Dual pricing at Thai hospital case: Decision delayed after case handed to judges

[Keesters]

16 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I tend to think that even if the law suit finds in favor of banning dual pricing, hospitals will ignore it like most laws are ignored in Thailand.

 

A rather more serious problem in hospitals is unnecessary treatment especially at end of life. I recently had a friend die in a private hospital in an ICU. The staff kept pressing his wife to agree to a very expensive op that would have done nothing to help his chances of survival. He died a few days later having racked up more than a million in ICU fees. 

Every farang has an ???? machine next to his hospital bed. 

 

Same goes for Thai hospices. You live till your money runs out then

you die. 

[Keesters]

44 minutes ago, khunPer said:

In my modest view, it's a question of balance. Western foreigners might require little more service than Thais - as for example one poster mentioned, "expectations that hospital staff speaks English language" - and might thereby costs little more to handle, so a modest difference is acceptable.

 

The question is however, what is "a modest difference"..?

 

10 percent, or perhaps little more, would in my view be Okay, but when it comes to 50 percent, or double price, or even more, the balance begins to slide away from reasonable explanations...????

So if a foreigner can speak reasonable Thai, as I can after almost 40 years here, the price they pay is the same as a Thai national. 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, Boyblue said:

sllightly off topic, but similar, i had a coconut tree overhanging my roof, it was actually in my Thai neighbours garden, twice coconuts fell and smashed my roof tiles, i asked him to trim it so it wasnt over hanging, he wanted 10,000 to remove it. so i went to the local Police station, explained that i should be allowed to cut anything that overhung my property.

 

The Police agreed and said that was law in Thailand to be able to trim the tree, but we cant do anything for you and you cant do it yourself because "Farangs have no voice in Thailand".... directly from the RTP..... so i had to pay the neigbour to remove the tree, he wouldnt trim it down. so will Mr Buse have a voice? only time will tell.... good luck and well done for standing up for us all....

Lighting a large fire underneath the overhanging parts usually works wonders.

[The Farang]

Not saying it's right,  but the only ones complaining are the ones that don't have a lot of money.  Honestly,  if you go to the hospital in your own country I am sure its 3x's more, which is probably why he's in Thailand.   Not only that,  if you're insured you're not paying anything.   I mean, you really have no say on how someone runs their own country.  Like it or not.  Why in the world would you go stay in another country and not have health insurance then complain they charge you more.

Edited September 23, 2021 by The Farang

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, Staxer said:

Skeptik7. Why are you here if that is how you feel ?

Been here a LONG time Stax and consider it my home. Like it here a lot for myriad reasons...but that doesn't dictate I love everything about it. Same goes for my native country. 

[intergs]

I commend the Dutchman for going through this troubles also helping us.
I will recommend him for the Nobel-Price when he succeeds????

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, intergs said:

I commend the Dutchman for going through this troubles also helping us.
I will recommend him for the Nobel-Price when he succeeds????

A very Freudian slip... will it be the “Nobel-Dual-Price’ you recommend him for ? ????

 

 

[shackleton]

Well I hope he does win his case but expect the result will be in favour of the Hospital 

Will it deter tourists coming to Thailand I think not

TIT

[kennw]

20 hours ago, ezzra said:

And in many instances it dose, under the old and worn out excuse that Thais are poor while foreigners are "rich" maybe 40-50 years ago it would hold true, not now days though...

On one such occasion at a tourist place in Samut Prakarn I asked why I was being charged more than the Thai person also waiting to buy entrance tickets, and yes got the answer that Thais are poor and farangs rich, so I pointed out that I was driving an old Toyota while the Thai person was driving a new top of the line Mercedes Benz. The silence was deafening but I still had to pay up at the high price 

[mickyr55]

5 hours ago, jesimps said:

The last time that I was scammed on price was at a place I least expected it, it was at the Death Railway Museum in Kanchanaburi. I had to pay far more than my Thai wife. It was the first time in years that I'd been caught out. That was about two years ago and I haven't been fleeced since.

 

And the irony there is that museum was built by the Australian government and donated to Thailand, and still the sticky fingered Thais rob the falang who built the railway which was another free gift to the Thais. 

God these people have no shame. 

[Surasak]

5 hours ago, giog said:

I believe that in many Asian states the relationship between foreigners and local residents includes two types of economic treatment. Personally I think it ALWAYS WRONG but I must say that lately, hospitalized in a hospital in southern Thailand for an operation, I was asked to present my tax return to the Revenue Department and upon delivery of this document the price that was applied to me it was that of the Thai people. So residents who pay taxes in Thailand can access Thai rates. And this, if applied all over Thailand in private or government hospital, IT SEEMS VERY JUST TO ME. Tourists come with insurance stipulated in their country and residents who pay taxes here have Thai rates.

So, do I understand correctly you agree with duel pricing? What about those who don't pay taxes but are on long term visa extensions supporting families, and contribute in other ways to the Thai economy, the cost of the service is the same whether Thai or foreigner. 

[Burma Bill]

21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

the decision could have wide reaching ramifications. 

