Are you still able to live comfortably?

[georgegeorgia]

I remember about 20-25 years ago reading up & meeting many farang particular from Australia living on their aged pension.

 

Many were living very good .

But can it be done nowadays?

 

I'm looking at the aged pension from Australia and it's around 50,000 baht a month..of course you would have to have the 800k in the bank to meet the immigration requirements.

 

Not sure how much the other countries pay their aged pensioners but ...who here lives on their solely aged pension and any difference from before in terms of living in Pattaya

 

 

I know I can be done in other parts of Thailand but I'm particularly interested in Pattaya living .

Edited September 30, 2021 by georgegeorgia

[Swiss1960]

It can be done, but why live in a city of fun (or in a city that used to be that), when you can not really enjoy the fun?

 

Your base is 50K. You will spend 10K/month on rent, water, electricity, phone. If you are not stupid, you will spend 10K/month on health insurance. That leaves you with 30K or 1K per day. 

 

1K per day in Pattaya is possible, IF... 

- you mostly cook yourself with stuff from market OR live from street food

- don't smoke and/or drink heavily

- don't expect Australian Wagyu on your plate weekly

- don't expect to have a permanent girlfriend/boyfriend

- don't want to travel

- don't want to enjoy yourself with cinema, water parks etc

- don't... basically everything I like to enjoy (except the girlfriend which I replaced by a family)

You will be living a Thai style live and will have to forego many of the perks that you can enjoy today in Australia, because they are cheap (i.e. beef, wine). Anything western in Thailand has its price which might not fit in a tight budget.

 

This is purely based on my experience and my expectations, you will need to define for yourself what you expect your life to look like. 

[OneMoreFarang]

Imagine you would ask a Thai person who lives from minimum wage how he could live with 50k per month. He would probably think he won't be able to spend so much money every month.

It's all in our minds how much we think we need to make us happy.

[gk10012001]

If I had punched out early, i.e. three years ago, I would have been right on the edge of being comfortable and not worrying about the future.  For various reasons, mostly COVID, I kept working, got some huge windfall engineering gigs, and my social security has gone up by 7 % each year. So current expenses and future look like a sure thing... knock on wood.  That Thai baht drop since 2004  of course was drastic for many. 

[thaibeachlovers]

48 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

of course you would have to have the 800k in the bank to meet the immigration requirements.

Don't forget the health insurance. I paid 60,000 baht last time for mine.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine you would ask a Thai person who lives from minimum wage how he could live with 50k per month. He would probably think he won't be able to spend so much money every month.

It's all in our minds how much we think we need to make us happy.

Exactly. Some farangs want to live like kings on a pension that would barely cover survival back home.

I was happy with 30,000 baht a month for rent and living expenses. I didn't eat at Dukes or fly for holidays elsewhere whenever I got bored though.

Even on 30,000 baht I had a better life in LOS than where I live now on more ( baht equivalent ) $.

[georgegeorgia]

3 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

If I had punched out early, i.e. three years ago, I would have been right on the edge of being comfortable and not worrying about the future.  For various reasons, mostly COVID, I kept working, got some huge windfall engineering gigs, and my social security has gone up by 7 % each year. So current expenses and future look like a sure thing... knock on wood.  That Thai baht drop since 2004  of course was drastic for many. 

 

There is a guy at my work the same as you staying extra 18 months  during covid instead of retirement from Australia to the Philippines so he can "cash" in with the extra work...had to tell him at 67yo he has wasted another year when he has only about 15 years left if that !

So you wasted another year ...not sure your age but put the count down on now for between 78 & 82

[gk10012001]

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

 

There is a guy at my work the same as you staying extra 18 months  during covid instead of retirement from Australia to the Philippines so he can "cash" in with the extra work...had to tell him at 67yo he has wasted another year when he has only about 15 years left if that !

So you wasted another year ...not sure your age but put the count down on now for between 78 & 82

It is people like you that reason irrationally and make stupid hasty generalizations.  you use the word greed.  You assert I wasted my life.  Maybe I enjoy my career as an engineer working on state of the art Aerospace projects.  Look up X-47B UCAS on the internet and youtube.   Maybe I enjoy being around educated, mostly literate people with which one could have conversations with.  Maybe living in Northern San Diego and still being close to friends in Los Angeles with so much to do was good.  

