Thailand hoteliers forced to sell up as COVID hits cashflow

[Bangkok Barry]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

She said there had been many enquiries at banks and via real estate agents for investors wanting to pick up hotels if the price is right.

Sounds perfect, then. Ready buyers. The problem is that there is no-one to stay in them, which is why they are closed and being sold in the first place.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Bangkok Barry

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

There certainly is a tendency on this topic for some to see the Chinese as an undifferentiated "yellow horde" who will buy up five star hotels and turn them into slaughter pits. What if something else takes place? What if the PRC Chinese do buy up a lot of hotels?  And what if they use them as the anchor end to bring in a new more upper class and sophisticated mainlander? I deal with many, many well educated professional Chinese who have come to Thailand and I like them. I would, for example, rather spend time with them than some of the more coarse Britpats and Amerexes I have had to deal with. The Chinese, in general, are smarter, more willing to adapt, and eager to learn than a lot of the hidebound Westerners who have set up shop here. Besides, Thailand is going to need them. In addition to the emptiness of immigration offices, abandoned condos, and fewer Western faces on the streets, just judging from Aseannow's postings, it seems there has been quite a culling of the existing expatriate herd. Lots of familiar names are gone for good, it seems. Add that into the ones that have moved back home and still post here in order to rationalize their decision to leave Thailand and there are just a lot fewer Western retirees here. Or so it seems to me. There is room for a certain class of Chinese to move in.

There are indeed sophisticated Chinese, those who do not descend like vultures on the buffet, and I've seen them elsewhere. But they have rarely come to a country with third-rate infrastructure like Thailand before the pandemic, and there is absolutely no reason at all that they should in the future to experience an industry that will be only a shadow of what it was before.

 

Who wants to invest in tourist hotels when there are no tourists? Perhaps Thailand will go back 30, 40, 50 years or more to when staying in a shack on the beach made the country such an attraction for many, with the 'posh' tourists staying in small and simple hotels. That might very well be Thailand's future, rather than five-star hotels and rich tourists flooding in. Those days are probably gone for good.  

[retsdon]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

the man who helped destroy the industry

The industry already pretty much destroyed itself. If you want a case study in self-destructive short-term greed, look no further than the Thai tourist industry over the last 2 decades.

[starky]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They will be taking a risk , they could end up with a hotel that doesnt make a profit for years , if ever . 

   They are taking the risk and they may profit or lose 

When ya talking about a country where coppers have 400 million baht in assets on a 40k a month salary there is zero risk involved. It's just washing dirty money

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There are many issues affecting tourism. One is the worst possible tourism minister, that could be selected. How about just admitting that expectations for your performance as tourism minister were not met? You failed. You failed so spectacularly, that there are few comparisons to make. Phiphat is to tourism, what Tim Tebow and Ryan Leaf was to the NFL, Chris Washburn was to the NBA, Paulinho was to Tottenham, and Prayuth is to the office of PM. All dismal failures. All huge disappointments. All incapable of fulfilling hopes or expectations.

Tourism is not returning anytime soon. The average Thai seems to attribute this to Covid. And that is a significant factor. But, there were a dozen issues plaguing the industry long before covid reared it's ugly head, income was dropping dramatically, as the "number of arrivals" were up, pointing toward a dramatically lower quality of tourist, that Thailand was able to attract. The heavy hitters, and the wealthy tourists have found many other places that meet their need for a nice bottle of wine with dinner (that is not overpriced to a mind boggling degree), a sommelier at the hotel who knows their wine, reasonable luxury goods, so the wife can shop here while on vacation, law and order that addresses jet ski scammers, sewage being dumped into the ocean in resort areas, control over the taxi goons, and far better transportation options (high speed trains, helicopters available for transport, etc). And I am only getting started, as there were a dozen other things that needed to be addressed, and were not on any level, by anyone. 

