German Retirees at high risk !

[jensmann]

Endangers the German Embassy in Bangkok german pensioners in Thailand?

Open letter to the German Ambassador Georg Schmidt in Bangkok (Translation)

7. September 2021

 

Dear Mr. Ambassador Georg Schmidt, 

instigated by the German Embassy, BKK, german retirees are exposed to a very high Covid19 risk.

Following your leaflet (Jan.2021) you excluded the income certificates needed for the Thai immigration to be send by post. i.e.all retirees in need for this certificate now have to travel to the Dark Red Covid19 zone of Bangkok.

Upon inquiry Mr. Michael Brick (RK-112) confirmed that. Other questions he did not answer. Answering my next inquiry, Mrs. Johanna Sander (RK-1) stated: "cash payments and payments by post can no longer be accepted". Furthermore she admitted: "other payment methods that don't require a personal appearance are unfortunately not available". She also did not refer to additional questions.

She then pointed to the possibility of sending an authorised representative, which doesn't make sense, because this person would have to carry the same risk. Personally I would not feel comfortable to delegate a potential increased Covid19 risk to someone else.

While the Deutsche Renten Service (German Pension Service) releases its 20 million retirees from verifying the mandatory annual life certificates to avoid unnecessary Covid19 risk, the German Embassy, BKK, asks docens, if not hundreds, old retirees to travel all across Thailand in the Dark Red Zone Bangkok to pick up a relatively simple paper.

The reason your house gave is that the German Embassy can not handle digital payments ! ?

For this profane an untimely reason the health and lifes of countless retirees are putt out at risk, while it is well known that the vaccination rates and especially of foreigners in Thailand are very low (currently approx. 13%).

In addition to the already costly certificate (€40) each retiree has to bear extensive extra costs.

In your Newsletters you ask your fellow Germans in Thailand to be careful, follow the restrictions and best stay at home. The above described action seems to be extremely counterproductive.

In the name of all concerned pensioners I kindly ask you, dear Mr. Ambassador Georg Schmidt, to reintroduce the postal service again with immediate effect and insure that cashless/online payments to the embassy are possiple.

Thank you.

With kind regards

Jens Schünemann

[ubonjoe]

Not visa or extensions of stay related. Moved to here.

[jensmann]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not visa or extensions of stay related. Moved to here.

well, ubonjoe, this certificate is needed for the immigration, that's why...

[jensmann]

36 minutes ago, jensmann said:

well, ubonjoe, this certificate is needed for the immigration, that's why...

it's 100% related to extention of stay. this income certificate is needed for the thai immigrating only. I'd like to help my  german fellows to get this paper post again instead  of having to travel to bangkok.

pleade, please locate it bach to visa etc...

thanks jens

[Caldera]

Long story short, they're too stupid to figure out online payments, in the year 2021? So you need to show up in person, to allow them to collect cash from you?

 

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Not visa or extensions of stay related. Moved to here.

It's about the pension letter necessary for extension.

 

Another highlight of the miserable service of the German embassy.

A complete joke.

Mr. Ambassador prefers news about riding his electric scooter and car to save the world climate.

Edited September 8, 2021 by KhunBENQ

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

It's about the pension letter necessary for extension.

I did not see that as being the reason for the topic done.

[Swiss1960]

I guess that the upcoming elections are a bigger concern for the ambassador than the few expats that might or might not get sick when travelling to BKK... he might be out of job, if the German government changes...

[micmichd]

18 hours ago, jensmann said:

it's 100% related to extention of stay. this income certificate is needed for the thai immigrating only. I'd like to help my  german fellows to get this paper post again instead  of having to travel to bangkok.

pleade, please locate it bach to visa etc...

thanks jens

I'm a German pensioner, too, and my pensions are transferred to a Thai Bank account. Everything is visible in my bank book (they have specified codes for money transfers there), and this is accepted by Chonburi immigration. No need to travel to Bangkok for 90 day-reports or extensions of stay. 

In doubt I would recommend you to contact a visa agency. 

[soalbundy]

20 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

It's about the pension letter necessary for extension.

 

Another highlight of the miserable service of the German embassy.

A complete joke.

Mr. Ambassador prefers news about riding his electric scooter and car to save the world climate.

You can get the confirmation of pension by post through a German consulate, I have just done so, payment through bank transfer.

[jensmann]

7 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

You can get the confirmation of pension by post through a German consulate, I have just done so, payment through bank transfer.

soalbundy, thank you, which consulate did you use and what papers do they ask for?    

[jensmann]

2 hours ago, micmichd said:

I'm a German pensioner, too, and my pensions are transferred to a Thai Bank account. Everything is visible in my bank book (they have specified codes for money transfers there), and this is accepted by Chonburi immigration. No need to travel to Bangkok for 90 day-reports or extensions of stay. 

In doubt I would recommend you to contact a visa agency. 

thank you micmichd, 

you do not need a " einkommensbescheinig

ung" der Deutschen  Botschaft ??? wie sehen die bankcodes in deinem bankbuch aus???

