Op-Ed: Thai view on the new AUKUS alliance

[dinsdale]

Just now, Denim said:

So ,  just to be clear , you support China in its claim of all the South China Sea. You agree with its stance on Taiwan , you agree with the crackdown on the protesters in Hong Kong and you think that the protests at Tianamen square are just history and that the Chinese people strongly support everything the CCP is doing ?

There was no Tianamen square. That part of history has been erased and millions of young people do not know it happened. History has been rewritten and this only happens under a dictatorship.

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Because they're using the scaling back of Five Eyes to Three Eyes as a political propaganda weapon, obviously. They will portray America, UK and Australia as the agressor, it suits them very well. They will  not relish the prospect of Australia becoming a nuclear base, clearly. But all of that was already in place, or on the cards before. AUKUS does not change a thing really.

 

If you seriously think that the US, UK or Australia will push back against Chinese aggression for real, say if the Chinese would invade Taiwan, I think you're living in La La land. Clearly, we have seen with Afghanistan that the Americans will run and betray their allies even when it has real security concerns at stake, America is imploding really, domestically and militarily.

 

If a real aggression by China against Taiwan would happen the US, UK and Australia would do precisely nothing. Because they know any politician that risks American, UK, OZ soldier's lives for say Taiwan, or even more ridiculous, the South China Sea, would soon be voted out. Their voters do not want war.

 

And AUKUS is not about war, or resisting  Chinese aggression, AUKUS is about the economic interests of the US defense industry, which is playing up the Chinese threat to get more orders for drones etc. You can all rest assured, the US will do a runner again, before they let US soldiers die for Taiwan.

Do you honestly think China is a military match for the United States?

Good grief you would be lucky to even successfully invade Taiwan. It is no easy matter.

You might take a couple of islands but that would be it. 

[kennw]

7 hours ago, Denim said:

Rubbish.

 

Thailand is now a virtual vassal state of China so this parroting of the Chinese Communist Party line is to be expected.

 

The reality is that the Chinese have been steadily building up their naval strength , have built illegal island bases on China sea reefs , in fact have laid claim to the whole sea riding rough shod over territorial claims of the Philippines , Vietnam , Malaysia and Brunei. 

 

In addition they have made repeated promises to retake Taiwan by force, have repeatedly violated the air space of the above three countries and threatened retaliation against Japan or the USA should they try to come to Taiwans defense.

 

The Chinese Communist party is doing more to wreck the stability of the region than all the others combined. Make no mistake, they started this race themselves and expect everyone else to be intimidated by their threats. If they are foolish enough to start something they will quickly come to regret it. In the meantime they are hoping their bullying and swaggering will get them hegemony over the area without any interference. 

I totally agree with this poster, 

 

7 hours ago, Denim said:

Rubbish.

 

Thailand is now a virtual vassal state of China so this parroting of the Chinese Communist Party line is to be expected.

 

The reality is that the Chinese have been steadily building up their naval strength , have built illegal island bases on China sea reefs , in fact have laid claim to the whole sea riding rough shod over territorial claims of the Philippines , Vietnam , Malaysia and Brunei. 

 

In addition they have made repeated promises to retake Taiwan by force, have repeatedly violated the air space of the above three countries and threatened retaliation against Japan or the USA should they try to come to Taiwans defense.

 

The Chinese Communist party is doing more to wreck the stability of the region than all the others combined. Make no mistake, they started this race themselves and expect everyone else to be intimidated by their threats. If they are foolish enough to start something they will quickly come to regret it. In the meantime they are hoping their bullying and swaggering will get them hegemony over the area without any interference. 

I totally agree with this poster, and the logic in the Thai article is wrong. Australia had planned to buy 8 new subs using Diesel fuel, the new subs will use nuclear fuel, NOT nuclear weapons. Since the subs would have about a 40 year life why would anyone want to be locked into a hydrocarbon fuel when the world is hell bent on moving away from it. Australia's coastline is vast and stealth is the best way of monitoring it, as it currently does. Nuclear subs will do the job so much better, No need to surface to charge batteries, return to port for refueling etc.

[NeoDinosaw]

4 hours ago, phetphet said:

Not incorrect if using UK English

well said Sir !!