Despite very admirable efforts by Mr Buse, do you honestly believe the Thai judiciary will give judgement against Hua Hin Hospital, the Czar and "Mr. Concrete" ???? Personally I do not think so.

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, Almer said:

Rubbish

I sometimes go to a play area with my daughter, they offer a 2 hour nanny service so parents can go shopping. Thai speaking nanny is 200 baht, English speaking nanny is 300 baht, is that also dual pricing?

 

In my view it is not dual pricing and it is similar to our Dutch friend's situation at the hospital. 

[VBF]

5 hours ago, fabruer said:

And you really do believe that park rangers would really care one iota about you making a stand?

 

I believe even employees at a private company wouldn't care. From my experience most employees understanding here it's their boss who pays their salaries, not their customers.

Exactly!  They don't think it through do they?

Mind you, I've seen that aspect in UK too - eg in a pub that's part of a "chain" the salaried staff are frequently less friendly and efficient than in a family-owned establishment. But of course, the price remains the same for all which is the real issue here.

[VBF]

4 hours ago, bluejets said:

Dual pricing in a form applies all over the world.

Most would know how airport cafes charge like scrub bulls ....hit the tourist/traveller.

Service station cafes the same thing when travelling around compared to your corner cafe.

<snip>

Not the same at all! Your examples don't differentiate by race or skin colour.. Everyone who uses airport or service station cafes pays the ridiculous inflated prices!

 

Update.. Sorry - i see @mikosan  and @richard_smith237 already made that point. So I'm not alone ????

Edited September 23, 2021 by VBF

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, Keesters said:

So if a foreigner can speak reasonable Thai, as I can after almost 40 years here, the price they pay is the same as a Thai national. 

You are still a "farang"...????

[Thunglom]

sad reflection of the standards of ethics in Thai healthcare.

the whole industry needs a shakedown.

[richard_smith237]

33 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I sometimes go to a play area with my daughter, they offer a 2 hour nanny service so parents can go shopping. Thai speaking nanny is 200 baht, English speaking nanny is 300 baht, is that also dual pricing?

 

In my view it is not dual pricing and it is similar to our Dutch friend's situation at the hospital. 

It's not dual pricing if you say, it doesn’t matter and you can still take the Thai Speaking nanny. 

It's dual pricing if you get the same nanny but have to pay extra. 

 

 

 

IF the Dutch guy was given the option to have English Speaking Nurses and Doctors and was asked to pay an additional fee for that, then yes, I agree it would be the same as your ’nanny example’. 

 

However, I fear that the Dutch guy received exactly the same standards and treatment as any Thai Person would and was not paying a premium for language service. 

 

Additionally, I know Thai’s who grew up overseas, also those who’ve spent their whole school years in International Schools - their Thai is not of a very good standard and in a couple of cases not as good as mine. 

Yet, I suspect they would get the Thai Price and I would get the ‘Foreigner’ price. 

 

Even with the example you provided ExpatOilWorker - the Dutch guy has still encountered dual pricing not a ‘language service fee'. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RobU]

In the UK

University course fees are 3 times (or more) the amount for foreign students than for British students

Dual pricing is not unique to Thailand and other Asian countries

 

[Thunglom]

I think some people are confused as to what dual pricing is.

 

Some claim it is done around the world - if fact this is not true - and where it does occur it hardly justifies it happening in Thailand or mitigates the practice in any way.

 

Dual pricing is a SURCHARGE applied for no real reason other than a prejudice - usually based on generalised perception of income or misplaced nationalism.

 

Price differentials around the world are usually DISCOUNTS offered to groups f people , locals, students elderly.

 

It might also be noted that dual pricing hardly eve makes economic sense as it often deters more business than it compensates for in extra income.

Comparing health services elsewhere is just totally facile.

[Thunglom]

8 minutes ago, RobU said:

In the UK

University course fees are 3 times (or more) the amount for foreign students than for British students

Dual pricing is not unique to Thailand and other Asian countries

 

Not a good comparison and not accurate - it depends on where you come from and which University.

You also need to bear in mind that University places ae often subsidised for local students - with scholarships and discounts.

The situation is not satisfactory, particularly after the loss of Erazumus due to Brexit but it again doesn't justify or mitigate Thailand's policies.

UK and EU students at English universities are required to pay up to £9,250 (~US$13,050) per year. 

International undergraduate tuition fees vary considerably, starting at around £10,000 (~US$14,130) and going up to £38,000 (~US$53,700)

Edited September 23, 2021 by Thunglom

[ExpatOilWorker]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It's not dual pricing if you say, it doesn’t matter and you can still take the Thai Speaking nanny. 

It's dual pricing if you get the same nanny but have to pay extra. 

 

 

 

IF the Dutch guy was given the option to have English Speaking Nurses and Doctors and was asked to pay an additional fee for that, then yes, I agree it would be the same as your ’nanny example’. 

 

However, I fear that the Dutch guy received exactly the same standards and treatment as any Thai Person would and was not paying a premium for language service. 

 

Additionally, I know Thai’s who grew up overseas, also those who’ve spent their whole school years in International Schools - their Thai is not of a very good standard and in a couple of cases not as good as mine. 

