Are expats being tempted by Thailand?

[Astromambo]

I am from Southern Spain and lived in Thailand for half year.

 

Personally, I don't see many upsides compare to my place, not even in overall costs. Regarding the lifestyle, the biggest difference is local food and shopping in a big city like Bangkok, as well as some exotic beaches (there is very little that can be labeled 'exotic' in my country AFAIK).

 

Eating out in Spain is usually quite more expensive and not as tasty, though portions are more generous (and much less spicy!). I think the biggest issue for retirees with a limited income would be renting. In places like Málaga, rents has gone up quite a bit the last few years. This is the cheapest you can find in Málaga at the moment, but a rent for a normal flat is now going for about 600 euros/month: https://www.idealista.com/en/alquiler-viviendas/malaga-malaga/?ordenado-por=precios-asc

 

In any case, my impression is that Thailand has shifted its focus on South East Asians. I know for a fact Thailand is a big destination for Hong Kongers and Mainland Chinese. Their cultures are much closer to each other as well, so for SE Asians it is a much more natural destination. As a Westerner though, Thailand is a nice place to visit, but I still prefer Southern Europe (or Australia, etc.). Of course, my Asian wife has the exact opposite preferences. She appreciates the eateries, the shopping, the closer culture, etc., and is more willing to put up with the bureaucracy. She finds Spain quite boring and alien by comparison.

[Dalewhatdale]

7 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

I spent 8 years living in Spain, and was there last in 2014. Just had a visitor from Spain. If you look at the crime index I link below you will see that crime in Barcelona, Spain is worse than in Prague, Berlin, Sydney, with only New York, London and New Delhi with higher crime.

 

However, I actually expected it to be much worse, and I take your point that violent crime is not disproportionately high. It's just I've had countless reports of people having had their wallets stolen, and a close relative was a victim of organised burglary by an East European gang operating in Spain. The high unemployment in Spain also results in a highly degraded urban environment with so-called "Gamberros" perpetrating hooligan and petty crime, graffiti is an issue. That's from my own experience.

 

It's not racist to say that Romanian and African crime gangs operate in Spain, they do, and as the statement makes clear it's both whites and blacks, I fail to see how it's racist. I know woke accusations are the fashion, but watch your tone when you interact with me.

 

I would not want to live in the country side in Spain. The Spanish people are fanstastic, I have travelled all over Spain from the very north in Asturias to Madrid and the Baleriac Islands. I've lived there almost a decade. I know the area and people well. However, there are almost no facilities in the isolated rural areas in Spain. Living costs are actually high. Unemployment is high, crime in the sense of theft, graffiti and hooligan crime, if not violent crime or murder, is a problem. The winters are clammy and unpleasant. I see no reason to trade Thailand for Spain, and I think Spain is a long way away from Thailand in terms of culinary options, massage quality, shopping and the climate in Thailand is better, as winters are not clammy. Thailand is a lot better than Spain for an expat who likes a more interesting life. Spain is a bit too boring.

 

 

https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Spain&city1=Barcelona&country2=Germany&city2=Berlin

Quote

"...so watch your tone when you interact with me"

Lol, who do you think you are?

 

You dont get to make openly racist statements and not get called out for it. Sorry if it comes across as "woke" or disrespectful towards your excellency.

 

Then you say you know "the area" (which one?) and the people very well, but a lot (in fact, most) of what you say confirms you don't know Spain that well. You may know Barcelona well, but you don't get to say "Spanish cities are overrun with crime" just from the figures in Barcelona. Barcelona does have a petty theft problem, but believe or not, there are many other cities in Spain besides Barceona. And Barcelona isn't even much worse than Berlin, as per your own chart.

Also, you're the first person I ever heard calling graffiti a crime, especially one that would make an expat decide against moving to a country. I see it as an annoyance and nothing more.

As for the "hooligans", again you may be talking about Barcelona, cause it's definitely not a major problem elsewhere, or at least not a problem the average expat would encounter in their daily life. I'll take grafitti before non-existing, or leg-breaking, riddled-with-holes and other obstacles sidewalks any day.

 

Then you go on:

Quote

"The winters are clammy and unpleasant."

Again, you're clearly talking about Barcelona; go elsewhere like parts of Southern Spain or the isles, and you can even get year-round beautiful, mild, sunny weather. You prefer your winters cold and dry? Go to the central area of the country.

 

Quote

"Unemployment is high"

So what? What do you care as a retired expat? Specially since this doesn't translate to significantly higher crime (petty theft or worse) than in even Berlin, as per your chart (what's the Crime Index, 42 in Berlin vs 47 in Barcelona? That's nothing).