[steven100]

1 hour ago, GreasyFingers said:

So you have not been to Darwin in the NT or Derby in WA, as well as the upgrading of airports for the war machines.

 

Apart from that the subs wont be supplied for at least 10 years. Probably longer if the F-35 is any guide.

yes, i have been to both those facilities ... they are not US-AU military camps as such, they have a few Australian army personnel but that's about it.  Did you not understand my comment.

Australia NEEDS US- AUSTRALIA permanent defense facilities in the Top end period !!   I mean permanently stationed US F-35 Fighter jets and a 1000 army personnel.   If you want a show of deterrent,  then do it forcefully   !! 

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, kennw said:

I totally agree with this poster, 

 

I totally agree with this poster, and the logic in the Thai article is wrong. Australia had planned to buy 8 new subs using Diesel fuel, the new subs will use nuclear fuel, NOT nuclear weapons. Since the subs would have about a 40 year life why would anyone want to be locked into a hydrocarbon fuel when the world is hell bent on moving away from it. Australia's coastline is vast and stealth is the best way of monitoring it, as it currently does. Nuclear subs will do the job so much better, No need to surface to charge batteries, return to port for refueling etc.

It's more than that. The distance it can travel is only limited by food and the crew's sanity. These subs will not be patrolling the coastline of Australia for sure.

[zzaa09]

And lest, we're completely blind as to who the real boogieman is and their destructive ways. 

Historically as well as today.

[Tanomazu]

11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Do you honestly think China is a military match for the United States?

Good grief you would be lucky to even successfully invade Taiwan. It is no easy matter.

You might take a couple of islands but that would be it. 

A takeover of Taiwan plan would involve a blockade of the island and the bombing of key infrastructure (ports, runways, oil tanks, powerplants) that would paralyze much of Taiwanese activity within days. Second step would be a bombing of military outposts along the shore followed by a mass invasion of an army of hundreds of thousands of CCP soldiers sailing the Taiwan straight in a huge commandeered civilian fleet (fishing boats, cargo vessels, shuttles etc) along with their navy, with China maintaining A2/AD area denial of the region.

China's military is still no match for the US in a land war on neutral soil, but they would be fighting on home turf the type of war their whole military has been geared towards for decades now. The US Navy's edge in carrier groups would probably be denied by the threat of hypersonic missile swarms, and overall, China has the edge as they view Taiwan as an existential national goal towards which they are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of soldiers, while the American public is war-weary and has no real stake in Taiwan.

 

In contrast, American presidents from Trump to Biden have shown they are more concerned about votes. And their voters in the US do not want American soldiers to die in Afghanistan, Taiwan or the South China Sea. There is no point in having a superior military if you don't have the will to use it. And from Vietnam to Afghanistan, we have seen time and time again that the Americans are not willing to use it.

 

Ultimately however, your point is moot, I doubt very much China will be gearing up to invade Taiwan any time soon. Xi Jinping still has to consolidate his hold in China. The recent war on the media is because it is dominated by his rivals, and he wants to strengthen his hold in China. Much more likely is that China will not be goaded into doing something rash over Taiwan, despite its mad dog rhetoric, which is really for home consumption.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Tanomazu

[steven100]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

(not armed) submarines. 

that's real handy in a war      !   lol

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, steven100 said:

that's real handy in a war      !   lol

Not armed with nukes. Please be less selective with your quotes.

[Tanomazu]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You understand the two largest and best computer chip manufacturing companies on the planet are in Taiwan?

Do you think for one second the US would want those falling into the hands of China? Do you think the US would allow its supply of chips to be interrupted?

Think again.

The largest and best semi-conductor companies the world are:

 

1. Intel (USA)

2. Samsung (South Korea)

3. TSMC (Taiwan)

4. SK Hynix (South Korea)

5. Micron (USA)

6.Qualcom (USA)

7. Broadcom (USA)

8. Nvidia (USA)

9. TI (USA)

10. Infineon (Germany)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_industry

 

I don't know if you noticed, the supply of chips in the US and the whole world is already interrupted, and we've seen no war of any kind.

[mrfill]

I thought the acronym was a bit strange, ordering in ascending population size but then realised that done the other way round it would have ended up as USUKA, which might not look good....

