Buying house while married to a Thai - do they control source of funds?

[Thingamabob]

To all intents and purposes it will be your wife's house and your wife's land. Only proceed if you're comfortable with that. Court cases regarding  this issue can run on forever in Thailand. 

 

 

[SomchaiCNX]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:28 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear. Try reading the divorce subforum to get an idea of what traps can be laid for a farang that buys a house in LOS.

NO, YOU don't own the land even if YOU paid for it. Seems to me that you have zero rights to that property soon as the papers are signed.

Some posters are sure to talk about the ways to ensure you can live in it if get divorced or she dies, but if the family want to make life unpleasant there is sod all YOU can do about it, IN MY OPINION.

 

Personally I'd rather have been castrated with a rusty razor blade than buy/ build a house for my wife, and was saved from that particular hell on earth when we got divorced because I ignored all her hints to build a house in the village.

Your are entitled to your opinion but you actually don't answer his question. It would be my pleasure to provide the rusted razor blades ????

[Nemo.]

First financial rule of expat finance is NEVER buy property or invest in a  country where you don't own the assets and have proper legal protection. Invest in your home country,  just spend the income in your new "home", rent or lease a property (keep 3-6 months cash reserve locally only).

 

In Thailand if you give money to a woman to buy a house its money gone forever. In my TEFL days, in a small town, a new farang started talking to me. Typical story. He bought his wife a house, a pickup truck, a bike... then she threw him out for another guy. Next sucker. Broken farangs are a dime a dozen in Thailand.

 

2nd rule of expat finance,  any money "invested" via a spouse or gf in most countries treat as a gift. You probably won't see any return and are disposable.

 

This is true in any 3rd world country. One of my ex brother in laws, a Malaysian, lost everything to a Pinoy bargirl. All men of all nations are susceptible to stupidity!

 

Third rule of expat finance is that financial advisors abroad are all filthy scumbags!

 

[SomchaiCNX]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:24 PM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

it has everything to do with his money moving to thailand, because moving the money to thailand

allow thailand to judge this money according to thai money layndry laws.

in thailand money from cannabis sales is dirty money, and in netherlands it is not.

FYI, if you are married and get divorced you get 50 % of the value all the assets you acquired after the marriage unless you made a contract.

[Myran]

Guys, I'm looking for info on the specific questions in the opening post, not pointers on how to spend my money or the risks of investing in Thailand. I'm well aware of the risks and will not face financial ruin if it doesn't work out.

[patman30]

what some are missing in this thread.....
you cannot just give your wife the money and she buys in her name
if you do that they want source of funds and signed letters from yourself
to ensure your wife is not just spending your money
you have to purchase together with yourself present, and its literally no questions asked about source of funds
as some have mentioned you are supposed to request a letter from your bank when you transfer/withdraw funds
stating the withdrawal is for house purchase etc.
we own multiple properties and land
we just bought one plot and i put it in the MILs name as it saved the headache as i was not able to travel to the province
the MIL did not need show proof of funds, as she is not legally married (only a village ceremony)
if she was she too would have had to provide source of funds
its not just a Thai/ferang thing, its a Husband/Wife thing.

[Dogmatix]

Thai women  buying land with foreign hubby's money in Ubon is a common occurence and I believe generally regarded as a good boost to the economy.  I doubt that the land office would have any issues.  It has been a while since I bought land in Mrs Dog's name in Ubon but I don't remember any problems.  According to regulations they are supposed to interview buyer and seller but it is usually aimed at making sure the seller, if a private individual, has received the cash and is not being ripped off by a shark. Anyway there is nothing to stop a Thai woman with foreign husband from buying land since 1999.  Prior to that there was gender bias which allowed Thai men with foreign wives to buy land but not the reverse.  So it was advisable for women to avoid taking foreign hubby's surname by marrying abroad and maintain single status in Thailand.  But today all is changed. The status of Thai men and women with foreign spouses is now identical when it comes to buying land and changing surname on marriage is now optional too. In 1999 a letter was sent to all land offices by the interior ministry which is still in force.  The letter said that in order to save land officials the trouble of checking sources of funds of Thais with foreign spouses applying to transfer land, officials should merly get both spouses to sign a declaration that the funds were the Thai spoouse's lone and the land would be owned solely the Thai and would not become conjugal property. 