 

Maybe I have seen more people run out of money in retirement and had to live in attics and basements, live in their reclining chair, unable to go anywhere, do anything, afford anything.  So don't you dare criticize or assume you have any right to belittle my life choice.  Had I gone to Thailand, well, then what?  The darn place was shut down.  I see nothing wrong with doshing up, spending a fine year in San Diego, then New Jersey while so much was locked down, and locking up retirement.    Life isn't perfect.  

 

  Now at 64 I am totally solvent and right now, am house shopping for my retirement home in Melbourne Florida, and as soon as that is put down, and I get one house mate in from Nothrop, I plan to head to Thailand, assuming they make some better travel restrictions

[gk10012001]

11 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

So you lost another year or two of your life in the greed to earn .ire?

There is a guy at my work the same as you staying extra 18 months  during covid instead of retirement from Australia to the Philippines so he can "cash" in with the extra work...had to tell him at 67yo he has wasted another year when he has only about 15 years left if that !

So you wasted another year ...not sure your age but put the count down on now for between 78 & 82

Wasted a year in a locked down place, sitting around doing nothing but watching his mind turn to mush?  Don't you act like you know what is right for him or anybody else. 

[gk10012001]

8 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Huh?  Didn’t you start a thread just over a week ago where you were pondering if you had enough to retire (฿14,000,000 + a ฿15,000,000 condo) and now you’re throwing daggers at people?

Amazing isn't it?  That somebody belittels another person's life choice, and name calls them "greedy"

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Swiss1960 said:

1K per day in Pattaya is possible, IF... 

- you mostly cook yourself with stuff from market OR live from street food

- don't smoke and/or drink heavily

- don't expect Australian Wagyu on your plate weekly

- don't expect to have a permanent girlfriend/boyfriend

- don't want to travel

- don't want to enjoy yourself with cinema, water parks etc

- don't... basically everything I like to enjoy (except the girlfriend which I replaced by a family)

You will be living a Thai style live and will have to forego many of the perks that you can enjoy today in Australia, because they are cheap (i.e. beef, wine). Anything western in Thailand has its price which might not fit in a tight budget.

- you mostly cook yourself with stuff from market OR live from street food

I could buy enough takeaway fried rice chicken from a proper restaurant to last 3 meals for 50 baht. Even with inflation no need to eat street food, IMO.

 

- don't smoke and/or drink heavily

Always amazes me how often people with little money still smoke and/ or drink a lot. That's the first thing that should go when poor.

 

- don't expect to have a permanent girlfriend/boyfriend

no need in LOS. Another one available from any bar. However it's a bit unrealistic to dabble in that pond if on 1k a day. Perhaps once a week/ fortnight/ month depending on price.

 

- don't want to enjoy yourself with cinema, water parks etc

Not so. I was on less than 1k a day and often went to the movies at a proper cinema. Went to a mall and ate at the foodcourt while there for the movie. Proper food, not street food for under 100 baht.

 

-You will be living a Thai style live and will have to forego many of the perks that you can enjoy today in Australia, because they are cheap (i.e. beef, wine). Anything western in Thailand has its price which might not fit in a tight budget.

What's wrong with living a Thai life style? Millions of Thais do so and have no more complaints than residents of western countries. I don't see many perks from living in a western country unless seriously wealthy. The lower echelon is getting <deleted> these days while the wealthy are living the life of Riley.

I don't live in Oz, but I had a waaaaay better life in LOS on less than 1k baht a day ( not including rent/ insurance etc ) than I do on a pension here. If I only had the pension and had to rent a house I'd be eating dog food as that's all I could afford.

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[The Cipher]

Quote

Maybe I have seen more people run out of money in retirement and had to live in attics and basements, live in their reclining chair, unable to go anywhere, do anything, afford anything. 

Honest question, how much do you guys save a month? Or like, what would you consider a normal amount of monthly savings?

 

I'm not trying to come across like a jerk, but I'm always a little surprised that there are so many people who are in the situation quoted above.

 

if you save just $1,000 a month ($12k/yr) starting at age 30 and invest it at 8% net, you'll retire at 65 with over $2M in savings. If you change that $1,000 to just $500, you'd still make it to over $1M in the same timeframe.

[gk10012001]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly. Some farangs want to live like kings on a pension that would barely cover survival back home.

I was happy with 30,000 baht a month for rent and living expenses. I didn't eat at Dukes or fly for holidays elsewhere whenever I got bored though.

Even on 30,000 baht I had a better life in LOS than where I live now on more ( baht equivalent ) $.