[NeoDinosaw]

10 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

The largest and best semi-conductor companies the world are:

 

1. Intel (USA)

2. Samsung (South Korea)

3. TSMC (Taiwan)

4. SK Hynix (South Korea)

5. Micron (USA)

6.Qualcom (USA)

7. Broadcom (USA)

8. Nvidia (USA)

9. TI (USA)

10. Infineon (Germany)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_industry

 

I don't know if you noticed, the supply of chips in the US and the whole world is already interrupted, and we've seen no war of any kind.

Jesus !   is there a threat to the supply of chips ?  What will we eat with our fish on Friday ?

[Rookiescot]

16 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

A takeover of Taiwan plan would involve a blockade of the island and the bombing of key infrastructure (ports, runways, oil tanks, powerplants) that would paralyze much of Taiwanese activity within days. Second step would be a bombing of military outposts along the shore followed by a mass invasion of an army of hundreds of thousands of CCP soldiers sailing the Taiwan straight in a huge commandeered civilian fleet (fishing boats, cargo vessels, shuttles etc) along with their navy, with China maintaining A2/AD area denial of the region.

China's military is still no match for the US in a land war on neutral soil, but they would be fighting on home turf the type of war their whole military has been geared towards for decades now. The US Navy's edge in carrier groups would probably be denied by the threat of hypersonic missile swarms, and overall, China has the edge as they view Taiwan as an existential national goal towards which they are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of soldiers, while the American public is war-weary and has no real stake in Taiwan.

 

In contrast, American presidents from Trump to Biden have shown they are more concerned about votes. And their voters in the US do not want American soldiers to die in Afghanistan, Taiwan or the South China Sea. There is no point in having a superior military if you don't have the will to use it. And from Vietnam to Afghanistan, we have seen time and time again that the Americans are not willing to use it.

 

Ultimately however, your point is moot, I doubt very much China will be gearing up to invade Taiwan any time soon. Xi Jinping still has to consolidate his hold in China. The recent war on the media is because it is dominated by his rivals, and he wants to strengthen his hold in China. Much more likely is that China will not be goaded into doing something rash over Taiwan, despite its mad dog rhetoric, which is really for home consumption.

That is the best laugh I have had in a long time. An invasion by fishing boats? Swarms of hypersonic missiles? 

Absolute fantasy.

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

The largest and best semi-conductor companies the world are:

 

1. Intel (USA)

2. Samsung (South Korea)

3. TSMC (Taiwan)

4. SK Hynix (South Korea)

5. Micron (USA)

6.Qualcom (USA)

7. Broadcom (USA)

8. Nvidia (USA)

9. TI (USA)

10. Infineon (Germany)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_industry

 

I don't know if you noticed, the supply of chips in the US and the whole world is already interrupted, and we've seen no war of any kind.

Who makes Intels chips?

Heres a clue. Its not Intel.

[Tanomazu]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Who makes Intels chips?

Heres a clue. Its not Intel.

Intel has manufacturing and assembly/test facilities in China, Israel, Ireland, Malaysia, Vietnam, and the United States of America.

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000029951/processors/intel-xeon-processors.html

 

They seem rather well diversified in terms of production locations if you ask me.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Tanomazu

[dinsdale]

12 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

They used to be bulldogs, now they're little more than American poodles.

 

The Aussies, lol, yes they're so hard they're running between America's legs to get some modicum of protection from big bad China. Real hard, lol.

 

Anyway, that's beside the point, the US military needs nobody to defeat the Chinese military in a land war, however, the point is that as we saw with Afghanistan, US voters do not want American soldiers dying in Afghanistan, Taiwan, South China or any other far away land. That's why both Trump and Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, to get US votes.

 

If China were mad enough to invade Taiwan, which obviously they are not, and have not done for decades, then the US would do nothing in terms of military response that would involve US soldiers on the ground. The US do not have the will to use their military, as we saw in Afghanistan.

Not about protection mate. It's about keeping a madman called Xi Jinping in check for the sake of the world. The bloke is 100% insane with power.

Edited September 21, 2021 by dinsdale

[gearbox]

7 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

They used to be bulldogs, now they're little more than American poodles.

 

The Aussies, lol, yes they're so hard they're running between America's legs to get some modicum of protection from big bad China. Real hard, lol.