 

There are a number of issues with the Land Dept's legal band aid. One is that under the Civil and Commercial Code all property acquired after marriage is conjugal property.  Thus it is hard to argue that it is possible for the funds to be the Thai spouse's sole property as she acquired them after marriage. Another is that there is a Supreme Court ruling that on divorce a house purchased with a foreign husband's funds remitted from overseas with evidence shown had to be considered as part of the conjugal property to be divided 50:50 on divorce.  It is not clear that being forced to sign a scrap of paper in the land office containing a false declaration would forfeit the foreign spouse's right to a half share of the asset on divorce.    

[khunPer]

On 9/2/2021 at 2:16 PM, Myran said:

One of the bigger developers mentioned that they have now started to "check where the money comes from" when a Thai woman married to a foreigner buys a house.

In principle money given as a gift - to for example buy a house - are income taxable. Perhaps that's the reason?

Or it could be, as @thaibeachloverssay, to check money laundering; many of us are all asked more questions - both here, and similar in our home countries - the give the banks a chance to check for whitewashing.

 

If you are transferring a larger sum from abroad to buy a house - in case of divorce it might be split 50/50 even you paid all - you shall ask the bank for registering the transfer with Bank of Thailand. You'll get a copy of the registration in a weeks time or so, thereby you are eligible to transfer the same amount of out Thailand, in case it should ever be needed.

[KhaoYai]

 

 

On 9/2/2021 at 1:55 PM, Bangkokhatter said:

Maybe you should stop commenting on topics you have no experience of ?.

OP the developer is just informing your wife that if you as the Husband are paying cash for the house then the money must come from overseas. Your Thai bank can assist you with the form you need.

Incorrect, the money only has to come from abroad when a foreigner is buying a condo in their name. In the case of buying a house, your wife can buy it but you will be asked to sign a declaration that the money used is hers and you will make no claim on the property.

 

However, flying directly in the face of that is the fact that a 'foreign' mortgage (legal charge) on a property is legal in Thailand - although not every Land Office will accept them. The first port of call is to contact the Land Office responsible for where you intend to buy and find out if they accept foreign mortgages.  If they do, a lawyer will advise you on the best way to go about it.  My suggestion would be to carry out the purchase normally and say nothing about the legal charge at the time of ownership registration.  Then sometime later, register the mortgage on the property. That done, in the event of a breakdown in your relationship, you will be able to 'call in' the mortgage - subject to how the agreement has been written.

 

The biggest hurdle you may face is getting your wife to sign a piece of paper that basically says she owes you X million baht - try tempering that with a will that cancels out the mortgage.  However, if my wife wouldn't accept such a mortgage, I might well be questioning whether purchasing a house is the best thing to do.

 

You can also protect yourself from being 'evicted' from the property in the event of a marital breakdown by correctly registering a Usufruct agreement.  Realisticly, that would only work if the house was away from any family.  Those building houses on family land in a village for example, might find life a little 'uncomfortable' if they tried to stay in the property when things went south.

[Dogmatix]

From Samui for Sale

Since the letter of the Ministry of Interior (most urgent No. Mo 0710/vor 792 dated 23 March 1999), a Thai national married to a foreigner may acquire land, however; the land (and some cases condominium unit) must become a personal property of the Thai spouse and must be excluded from the couple's marriage community property regime. The foreigner is not allowed to have co-ownership in land together with his or her Thai spouse.