 

Quote

"I think Spain is a long way away from Thailand in terms of culinary options, massage quality, shopping and the climate in Thailand is better, as winters are not clammy. "

These are all mostly subjective. I don't think Spain is a long way away from Thailand in culinary options at all, and I love Thai food and the Bangkok restaurant scene is really impressive in terms of international options. Massage? Sure. Shopping? No way, unles you're into big honking shopping malls. Not a lot of those in Spain, and most people don't want them anyway. As for the climate, again, it's personal. In most of Spain you get four seasons, in some parts with reasonably mild winters and summers. You prefer the year-round crushing heat and humidity in Thailand, sprinkled with dangerous-to-breath air during burning season in many areas? By all means. Just don't make it sound like a no-brainer, cause it's far from it.

 

Then you conclude with:

Quote

"Thailand is a lot better than Spain for an expat who likes a more interesting life. Spain is a bit too boring."

Which, again, it's down to personal taste. Cultural life in Thailand is pretty limited, road trips around the country are inherently life-threatening due to poor driving discipline and education, and lack of enforcement of road rules, etc. it's hard to run or play sports outdoors due to lack of facilities and the heat and humidity, I could go on.

If by "a more interesting life", you mean bars filled with poor young women waiting for older expats and their money, then yes, Spain is not for you.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Dalewhatdale

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, Dalewhatdale said:

Lol, who do you think you are?

 

You dont get to make openly racist statements and not get called out for it. Sorry if it comes across as "woke" or disrespectful towards your excellency.

 

Then you say you know "the area" (which one?) and the people very well, but a lot (in fact, most) of what you say confirms you don't know Spain that well. You may know Barcelona well, but you don't get to say "Spanish cities are overrun with crime" just from the figures in Barcelona. Barcelona does have a petty theft problem, but believe or not, there are many other cities in Spain besides Barceona. And Barcelona isn't even much worse than Berlin, as per your own chart.

Also, you're the first person I ever heard calling graffiti a crime, especially one that would make an expat decide against moving to a country. I see it as an annoyance and nothing more.

As for the "hooligans", again you may be talking about Barcelona, cause it's definitely not a major problem elsewhere, or at least not a problem the average expat would encounter in their daily life. I'll take grafitti before non-existing, or leg-breaking, riddled-with-holes and other obstacles sidewalks any day.

 

Then you go on:

Again, you're clearly talking about Barcelona; go elsewhere like parts of Southern Spain or the isles, and you can even get year-round beautiful, mild, sunny weather. You prefer your winters cold and dry? Go to the central area of the country.

 

So what? What do you care as a retired expat? Specially since this doesn't translate to significantly higher crime (petty theft or worse) than in even Berlin, as per your chart (what's the Crime Index, 42 in Berlin vs 47 in Barcelona? That's nothing).

 

These are all mostly subjective. I don't think Spain is a long way away from Thailand in culinary options at all, and I love Thai food and the Bangkok restaurant scene is really impressive in terms of international options. Massage? Sure. Shopping? No way, unles you're into big honking shopping malls. Not a lot of those in Spain, and most people don't want them anyway. As for the climate, again, it's personal. In most of Spain you get four seasons, in some parts with reasonably mild winters and summers. You prefer the year-round crushing heat and humidity in Thailand, sprinkled with dangerous-to-breath air during burning season in many areas? By all means. Just don't make it sound like a no-brainer, cause it's far from it.

 

Then you conclude with:

Which, again, it's down to personal taste. Cultural life in Thailand is pretty limited, road trips around the country are inherently life-threatening due to poor driving discipline and education, and lack of enforcement of road rules, etc. it's hard to run or play sports outdoors due to lack of facilities and the heat and humidity, I could go on.

If by "a more interesting life", you mean bars filled with poor young women waiting for older expats and their money, then yes, Spain is not for you.

I think you nailed that.

 

In terms of 'things to do'. My God, Spain boring, I don't think so.

 

Comparing what 'things to do' are available in Spain versus Thailand it doesn't even compare.

 

Now if you mean 'can I have sex with women a third of my age for money' as things to do, well of course Thailand will win hands down.

 

I'm an Hispanic American and I've been to Spain many times over my lifetime, and I can tell you I have never once been bored, whereas living in Thailand for over a decade, yep I've been bored!

[Rampant Rabbit]

Yes oh  boy yes they are,  like a  slap  in the face with a wet  Haddock.

[olfu]

On 9/9/2021 at 5:51 PM, ezzra said:

If only the people in charge on bringing "rich" or any foreigners to retire in Thailand knew what they were doing this country would be full of them, but Thai people are inherently proud of their country and sovereignty and are fiercely opposing the move to allow foreigners to populate Thailand in big numbers hence the awkward cumbersome visa and permits regulations a foreigner has to put with to stay in this country... 