They still have not learned much. This was a great learning opportunity for Phiphat, and the other goombahs. Obstacles and tragedies can be learning experiences, for mature men and women. And they can offer a path toward improvement, and progress. But, apparently that does not apply to these authorities and so called leaders. 

Phiphat (and Prayuth) you have made history. 100 years from now, in the hospitality industry classes at the university level, they will still be teaching about you, as the man who presided over the once great industry of tourism, the man who helped destroy the industry millions depended upon. They will talk about you when the students are visiting the hollowed out shells, of once formerly great hotels, as the man who helped precipitate the demise and decline of Thailand, from the tiger of SE Asia (and at one time the 21st largest economy in the world) to a whiny, sickly, skinny, disease infested alley cat, on it's last legs. And on par with Burundi, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, Yemen, and Sierra Leone. 

 

 

Thank you, visitor from the future. Who is going to win the next World Cup?

[rodknock]

buy cheap hotels that do not make money

that's how you launder money!!!!!!

[zzaa09]

6 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Sounds like the Crassus syndrome is alive and living in today's Thailand

One could easily say that even during the best of times [pre-COVID and all that] the greater percentage hoteliers were struggling to keep afloat. Most, if not all, still holding notes and in debt. 

[natway09]

The standard of  5 & 6 star hotels in Thailand is still exceptional value when compared to 

a similar standard in London & Australia (that have very few) of this calibre

You are talking a quarter to one third the price tag across the board & service is often still better in Thailand

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

One could easily say that even during the best of times [pre-COVID and all that] the greater percentage hoteliers were struggling to keep afloat. Most, if not all, still holding notes and in debt. 

As Frank Sinatra sang "I did it my way". None have deep pockets unless they are part of a major chain.  There will be buyouts and combining of smaller ones I fear.

[John Drake]

2 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 Perhaps Thailand will go back 30, 40, 50 years or more to when staying in a shack on the beach made the country such an attraction for many, with the 'posh' tourists staying in small and simple hotels. That might very well be Thailand's future, rather than five-star hotels and rich tourists flooding in. Those days are probably gone for good.  

Actually that sounds rather tempting.

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, petermik said:

cheap as chips......

possibly they are.

 

would love to see the list.

[starky]

5 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

It is going to be interesting to see what happens to places like Walking street and Patpong.  Even after covid is gone I still do not see it ever getting to a point where people make money. The big money people are going to have to make s decision.

 

The family that owns Patpong will never lose regardless of the circumstance. 

[Madgee]

4 hours ago, John Drake said:

just judging from Aseannow's postings, it seems there has been quite a culling of the existing expatriate herd. Lots of familiar names are gone for good, it seems

Nah, they've just gone to another childish forum!

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Sounds perfect, then. Ready buyers. The problem is that there is no-one to stay in them, which is why they are closed and being sold in the first place.

Over saturation/supply and demand.

A noodle shop every 200 metres.

Edited September 8, 2021 by zzaa09

[phetphet]

8 hours ago, ozzydon said:

its ok the chinese will buy them at a price

Not yet. Still too early. They are waiting until the hoteliers will pay them to take them off their hands.

[Deli]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There are many issues affecting tourism. One is the worst possible tourism minister, that could be selected. How about just admitting that expectations for your performance as tourism minister were not met? You failed. You failed so spectacularly, that there are few comparisons to make. Phiphat is to tourism, what Tim Tebow and Ryan Leaf was to the NFL, Chris Washburn was to the NBA, Paulinho was to Tottenham, and Prayuth is to the office of PM. All dismal failures. All huge disappointments. All incapable of fulfilling hopes or expectations.

Tourism is not returning anytime soon. The average Thai seems to attribute this to Covid. And that is a significant factor. But, there were a dozen issues plaguing the industry long before covid reared it's ugly head, income was dropping dramatically, as the "number of arrivals" were up, pointing toward a dramatically lower quality of tourist, that Thailand was able to attract. The heavy hitters, and the wealthy tourists have found many other places that meet their need for a nice bottle of wine with dinner (that is not overpriced to a mind boggling degree), a sommelier at the hotel who knows their wine, reasonable luxury goods, so the wife can shop here while on vacation, law and order that addresses jet ski scammers, sewage being dumped into the ocean in resort areas, control over the taxi goons, and far better transportation options (high speed trains, helicopters available for transport, etc). And I am only getting started, as there were a dozen other things that needed to be addressed, and were not on any level, by anyone. 