 

Anyway, that's beside the point, the US military needs nobody to defeat the Chinese military in a land war, however, the point is that as we saw with Afghanistan, US voters do not want American soldiers dying in Afghanistan, Taiwan, South China or any other far away land. That's why both Trump and Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, to get US votes.

 

If China were mad enough to invade Taiwan, which obviously they are not, and have not done for decades, then the US would do nothing in terms of military response that would involve US soldiers on the ground. The US do not have the will to use their military, as we saw in Afghanistan.

There won't be any significant direct land war, sea war, or any other conventional war between nuclear armed states with ICBM.

The rest are fantasies of third grade farangs living in Thailand on home countries' welfare.

[candide]

16 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

A takeover of Taiwan plan would involve a blockade of the island and the bombing of key infrastructure (ports, runways, oil tanks, powerplants) that would paralyze much of Taiwanese activity within days. Second step would be a bombing of military outposts along the shore followed by a mass invasion of an army of hundreds of thousands of CCP soldiers sailing the Taiwan straight in a huge commandeered civilian fleet (fishing boats, cargo vessels, shuttles etc) along with their navy, with China maintaining A2/AD area denial of the region.

China's military is still no match for the US in a land war on neutral soil, but they would be fighting on home turf the type of war their whole military has been geared towards for decades now. The US Navy's edge in carrier groups would probably be denied by the threat of hypersonic missile swarms, and overall, China has the edge as they view Taiwan as an existential national goal towards which they are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of soldiers, while the American public is war-weary and has no real stake in Taiwan.

 

In contrast, American presidents from Trump to Biden have shown they are more concerned about votes. And their voters in the US do not want American soldiers to die in Afghanistan, Taiwan or the South China Sea. There is no point in having a superior military if you don't have the will to use it. And from Vietnam to Afghanistan, we have seen time and time again that the Americans are not willing to use it.

 

Ultimately however, your point is moot, I doubt very much China will be gearing up to invade Taiwan any time soon. Xi Jinping still has to consolidate his hold in China. The recent war on the media is because it is dominated by his rivals, and he wants to strengthen his hold in China. Much more likely is that China will not be goaded into doing something rash over Taiwan, despite its mad dog rhetoric, which is really for home consumption.

Exactly! Most posters here are blinded by short-termism. China is playing the long game. Governed by the same party over time, and likely by Xi untill 2035.

 

A long-term perspective would allow to understand that:

- China's moves are just part of a long-term strategy: progressively increase pressure until they are able to control Taiwan in one way or another.

- if it cannot be achieved peacefully, they may resort to war, and as you mention, not on short-term. If Xi is factored in, it will be likely in the 2030s. If they do it, they will do it when they are strong enough (easy, It's just another 10 years plan for them), and when external conditions are good (I.e. a political crisis in the U.S.). They will wait for the right time. The only accelerating factor is Xi's alleged will to achieve it before retiring.

- the regime's efforts to gain back control of the youth and encourage boy to be more "virile" should also be understood in this perspective.

[Tanomazu]

4 minutes ago, gearbox said:

There won't be any significant direct land war, sea war, or any other conventional war between nuclear armed states with ICBM.

The rest are fantasies of third grade farangs living in Thailand on home countries' welfare.

Absolutely correct.

 

Neither will China give the US an excuse to bomb its economy, nor do the US have the will to go to war over Taiwan or the South China sea.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

AUKUS, like I said, is more about the interests of the US defense industry, that want to play up war with China to increase drone orders, submarine sales, and the like.

[Tanomazu]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

Exactly! Most posters here are blinded by short-termism. China is playing the long game. Governed by the same party over time, and likely by Xi untill 2035.

 

A long-term perspective would allow to understand that:

- China's moves are just part of a long-term strategy: progressively increase pressure until they are able to control Taiwan in one way or another.

- if it cannot be achieved peacefully, they may resort to war, and as you mention, not on short-term. If Xi is factored in, it will be likely in the 2030s. If they do it, they will do it when they are strong enough (easy, It's just another 10 years plan for them), and when external conditions are good (I.e. a political crisis in the U.S.). They will wait for the right time. The only accelerating factor is Xi's alleged will to achieve it before retiring.

- the regime's efforts to gain back control of the youth and encourage boy to be more "virile" should also be understood in this perspective.

