10 hours ago, actonion said:

When will they ever get it into their thick skulls , the weathly tourists have far better places to go than Thailand ,  and it seems the working classes also want to go elsewhere

Yes, it’s not only South east Asia that has nice beaches, or did have, before they became polluted ! Wealthy people go to the South of France, look at the price of villas on the Cap D Antibes,  St Tropez,

Monaco etc. Sea water is checked every week there, and there’s a lot of blue flags flying. The restaurants are there, the,wine, the nightclubs, fashion brands, the lot. Wealthy people also live or have villas in the Caribbean, same lifestyle, or parts of Mexico, Belize, USA ,Polynesia.  Give me one reason why they would choose Thailand to spend their millions ? Don’t forget , they’re not generally stupid !!

Also, you want a beautiful hotel and beach? loads of normal tourists are taking their 2/3 week breaks in sunny Spain , Greece, Portugal , and yes loads go to the Caribbean.Thailand is not cheap for them.

 

9 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

If you have money, you don't have visa problems in Thailand.

maybe re-phrase that :- If you have money and plenty of brown envelopes , you don't have visa problems in Thailand 

Tempted? Yes, still. But not like 10 or 15 years before. Things have changed here. People less friendly, too much Chinese with their stinking tour busses, beaches and air polluted. 

But I'm still grateful. I had a very good time in Thailand, maybe the best of my life. Never problems with visa, no bad experiences with the folks here.

If I'd look for a place to stay now, Thailand would not be my choice. If my son was a bit older I would think about moving to the southern part of France.

If you have a Thai partner, you can buy land or build a house in her name.  Yes, you need trust and a good land lease.  Since you’re probably older than her/him, you’d probably bequeath the property to your partner anyway.  So not owning land isn’t a show stopper for some expats.  
The volatility of the Baht is the main drawback as I see it.  Also the lack of affordable health insurance gives one pause.  The high cost of imports—Thailand doesn’t make the best wine, clothing or cars.

In short, if the Baht sinks another 10%—we’ll forgive Thailand’s faults, and more will retire here.

6 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Will older men want to come and settle in Thailand? Hmmm, tough one, you mean the Thailand that comes with a sex-guarantee for older men? Hmmm, it's a tricky one, let me think, sunshine, cheap accommodation, easiest retirement visa in the world, vibrant culture, top 5 cuisines in the world, beaches, exciting cities, and oh yes, easy, slim, stupid women who give a sex-guarantee for older men. Really hard question.

 

Of course older men will come to settle in Thailand. Obviously not super rich, but those with a bit of cash who want live in the sun, have adventures, have sex, eat good food,will come. They've been coming for 40 years plus.

 

The thing is look at the alternatives:

 

1. France - ice cold in winter, women even colder, expensive.

 

2. Spain - like all of Europe dying cities, overrun by Africans, Romanians, extremely high crime in the cities, clammy winters

 

3. Italy - see Spain

 

4. USA - Too many crazies who will kill you, crumbling infrastructure, homeless everywhere, insane immigration requirements

 

5. Caribbean - Too far away, too expensive.

 

6. China - Too many Chinese

 

7. Phillippines - Terrible internet, crime, homeless everywhere

 

8. Vietnam - Too Chinese, too Communist, no visa options

 

9. Malaysia - Visa option too expensive, too many Arabs and Africans, too Muslim

 

10.  Indonesia - Terrible internet, crime, visa difficult

 

11. All of south America = insane crime rates.

 

Yes, all the complaints, tough residency requirements, expensive luxury tax, idiot driving, lack of ownership rights, that's all true, but these are small annoyances one can put up with.

 

Thailand is the only sensible choice really. Even Uruguay has a killer crime issue now, Panama is in the middle of nowhere.

 

Thailand is hands down, one of the most, if not the most, attractive options for expats.

Panama is actually a very sensible option .

36 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Tempted? Yes, still. But not like 10 or 15 years before. Things have changed here. People less friendly, too much Chinese with their stinking tour busses, beaches and air polluted. 

But I'm still grateful. I had a very good time in Thailand, maybe the best of my life. Never problems with visa, no bad experiences with the folks here.

If I'd look for a place to stay now, Thailand would not be my choice. If my son was a bit older I would think about moving to the southern part of France.