They still have not learned much. This was a great learning opportunity for Phiphat, and the other goombahs. Obstacles and tragedies can be learning experiences, for mature men and women. And they can offer a path toward improvement, and progress. But, apparently that does not apply to these authorities and so called leaders. 

Phiphat (and Prayuth) you have made history. 100 years from now, in the hospitality industry classes at the university level, they will still be teaching about you, as the man who presided over the once great industry of tourism, the man who helped destroy the industry millions depended upon. They will talk about you when the students are visiting the hollowed out shells, of once formerly great hotels, as the man who helped precipitate the demise and decline of Thailand, from the tiger of SE Asia (and at one time the 21st largest economy in the world) to a whiny, sickly, skinny, disease infested alley cat, on it's last legs. And on par with Burundi, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, Yemen, and Sierra Leone. 

 

 

As certain words aren't allowed on this forum, i could not have said it better. Thank you.

[zzaa09]

59 minutes ago, Madgee said:

Nah, they've just gone to another childish forum!

All of which appear to be homogenous.

[zzaa09]

5 hours ago, John Drake said:

There certainly is a tendency on this topic for some to see the Chinese as an undifferentiated "yellow horde" who will buy up five star hotels and turn them into slaughter pits. What if something else takes place? What if the PRC Chinese do buy up a lot of hotels?  And what if they use them as the anchor end to bring in a new more upper class and sophisticated mainlander? I deal with many, many well educated professional Chinese who have come to Thailand and I like them. I would, for example, rather spend time with them than some of the more coarse Britpats and Amerexes I have had to deal with. The Chinese, in general, are smarter, more willing to adapt, and eager to learn than a lot of the hidebound Westerners who have set up shop here. Besides, Thailand is going to need them. In addition to the emptiness of immigration offices, abandoned condos, and fewer Western faces on the streets, just judging from Aseannow's postings, it seems there has been quite a culling of the existing expatriate herd. Lots of familiar names are gone for good, it seems. Add that into the ones that have moved back home and still post here in order to rationalize their decision to leave Thailand and there are just a lot fewer Western retirees here. Or so it seems to me. There is room for a certain class of Chinese to move in.

Well said, suspecting that many here can't/won't comprehend such a posting.

[MrJ2U]

Many hotels or "resorts" run by Thais are mostly dumps.

 

I'll stick with the international chains like Marriott, Hilton, etc when I go on a vacation.

 

I find I get more bang for the buck.

 

I don't like being nickel and dimed by some of these Thai owners.

 

  Extra for pillows, cheap coffee at breakfast, unkempt grounds.

 

This is my opinion.

I'm sure there are many nice Thai owned resorts.

[jazzdog32095]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There are many issues affecting tourism. One is the worst possible tourism minister, that could be selected. How about just admitting that expectations for your performance as tourism minister were not met? You failed. You failed so spectacularly, that there are few comparisons to make. Phiphat is to tourism, what Tim Tebow and Ryan Leaf was to the NFL, Chris Washburn was to the NBA, Paulinho was to Tottenham, and Prayuth is to the office of PM. All dismal failures. All huge disappointments. All incapable of fulfilling hopes or expectations.