I doubt homeless in Thailand very proud of their country--yes, empty stomach override proudness.

[Rampant Rabbit]

6 hours ago, Dalewhatdale said:

I love Thai food

Ive yet to eat any Thai food  Ive enjoyed in 17 years, I find it  appalling.

[zzaa09]

34 minutes ago, olfu said:

I doubt homeless in Thailand very proud of their country--yes, empty stomach override proudness.

Are you at all familiar with what might be referred to as homeless in Thailand and the social/societal associations that are attached.

Edited September 13, 2021 by zzaa09

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I read a lot of posts about that, but personally I never experienced that at all. In every case I was treated respectfully, and in some cases the IO was helpful.

The problem with immigration IMO is that people higher up than those I had contact with are trying to make things difficult by inventing new and in some cases ludicrous requirements every year. The stupidity about the colour of the photo background and the colour of the pen are just 2 examples.

Well there is one guy usually handling reception where I go, who will very likely sour your day before you even get started. Plus their disregard at making you stand in line at a single bottleneck shows complete disregard for people. Once past that, it is usually fine. Colour of photo-background, and pen, well try renewing a UK passport and get it there.

[rabang]

15 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Thailand is a lot better than Spain for an expat who likes a more interesting life. Spain is a bit too boring.

 

 

 

A matter of taste. In Spain you can do many things outdoors from skiing to sailing or from beaches to bicycle. Thailand is too hot and humid for most things except lying on a beach. In Spain you can drive around the country, Thailand is very dangerous for that. Spain has multiple historical cities where one can walk around and tons of options close by in Europe and North Africa. Cities in Thailand are muggy, polluted, dirty, chaotic and ugly. So it is a matter of perspective what you consider exciting.

[John Drake]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:14 PM, tonray said:

Salted Egg Lays potato chips and Tom Yum flavored everything

Those Spicy Korean Ramen Noodle Lays are killers!

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Those Spicy Korean Ramen Noodle Lays are killers!

Shouldn't this be posted in the "Are expats being tempted by North Korea ?" thread ?

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Spain is as far from “boring” as you can possibly get.

Check out “Iberia” (James Michener). Spain is Rich in Deep Fascinating Unique Culture & History. MUCH more so than SE Asia which is relatively one dimensional I believe, for Westerners anyway. Forget Med Coast.

That is not representative of Spain at all.Like saying Pattaya is the real Thailand.

 

I prefer to live in Thailand when not working for Simplicity & Idyllic Cheap Tropical Island Weather. Somewhat fixed here by Family & Property…..

But very happy here

[DrJack54]

Most likely mentioned by others in previous posts...

...Bangkok Airports are excellent hubs to travel from.

Being a late bloomer to the world of travel, have found Thailand great place to live.

Places such as Japan, Vietnam etc, etc are so easy and cheap to visit. Of course these comments pre covid.

We all have our personal likes etc.

I read one post above where someone never eats Thai. Me personally is opposite.

 

I'm Bangkok for the convenience to airports and the beach locations. Koh Samet being the main go to. 

The Weather suits me perfectly here. 

I don't get the stories about rip offs and visa (extension) concerns along with the daily complaining.

My time here has been walk in the park and have found Thai exceptionally friendly.

Haven't been here a lifetime. First arrived 10yr ago and very happy.

Helps that Oz only 8 and half hr direct flight which is great bonus for home visits. 

I don't live here because it's cheaper than farang world many other reasons to love Thailand.

[smutcakes]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Most likely mentioned by others in previous posts...

...Bangkok Airports are excellent hubs to travel from.

Being a late bloomer to the world of travel, have found Thailand great place to live.

Places such as Japan, Vietnam etc, etc are so easy and cheap to visit. Of course these comments pre covid.

We all have our personal likes etc.

I read one post above where someone never eats Thai. Me personally is opposite.

 

I'm Bangkok for the convenience to airports and the beach locations. Koh Samet being the main go to. 

The Weather suits me perfectly here. 

I don't get the stories about rip offs and visa (extension) concerns along with the daily complaining.

My time here has been walk in the park and have found Thai exceptionally friendly.

Haven't been here a lifetime. First arrived 10yr ago and very happy.

Helps that Oz only 8 and half hr direct flight which is great bonus for home visits. 

I don't live here because it's cheaper than farang world many other reasons to love Thailand.

Same here- i dont get all the whinging.

Not sure what other people hobbies are but personally mine are golfing, running, badminton, fishing and heavy boozing sessions with associated nocturnal shenanigans.

The options in Thailand to cover all of those within easy reach of home in BKK at sensible prices makes it a perfect place to live.

I dont have any visa issues as a PR holder- life is pretty damn good.