[soalbundy]

Just now, jensmann said:

soalbundy, thank you, which consulate did you use and what papers do they ask for?    

I first sent an email to Phuket consulate asking about this, you can send the documents online (scan pension letter from your pension provider, scan of first page of your passport) When they confirmed they would send the letter they sent a bank account number, after payment at the bank I had to scan the receipt and send it per email, they said the letter will be sent with the next post. Pattaya also has this service but you have to send cash by EMS.

[micmichd]

33 minutes ago, jensmann said:

thank you micmichd, 

you do not need a " einkommensbescheinig

ung" der Deutschen  Botschaft ??? wie sehen die bankcodes in deinem bankbuch aus???

No, I don't need an "Einkommensbescheinigung" from German Embassy, my Bangkok Bank Bankbook is enough to demonstrate my money comes from abroad. 

The bank transfer codes are CMB (for social security pensions) and FTT (for bank pensions) 

[jensmann]

34 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I first sent an email to Phuket consulate asking about this, you can send the documents online (scan pension letter from your pension provider, scan of first page of your passport) When they confirmed they would send the letter they sent a bank account number, after payment at the bank I had to scan the receipt and send it per email, they said the letter will be sent with the next post. Pattaya also has this service but you have to send cash by EMS.

Danke, lieber Soalbundy.., das hilft sehr. werde es probieren...

[jensmann]

4 minutes ago, micmichd said:

No, I don't need an "Einkommensbescheinigung" from German Embassy, my Bangkok Bank Bankbook is enough to demonstrate my money comes from abroad. 

The bank transfer codes are CMB (for social security pensions) and FTT (for bank pensions) 

danke, lieber micmichd,

reporte 90 day ende september und werde denen mal mein bankbuch zeigen....

danke für deine hilfe...

[yimlitnoy]

22 hours ago, Caldera said:

Long story short, they're too stupid to figure out online payments, in the year 2021? So you need to show up in person, to allow them to collect cash from you?

 

The German Embassy staff must be all very old... or very lazy... or God forbid, very stupid.  This below might give them an idea of what others are using in 2021!  In Canada, we have some difficulty in using simple cash unless through a slot in an artificial intelligent machine...    

 

[soalbundy]

23 hours ago, jensmann said:

well, ubonjoe, this certificate is needed for the immigration, that's why...

I think that we should be grateful that the German embassy still provides this service. My own embassy (British) doesn't. I get a German pension as I have spent most of my working life in Germany and despite my being a foreigner they provide this service for me so I have no complaints, in fact I have found the German embassy to be very helpful in other areas as well, unlike the British embassy.

[micmichd]

21 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

I guess that the upcoming elections are a bigger concern for the ambassador than the few expats that might or might not get sick when travelling to BKK... he might be out of job, if the German government changes...

Maybe yes, maybe no. The German ambassador's name has changed at least two times since I'm in Thailand. But the fact that pension transfers are transfers of money between banks has not changed. Immigrations are only interested in how much money comes into Thailand and that it comes from abroad. Embassies are not banks, German Postbank (a subsidiary of Deutsche Bank) which are used by German Pension Service is a bank. And don't think that German Pension Service is identical with DRV-Bund in Berlin. I wouldn't even try to contact a German Embassy for an affidavit. I only went there once to apply for a new passport, but that's not the OP's theme. 

[jensmann]

1 hour ago, yimlitnoy said:

The German Embassy staff must be all very old... or very lazy... or God forbid, very stupid.  This below might give them an idea of what others are using in 2021!  In Canada, we have some difficulty in using simple cash unless through a slot in an artificial intelligent machine...    

 

I'm 100% with you...

[arithai12]

2 hours ago, micmichd said:

Maybe yes, maybe no. The German ambassador's name has changed at least two times since I'm in Thailand. But the fact that pension transfers are transfers of money between banks has not changed. Immigrations are only interested in how much money comes into Thailand and that it comes from abroad. Embassies are not banks, German Postbank (a subsidiary of Deutsche Bank) which are used by German Pension Service is a bank. And don't think that German Pension Service is identical with DRV-Bund in Berlin. I wouldn't even try to contact a German Embassy for an affidavit. I only went there once to apply for a new passport, but that's not the OP's theme. 

I think there's a misundestanding between you and the OP. You have chosen the monthly transfers to a Thai bank as a proof for your yearly extension based on retirement. Fine. Of course, the embassy has no role in that, only your Thai bank which has to write a statement to be shown at Immigration.

 

The OP however wants to avail himself of another option still possible afaik for German retirees, that is a letter from the Embassy that certifies that he has a sufficient income from his pension in Germany, WITHOUT transfering the funds to Thailand. The Embassy apparently wants that he appears in person, normally a logical requirement but perhaps inconvenient at present times.

 

Now, what I know from German friends I have, is that it's not just the Embassy but also the Consulates that can do this service (the "Einkommensbescheinigung"). So perhaps the OP doesn't need to travel all the way to Bangkok, but just to the Consulate nearest to him?

