England adds Thailand and Montenegro to travel red list

[Tuvoc]

3 minutes ago, beano2274 said:

even using another country will not help, as you only transit there, your passport has no stamp for that country unless you physically go out of the Airport area. Then you are to follow the rules of that country, maybe Thailand is on their lists. And also your passport was scanned at your departure airport and also will be in the UK, this will then be spotted, and you are liable for a very expensive arrival in the UK

 

You need to stay 10 days there. Assuming as you say, that country does not have its own restrictions for arrivals from Thailand.

 

[GStewart70]

33 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

The UK is certainly honest in this pandemic, and also doing good work in terms of genome sequencing of Corona variants. However, you're living in la-la-land, if you believe the UK does 50% of global genome sequencing. The only way the UK can do any genome sequencing of coronaviruses at all is because it takes data from a European platform, GISAID, from which the UK copied most of its data on the variants it feeds into is own government system.

 

GISAID is hosted by the Federal Republic of Germany, and came about at the initiative of Peter Bogner, a German executive. To this day it is Germany that provides the technical means and hosting for GISAID. It was through GISAID that the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention shared the genome sequence of SARS Cov2.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GISAID

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01069-w

 

So whilst the UK could only establish its systems for genome sequencing thanks to the German-hosted GISAID from which the UK government sequencing site takes most data, it is true that the UK has taken a lead in Genome sequencing. However, already in January 2021 the German health ministry has to meet a requirement that 5% of all positive corona tests are gene sequenced. By comparison the UK also sequences 5-10%.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-sequencing-idUSKBN29J1KS

 

The real leader in gene sequencing of corona samples is in fact Denmark, not the UK.

 

A long winded way to say I'm right. Thanks.

Wall Street Journal has the UK doing 44% of global sequencing in January 2021.

I'm sure Europe has made a contribution.

I just wasn't aware they had.

[nkg]

5 hours ago, yimlitnoy said:

If fully vaccinated a trip to India, Goa for example, will save you money and add to your culture when coming back to the UK...

 

A holiday in India might not be so bad, to be fair to them their current reported infection rates are (surprisingly) much lower than Thailand and the UK.

 

10 days in Dubai or France could be a good choice for the less adventurous.

[nkg]

1 hour ago, beano2274 said:

even using another country will not help, as you only transit there, your passport has no stamp for that country unless you physically go out of the Airport area. Then you are to follow the rules of that country, maybe Thailand is on their lists. And also your passport was scanned at your departure airport and also will be in the UK, this will then be spotted, and you are liable for a very expensive arrival in the UK

 

 

Really? Anyone trying this would surely do some research before booking their tickets and travelling.

 

For instance:

 

Quote

 

Can I enter France?

If you are vaccinated

If you are vaccinated, you can travel to France with no restrictions linked to health conditions.

The measures applicable to vaccinated adults also apply to any minors accompanying them, whether they are vaccinated or not. You can therefore travel with your underage children, whether they are vaccinated or not, and they will not need to self-isolate. Unvaccinated children aged 12 and over will need to present a negative test result as described below.

 

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/#sommaire_1

 

France is on the amber list, so staying there for 10 days will mean that hotel quarantine is no longer required.

 

[Dont confuse me]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Scotland is currently  showing higher case numbers than say England and rising... schools went back there already.....

My point exactly, we've not seen the back of this!

[theoldgit]

3 hours ago, malthebluff said:

It was only a matter of time so I'm not surprised but with domestic travel not being allowed there will be a lot of people stuck here who need to get back as they cant get to an international airport in time to get back to the UK so going to be a costly £1750 quarantine 

£2,285 ????

[JustAnotherHun]

13 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

If EU member countries start adding Thailand to a block list it's going to get very difficult to get home.

 

 

Germany did already weeks ago

[falang1969]

Irrespective of whether you are fully vaxed or not, anyone arriving from a RED listed country has to quarantine in an approved hotel at the cost of GBP2285.00.

 

Being fully vaccinated is irrelevant.

 

Before, in AMBER we could self-isolate at a friends/relatives home or something for 10 days, that is now finished and replaced with compulsory quarantine as above!

 

Red list rules

What you must do if you have been in a country or territory on the red list in the 10 days before you arrive in England.

You must follow these rules even if you have been fully vaccinated.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by falang1969

[Jab Danger]

3 minutes ago, falang1969 said:

Irrespective of whether you are fully vaxed or not, anyone arriving from a RED listed country has to quarantine in an approved hotel at the cost of GBP2285.00 (plus the GBP195.00 day 2 and day 8 test package).

 

Being fully vaccinated is irrelevant.

 

Before, in AMBER we could self-isolate at a friends/relatives home or something for 10 days, that is now finished and replaced with compulsory quarantine as above!

 

Red list rules

What you must do if you have been in a country or territory on the red list in the 10 days before you arrive in England.

You must follow these rules even if you have been fully vaccinated.