 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

Same here- i dont get all the whinging.

Not sure what other people hobbies are but personally mine are golfing, running, badminton, fishing and heavy boozing sessions with associated nocturnal shenanigans.

The options in Thailand to cover all of those within easy reach of home in BKK at sensible prices makes it a perfect place to live.

I dont have any visa issues as a PR holder- life is pretty damn good.

 

Copy that, but swap out the fishing for squash.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Not sure what other people hobbies are but personally mine are golfing, running, badminton, fishing and heavy boozing sessions with associated nocturnal shenanigans

I'm exactly the same apart from the golf, running, badminton and fishing.

[Tanomazu]

7 hours ago, rabang said:

A matter of taste. In Spain you can do many things outdoors from skiing to sailing or from beaches to bicycle. Thailand is too hot and humid for most things except lying on a beach. In Spain you can drive around the country, Thailand is very dangerous for that. Spain has multiple historical cities where one can walk around and tons of options close by in Europe and North Africa. Cities in Thailand are muggy, polluted, dirty, chaotic and ugly. So it is a matter of perspective what you consider exciting.

Actually Spain can be a lot hotter than Thailand, 40 degrees Celsius and more are regular occurrences. 

 

You don't have options close by Bangkok airport? A lot more than you have in Spain, even Madrid is not a major travel hub airport.

 

North Africa is an absolute dunghole, excepting a few places in Morocco. Who wants to go there?

 

Pollution, dirt, grime and graffiti are a major problem in big Spanish cities:

 

"Clogged streets and idling cars are the primary drivers of poor air quality in Madrid, road traffic alone can cause up to 90% of NO₂ concentrations in the city centre.¹ Madrid also struggles with PM2.5 concentrations that have exceeded World Health Organisation (WHO) targets. While the WHO recommends an average annual PM2.5 target of 10 µg/m³ or less, the average air quality in Madrid exceeded this target during three months in 2019.

 

More broadly, Spain as a country has been singled out by the European Commission for repeated non-compliance with regulations.⁷ Limit values on ambient air quality are set by EU legislation for particulate matter (PM), sulphur dioxide (SO₂) and NO₂."

 

https://www.iqair.com/spain/madrid

 

In the world pollution rankings Madrid is actually ranked ahead of any Thai city:

 

https://www.iqair.com/world-air-quality-ranking

[Tanomazu]

4 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Spain is as far from “boring” as you can possibly get.

Check out “Iberia” (James Michener). Spain is Rich in Deep Fascinating Unique Culture & History. MUCH more so than SE Asia which is relatively one dimensional I believe, for Westerners anyway. Forget Med Coast.

That is not representative of Spain at all.Like saying Pattaya is the real Thailand.

 

I prefer to live in Thailand when not working for Simplicity & Idyllic Cheap Tropical Island Weather. Somewhat fixed here by Family & Property…..

But very happy here

South East Asia is "one dimensional". Lol. Ok.

 

Spain had an interesting culture. In the distant past. Now you'll find bullfights are outlawed in Catalonia, Balearic Islands, and many other cities in Spain. Like most of Europe Spain lives of its achievements in the distant past.

 

I don't need to check out "Iberia" by Michener, I've lived in Spain for almost a decade. I know what the place is like.

 

Spanish people are great, but like many cultures in Europe they are very uninterested in the world beyond these days, you'll search a long time for a Spanish person that appreciates Asian, or any other, food. They think Jamon Serrano is the world's greatest culinary achievement. In fact the Spanish will call every Asian person a "Chino". There is no differentiation between Koreans, Japanese, or Chinese, because the Spanish do not know much of the world beyond and have no interest in it.

 

It is in fact Spain that is one-dimensional. However, this once grand dimension is now under attack from politically correct animal welfare people, who have cost thousands of jobs in one of the cultural markers of Spanish history, bullfighting, which is now banned in many cities in Spain, from immigrants from Romania, Poland, Czech Republic, Senegal, and other African cities. Spanish culture is barely hanging on.

 

It's so bad that even people who support crushing bullfighting into disappearance are now complaining that they can't even see the animals they used to see in popular fiestas because of the animal rights regulations in Spain.

 

https://www.eldiario.es/euskadi/blogs/viento-del-norte/tradiciones-desaparecen_132_2581938.html

[Tanomazu]

17 hours ago, Dalewhatdale said:

You dont get to make openly racist statements and not get called out for it. Sorry if it comes across as "woke" or disrespectful towards your excellency.

I said there were Romanian and African crime gangs operating in Spain. That is neither racist, as it clearly refers to both white and black people, nor is it inaccurate, it is very much the case, so spare me your faux woke hysteria.

