Phuket Sandbox is failing foreign tourists: tourism official

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Eibot said:

I have no clue how you got "Let throw everything in the wind" out of that, but OK. 

Yes, Singapore would be a decent example. However, Israel might even be better. A fully vaccinated country that is still experience an "outbreak" compared to their previous numbers. Deaths are very minimal however. Vaccinations levels in Thailand are not there yet, in Phuket they very much should be getting towards the 60ish/70is %. Hence, we switch the approach. 

And Isreal has gone back into lockdowns... Increased restrictions.. Vaccine passport required for access to businesses.. 

The very example you want to use, is telling you the opposite of what your suggesting.

[Eibot]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

And Isreal has gone back into lockdowns... Increased restrictions.. Vaccine passport required for access to businesses.. 

The very example you want to use, is telling you the opposite of what your suggesting.

Lol. Israel has not gone into lockdowns...It has increased some restrictions the last few weeks, but is looking at hospitalizations rather than infected cases. Schools are opening again next week and the hospitalization rate is going down. Yes, a vaccine passport is required. I expect similar things to happen in Asia soon, and it works. 

Israel is the perfect example. Singapore has yet to deal with an outbreak in the vaccinated area but that will come with time. 

[Kopitiam]

8 hours ago, ChipButty said:

I have met a few sandboxers most of them have all said they were lead to believe everything was almost back to normal when they got here it was nothing like normal they felt conned into coming back, and then the no alcohol ban was the icing on the cake

Obviously, these people did not do due diligence before booking their holidays.

[Espanol]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:42 AM, smedly said:

I am surprised at the lack of knowledge and understanding they have of western tourists for some reason they got confused and thought they were Chinese that can be ferried around like lemings and generally ripped off 

They already know. 

That's the reason they don't want western tourists anymore and they are replacing them  with Chinese. 

[scorecard]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:30 PM, Mickeymaus said:

If they want to travel at Covid times it is naive to expect a normal holiday. On top of it they might have problems to travel back to their home countries because of changing regulations or even cancelled flights (we had all this already last year). And if they test positive for Covid in the foreign country it might get an unforgettable holiday experience... 

Sure, the regulations for any country can and will change quickly and often.

 

What else can anybody expect in a pandemic situation?

 

[Kopitiam]

1 hour ago, Eibot said:

Lol. Israel has not gone into lockdowns...It has increased some restrictions the last few weeks, but is looking at hospitalizations rather than infected cases. Schools are opening again next week and the hospitalization rate is going down. Yes, a vaccine passport is required. I expect similar things to happen in Asia soon, and it works. 

Israel is the perfect example. Singapore has yet to deal with an outbreak in the vaccinated area but that will come with time. 

Singapore is preparing it's citizens to deal with living with COVID-19.  All households are given free masks, free ATKs (6pcs), free oximeter so that the people can do self monitoring and protection with masks.  The government has even announced they are prepared to deal with 1000 COVID deaths within the next 2 years of opening (since the start of COVID until now, they have had 52 deaths).  They are going to treat it like normal influenza.  Many people die from influenza every year too.  This can only be achieved when you have a very high level of vaccinated population and a infrastructure to manage COVID-19.  Thailand and Phuket still have a long way to go.  I would love to see them achieving it too so that life can be back to "normal".

[steven100]

On 8/30/2021 at 9:58 AM, webfact said:

could not get a beer or a glass of wine. 

    ......    and .....  

 

On 8/30/2021 at 9:58 AM, webfact said:

told him that they had been conned into coming to Phuket. 

well I never   !       to think a Thai would con a tourist   !!     

[Eibot]

12 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

Singapore is preparing it's citizens to deal with living with COVID-19.  All households are given free masks, free ATKs (6pcs), free oximeter so that the people can do self monitoring and protection with masks.  The government has even announced they are prepared to deal with 1000 COVID deaths within the next 2 years of opening (since the start of COVID until now, they have had 52 deaths).  They are going to treat it like normal influenza.  Many people die from influenza every year too.  This can only be achieved when you have a very high level of vaccinated population and a infrastructure to manage COVID-19.  Thailand and Phuket still have a long way to go.  I would love to see them achieving it too so that life can be back to "normal".

Absolutely agree. Thailand has a long way to go, but Phuket is not far off. I have to say, the vaccination program happening now in Thailand has switched in to "decent" gear (not great but OK). Hopefully things are looking better November/December. 

[Albert Zweistein]

8 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

You don't need an invite to go to a bar.

Are you walking like John Wayne, yet?

Who is John Wayne ?