Regulation: The procedure for the acquisition of land by Thais having spouses being aliens, either by lawful marriage (with proper registration of marriage) or unlawful marriage (without proper registration of marriage) and children of aliens have been changed to be as follows: Any Thai having an alien spouse may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land during marriage under the condition that the spouse must jointly provide a written legal confirmation stating that the entire source of funds for such purchase or gift is solely from the Personal Property (such as defined by Thai laws) of such Thai. Without written confirmation from an alien spouse, the request for such registration must be referred to the Land Department in order to obtain an approval from the Minister. Any alien's minor having Thai nationality may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land if it does not appear after investigation that he/she has done so to avoid the law.

For registration of land to a Thai national married to a foreigner proof is required that the money used to purchase the land is legally the Thai spouse's.  In case of acquisition of land or in some cases condominium at the Land Department;

	1.	the Thai spouse has to show evidence that all money paid is a personal property (Sin Suan Tua) according to section 1471 and section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code, or;
	2.	that the Thai and his/her spouse must present themselves at the Land Office (*) to confirm in a standard Land Office letter of confirmation that all money paid for the property is personal property (Sin Suan Tua) not a common property (Sin Som Ros). Translation Regulation

* If his/her spouse does not live in Thailand it can be recorded by ambassador / consular or notary public in such country.

As the land or in some cases condominium (depending on the foreign ownership ratio within the condominium) must become a personal property of the Thai spouse the foreign spouse may protect his/ her interest in the property by registering a lifetime usufruct for life or a lease. However, under Thai law agreements between spouses concluded during marriage could be avoided by either spouses at any time during marriage or within one year from the date of dissolution of the marriage, therefore do not offer the expected straight forward protection.

[Dogmatix]

After buying land in Mrs Dog's name for a few years, I got Thai citizenship.   Since then she has grumbled that I stopped putting land in her name and bought it in my own name instead.  So I said, if you buy land with your own money, I will be very happy for you to put it in your own name.  Grumpy silence. 

[bolt]

I’m curious regarding

We’re in the process of selling our 1^st house, which was(is) in my wifes name, and we will use that money to buy land which has a house already on it.

We are married +10 years

Will I have to be there to sign anything??

[MadMuhammad]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:53 PM, Nojohndoe said:

 

But  despite what the "law" is the Land Office is unlikely to question the source of funds because  in the process of transfer of title there is no capacity for a foreigner to be involved.  The Land Office is more interested in the price paid so as to apply the fees  "tax" which they  may determine based on a value greater than that declared if they suspect unrealistically understated. That occurs because the seller and buyer often agree to split the fee so are in agreement to try minimize it.

 

Or you can make a donation for an agreed amount to the land department and name the house value yourself. Allegedly

[VocalNeal]

8 hours ago, bolt said:

I’m curious regarding

We’re in the process of selling our 1^st house, which was(is) in my wifes name, and we will use that money to buy land which has a house already on it.

We are married +10 years

Will I have to be there to sign anything??

If the money is the wife's that should be no problem. At worst you may be asked to sign a declaration that the funds to purchase the new land are hers and hers alone.

[Nojohndoe]

32 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Or you can make a donation for an agreed amount to the land department and name the house value yourself. Allegedly

Naturally. Private negotiation often works to achieve mutual satisfaction. Allegedly

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:18 PM, Eibot said:

Thailand only cares about money laundering when the money moves out of the country. 

Nonsense.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:01 PM, Gottfrid said:

According to the law, you are not allowed to pay for the house or land.  You are only allowed to buy or invest in condos

 To use your own expression, pure BS!    You're ignoring the fact that foreigners can buy and own houses but not the land that they stand on.   It may not be a good idea but it is permitted.

 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

On 9/2/2021 at 4:23 PM, DrJack54 said:

At the Land Office, I signed form that basically stated that I forgo any rights to money that I provided.

you had to sign this form because the asset will be registered on another name.

which really makes me wonder: why would someone, in his sane  mind, will want

to register an asset on his thai wife' / partner name???

why giving away your hard earned money if you are not a high school  in love?

saving on rent cannot be the answer so it leaves only...love ??????

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

you had to sign this form because the asset will be registered on another name.

which really makes me wonder: why would someone, in his sane  mind, will want

to register an asset on his thai wife' / partner name???

why giving away your hard earned money if you are not a high school  in love?

saving on rent cannot be the answer so it leaves only...love ??????