 

17 hours ago, Dalewhatdale said:

Also, you're the first person I ever heard calling graffiti a crime, especially one that would make an expat decide against moving to a country. I see it as an annoyance and nothing more.

As for the "hooligans", again you may be talking about Barcelona, cause it's definitely not a major problem elsewhere, or at least not a problem the average expat would encounter in their daily life. I'll take grafitti before non-existing, or leg-breaking, riddled-with-holes and other obstacles sidewalks any day.

 

Graffiti is a crime. Last time I checked it is a form of criminal damage. It makes almost all cities in Europe more ugly, and I am extremely glad it is not a problem in Chiang Mai.

 

The Gamberros, or youngster hooligans, are a problem in every major Spanish city, they commit petty crime and vandalise the city. Often loudmouthed and fuelled with alcohol or stronger drugs, they significantly reduce quality of life in Spain. Their numbers are bigger than elsewhere because of the massive unemployment in Spain.

 

Granted, Spain has better side-walks than Thailand, and nobody builds promenades on the beach as well as the Spanish, but I never heard of anyone moving to a country because of side-walks.

 

17 hours ago, Dalewhatdale said:

Again, you're clearly talking about Barcelona; go elsewhere like parts of Southern Spain or the isles, and you can even get year-round beautiful, mild, sunny weather. You prefer your winters cold and dry? Go to the central area of the country.

 

Not at all. Ask anyone who's ever lived in the Balearic Islands, clammy and unpleasant winters are the norm. Made much worse by the fact that the quality of housing is exceptionally poor in Spain, poorer than Thailand in fact.  The houses are not built for the clammy winters and there is no airconditioning in most places for the hot summers.

 

I prefer my winters not cold at all. The 21.5 degrees in Chiang Mai are just about Okay. Average mean temperature in January in Palma de Mallorca is a whopping ten degrees less at 11 degrees. On climate Thailand wins hands down.

 

17 hours ago, Dalewhatdale said:

Cultural life in Thailand is pretty limited, road trips around the country are inherently life-threatening due to poor driving discipline and education, and lack of enforcement of road rules, etc. it's hard to run or play sports outdoors due to lack of facilities and the heat and humidity, I could go on.

If by "a more interesting life", you mean bars filled with poor young women waiting for older expats and their money, then yes, Spain is not for you.

Cultural life in Thailand is far less limited than cultural life in Spain, where animal rights lunatics have succeeded not just in banning bullfights in many cities, but also limited the use of animals in popular fiestas.

 

https://www.eldiario.es/euskadi/blogs/viento-del-norte/tradiciones-desaparecen_132_2581938.html

 

Of course driving in Spain is much better than in Thailand, it is better literally everywhere else in the world, as Thais are the worst and most inconsiderate drivers this side of Africa, however, given that flights are very cheap in Thailand you're better off flying to places in Thailand anyway. That's another advantage of Thailand, Bangkok is a major travel hub in Southeast Asia, Madrid is not a major travel hub in Europe. Spanish people who want to fly to Thailand or Japan often have to go via Germany. It's a terrible inconvenience for residents in Spain.

 

But you're right, Spain is not for me. Principally because it lacks the dining, massage and shopping options which Thailand offers, because I prefer Thai culture to Spanish culture (and I like Spanish culture), because the weather is better in Thailand, and because Thailand is just more interesting than Spain. The women are just a bonus, there's pretty women everywhere, including Spain, I've had a few Spanish girlfriends, however, here too, I think Thailand wins spectacularly. Slimmer, more graceful and considerably less facial hair.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Tanomazu

[Nickelbeer]

Thailand has traditionally been a retirement haven for those with modest retirement income. No truly wealthy individual would move here with all of the draconian laws aimed at curtailing what you can say, write or consume.  The wealthy head for enlightened European destinations.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

tanomazu: Yeah, from your long but superficial comments, you, and everyone with heavy Spain interest, really DOES need to read Michener’s “ Iberia”. Living in Spain for any period counts for nothing without TRAVELLING extensively throughout Spain, as I did during my four years working in Madrid. Sensational country. Many years not leaving Med Coast for example ,or Madrid even,does mean a person knows Spain, not even close……

 

yes, SE Asia is Great but for ONLY for the Simple Idyllic Lofestyle. 

Spain has that too …and SO much more. Festivals, Art, Sports, Theatre, Culture, Roman History & Architecture, Museums…….

2500 years of advanced civilization. world super power for 300 years. thailand cannot begin to match that…..started only 800 years ago up north, ancient chinese people, with basically little self- generated change since.

