade in the golden triangle than there are actual diplomats.  The American diplomats don’t care about the American expats here.  

[macnmotion]

13 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

give you preferential treatment

And by "preferential" you mean "equal," right?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Knocker33 said:

Trump would have looked after you. Does Biden know where Thailand is. He probably thinks it's already part of China

Biden seems to have managed to get the delivery address right, and for those of us who have received our Pfizer shot with the second scheduled, he’s definitely looked after us.

 

Thank you Joe.