Yet, I suspect they would get the Thai Price and I would get the ‘Foreigner’ price. 

 

Even with the example you provided ExpatOilWorker - the Dutch guy has still encountered dual pricing not a ‘language service fee'. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair point. The Dutch guy could have gone to all Thai local hospital and he would be charged the exact same price as Thais. Well, some Thais only pay 30 baht, but that is another issue. 

The hospital does have an increased cost base if they want to service international customers. Who should pay for that? 

Bumrungrad have Arab speaking staff just to service their Middle Eastern clients. Who should pay for this?

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Thunglom said:

Not a good comparison and not accurate - it depends on where you come from and which University.

You also need to bear in mind that University places ae often subsidised for local students - with scholarships and discounts.

The situation is not satisfactory, particularly after the loss of Erazumus due to Brexit but it again doesn't justify or mitigate Thailand's policies.

Now, UK and EU students at English universities are required to pay up to £9,250 (~US$13,050) per year. 

International undergraduate tuition fees vary considerably, starting at around £10,000 (~US$14,130) and going up to £38,000 (~US$53,700)

If a Thai family are resident in the UK for a number of years they can obtain British Nationality. 

 

While resident in the UK Primary and Secondary education is free. 

 

University education will cost them the same, they are British. 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Fair point. The Dutch guy could have gone to all Thai local hospital and he would be charged the exact same price as Thais. Well, some Thais only pay 30 baht, but that is another issue. 

Agreed, and some foreigners can get on the same scheme. 

 

In this case (of the Dutch guy) he was charged extra for being a foreigner while receiving the same treatment as a Thai - I can’t see how the hospital costs involved could be any more than for a Thai. 

 

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The hospital does have an increased cost base if they want to service international customers. Who should pay for that? 

What is their increased cost base ?....   Does a hospital pay a higher salary for a nurse, porter, doctor who also speaks English ? (perhaps they do, I don’t know). 

 

IF I go to those a hospitals and speak with the Doctors and Nurses in Thai, do I get a discount ?

 

A hospital attracts international and wealthier patients by advertising and offering higher standards of care.

 

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Bumrungrad have Arab speaking staff just to service their Middle Eastern clients. Who should pay for this?

Bumrungrad markets to Middle Eastern clients because they will pay a higher premium for the quality of treatment and service, as will wealthy Thai’s and many other foreigners. 

But, to my knowledge, Bumrungrad does not charge one nationality, Thai or otherwise any more or less for the same treatment. Its just all expensive !

 

 

 

[chrissables]

7 hours ago, giog said:

I believe that in many Asian states the relationship between foreigners and local residents includes two types of economic treatment. Personally I think it ALWAYS WRONG but I must say that lately, hospitalized in a hospital in southern Thailand for an operation, I was asked to present my tax return to the Revenue Department and upon delivery of this document the price that was applied to me it was that of the Thai people. So residents who pay taxes in Thailand can access Thai rates. And this, if applied all over Thailand in private or government hospital, IT SEEMS VERY JUST TO ME. Tourists come with insurance stipulated in their country and residents who pay taxes here have Thai rates.

We all pay tax as in VAT, many don't work but have lived here for years putting money into the system.

 

Double pricing is wrong and in fact with the 10 fold bump in National Parks that mostly are special is ridiculous. 

 

A PET scan in a certain bkk hospital was 25% more if not Thai. Anyone thinking that is ok needs reeducating.

[chrissables]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Good luck to this guy. Overcharging for medical treatment based on nationality/race is a disgraceful practice. The apologists on here who say "get over it" would never accept ethnic minorities being treated like this in their home countries, but they're happy to be on the receiving end in Thailand. A very strange phenomenon indeed, it would make a very interesting psychological study.

 

The war memorial in Kanchanaburi is another great example of the absurdity of the practice.

• Thais side with Japan during WW2 to enslave British, Australian and US servicemen.
• Australia sets up and maintains a memorial about the events in Kanchanaburi, Thailand.
• Thais charge British, Australian and US tourists 10x the normal price to visit the memorial.

Amazing Thailand indeed.

Kanchanaburi war cemetery is free, do you mean the museum?

[chrissables]

7 hours ago, Mike k said:

For those of us who are here on long stay visas with a Thai driver license should be charged the same as Thais 

Or proof of a year visa too.

[chrissables]

6 hours ago, bluejets said:

Dual pricing in a form applies all over the world.

Most would know how airport cafes charge like scrub bulls ....hit the tourist/traveller.

Service station cafes the same thing when travelling around compared to your corner cafe.

Get over it and move on.......

If this bloke has cancer as they say, i'd say the stress would not be good for him anyhow.

 

I have no problem with paying extra to enter National parks or whatever or paying where Thai is free.

When does "extra" become too much? Double? 10 fold, 100 fold......

[Fairynuff]

I wish I could be optimistic but I just can’t see a judge going against Thai culture AND the huge hospital businesses. 

I also wonder if the fair pricing in hospitals would ever spread to the other often government sanctioned overcharging venues.

[Keesters]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

You are still a "farang"...????

But being Thai speaking I require no special treatment. You seem to be destroying your own argument.