[Tanomazu]

34 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

tanomazu: Yeah, from your long but superficial comments, you, and everyone with heavy Spain interest, really DOES need to read Michener’s “ Iberia”. Living in Spain for any period counts for nothing without TRAVELLING extensively throughout Spain, as I did during my four years working in Madrid. Sensational country. Many years not leaving Med Coast for example ,or Madrid even,does mean a person knows Spain, not even close……

 

yes, SE Asia is Great but for ONLY for the Simple Idyllic Lofestyle. 

Spain has that too …and SO much more. Festivals, Art, Sports, Theatre, Culture, Roman History & Architecture, Museums…….

2500 years of advanced civilization. world super power for 300 years. thailand cannot begin to match that…..started only 800 years ago up north, ancient chinese people, with basically little self- generated change since.

I have travelled extensively throughout Spain and I have seen places you have not. Again, I've lived there 8 years, and went back there for  17 years after I no longer lived there, because I have relatives that live there. Unfortunately,  I have to say, because I have now realised that SE is much better, and I have to say I now give Spain a miss. It simply has gotten a lot worse. You won't be able to see bullfights in many Spanish cities, some of the fiestas are not what they used to be (animal rights restrictions), the many years of high unemployment coupled with urban degradation, anti-tourism activism due to tourism fatigue, the clammy winters and the poor quality housing that is not built for them, lack of aircon, immigration problems with Romanians, Africans etc, lack of world class shopping, high cost for everything from massage to restaurants to accomodation, I just don't see a reason to go anymore.

 

Yes, Spanish food is great, the people are fantastic, the climate is the best in Europe, however, Thai food is better, Thai weather is better.

 

Culturally, yes, Spain has better museums, and you can go to the opera there. However, that is not the culture we use every day. How often do you go to museums or operas? By comparison how often do  you get a Thai massage? I get one every week almost. Roman history, again totally pointless, and in any event less interesting than Ayodhya, Buddhist temples, plus Borobodur, Angkor Wat etc, are next door. Much more interesting than any Roman amphitheatre.

 

Spanish festivals are not what they used to be, thanks to the animal rights extremists, many are now different to what they used to be. Sports, well Thailand now has better golfers, but overall Spain does better, sure, however, no Muay Thai that compares and you can do pretty much any sport in Thailand.

 

You are completely wrong that SE Asia is great only for the simple idyllic lifestyle. Quite the opposite, it's the vibrant exciting, interesting cities, with far better shopping, far more options than anything Spain could even dream about in its wildest imaginings that are the real draw for me.

 

Spain of course has not had anywhere near 2500 years of advanced history, 2500 years ago you had primitive shepheards knocking of the heads of all native Spaniards. Not exactly advanced. For the longest time Spain was just a Roman colony. Then raped by the Goths. Then the Muslims. A Spanish culture to speak of only emerged in the 16th century, and a little later Spain was already in terminal decline.

 

The Sukhothai Kingdom of the 13th century was greatly advanced compared to anything in existence in Spain at the time. To claim that Spain is culturally superior because for a few years it participated in the odious colonial theft and thuggery others also indulged is like claiming the Netherlands are culturally superior to Germany because the former had more colonial history, which is just as ludicrous obviously.

 

I find Thai Buddhist culture, and SE Asian culture as a whole, far more interesting than the staid Roman ruins. The problem is most people do not know SE Asian history, and even SE Asians normally don't, it took a Frenchman to discover Srivijaya for instance.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Tanomazu

[chinasimon]

We can throw personal preferences and anecdotes around for days, but as a simple matter of fact Ultra High Net Worth Individuals move to

1) Rich, English speaking countries like Australia, the US, the UK, New Zealand (and Switzerland)

2) Warm European countries (Isreal, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Malta) or the Caribbean

3) Developed Asian city-states, namely Singapore and Hong Kong

Source: AfrAsia Bank - Global Wealth Migration Review 2018 & 2019

 

Asia overall - China being the frontrunner - has a large net outflow of these super rich people, and Thailand is likely no exception though there is no substantiated data that I'm aware of. 

 

Now a lot of reasons have been mentioned but Thailand is simply a good place for people with modest means, but not so much for really rich people. As a single digit millionaire it certainly is an option, if you have more money than that it's not. "Cheap and fun" nightlife just doesn't feature highly on their priority list, nor do tourist beaches. I honestly struggle to think of any advantages or benefits living in Thailand would offer an UHNWI. Occasionally visit? Sure, a couple of exclusive hotels and private islands offer a pleasant enough stay. 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by chinasimon

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, chinasimon said:

We can throw personal preferences and anecdotes around for days, but as a simple matter of fact Ultra High Net Worth Individuals move to

1) Rich, English speaking countries like Australia, the US, the UK, New Zealand (and Switzerland)

2) Warm European countries (Isreal, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Malta) or the Caribbean

3) Developed Asian city-states like Singapore and Hong Kong

Source: AfrAsia Bank - Global Wealth Migration Review 2018 & 2019

 

Asia overall has a large net outflow of these super rich people, and Thailand is likely no exception though there is no substantiated data that I'm aware of. 

