Doctor tenders resignation after giving her sister extra jab - health official apologizes too

[hanuman2543]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I doesn't say that it was a full dose.

Do you have anything useful to contribute to the discussion other than your nitpicking?

Edited August 17, 2021 by hanuman2543

[cyril sneer]

I thought this would be the bare minimum for any doctor helping people they know in Thailand

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

i just say its a minor crime

Major or minor crime, she knew what she was doing was wrong. And she broke her ethical code. 

[trainman34014]

Tip of the Iceberg no doubt; you can bet a lot of good stuff has been pumped into 'important people' !

[trainman34014]

31 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Major or minor crime, she knew what she was doing was wrong. And she broke her ethical code. 

Ethics are for Farang not Thai's; they don't know the meaning of the word !

[Paradise Pete]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So in reality we can get 7 dosses out of a bottle?

Why are we not already doing that?

No. It's 5 using a common syringe and 6 using a specific syringe. This 7th dose was surely less than a proper full dose, and really there should have been close to nothing left.

[Nojohndoe]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

She stole the vaccine. Pure and simple.

Or did  not waste ? In the US Doctors have found that some  vials of Pfizer with a nominal 5 shot content can yield 6. In the interest of  commercialism is there some obligation to dump that extra?

In this case if a doctor finds that an accumulation of residual vaccine per vial can yield an extra shot  then is there not an ethical question to be considered in wasting it in face of the  declare emergency of the pandemic ? Or even that it was not administered according to what has been shown to very dubious adherence to criteria?

Unless there is evidence that in order to obtain this extra  shot of  vaccine that the previous 6 were shorted then rather than be forced to resign  perhaps she should be congratulated in her medical ethic initiative to maximize the resources available? Who loses?

The scenario reminds me of a  Mr Coleman of who once declared "I did not get wealthy from my  mustard  product that people eat but by the amount they leave on their plate" !

If in the reverse sense people die because of waste of viable vaccine due to the dictate of contrived commercialism and bureacratic subjugation to that then we are all sheep awaiting slaughter !

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

7 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

So basically she used what would have otherwise been thrown away. Why not reward her for coming up with a way to provide 20% more vaccines from same amount of imports?

Or could it be that she reduced each other persons dose from that bottle to give her sister a shot.

 

Fact of the matter is she crossed the line putting her sister before others on the list who need it most, should she be punished, yes, she showed utter contempt for those on the list needing it more than her sister, remember here, she is a Doctor, a person who is supposed to be a professional and to treat those who need treatment, her sister pushed in, ok, she f'up as small as it maybe in the eyes of other forum members, this is more than likely not an isolated case, and we only know of the sister being jabbed, could she have jabbed others not on the list, who knows, why stop at one, remembering the Thai status thing.

 

It is what it is, it happened, she got caught, she took the risk, now she has to pay the price, probably a slap on the wrist, with a big Kowtoe and everything will be back to normal, typical Thai style, will it send a message to others, I doubt it, oh by the way, has anyone seen any Pfizer for us farangs who registered....LOL   

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[vangrop]

indeed it is possible to extract 7 doses. To have a secority margin the lab advices 6 doses per vial. In Belgium a mayor was caught prioritizing relatives in the vaccination queue. Ended up like a storm in a glass of water. I think she was blacklisted for something else and they found peanuts to disgrace her. But was someone aside to count the doses? Strange story.

[andersonat]

The "Official" (European) Rules regarding the dregs left in the vial:-

From the European Medicines Agency ...      https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/extra-dose-vials-comirnaty-covid-19-vaccine

Extra dose from vials of Comirnaty (Pfizer) COVID-19 vaccine

News 08/01/2021

EMA’s human medicines committee (CHMP) has recommended updating the  product information for Comirnaty to clarify that each vial contains 6 doses of the vaccine.

In order to extract six doses from a single vial, low dead-volume syringes and/or needles should be used. The low dead-volume syringe and needle combination should have a dead volume of no more than 35 microliters. If standard syringes and needles are used, there may not be enough of the vaccine to extract a sixth dose from a vial.

If the amount of vaccine remaining in the vial after the fifth dose cannot provide a full dose (0.3 ml), the healthcare professional must discard the vial and its contents. There should be no pooling from multiple vials to make up a full dose, and any unused vaccine should be discarded 6 hours after dilution.

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

The article said that she used the dregs in the bottle after 6 doses, it didn't say that it was a full dose. It's unlikely that a six-dose bottle will hold exactly six doses, there's bound to be some extra to allow for evaporation, waste etc.   If there wasn't that extra there wouldn't necessarily be six complete doses in the bottle.

Evaporation? From a sealed bottle?

Must explain how my bottle of Double Black keeps going down ????

[MrJ2U]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Doesn't seem that big a deal to me.

When are they going to ask Anutin to resign for failing to procure vaccinations for all the population?

So right on!

[new2here]

To me, I think the real issue is what appears to be (the article is a little light on hard facts) that the doctor gave the jab to a relative…

 

Given the state of the pandemic, i do think that speed in administering the jabs is a huge priority — but so is order..

To me, I don’t have an issue with the doctors family (or anyone with whom there is any social/financial connection) getting the “left over” jab….  SO LONG AS… 1) It was disclosed, in advance, in writing, to the management team that the recipient would a family member, 2) proper approval was given in advance, 3) every reasonable opportunity was taken to give it to someone UNrelated and who met the then-priority schedule, and 4) there as no attempt to manipulate the process explicitly so that a “left over” unit was created to then be given to the family member.