[LivinLOS]

6 hours ago, Eibot said:

Lol. Israel has not gone into lockdowns...It has increased some restrictions the last few weeks, but is looking at hospitalizations rather than infected cases. Schools are opening again next week and the hospitalization rate is going down. Yes, a vaccine passport is required. I expect similar things to happen in Asia soon, and it works. 

Israel is the perfect example. Singapore has yet to deal with an outbreak in the vaccinated area but that will come with time. 

The perfect example just had its record high cases today !! It also had near record high deaths in the top 10 days ever since the start. 

 

How is that the perfect example of how to handle it ?? This idea that because they are vaccinated people are not dying is simply not borne out by the facts. 

[sambum]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:11 PM, thailandheron said:

I dont know what parts of the island you visited but a friend has been there for months and he eats in western food restuarants once or twice everyday , with beer. Some he has to walk past because they are almost full and has to find a quieter one. So he is not the only person enjoying himself. Girlie bars open are easy to find too.

The point is - according to the law as it stands - they shouldn't be!

[Kopitiam]

29 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The perfect example just had its record high cases today !! It also had near record high deaths in the top 10 days ever since the start. 

 

How is that the perfect example of how to handle it ?? This idea that because they are vaccinated people are not dying is simply not borne out by the facts. 

Of total population, the vaccination rate of Isreal is not that high (60%).  Still a lot of people not vaccinated.

 

"About 60% of Israel’s 9.3 million residents have received two shots of the vaccine, including 80% of adults."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/31/israel-registers-record-daily-coronavirus-cases

 

Would be interesting to see what is going to happen in Singapore (80% of total population).

[impulse]

China, which accounted for about 70% of pre-Covid tourists, is locked down to international tourism.  Same with Aus and NZ.  Brits have to suffer 2 weeks of expensive quarantine if they return from Thailand.  Lots of tourists from other countries are afraid to travel on airplanes at all.

 

Thailand could throw the doors wide open to anyone and everyone, open the bars and beaches, and give away free happy endings, and they'd still be having a lousy year.  For the most part, it's out of their control.  80% of their tourist base is locked out from the other end.

Hopefully, they'll take the feedback to heart, adjust the policies to address some of the complaints, and things will look better when Europe, N America, and north China get bone chilling cold.  High season.  In the meantime, they've shown that vaccinated, repeatedly tested tourists are the safest customers in Thailand. 

 

Good start...  We'll see if they learn.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by impulse

[Eibot]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

The perfect example just had its record high cases today !! It also had near record high deaths in the top 10 days ever since the start. 

 

How is that the perfect example of how to handle it ?? This idea that because they are vaccinated people are not dying is simply not borne out by the facts. 

Again, you're looking at active cases and not the hospitalization rate;
Israel times;

"After surpassing 700 concurrent serious cases earlier this week, Health Ministry data on Friday showed there were 689 patients hospitalized in serious condition, in what appeared to be the start of a decline in the country’s fourth virus wave."
-
" Eran Segal, a COVID expert and one of the top government advisers to the coronavirus cabinet, said the rate of serious cases out of all new infections dropped from around 2 percent to 1.4% in recent days."

"The new record appeared to be the product of the worsening outbreak combined with more tests being conducted this month than in the past, when the rate of positive results was at times significantly higher than it is now.

Additionally, more of those diagnosed with the coronavirus are children — thanks to a mass effort to test them ahead of the new school year, which starts Wednesday — meaning a significant portion of the new cases are among those who are at a lesser risk of serious illness and cannot yet be vaccinated."

There is no idea that people who receive the vaccine are not dying at all. There is however, scientific evidence and real-time data that people who have received a vaccine are a lot less likely to develop serious symptoms, and therefore die. 

Israel's numbers are extremely good compared to the restrictions (or lack off). 

 

[Kopitiam]

14 minutes ago, impulse said:

China, which accounted for about 70% of pre-Covid tourists, is locked down to international tourism.  Same with Aus and NZ.  Brits have to suffer 2 weeks of expensive quarantine if they return from Thailand.  Lots of tourists from other countries are afraid to travel on airplanes at all.

 

Thailand could throw the doors wide open to anyone and everyone, open the bars and beaches, and give away free happy endings, and they'd still be having a lousy year.  For the most part, it's out of their control.  80% of their tourist base is locked out from the other end.

Hopefully, they'll take the feedback to heart, adjust the policies to address some of the complaints, and things will look better when Europe, N America, and north China get bone chilling cold.  High season.  In the meantime, they've shown that vaccinated, repeatedly tested tourists are the safest customers in Thailand. 

 

Good start...  We'll see if they learn.