Tourism is not returning anytime soon. The average Thai seems to attribute this to Covid. And that is a significant factor. But, there were a dozen issues plaguing the industry long before covid reared it's ugly head, income was dropping dramatically, as the "number of arrivals" were up, pointing toward a dramatically lower quality of tourist, that Thailand was able to attract. The heavy hitters, and the wealthy tourists have found many other places that meet their need for a nice bottle of wine with dinner (that is not overpriced to a mind boggling degree), a sommelier at the hotel who knows their wine, reasonable luxury goods, so the wife can shop here while on vacation, law and order that addresses jet ski scammers, sewage being dumped into the ocean in resort areas, control over the taxi goons, and far better transportation options (high speed trains, helicopters available for transport, etc). And I am only getting started, as there were a dozen other things that needed to be addressed, and were not on any level, by anyone. 

They still have not learned much. This was a great learning opportunity for Phiphat, and the other goombahs. Obstacles and tragedies can be learning experiences, for mature men and women. And they can offer a path toward improvement, and progress. But, apparently that does not apply to these authorities and so called leaders. 

Phiphat (and Prayuth) you have made history. 100 years from now, in the hospitality industry classes at the university level, they will still be teaching about you, as the man who presided over the once great industry of tourism, the man who helped destroy the industry millions depended upon. They will talk about you when the students are visiting the hollowed out shells, of once formerly great hotels, as the man who helped precipitate the demise and decline of Thailand, from the tiger of SE Asia (and at one time the 21st largest economy in the world) to a whiny, sickly, skinny, disease infested alley cat, on it's last legs. And on par with Burundi, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, Yemen, and Sierra Leone. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There are many issues affecting tourism. One is the worst possible tourism minister, that could be selected. How about just admitting that expectations for your performance as tourism minister were not met? You failed. You failed so spectacularly, that there are few comparisons to make. Phiphat is to tourism, what Tim Tebow and Ryan Leaf was to the NFL, Chris Washburn was to the NBA, Paulinho was to Tottenham, and Prayuth is to the office of PM. All dismal failures. All huge disappointments. All incapable of fulfilling hopes or expectations.

Tourism is not returning anytime soon. The average Thai seems to attribute this to Covid. And that is a significant factor. But, there were a dozen issues plaguing the industry long before covid reared it's ugly head, income was dropping dramatically, as the "number of arrivals" were up, pointing toward a dramatically lower quality of tourist, that Thailand was able to attract. The heavy hitters, and the wealthy tourists have found many other places that meet their need for a nice bottle of wine with dinner (that is not overpriced to a mind boggling degree), a sommelier at the hotel who knows their wine, reasonable luxury goods, so the wife can shop here while on vacation, law and order that addresses jet ski scammers, sewage being dumped into the ocean in resort areas, control over the taxi goons, and far better transportation options (high speed trains, helicopters available for transport, etc). And I am only getting started, as there were a dozen other things that needed to be addressed, and were not on any level, by anyone. 

They still have not learned much. This was a great learning opportunity for Phiphat, and the other goombahs. Obstacles and tragedies can be learning experiences, for mature men and women. And they can offer a path toward improvement, and progress. But, apparently that does not apply to these authorities and so called leaders. 

Phiphat (and Prayuth) you have made history. 100 years from now, in the hospitality industry classes at the university level, they will still be teaching about you, as the man who presided over the once great industry of tourism, the man who helped destroy the industry millions depended upon. They will talk about you when the students are visiting the hollowed out shells, of once formerly great hotels, as the man who helped precipitate the demise and decline of Thailand, from the tiger of SE Asia (and at one time the 21st largest economy in the world) to a whiny, sickly, skinny, disease infested alley cat, on it's last legs. And on par with Burundi, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, Yemen, and Sierra Leone. 

 

 

Cut my boy Tebow from the list of losers. Took Denver to the playoffs and won an exciting playoff game. The rest on the list you can throw in the dumpster of life.

[Pravda]

47 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Many hotels or "resorts" run by Thais are mostly dumps.

 

I'll stick with the international chains like Marriott, Hilton, etc when I go on a vacation.

 

I find I get more bang for the buck.

 

I don't like being nickel and dimed by some of these Thai owners.

 

  Extra for pillows, cheap coffee at breakfast, unkempt grounds.

 

This is my opinion.

I'm sure there are many nice Thai owned resorts.