 

I also agree that there are probably many others- higher up the chain- who’ve done the same, or worse… but… that then, to me, does not translate into a case where those that commit these offenses, but may be “lower” down, get some kind of “free pass” … just because people above them have done/are doing it, but haven’t yet been sanctioned. 

 

[Stargeezr]

If this doctor used the excess vaccine that remained in the vial, and likely used some in a second vial to make up the proper amount

then she did not really do anything wrong. It is known that there is excess vaccine in the vials when 6 shots have been with drawn.

  My family member here in Canada has told me this a few times, and she has even taken the final dregs and gave a fellow nurse 

who had been on holidays and missed the shot.  Some people on the forum seem to think that they are the traffic cops of the

health industry and want to fire anyone who even uses a q tip improperly. What a sad bunch of people they are.

  In my opinion for sure.

Geezer

[Cake Monster]

17 hours ago, robblok said:

No its not but she got extra shots out of the dosages used it for family. I don't think its a huge crime compared with what the government has done.

if this goes unpunished, then it will leave the Doors wide open for any Doctor to make up their own rules on who does, or does not get a vaccination.

A very thin edge to a very sharp wedge

[RJRS1301]

17 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

if this goes unpunished, then it will leave the Doors wide open for any Doctor to make up their own rules on who does, or does not get a vaccination.

A very thin edge to a very sharp wedge

The thin edge of the wedge always must be acknowledged; however. as opposed to finishing a career in medicine mid pandemic, counselling and ethics as well as clinical supervision for a period of time could prove more efficacious in behavioural/professional conduct.

 

 

[Cake Monster]

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

The thin edge of the wedge always must be acknowledged; however. as opposed to finishing a career in medicine mid pandemic, counselling and ethics as well as clinical supervision for a period of time could prove more efficacious in behavioural/professional conduct.

 

 

Whilst I agree with you mostly, Counselling, Ethics, and Clinical Supervision are possibly not an option here in Thailand.

This is the second such incident of this nature Today, and if it is not stamped upon hard, then God only knows what the end result would be in terms of Patient Safety Etc.

I am also inclined to think that there may be more to the 7 shots from a 6 dose Vial of Vaccine side of the story.

[Bluespunk]

20 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

As a doctor she broke her ethical code and should lose her right to practice medicine.  Let this go and they'll all be doing it.

If every doctor can safely get an extra and viable shot out of the six shot vials then I say bravo, go for it.

If it is possible to extract a viable dose and is safe to do so that is. 
 

Though not just for the benefit of relatives of course. 
 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Bluespunk
Missing word

[Liverpool Lou]

18 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Evaporation? From a sealed bottle?

Once it's opened it's not sealed.   Evaporation was just one possible aspect that I referenced.

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, hanuman2543 said:

Do you have anything useful to contribute to the discussion other than your nitpicking?

Do you?    FYI, you're not in control of other members comments.

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, 1duckyboy said:

 

 

If she administered the prior six doses from the bottle knowing her mother would get the remaining vaccine, would you want to be one of those six prior persons?

Sure, why not?  What difference would it make to the previous people who received full vaccinations?

[RJRS1301]

31 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Once it's opened it's not sealed.   Evaporation was just one possible aspect that I referenced.

It is never opened, the rubber bung is held in place by an aluminium ring, the bung is pierced with a drawing up needle, each drawing up thru the bung is in different spot and the bung self seals.

The vial is never opened as such, it is punctured with a 21g drawing up needle

[Liverpool Lou]

22 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

It is never opened, the rubber bung is held in place by an aluminium ring, the bung is pierced with a drawing up needle, each drawing up thru the bung is in different spot and the bung self seals.

The vial is never opened as such, it is punctured with a 21g drawing up needle

As I said, possible evaporation was just one aspect, not the only one but I do bow to your greater knowledge.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[andersonat]

Some information re. "The Seventh Dose":-

 

 

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on Wednesday said that health officials may be able to obtain as many as seven doses of Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine from vials initially intended to hold just five. 

 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/530596-fda-says-pfizer-vaccine-supply-is-up-to-40-percent-higher-than-previously

 

 

[hanuman2543]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Do you?    FYI, you're not in control of other members comments.

My comment stands and I am happy to be not in control. Everybody is allowed to make a fool out of themselves.

[Liverpool Lou]

56 minutes ago, hanuman2543 said:

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Do you?    FYI, you're not in control of other members comments.

Everybody is allowed to make a fool out of themselves.

Indeed, that's your privilege.   Enjoy.

[Rookiescot]

6 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Once it's opened it's not sealed.   Evaporation was just one possible aspect that I referenced.

Obviously you do not know how these bottles work.

[Letseng]

This happened in Austria regularly. There were always "leftover" jabs for village mayors,local VIPs etc. Nobody resigned or felt the slightest bit embarrased.

[Damrongsak]

2 hours ago, Letseng said:

This happened in Austria regularly. There were always "leftover" jabs for village mayors,local VIPs etc. Nobody resigned or felt the slightest bit embarrased.

Where I'm at in the U.S., there would be "leftover" jabs because people missed appointments.  Many got shots because they were able to respond on short notice and get a shot at the end of the day. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:09 PM, RJRS1301 said:

The other shots may not have used Low Dead Space Syringe, which may account for the extra. 

Low Dead Space Syringes are more efficient. 

Fascinating stuff.