It was a gift. Along with a car.

Partner of 10years. In Oz we call it defacto and legally binding similar to marriage.

I could have made a Will to pass it to her. I choose to do it this way. 

I'm not "registering the asset in partner's name".....I'm gifting it.

 

[Gottfrid]

6 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 To use your own expression, pure BS!    You're ignoring the fact that foreigners can buy and own houses but not the land that they stand on.   It may not be a good idea but it is permitted.

 

It is not at all generally permitted. That is entirely up to the local land office. It will also be a very complicated work regarding papers and separations of land and house. Most of the offices will say a blank no. That built upon the laws for owning a condo. In that case the building must have no more than 49% foreign ownership and you will still not own the land the condo stands on, right? How do you then think it would be generally permitted to own a complete building that stands on a piece of land that you do not own?

This is just something you have read about, and the fact is that it is not very common. Only a few have managed to get through with a deal like that. So, the BS and delusion still remains in your firm ownership.

[Eibot]

13 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense.

With a 60% shadow economy, it's very hard to argue something else. 

Did anyone EVER had questions asked when importing money into Thailand? Ever?

[Liverpool Lou]

59 minutes ago, Eibot said:

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense.

With a 60% shadow economy, it's very hard to argue something else. 

Did anyone EVER had questions asked when importing money into Thailand? Ever?

Yes, there are Bank Of Thailand regulations stating at that at certain levels enquiries must be made by the customers' Thai bank as to the source of the received funds.  Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean that there are no regulations! 

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 To use your own expression, pure BS!    You're ignoring the fact that foreigners can buy and own houses but not the land that they stand on.   It may not be a good idea but it is permitted.

 

It is not at all generally permitted.

Regardless of the "difficulty" of the process that you claim, it is allowed under Thai law.   That's what I said, you said it wasn't possible, you were wrong.

[Eibot]

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yes, there are Bank Of Thailand regulations stating at that at certain levels enquiries must be made by the customers' Thai bank as to the source of the received funds.  Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean that there are no regulations! 

Yes, and they want proof that the source is outside Thailand. Thats it

[Liverpool Lou]

8 minutes ago, Eibot said:

26 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yes, there are Bank Of Thailand regulations stating at that at certain levels enquiries must be made by the customers' Thai bank as to the source of the received funds.  Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean that there are no regulations! 

Yes, and they want proof that the source is outside Thailand. Thats it

No that is not "it" as far as my response to your false comment is concerned, I made no comment about the source of funds.   

 

You stated that foreigners cannot buy and own houses in Thailand.  They can, they just cannot own the land the house sits on.   That is "it".

[Eibot]

52 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

made by the customers' Thai bank as to the source of the received funds. 

Yes you did. And that is it. If you have more information, do share it with us.

 

Indeed you can own the materials but not the land. Maybe it's the wording but when you own a house I also includede the actual ground it's on. 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

15 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

It was a gift.

than it is all clear, sir, but not rellevant to the question

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/3/2021 at 2:53 AM, Nojohndoe said:

As far as I know there still exists a Thai statute that states that a foreigner who supplies the finance for land via spouse is invalid and subject to dispossession. I believe the statute was to prevent aqcuisition of land via marriages of convenience or other manipulations. Ironically there is no statute that  limits the "gifting" of financial assets to a spouse or  any other.

That is what I was referring to in my second post.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/4/2021 at 4:09 PM, SomchaiCNX said:

Your are entitled to your opinion but you actually don't answer his question. It would be my pleasure to provide the rusted razor blades ????

Had he taken my "advice" his question would have been moot as he wouldn't be buying something he can't own.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 To use your own expression, pure BS!    You're ignoring the fact that foreigners can buy and own houses but not the land that they stand on.   It may not be a good idea but it is permitted.

 

That is what I have always understood to be the legal case, but in the real world, who would be brave enough to continue living in "their" house in a village when the Thai family have made it clear that the farang should get lost?