Also with international hotel chain you won't get sued for defamation.

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

There are indeed sophisticated Chinese, those who do not descend like vultures on the buffet, and I've seen them elsewhere. But they have rarely come to a country with third-rate infrastructure like Thailand before the pandemic, and there is absolutely no reason at all that they should in the future to experience an industry that will be only a shadow of what it was before.

 

Who wants to invest in tourist hotels when there are no tourists? Perhaps Thailand will go back 30, 40, 50 years or more to when staying in a shack on the beach made the country such an attraction for many, with the 'posh' tourists staying in small and simple hotels. That might very well be Thailand's future, rather than five-star hotels and rich tourists flooding in. Those days are probably gone for good.  

Third rate infrastructure? Really? So, are those modern highways, airports, power supply, water, internet etc just hallucinations? Reflexive Thai-bashing much?

[Blumpie]

12 hours ago, petedk said:

If the Chinese buy them , then it is almost certainly money laundering. They will just fiddle the books.

 

Not to mention that once corporations get them they all set their prices upwards accordingly.  

 

[Albert Zweistein]

15 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Like many Thai women

I thought it's called "shorttime"  ?

[zzaa09]

7 hours ago, Pravda said:

Also with international hotel chain you won't get sued for defamation.

Indeed. As this rather hidden and unique protection racket extends to those who wish to bring unnecessary attention to themselves.

[cyril sneer]

17 hours ago, ozzydon said:

its ok the chinese will buy them at a price

This lab ‘leak’ is working out very well for them 

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Private helicopter ownership is illegal in Thailand. 

 

You need special permission to own and operate a helicopter fleet i.e. offshore flights for oil platforms etc.

Just another draconian and awful law, to give the undeserving military control of the skies. And just another reason why the super rich cannot be attracted to this place, amongst a dozen others. 

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Just another draconian and awful law, to give the undeserving military control of the skies. And just another reason why the super rich cannot be attracted to this place, amongst a dozen others. 

I wanted to open up a medical flight transport business here for transporting from an accident directly to a hospital. Golden hour you know, but nope can not.

Edited September 9, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[Bangkok Barry]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

Third rate infrastructure? Really? So, are those modern highways, airports, power supply, water, internet etc just hallucinations? Reflexive Thai-bashing much?

Your response came the morning after we lost electric power for four hours and I had to shower from a bucket of cold water by candlelight. We have power cuts at least once a month as the infrastructure barely works.

Whether water is drinkable is debatable. Making it so would, of course, hit the bottom line of the companies that supply bottled water at massively inflated prices. In my location, I can buy a 20 litre bottle for the price of a small 10 baht bottle in the store.

 

It is widely acknowledged that Thai highways are dangerously designed, especially the U-turns which result in numerous deaths every year.

 

As for other roads, try walking along many of the side roads in, say, the centre of Bangkok or Pattaya, without having to walk on the road and risking your life. And then there are the third-third masses of wires above the roads, sometimes resulting in fires or causing motorcycle accidents when they come loose and fall.

 

Airports, fine. Internet, fantastic.

[spidermike007]

14 hours ago, natway09 said:

The standard of  5 & 6 star hotels in Thailand is still exceptional value when compared to 

a similar standard in London & Australia (that have very few) of this calibre

You are talking a quarter to one third the price tag across the board & service is often still better in Thailand

Not true at all. During Covid maybe. Pre 2019, the prices were almost identical for the top hotels. There were alot of wanna be five stars like the Holiday Inn, and the Marriott, which were more reasonable. And the four stars have always represented a great value here.

 

But, the top hotels like Kampinski, Banyon Tree, Four Seasons, the Peninsula, Anantara, and luxury properties like the Amanpuri, Six Senses, Keemala Phuket, Kata Rocks, Soneva Kiri, and others, have always been in the $300-2,000 a night range, comparable to hotels in Paris, London, Moscow, Dubai, Hong Kong, Miami or elsewhere.