I just left the land of high taxes - France !    It now costs you best part of 1000euro for the mandatory house inspections BEFORE you can list your property !!!   Electric , fuel (especially on motorways) , vehicles , eating out , land and house taxes _____ list goes on --- astronomically expensive !    Things may have gone up a bit here but if you are prepared to live , buy and eat the Thai way then you are by far and long quids in !  

2 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

I just left the land of high taxes - France !    It now costs you best part of 1000euro for the mandatory house inspections BEFORE you can list your property !!!   Electric , fuel (especially on motorways) , vehicles , eating out , land and house taxes _____ list goes on --- astronomically expensive !    Things may have gone up a bit here but if you are prepared to live , buy and eat the Thai way then you are by far and long quids in !  

I know the good places in Europe are more expensive than Thailand. Ever were, ever will be. But it's not all about money.

When in Europe I spend much time in Montpellier/Cevennes and I like it. The food, the culture, the people, the climate. Friends live there and it's just a few hours drive to my home and company in Bavaria.

 

4 hours ago, Charlie Halliday said:

Thailand is great if you have a good marriage to a Thai... Makes life so much easier. Also being financially secure is a must. Depending on your age, but if say you retired here at 50, then you'd want zero debt, your properties fully paid up and depending on kids or no kids you'd need liquid assets of between USD2 and 5M parked off shore. Only bring in the cash you need for 12 months at a time. Leave the rest offshore. . Many do it on less but if you want to be comfortable then that's a good benchmark. 

Most expats looking to Thailand for a better retirement are operating off of far less than 2 to 5 MILLION dollars.  If you converted that figure to THB you might be more on track with the reality of the situation.  If you have money, everything that Thailand offers can be found better elsewhere.

15 minutes ago, Maha Sarakham said:

Most expats looking to Thailand for a better retirement are operating off of far less than 2 to 5 MILLION dollars.  If you converted that figure to THB you might be more on track with the reality of the situation.  If you have money, everything that Thailand offers can be found better elsewhere.

Where?

 

 

We are still waiting for the list of countries that gives us sth like a 20 year visa for 30 grand with territorial taxes? 

12 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There is very little about the place that is improving or moving forward, under the blind and toxic dinosaur leadership. 

.

 

Sorry, are you talking about Thailand, or the UK, or France, or Germany, or the USA?

.

Ha, ha. I actually received some Sad and Confused reactions to my post....

 

I am apolitical, all politicians today are corrupt scum, but if you sad and confused people don't think Sleepy Joe is a dinosaur, you are truly sad and confused. 

1 hour ago, Jen65 said:

Panama is actually a very sensible option .

That's what I thought. But if you look at the map Panama is Central America, so very far away from Europe and Asia, the most interesting cultured and luxurious places on earth. I don't know, it's too much in the outback of nowhere for me, Central America.

 

Also Panama's murder rate is higher than Colombia's or the USA's.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Edited September 10, 20214 yr by Tanomazu

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I thought you were saying rich people would retire in LOS, but perhaps I read it wrong. I consider anyone that spends 65k a month to be on the rich side. I lived well on half that, including rent in a very nice hotel with everything needed except food.

I honestly don't think that really rich people would be able to survive a month for 65k baht, perhaps not even a week  - 65k baht will pay bed & breakfast for little more than 12 hours in a Four Sesons-hotel in Thailand (I once checked their B&B low-season bargain offer of curiosity) - but perhaps a few days if they reduce their life-style to an absolute minimum...????

14 hours ago, actonion said:

When will they ever get it into their thick skulls , the weathly tourists have far better places to go than Thailand ,  and it seems the working classes also want to go elsewhere

And where are you?

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolutely not. There are a dozen valid reasons why very, very few wealthy ex-pats or tourists come here. 

 

The majority who come here are seeking value. If I were wealthy, I would not spend more than 2 months of the year here. Many feel the same way. 

 

The rest is sheer delusion, brought on by decades of nationalist ranting, without any foundation in reality. 

 

Thailand is NOT the center of the known universe. If anything, Thailand now is a pale shadow of it's former self. There is very little about the place that is improving or moving forward, under the blind and toxic dinosaur leadership. 

As usual @spidermikespot on! ????