 

Thailand can forget about China.  They are closed until 2022.  Better chance of attracting more Europeans and N Americans with lesser hoops to jump through.  Fully vaxxed and PCR testing would be enough.  However, Thailand would have to keep their new cases numbers down to avoid being on the red list of countries that the tourists they want to attract from.

[Scott]

Troll posts reported and removed.

 

[khunpa]

Look at the bright side.
 

Thailand might one day wake up and realize it’s financially <deleted> for years to come.

 

At that point they might get the idea to make it much easier for foreigners to come and stay long term. 
 

Sometimes it takes a good amount of suffering, before people wake up and face the facts. With 2/3 of all shops and businesses closed or in big financial trouble, we might be getting to the tipping-point.

[Rimmer]

Some baiting and bickering posts have been removed

[Kopitiam]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:39 PM, Kopitiam said:

Singapore is preparing it's citizens to deal with living with COVID-19.  All households are given free masks, free ATKs (6pcs), free oximeter so that the people can do self monitoring and protection with masks.  The government has even announced they are prepared to deal with 1000 COVID deaths within the next 2 years of opening (since the start of COVID until now, they have had 52 deaths).  They are going to treat it like normal influenza.  Many people die from influenza every year too.  This can only be achieved when you have a very high level of vaccinated population and a infrastructure to manage COVID-19.  Thailand and Phuket still have a long way to go.  I would love to see them achieving it too so that life can be back to "normal".

Vaccinated Singapore eases into reopening as other nations watch for lessons

https://sg.yahoo.com/news/vaccinated-singapore-eases-reopening-other-065933732.html

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post and a reply has been removed. 

[LivinLOS]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:35 AM, khunpa said:

Look at the bright side.
 

Thailand might one day wake up and realize it’s financially <deleted> for years to come.

 

And the baht has got a lot stronger in the last 5 days ?!?! 

[LivinLOS]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:31 PM, Eibot said:

Israel's numbers are extremely good compared to the restrictions (or lack off). 

Just so we are clear.. This is what you think Thailand should copy ?? The worlds highest per capita infection rate !!! 



And yes, before you say it.. Hospitalisations, ICU and deaths all up also.. 

And you believe Thailands medical systems would be able to cope like Israels ?? Given that Isreal is almost 80% double jabbed and Thailand is ?? 10% ?? Given Israel has one of the worlds best medical systems, the best researchers, most genomic sequencing and monitoring etc etc.. Thailand is in any way comparable to that is it ?? 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by LivinLOS

[Eibot]

7 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Just so we are clear.. This is what you think Thailand should copy ?? The worlds highest per capita infection rate !!! 



And yes, before you say it.. Hospitalisations, ICU and deaths all up also.. 

And you believe Thailands medical systems would be able to cope like Israels ?? Given that Isreal is almost 80% double jabbed and Thailand is ?? 10% ?? Given Israel has one of the worlds best medical systems, the best researchers, most genomic sequencing and monitoring etc etc.. Thailand is in any way comparable to that is it ?? 

 

 

 

 

Yep, this is what Thailand should copy. 

Again, you're posting infections and noting gabout the hospitalization rate or dead rate. As mentioned in my previous comment, Israel is doing a massive test campaign ahead of the starting of schools. This doesn't mean covid-19 isn't going around. The hospitalization and deaths are almost half of that is was in their previous wave in February. This still shows that we have to be aware even after vaccinations. 

If I understand correctly you're typing this post because you think Singapore is a better "example" for Thailand to use. Ofcourse, very black and white, this could be, however, my opinion is that it has two flaws;

 

1) Singapore is essentially a city. Economy wise and infrastructure wise, it's very difficult to implementate the same vaccinate-rate and restrictions as Singapore.

2) As opposed to Israel, Singapore did have very strict measures even though people were getting vaccinated. They are slowly opening up now, but not until 80% has been inoculated. Thailand simply cannot afford to wait this long to ease restrictions. The vaccination roll-out is too slow for this. Businesses will be ruined, and the infrastructure (and bank account) simply does not permit this. 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Eibot
...

[LivinLOS]

57 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Again, you're posting infections and noting gabout the hospitalization rate or dead rate.

I did post day before yesterday was in the top 10 deaths since the pandemic.. Deaths and ICU are rising in lockstep with cases, not at the same ratio as the unvaccinated period but still in a steep rise. 

And your still not addressing the elephant in the room which is Thailands ability to cope with higher levels of infection.. You seem to think Thailand is more like Israel or singapore and less like say.. India !! 

Thailand has no hope of reaching Israel's level of vaccinations any time this year.. Walk in shots for everyone... 3rd booster shots for all at risk.. without that safety net Thailand opening up and letting whatever happens happen, is just insanity.. Theres a perfect script for the overwhelming of the hospital systems, for a much increased CFR because of that, and a genuine disaster which they have so far avoided through the painful steps of lockdowns. Once Thailand has reached the vaccine levels of Israel maybe Q1 next year, then maybe they can think about emulating the same kind of relaxations. 