 

 

UK keeping the flock local - why let them spend in other countries?

[bangon04]

5 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The monthly list for August has not been compiled yet but for the Month of July it was:

 

1.United States: 1,898 Arrivals

2.Thai Nationals: 1,853 Arrivals

3.The United Kingdom (UK): 1,654 Arrivals

4.Israel 1,580 Arrivals

5.German 889 Arrivals

6.France 888 Arrivals

7.UAE 606 Arrivals

8.Swiss 326 Arrivals,

9.Dutch 255 Arrivals

10.Australians 244 Arrivals

 

Total numbers arriving into the sandbox of all nationalities are also dwindling fast, yesterday on three flights only 156 arrivals. So yes I think this will have a huge impact.

so does the USA doesn't update its "Red List"  ever?

[Tanomazu]

2 hours ago, GStewart70 said:

A long winded way to say I'm right. Thanks.

Wall Street Journal has the UK doing 44% of global sequencing in January 2021.

I'm sure Europe has made a contribution.

I just wasn't aware they had.

 No, actually, almost everything you said was wrong.

 

For a start you said that the UK did 50% of global sequencing and Germany 3%. In fact what London-based mobile editor Joanna Sugden of the WSJ said in that WSJ article is that on Jan 29th 2021 the UK  had submitted 44% of genomes held in GISAID, Germany is not mentioned. However, you just quoted an out of date article. As of 27 August 2021, if you check the GISAID website you will see that there are 2.97 million sequences shared in GISAID. Of which the UK has contributed not 50%, not 44%, but a mere 24%.

 

https://www.gisaid.org/index.php?id=208

 

The UK has also been overtaken by the US now which has provided the largest number of genome sequences in absolute terms.

 

However, the UK's total only represents 11.1% of actual cases in the UK. By contrast Denmark has sequenced 44.9% of actual cases. New Zealand has sequenced 49.9% of all its cases, Australia has sequenced 54.4% of all its cases.

 

So to summarise, on GISAID, a German initiative by German excecutive Peter Bogner, which is hosted in Germany, it is the USA which has submitted the largest number of sequences in absolute terms, and Australia, New Zealand and Denmark have sequenced four to five times as many of their coronavirus cases. Therefore your claim that the UK is some kind of world leader in genome sequencing is simply wrong.

 

It was also wrong to state that Germany sequences 3% of GISAID variants. Germany has in fact submittted 5.29% of variants, and that despite the fact that only since January 2021 did Germany pass a law requiring that 5% of cases be sequenced. I can assure you that just as the UK was overtaken by the USA in the space of a few months in terms of sequences submitted, so will Germany submit more sequences than the UK in short space of time.

 

I would say, however, that the real stars are Denmark, Australia and New Zealand, who have sequenced in the region of 50% of their cases, whereas the UK has only managed 11%.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Tanomazu

[Tuvoc]

1 hour ago, falang1969 said:

Irrespective of whether you are fully vaxed or not, anyone arriving from a RED listed country has to quarantine in an approved hotel at the cost of GBP2285.00.

 

Being fully vaccinated is irrelevant.

 

Before, in AMBER we could self-isolate at a friends/relatives home or something for 10 days, that is now finished and replaced with compulsory quarantine as above!

 

Red list rules

What you must do if you have been in a country or territory on the red list in the 10 days before you arrive in England.

You must follow these rules even if you have been fully vaccinated.

 

 

Sure, but as stated several times, spending 10-11 days in an Amber country on the way back to the UK gets around this. No compulsory expensive quarantine and no self-isolation if you were fully vaccinated in the UK or a country acceptable to the UK.

 

[Fairynuff]

9 hours ago, Whale said:

I think it was Gordon Browns government if my memories are accurate? Selling everything to make the new labour deficit look less worse than it was. 

According to the Daily Fail.......

[DonniePeverley]

Is it okay to fly into Scotland ? Or is it the same rules - in which case the title should say United Kingdom. 

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

It's a bit like with Thailand, isn't it, few cases for a long time and then suddenly it erupts, despite the lockdowns from government.

Yes, I have a feeling it's going to look a lot more like Thailand regardless of what they do down there.

[malthebluff]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

£2,285 ????

Just read it's gone up funny how  prices never go down lol 

[Tanomazu]

8 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Yes, I have a feeling it's going to look a lot more like Thailand regardless of what they do down there.

Looks like all the efforts by the Australians are not preventing the spread of the virus.

 

Which rather puts the red list into perspective, if the stringent isolation of the Australians was unsuccessful, what benefit will the red list really bring for the UK?

[GStewart70]

1 hour ago, Tanomazu said:

 No, actually, almost everything you said was wrong.

 

For a start you said that the UK did 50% of global sequencing and Germany 3%. In fact what London-based mobile editor Joanna Sugden of the WSJ said in that WSJ article is that on Jan 29th 2021 the UK  had submitted 44% of genomes held in GISAID, Germany is not mentioned. However, you just quoted an out of date article. As of 27 August 2021, if you check the GISAID website you will see that there are 2.97 million sequences shared in GISAID. Of which the UK has contributed not 50%, not 44%, but a mere 24%.