 

I'm not rich by any means , but I can afford to pick and choose where I spend some of my time. As I explained to you on another thread, I miss my annual "Snowbirding" 3 months in Thailand due to Covid but when (if?) travel recovers I shall NOT be tempted to spend longer than that in Thailand, a place I've been visiting since the mid-eighties, and where I HAD planned to retire.

I still love it and am VERY sad to see how the "government" has ruined it and have SO much sympathy for the Thai people especially at present.

 

That said, I agree with all your points and would add that Thailand no is longer the cheap destination it once was for those who are comfortable but not rich. For me, it's still just about VFM though for the 2/3 months we both mention.

Even if I was rich, I would still spend about the same amount of time in Thailand but would also do a lot more globetrotting based out of UK.

Edited September 10, 20214 yr by VBF

14 hours ago, DLock said:

 

I'm always intrigued at how someone could find a 3/10 flat footed, splay toed farm girl, with cheap make-up and minimal language skills attractive....and marry them...but maybe that's just me.

Some things are for rental.....NOT purchase ????

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Jeez... at my age I am no oil painting, but can punch above my weight.... vey easily in Thailand.

UK.... my choices are non-existent. 

But....... would it not be fair to ask if you're "punching above your weight" with (ahem) paid-for companions?

 

If so, you can do so in UK......it just costs more!  I don't know your age, but I've just become a pensioner and the money I'm not spending on travelling does get spent on "personal enjoyment"...which is as detailed as I'm going to get on this forum ???? except to say that I'm a believer in the adage "If it floats, flies or f***s, rent, don't buy"

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO most farangs that like living in LOS didn't move there to live as if they were back home, and it's very cheap to do so without all the ( IMO ) BS that we have to live with in the west.

 

Things like accommodation, food, public transport, dentists, vehicle maintenance are EXTREMELY cheap in LOS compared to western countries.

You are correct, BUT....... for me accommodation (UK) is paid for, except the taxes and routine maintenance.

I cook and raw food is not that expensive, public transport is FREE  now I'm a "crusty old pensioner" my dental plan is comparable but treatment is more expensive here but all my other health care is free, including prescriptions.

 

Not arguing with you for the sake of it, but there are "swings and roundabouts" here....IMO.

 

9 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

If I could take my wife and kid to my riverside UK home town now along the Thames, then I would not be staying in Thailand - covid allowing. 

 

Only out of interest, not baiting you understand, but why can you not....Covid allowing?

There are many Anglo-Thai couples in UK as I'm sure you know.

5 hours ago, geisha said:

Yes, it’s not only South east Asia that has nice beaches, or did have, before they became polluted ! Wealthy people go to the South of France, look at the price of villas on the Cap D Antibes,  St Tropez,

Monaco etc. Sea water is checked every week there, and there’s a lot of blue flags flying. The restaurants are there, the,wine, the nightclubs, fashion brands, the lot. Wealthy people also live or have villas in the Caribbean, same lifestyle, or parts of Mexico, Belize, USA ,Polynesia.  Give me one reason why they would choose Thailand to spend their millions ? Don’t forget , they’re not generally stupid !!

Also, you want a beautiful hotel and beach? loads of normal tourists are taking their 2/3 week breaks in sunny Spain , Greece, Portugal , and yes loads go to the Caribbean.Thailand is not cheap for them.

 

Only problem with that is that Spain, Greece, Portugal have the same summer season as UK. Part of the attraction of Thailand is the weather in our winter (December -April) is just perfect in Thailand. It's that "snowbird" thing again ????

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Where?

 

 

We are still waiting for the list of countries that gives us sth like a 20 year visa for 30 grand with territorial taxes? 

With 90 day reporting requirements.

If the Elite visa gave you a Thai passport, or maybe citizenship you might actually have a point but the fact is apart from not having to do yearly renewals of your temporary exemption its bereft of any advantages. You just have to do it every 5 years.

You keep banging on about this Elite visa as being some kind enticement for rich people to come here but get this.

Rich people got rich by not spaffing money up the wall on things which are pretty useless.

Do tell us why rich people should choose Thailand rather than the other many options they have.

16 hours ago, Maha Sarakham said:

Was this article written 10 years ago?  If yes, then maybe.