 

Now a lot of reasons have been mentioned but Thailand is simply a good place for people with modest means, but not so much for really rich people. As a single digit millionaire it certainly is an option, if you have more money than that it's not. "Cheap and fun" nightlife just doesn't feature highly on their priority list, nor do tourist beaches. I honestly struggle to think of any advantages or benefits living in Thailand would offer an UHNWI. Occasionally visit? Sure, a couple of exclusive hotels and private islands offer a pleasant enough stay. 

 

Would agree 100%

 

The only query I would have as multimillionaire (in my dreams) why would I go anywhere in particular?

 

I would roam the world.

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, chinasimon said:

We can throw personal preferences and anecdotes around for days, but as a simple matter of fact Ultra High Net Worth Individuals move to

1) Rich, English speaking countries like Australia, the US, the UK, New Zealand (and Switzerland)

2) Warm European countries (Isreal, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Malta) or the Caribbean

3) Developed Asian city-states, namely Singapore and Hong Kong

Source: AfrAsia Bank - Global Wealth Migration Review 2018 & 2019

 

Asia overall - China being the frontrunner - has a large net outflow of these super rich people, and Thailand is likely no exception though there is no substantiated data that I'm aware of. 

 

Now a lot of reasons have been mentioned but Thailand is simply a good place for people with modest means, but not so much for really rich people. As a single digit millionaire it certainly is an option, if you have more money than that it's not. "Cheap and fun" nightlife just doesn't feature highly on their priority list, nor do tourist beaches. I honestly struggle to think of any advantages or benefits living in Thailand would offer an UHNWI. Occasionally visit? Sure, a couple of exclusive hotels and private islands offer a pleasant enough stay. 

 

Except they're not targeting UHNWI. They're targeting people who have a measure of wealth, not billionaires who, if they care about not paying taxes, have to be resident in Cayman, BVI, Nevada, but will spend their time as nomads all over the world anyway unless they're very old.

 

For people who have some money and make that money abroad Thailand has a major advantage:

 

"On international income, tax is only assessed if the income was earned in the year you bring the money into the country. ", it's like a joker, get out of jail free card, for expats who make money abroad. Try that in Europe or the US and you go to jail.

 

The problem Thailand has is political instability, for that reason alone no UHNWI would move there permanently. However, that does not stop people like Belinda Carlisle, net worth 14 million USD, from moving there permanently.

 

I've never heard of any UHNWI moving to Greece permanently or indeed Malta, they'd have to be insane to do so.

 

From your list I doubt many billionaires will move to HK any time soon. Same with UK, where they've now decided to crack down on billionaires buying up London real estate and you no longer get that EU passport. Israel? Sure, but not for the weather, more due to safety from prosecution as all the billionaires who've moved there are investigated for various crimes.

 

I also don't think Thailand's billionaire's are leaving in the same numbers as the Chinese, bar a couple of well known exceptions who left for political/prosecution reasons.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Tanomazu

[Tanomazu]

16 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Comparing what 'things to do' are available in Spain versus Thailand it doesn't even compare.

 

That's true, much more to do in Thailand than in Spain.

 

When was the last time you went to an Elephant sanctuary in Spain? A monkey show? An archery cafe? Thais are much more inventive.

[garyk]

Don't have to be rich to travel the world that is for sure. If you have a middle class income in the US you can live a nice life in most countries.

When I was in Asia the people that did not travel were people like on this thread. They just did not travel because they thought it was very expensive. Also for what I have seen in Thailand, the expats do not want to travel. They are happy squatting in one place.  It's whatever you enjoy, but traveling the world and living a fairly nice life is not very expensive.

The key IMO is not to be in debt. And learn to say NO. Works for me anyway.

Edited September 14, 2021 by garyk

[rabang]

7 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Actually Spain can be a lot hotter than Thailand, 40 degrees Celsius and more are regular occurrences. 

 

You don't have options close by Bangkok airport? A lot more than you have in Spain, even Madrid is not a major travel hub airport.

 

North Africa is an absolute dunghole, excepting a few places in Morocco. Who wants to go there?

 

Pollution, dirt, grime and graffiti are a major problem in big Spanish cities:

 

"Clogged streets and idling cars are the primary drivers of poor air quality in Madrid, road traffic alone can cause up to 90% of NO₂ concentrations in the city centre.¹ Madrid also struggles with PM2.5 concentrations that have exceeded World Health Organisation (WHO) targets. While the WHO recommends an average annual PM2.5 target of 10 µg/m³ or less, the average air quality in Madrid exceeded this target during three months in 2019.