[micmichd]

13 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

I think there's a misundestanding between you and the OP. You have chosen the monthly transfers to a Thai bank as a proof for your yearly extension based on retirement. Fine. Of course, the embassy has no role in that, only your Thai bank which has to write a statement to be shown at Immigration.

 

The OP however wants to avail himself of another option still possible afaik for German retirees, that is a letter from the Embassy that certifies that he has a sufficient income from his pension in Germany, WITHOUT transfering the funds to Thailand. The Embassy apparently wants that he appears in person, normally a logical requirement but perhaps inconvenient at present times.

 

Now, what I know from German friends I have, is that it's not just the Embassy but also the Consulates that can do this service (the "Einkommensbescheinigung"). So perhaps the OP doesn't need to travel all the way to Bangkok, but just to the Consulate nearest to him?

Sorry to say but the PDF you get when you google "Einkommensbescheinigung fuer Rentner in Deutschland" clearly states Embassy (not consulate)  

No idea where the OP lives, but travelling to Bangkok is obviously quite inconvenient - and not mandatory if you have an adequate Thai Bankbook to proceed at immigration. 

[soalbundy]

45 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Sorry to say but the PDF you get when you google "Einkommensbescheinigung fuer Rentner in Deutschland" clearly states Embassy (not consulate)  

No idea where the OP lives, but travelling to Bangkok is obviously quite inconvenient - and not mandatory if you have an adequate Thai Bankbook to proceed at immigration. 

Well I have spoken with a German pensioner who has done this with a consulate for several years and I have just successfully applied for the letter with a consulate so as a subsidiary of the German embassy they are clearly entitled to do this. It would appear that I have wasted my time travelling to Bangkok every year to the embassy. On the 'letterhead' of the consulate web page it states 'German embassy'.

[jensmann]

well, gentleman, there is a lot of truth in all your statements.

soalbundy gave the tip with the consulates. i emailed chiang-mai, pattaya and phuket. all three confirmed that they ishue this certificate. i chose phuket because they except all papers by email. within 5 min i sent them copies of pass, pension proof, adress to print out and proof of money transfer (baht 1,693). got immediate confirmation that the certificate is "in the post". great!

i will follow up on micmichd's proposal with the bank book only, when i get to udon immi by the end of this month.

so far they asked every year beside the certificate from the embassy also for the bank book and checked if there was money coming in on a regular basis. btw. my bank code is FTN ! ?

hope they would accept bank book only because many embassy's of other countries don't issue this certificate anymore anyhow.

coming back to the german embassy: my stance hasn't changed.

they skip that service in covid times, they can not provide a digital payment opportunity and they are not even able to give me the information that their consulates still provide this postal service.

i feel ashamed for them!!!

so far, thank you guys for all your input. that was very helpful. you made my day. cheers jens 

 

[Richard 2020]

So the headline alone is strange!

I live for 30 years in Thailand and make for 15 years my income certificate in Pattaya at the German consulate there!
The only thing that is new since 2020, is that you have to present the original pension / pension notice also at the local imigration in Chonburi!
That it also goes by mail, has already been written.

Richard

[jensmann]

39 minutes ago, Richard 2020 said:

So the headline alone is strange!

I live for 30 years in Thailand and make for 15 years my income certificate in Pattaya at the German consulate there!
The only thing that is new since 2020, is that you have to present the original pension / pension notice also at the local imigration in Chonburi!
That it also goes by mail, has already been written.

Richard

thanks Richard, i did'nt know that and the embassy never told me that the consulates do posting. they just told me to go there. when you are located in udon thani it's a tough decision either to go to bkk, pattaya, phuket or chiang-mai. kidding. 

indeed many go to bkk for this paper and those are the ones at risk....

if you follow my follow up comments, we thought it out now.

Certificate, certificate and bank book or just bank book. i will discuss with immi udon later this month. cheers

[OJAS]

On 9/9/2021 at 10:53 AM, micmichd said:

The bank transfer codes are CMB (for social security pensions)

Are you sure about this one? CMB was the code used by Bangkok Bank recently to bundle together a whole load of transactions into a single line in my passbook (as a result of a delay on my part in updating the passbook).

[jensmann]

Update: Made 90 days yesterday in Udon Thani. I was asking if I still need the income certificate from the embassy? the answer was yes + bank book with 12x incoming money + bank letter.

they had no clue about bank codes in the bank book. in my case kasikorn FTN (foreign trade)....

mmmmhhh...

 

[puck2]

On 9/9/2021 at 10:20 AM, soalbundy said:

I first sent an email to Phuket consulate asking about this, you can send the documents online (scan pension letter from your pension provider, scan of first page of your passport) When they confirmed they would send the letter they sent a bank account number, after payment at the bank I had to scan the receipt and send it per email, they said the letter will be sent with the next post. Pattaya also has this service but you have to send cash by EMS.

I can confirm exactly the same service (confirmation of income) by the Germnan Honorary Consulate in Chiang Mai, this year (because of Covid). Excellent and with common sense!