Ten years, how about 30 years or more. Buying land and houses or even apartments is very difficult in Thailand if you want to own it yourself. Then there are the visas to stay which are very restrictive and inconvenient. Tax concession? Well if having 800,000 baht in a non interest bearing Thai account is tax relief I'm a Chinaman...

 

Edited September 10, 20214 yr by George FmplesdaCosteedback
typo

16 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Well he’s certainly not talking about those other places, which have already ‘moved forward’ by ceding their lands, culture and rights to foreigners. Don’t blame Thailand not giving an inch, but those swathes of expats ready to spend big there should gen themselves up first. 

Which countries are you referring to?

 

14 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Which other option is availble where u can just buy a 20 year visa for 30 grand and be left alone with basically no paperwork? Yeh nothing...
 

u  mean the one where they can remove that visa at anytime for any reason as  stated in their  rules

1 hour ago, VBF said:

Only problem with that is that Spain, Greece, Portugal have the same summer season as UK. Part of the attraction of Thailand is the weather in our winter (December -April) is just perfect in Thailand. It's that "snowbird" thing again ????

Portugal  also  include  Madeira  whose temps in December in Funchal are easily 20c

It's like a bunch of these great minds have cloistered themselves away for a non-stop brainstorming session on how to revive tourism, and these ingenious ideas are continuously being sent out.

Someone send them a copy of the movie Jurassic Park, see what that inspires.

 

 

7 hours ago, Jen65 said:

maybe re-phrase that :- If you have money and plenty of brown envelopes , you don't have visa problems in Thailand 

No, if you have money you are able to get the proper visa without bribing people. People who can't meet the requirements need the envelopes.

Edited September 10, 20214 yr by FritsSikkink

2 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Ten years, how about 30 years or more. Buying land and houses or even apartments is very difficult in Thailand if you want to own it yourself. Then there are the visas to stay which are very restrictive and inconvenient. Tax concession? Well if having 800,000 baht in a non interest bearing Thai account is tax relief I'm a Chinaman...

 

To buy a condo is not difficult at all, except the 51%-Thai rule.

 

And why do you think the visa system is restictive and inconvenient? What's the problem? We're talking about long term stay, right? So, if a retiree, show them enough pension or deposit 800k in a bank. Make your 90-days visit and one time a year make your extension. No brown envelops or "agents" needed. Easy, isn't it?

If you're not able to, you belong to the people Thailand does not want to hang around in their country longtime. One may not like it, but it's their good right. And honestly, I remember the times when it was very easy to stay on monthly visa runs for years. I don't miss those people who disappeared after this option was closed.

If you're under 50 and not working, get an EV. Just a question of money.

 

I don't know where you're from, but compare with your home country's rules for strangers. Do they get retirement visas as easy as in Thailand? Can younger immigrants stay longtime without working and paying tax?  (And no, we do not talk about "asylum seekers")

Edited September 10, 20214 yr by JustAnotherHun

3 hours ago, VBF said:

Only problem with that is that Spain, Greece, Portugal have the same summer season as UK. Part of the attraction of Thailand is the weather in our winter (December -April) is just perfect in Thailand. It's that "snowbird" thing again ????

F L O R I D A /thread

5 hours ago, VBF said:

But....... would it not be fair to ask if you're "punching above your weight" with (ahem) paid-for companions?

 

If so, you can do so in UK......it just costs more!  I don't know your age, but I've just become a pensioner and the money I'm not spending on travelling does get spent on "personal enjoyment"...which is as detailed as I'm going to get on this forum ???? except to say that I'm a believer in the adage "If it floats, flies or f***s, rent, don't buy"

Of course, as the old adage goes, I have to spend a bit of money on them here, and usually I want to. 

Now I have not been to the UK for a couple of years now, but there is a plague of obesity that makes a lot of them repugnant to me... that was my recollection. I would also expect a far better attitude and service level in Thailand. Not being there in the UK, perhaps I get it wrong, but generally even attitudes to elderly men would hardly support a pretty girl on each side of me enjoying myself in the local Wetherspoons. Not many Go-Go bars in my home town, maybe a lap dance joint, no touch place, designed to empty your bank account. 

Edited September 10, 20214 yr by jacko45k

Not tempting me back. I left because of the pollution. Thailand and that area has undoubtedly the worst air pollution of any country I have ever visited. 

Retire there and choke to death several months of the year.