 

More broadly, Spain as a country has been singled out by the European Commission for repeated non-compliance with regulations.⁷ Limit values on ambient air quality are set by EU legislation for particulate matter (PM), sulphur dioxide (SO₂) and NO₂."

 

https://www.iqair.com/spain/madrid

 

In the world pollution rankings Madrid is actually ranked ahead of any Thai city:

 

https://www.iqair.com/world-air-quality-ranking

Heat in Spain is seasonal. There are almost all kinds of weather at certain seasons in some parts of the country. In Thailand there is a hot and even hotter season and a rainy season. Only northern parts of the country have slightly cooler weather in winter. And Madrid is not an airline hub? It is THE European hub for flights to Latin America to begin with. Any regional airport in Spain has tons of options to fly all over Europe. I don't know about Madrid's pollution nowadays because the last time I was there was over 10 years ago but it is certainly not as dirty as any Thai city. And how about other Spanish cities, like Barcelona, San Sebastian, Sevilla, Toledo, Segovia, Valencia, Santander etc. etc. Most Thai cities are absolutely horrible in comparison. Bangkok has bigger malls, street food, some temples but that's it.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by rabang

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, rabang said:

Heat in Spain is seasonal. There are almost all kinds of weather at certain seasons in some parts of the country. In Thailand there is a hot and even hotter season and a rainy season. Only northern parts of the country have slightly cooler weather in winter. And Madrid is not an airline hub? It is THE European hub for flights to Latin America to begin with. Any regional airport in Spain has tons of options to fly all over Europe. I don't know about Madrid's pollution nowadays because the last time I was there was over 10 years ago but it is certainly not as dirty as any Thai city. And how about other Spanish cities, like Barcelona, San Sebastian, Sevilla, Toledo, Segovia, Valencia, Santander etc. etc. Most Thai cities are absolutely horrible in comparison. Bangkok has bigger malls, street food, some temples but that's it.

 

 

Yes heat in Spain is seasonal, but I know that at the height of summer 40 degrees is a regular occurrence. I regularly get complaints from relatives in that regard. Indeed the weather in Spain is very different in the north, which has green grass like Switzerland, cows everywhere, and its more windy and cold. I disregard those areas, because I would assume expats would gravitate to the warmer areas.

 

In Thailand btw, also the weather is different in Chiang Mai to Bangkok, and the weather in Ko Samui is again different to Chiang Mai. Still overall winters are warmer in Thailand and less clammy.

 

No, Madrid is not a major European airline hub like London or Frankfurt, which is why Spaniards who want to fly to Thailand or Japan often have to go via Germany. Yes Latin America, but not the whole world like London, Frankfurt, Bangkok.

 

San Sebastian is an exception, the nicest city in Spain. Valencia, Barcelona etc all have the big city problems. Chiang Mai is a lovely city btw and compares to Palma for instance in terms of history and old city vibe.

 

Madrid again, is ahead in the world pollution index, ahead of any Thai city.

 

 

https://www.iqair.com/world-air-quality-ranking

Edited September 14, 2021 by Tanomazu

[rabang]

14 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Yes heat in Spain is seasonal, but I know that at the height of summer 40 degrees is a regular occurrence. I regularly get complaints from relatives in that regard. Indeed the weather in Spain is very different in the north, which has green grass like Switzerland, cows everywhere, and its more windy and cold. I disregard those areas, because I would assume expats would gravitate to the warmer areas.

 

In Thailand btw, also the weather is different in Chiang Mai to Bangkok, and the weather in Ko Samui is again different to Chiang Mai. Still overall winters are warmer in Thailand and less clammy.

 

No, Madrid is not a major European airline hub like London or Frankfurt, which is why Spaniards who want to fly to Thailand or Japan often have to go via Germany. Yes Latin America, but not the whole world like London, Frankfurt, Bangkok.

 

San Sebastian is an exception, the nicest city in Spain. Valencia, Barcelona etc all have the big city problems. Chiang Mai is a lovely city btw and compares to Palma for instance in terms of history and old city vibe.

 

Madrid again, is ahead in the world pollution index, ahead of any Thai city.

Bangkok is not a worldwide airline hub unlike London and Frankfurt, although well connected to some parts of the globe. There are few direct routes to Africa and none to the Americas. Chiang Mai has been the most polluted city in the world for years during the burning season, I can not believe Madrid would ever "rise" to the same level. I believe you know Spain well though even if I am not totally convinced by your arguments but your tastes seem to simply differ and there is no reason in trying to change that. For example I am not a huge fan of the Thai cuisine in general, with some exceptions, but it is a matter of taste what one prefers.