[Eibot]

2 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I did post day before yesterday was in the top 10 deaths since the pandemic.. Deaths and ICU are rising in lockstep with cases, not at the same ratio as the unvaccinated period but still in a steep rise. 

And your still not addressing the elephant in the room which is Thailands ability to cope with higher levels of infection.. You seem to think Thailand is more like Israel or singapore and less like say.. India !! 

Thailand has no hope of reaching Israel's level of vaccinations any time this year.. Walk in shots for everyone... 3rd booster shots for all at risk.. without that safety net Thailand opening up and letting whatever happens happen, is just insanity.. Theres a perfect script for the overwhelming of the hospital systems, for a much increased CFR because of that, and a genuine disaster which they have so far avoided through the painful steps of lockdowns. Once Thailand has reached the vaccine levels of Israel maybe Q1 next year, then maybe they can think about emulating the same kind of relaxations. 

Top 10 deaths since the pandemic? Israel?

Sure, deaths are hospitalizations are rising as you would expect in a upcoming wave, but it's little and not at all uncontrollably. Many infected in Israel are unvaccinated, however it's OK. In order to succeed you'll have to walk the thin line of easing restrictions and keeping hospitalizations at a minimal level. Which they have been doing very well. Thailand need to follow suit to balance out the economy and the pandamic. 

Thailand seems fine at the moment with the infections. This is without even letting people self-isolate. I never really understand the fear for Thailand's health-system. It's arguably one of the best in South-East Asia. Comparing it to India is an insult to Thailand. Medical tourism has been a thing in Thailand for many years, and will be for years to come. Especially with the current vaccine roll-out, it looks like 80% can be hit by November if they keep vaccinating at this rate...I don't see any reason why the vaccine roll-out will slow down to be honest. Everyone is losing way to much money because of restrictions. It might even be earlier than that. 

 

[ChipButty]

What ever is happening with the sandbox is not trickling down to local people, it's only lining certain peoples pockets, A thai family I have known for many years have decided to pack up and go home back to Nakorn Nowhere, cant afford to stay here anymore

[Kopitiam]

1 hour ago, Eibot said:

Top 10 deaths since the pandemic? Israel?

Sure, deaths are hospitalizations are rising as you would expect in a upcoming wave, but it's little and not at all uncontrollably. Many infected in Israel are unvaccinated, however it's OK. In order to succeed you'll have to walk the thin line of easing restrictions and keeping hospitalizations at a minimal level. Which they have been doing very well. Thailand need to follow suit to balance out the economy and the pandamic. 

Thailand seems fine at the moment with the infections. This is without even letting people self-isolate. I never really understand the fear for Thailand's health-system. It's arguably one of the best in South-East Asia. Comparing it to India is an insult to Thailand. Medical tourism has been a thing in Thailand for many years, and will be for years to come. Especially with the current vaccine roll-out, it looks like 80% can be hit by November if they keep vaccinating at this rate...I don't see any reason why the vaccine roll-out will slow down to be honest. Everyone is losing way to much money because of restrictions. It might even be earlier than that. 

 

"Especially with the current vaccine roll-out, it looks like 80% can be hit by November if they keep vaccinating at this rate...I don't see any reason why the vaccine roll-out will slow down to be honest. Everyone is losing way to much money because of restrictions. It might even be earlier than that. "

 

Many enlightened Thais I spoke to tell me "Don't believe what the politicians tell you.  Believe it when it becomes reality".  Yes, many people are suffering from the numerous lockdowns.  But the authority has no "end game" in mind when they implement the lockdowns.  Just look at what they are doing with the dark red zones now.  Opening up again without achieving anything.  The game of "whack a mole" comes to mind.

 

 

[Eibot]

1 hour ago, Kopitiam said:

"Especially with the current vaccine roll-out, it looks like 80% can be hit by November if they keep vaccinating at this rate...I don't see any reason why the vaccine roll-out will slow down to be honest. Everyone is losing way to much money because of restrictions. It might even be earlier than that. "

 

Many enlightened Thais I spoke to tell me "Don't believe what the politicians tell you.  Believe it when it becomes reality".  Yes, many people are suffering from the numerous lockdowns.  But the authority has no "end game" in mind when they implement the lockdowns.  Just look at what they are doing with the dark red zones now.  Opening up again without achieving anything.  The game of "whack a mole" comes to mind.

 

 

Sure, the implementaties restrictions are mostly very poorly thought through.