Exactly right. We can see by Xi Jinping's war on his media companies, which are largely controlled by his rivals, that he is jockeying for power in China. He is consolidating his hold domestically. In these circumstances it would be hard to see a war with Taiwan.

 

China is very much playing a long term strategic hand. And they do not need to invade Taiwan. Already in Afghanistan we have seen that US military power is imploding and weakening. It would be crazy for China to risk US air strikes over Taiwan when its economy still has a long way to go to mature and the US are doing China the favour of imploding domestically and militarily all by themselves.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Tanomazu

[candide]

41 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You understand the two largest and best computer chip manufacturing companies on the planet are in Taiwan?

Do you think for one second the US would want those falling into the hands of China? Do you think the US would allow its supply of chips to be interrupted?

Think again.

I give you a clue: aren't Biden and the EU aiming at taking back control of (and bringing home) strategic supply chains, in particular of semi-conductors?

[Tanomazu]

16 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Not about protection mate. It's about keeping a madman called Xi Jinping in check for the sake of the world. The bloke is 100% insane with power.

It would be very nice if China's expansion could be checked in the South China Sea, indeed all over South East Asia. However, such a goal can not be accomplished with a silly Five Eyes, Three Eyes, AUKUS, or some such nonsense.

 

The only way to truly check Chinese power is to destroy it, to fight it. And as we saw in the Hindukush, the American's don't even have the stomach to take on stone age Afghan Taleban fighters. Their voters do not want American soldiers to die in Afghanistan, Taiwan or the South China sea. That is why American presidents from Trump to Biden wanted to withdraw the military from Afghanistan, they want votes.

 

American could easily bomb China. However, that would risk nuclear retaliation by China. America, for voter reasons, for self preservation, would never ever go to war with China. It would be insane.

 

So they are trying to project what they can't put in place, power on the ground. By calling on Australia to drive a few submarines around, maybe become a nuclear power down the line (which Australian voters would never go for I suspect).

 

Ultimately, China holds all the cards. It's economy is the world's strongest. It's population the world's largest. You can not really defeat China. They could hardly defeat Germany, which had far less people than China, far less economic clout. It's ludicrous.

 

All AUKUS is is simply a scaled back Five Eyes, an open declaration that the Anglos will spy on everyone else. It doesn't mean a thing. In real terms.

[dinsdale]

19 minutes ago, gearbox said:

There won't be any significant direct land war, sea war, or any other conventional war between nuclear armed states with ICBM.

The rest are fantasies of third grade farangs living in Thailand on home countries' welfare.

ICBM's will not be used. MAD is still here. Dr. Strangelove: How I stopped worrying and learned to love the bomb.

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

It would be very nice if China's expansion could be checked in the South China Sea, indeed all over South East Asia. However, such a goal can not be accomplished with a silly Five Eyes, Three Eyes, AUKUS, or some such nonsense.

 

The only way to truly check Chinese power is to destroy it, to fight it. And as we saw in the Hindukush, the American's don't even have the stomach to take on stone age Afghan Taleban fighters. Their voters do not want American soldiers to die in Afghanistan, Taiwan or the South China sea. That is why American presidents from Trump to Biden wanted to withdraw the military from Afghanistan, they want votes.

 

American could easily bomb China. However, that would risk nuclear retaliation by China. America, for voter reasons, for self preservation, would never ever go to war with China. It would be insane.

 

So they are trying to project what they can't put in place, power on the ground. By calling on Australia to drive a few submarines around, maybe become a nuclear power down the line (which Australian voters would never go for I suspect).

 

Ultimately, China holds all the cards. It's economy is the world's strongest. It's population the world's largest. You can not really defeat China. They could hardly defeat Germany, which had far less people than China, far less economic clout. It's ludicrous.

 

All AUKUS is is simply a scaled back Five Eyes, an open declaration that the Anglos will spy on everyone else. It doesn't mean a thing. In real terms.

Now there's a thing. Within an hour of China trying to invade Taiwan (in their fishing boats) the western countries would immediately impose an embargo of ALL Chinese goods.

Chinas economy collapses.

Now your military are getting pumped and your economy is pumped. 

Go for it China. Give us all a laugh.

[mfd101]

Singapore has - in addition to the Philippines - expressed its full support for Oz acquisition of nuclear-powered subs. This was in separate conversations between the 2 PMs and the 2 Defence Ministers.