 

https://www.gisaid.org/index.php?id=208

 

The UK has also been overtaken by the US now which has provided the largest number of genome sequences in absolute terms.

 

However, the UK's total only represents 11.1% of actual cases in the UK. By contrast Denmark has sequenced 44.9% of actual cases. New Zealand has sequenced 49.9% of all its cases, Australia has sequenced 54.4% of all its cases.

 

So to summarise, on GISAID, a German initiative by German excecutive Peter Bogner, which is hosted in Germany, it is the USA which has submitted the largest number of sequences in absolute terms, and Australia, New Zealand and Denmark have sequenced four to five times as many of their coronavirus cases. Therefore your claim that the UK is some kind of world leader in genome sequencing is simply wrong.

 

It was also wrong to state that Germany sequences 3% of GISAID variants. Germany has in fact submittted 5.29% of variants, and that despite the fact that only since January 2021 did Germany pass a law requiring that 5% of cases be sequenced. I can assure you that just as the UK was overtaken by the USA in the space of a few months in terms of sequences submitted, so will Germany submit more sequences than the UK in short space of time.

 

I would say, however, that the real stars are Denmark, Australia and New Zealand, who have sequenced in the region of 50% of their cases, whereas the UK has only managed 11%.

 

 

Thanks for spending the time and effort to write that thesis.

I lost interest after the first sentence.

[overherebc]

53 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

Is it okay to fly into Scotland ? Or is it the same rules - in which case the title should say United Kingdom. 

Most of the UK sites I've read state UK not just england

[Tanomazu]

Just now, GStewart70 said:

Thanks for spending the time and effort to write that thesis.

I lost interest after the first sentence.

Yes, I see you read the WSJ article with equal care and attention. Hence the need to correct your errors.

[GStewart70]

Just now, Tanomazu said:

Yes, I see you read the WSJ article with equal care and attention. Hence the need to correct your errors.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[RobU]

I am very surprised this didn't happen earlier

[cncltd1973]

15 hours ago, Thaiophil said:

As others have pointed out, as Thailand has effectively operated a red list policy for the whole of the rest of the world (2 weeks expensive hotel quarantine) and still does so even though delta is rampant, Thailand can hardly complain

Looks like evidence of karma, Thailand has become the dirty foreigner!

[ukrules]

8 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Which rather puts the red list into perspective, if the stringent isolation of the Australians was unsuccessful, what benefit will the red list really bring for the UK?

It slows it down, that's about it.

At this stage they want to slow it down. Why? I would imagine that it's all to do with reacting to what's inevitably going to come after a few months instead of a few weeks.

 

It's still coming, regardless of the quarantines, and yes - we're talking about full national lockdowns in response to new VOC outbreaks here.

[cyril sneer]

disgraceful price to quarantine 

 

why did the price go up? what kind of room do you get for that price? 

[bojo]

14 minutes ago, cyril sneer said:

disgraceful price to quarantine 

 

why did the price go up? what kind of room do you get for that price? 

And if you're female, there's always the chance that some nonsy security guard is gonna try his luck...outrageous behaviour playing on women's vulnerabilities and by the sound of it, never followed up or properly investigated............

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57609164

[Tuvoc]

The FCDO now advises against all but essential travel to Thailand, based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks.

 

Thailand travel advice - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

The FCDO advise against all but essential travel to the whole country.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Tuvoc

[GStewart70]

36 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

The FCDO now advises against all but essential travel to Thailand, based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks.

 

Thailand travel advice - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

The FCDO advise against all but essential travel to the whole country.

Quite scary when you see it in black and white.

I think invalidates insurance policies as well if you defy government travel restrictions.

And so the covid saga drags on and on and on.

[Tanomazu]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

It slows it down, that's about it.

At this stage they want to slow it down. Why? I would imagine that it's all to do with reacting to what's inevitably going to come after a few months instead of a few weeks.

 

It's still coming, regardless of the quarantines, and yes - we're talking about full national lockdowns in response to new VOC outbreaks here.

If we look at the 1918 pandemic, it played out in 4 waves. I pretty much expect a fourth wave still.

 

Then that should be it, hopefully, in terms of pandemic, even if it becomes a flu-like presence.

[Tuvoc]

53 minutes ago, GStewart70 said:

Quite scary when you see it in black and white.

I think invalidates insurance policies as well if you defy government travel restrictions.

And so the covid saga drags on and on and on.

Invalidates a normal travel insurance policy usually yes, but if it is an expat who is travelling they probably have an insurance policy in Thailand that covers them. And the Covid19 policies that you buy from Thai insurers for COE may cover you for all medical emergencies, not just Covid.

 

I think that FCDO advice is a bit extreme personally.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Tuvoc