 

Singapore already regularly hosts US nuclear subs.

[herfiehandbag]

7 hours ago, dinsdale said:

US, Britain, Australia, Japan and India. China should be very careful. I've been saying for years that the CCP are the biggest threat to global stability.  If there is a war what will Thailand do? 

Keep out of it if they have any sense. It would almost certainly take part on the seas, and the Gulf of Thailand will be of no interest, nor will their little bit of the Andaman coast.

Edited September 21, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[dinsdale]

8 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

It would be very nice if China's expansion could be checked in the South China Sea, indeed all over South East Asia. However, such a goal can not be accomplished with a silly Five Eyes, Three Eyes, AUKUS, or some such nonsense.

 

The only way to truly check Chinese power is to destroy it, to fight it. And as we saw in the Hindukush, the American's don't even have the stomach to take on stone age Afghan Taleban fighters. Their voters do not want American soldiers to die in Afghanistan, Taiwan or the South China sea. That is why American presidents from Trump to Biden wanted to withdraw the military from Afghanistan, they want votes.

 

American could easily bomb China. However, that would risk nuclear retaliation by China. America, for voter reasons, for self preservation, would never ever go to war with China. It would be insane.

 

So they are trying to project what they can't put in place, power on the ground. By calling on Australia to drive a few submarines around, maybe become a nuclear power down the line (which Australian voters would never go for I suspect).

 

Ultimately, China holds all the cards. It's economy is the world's strongest. It's population the world's largest. You can not really defeat China. They could hardly defeat Germany, which had far less people than China, far less economic clout. It's ludicrous.

 

All AUKUS is is simply a scaled back Five Eyes, an open declaration that the Anglos will spy on everyone else. It doesn't mean a thing. In real terms.

The fact is Xi Jinping has created this situation. China has the largest population but it isn't the world's strongest econonmy. It has the biggest standing army but not the best. The old charge and overrun with numbers just will not work. Without Russia's backing there is no chance China could win a conventional war. With Russia's backing it will be WWIII and this will not be good. All of this because of some idiots megalomania. 

[Tanomazu]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Now there's a thing. Within an hour of China trying to invade Taiwan (in their fishing boats) the western countries would immediately impose an embargo of ALL Chinese goods.

Chinas economy collapses.

Now your military are getting pumped and your economy is pumped. 

Go for it China. Give us all a laugh.

Except the US tried that with Huawei and failed miserably. Even banned Huawei from the Google universe. Net result? Chinese phone maker Xiaomi overtakes Samsung and Iphone.

 

"For instance, US restrictions on vital chips and the use of key Google services has crippled Huawei’s smartphone sales around the world. But as it turns out, thus far the real winner in this instance is another Chinese telecoms company, Xiaomi. Recently labeled the “World’s Hottest Smartphone Brand,” Xiaomi sold more phones in June than Samsung and in the second quarter of 2021 jumped past Apple to become number two in world sales. "

 

https://www.aei.org/technology-and-innovation/whats-up-with-huawei-and-whats-up-with-the-biden-administrations-endless-china-policy-review/

 

You seem to forget that China has markets all over the world, the US is just one market among many, the UK and Australia don't even matter at all in terms of markets for China.

 

 

[Rookiescot]

Just now, Tanomazu said:

Except the US tried that with Huawei and failed miserably. Even banned Huawei from the Google universe. Net result? Chinese phone maker Xiaomi overtakes Samsung and Iphone.

 

"For instance, US restrictions on vital chips and the use of key Google services has crippled Huawei’s smartphone sales around the world. But as it turns out, thus far the real winner in this instance is another Chinese telecoms company, Xiaomi. Recently labeled the “World’s Hottest Smartphone Brand,” Xiaomi sold more phones in June than Samsung and in the second quarter of 2021 jumped past Apple to become number two in world sales. "

 

https://www.aei.org/technology-and-innovation/whats-up-with-huawei-and-whats-up-with-the-biden-administrations-endless-china-policy-review/

 

You seem to forget that China has markets all over the world, the US is just one market among many, the UK and Australia don't even matter at all in terms of markets for China.

 

 

Your domestic economy is not big enough to support itself. You need foreign markets. Trade embargo by the west mean economic collapse.