Yes and that is very true for many people.  Working, paying taxes, lousy weather, etc.  can wear one out.  Thailand living, while some may turn their nose down on it, can be better than most would believe or accept.  The only problem now adays is old age, cost of insurance, etc..   The moat around one's life can be filled with many alligators waiting to take a piece of you!  I think I reached a fair compromise.  Damn COVID ruined Thailand in many ways the last few years so I worked a bit more.  Luckily I was underworked and over paid!  So things are OK.  Be well

[thaibeachlovers]

34 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

So you lost another year or two of your life in the greed to earn .ire?

There is a guy at my work the same as you staying extra 18 months  during covid instead of retirement from Australia to the Philippines so he can "cash" in with the extra work...had to tell him at 67yo he has wasted another year when he has only about 15 years left if that !

So you wasted another year ...not sure your age but put the count down on now for between 78 & 82

News flash. Some people actually enjoy their job/ friends/ lifestyle. More money for when one does actually retire is always a good thing. One never knows what is going to happen, as I know very well from harsh experience.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Honest question, how much do you guys save a month? Or like, what would you consider a normal amount of monthly savings?

 

I'm not trying to come across like a jerk, but I'm always a little surprised that there are so many people who are in the situation quoted above.

 

if you save just $1,000 a month ($12k/yr) starting at age 30 and invest it at 8% net, you'll retire at 65 with over $2M in savings. If you change that $1,000 to just $500, you'd still make it to over $1M in the same timeframe.

I started working for 8 pounds 10 shillings a week and paid 4 pounds a week for board. Had I saved half of the remainder for 10 years I might have enough for a night out in Bkk now.

 

Doesn't matter how much one saves if one marries the wrong woman and that's a common occurrence, isn't it?

Life is more about luck than planning IMO.

[gk10012001]

2 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Honest question, how much do you guys save a month? Or like, what would you consider a normal amount of monthly savings?

 

I'm not trying to come across like a jerk, but I'm always a little surprised that there are so many people who are in the situation quoted above.

 

if you save just $1,000 a month ($12k/yr) starting at age 30 and invest it at 8% net, you'll retire at 65 with over $2M in savings. If you change that $1,000 to just $500, you'd still make it to over $1M in the same timeframe.

Well, my money really was made in just the last 17 years.  I was flat out broke, literally jobless and homeless at one point.  But I had outs.  I was an ex air force captian, I had job experience, I had a BS and MS degree in engineering and math.  So I stopped screwing around.  Now my net worth is 1, 145,000 and that is not fluff.  My credit balance is 0.  I have no loans, no debts.  My investments earn just over $60,000 USD a year.  I can push the button now and start my Social Security and get another $30,000 a year.

 

  As for saving, well, I learned that the sooner I started the monies and dividends and interest would start compounding.  Wish I had been smarter a few years earlier.  Anyway, what's done is done.  Some of my engineering contracts paid a ton.  Last year in New Jersey, just when I had retired from Northrop and was heading to thialnd, COViD showed up.  At the same time my agency called me and said $135/hour and there would be 1400 a week split tax free per diem. JEsus.  What a windfall.  $4,000 a week paychecks.  So a great year that easily doshed me up and was wortho two or three years of work.

 

  My typical engineering contract jobs paid me $80/hour on average with some tax free per diem split out.  YEs I had to work away from home, and over the years have worked in 18 states,  no bull.  Just the way things happened.  I always maxed out the 401k at work.  Usually no matching contributions as a contractor but the last 3 years with Northrop I was a direct and they put in 6 % of my pay which was OK with me.  I also, thanks to part of my pay being tax free I was usuallya ble to contribute to my ROTH IRA outside of work, or about 6 or 7 k a year depending on the limits.  My monthly expenses averaged about 3,000.  I own and drive a 2008 KIA.  No loans.  I pay rent at my home in Florida while away but it is pretty small but necessary to mainain residence there.  While on the road sometimes I have to pay like $2,000 a month in an extended stay furnished hotel, but such is the cost of doing business.  Sometimes I shared a furnished house when in California and that cost me about 1200 to 1500 a month over the years.  It was risky to rent an apartment with a least because sometimes the contract jobs end suddenly so I have to eat rent costs. 

 

Bottom line, is I was lucky to have a background that got me good paying gigs. And in between the gigs, I would jet off to Thailand.  When it was easy to travel, visa exempt on arrival, no notice 30 days, often extending an extra 30 days and then return to the states for the next gig.  So since my first trip in 2004, which was the same year I got my life and fianances on track, I work, break, go to Thailand, break, work, hang in Florida, etc.

 

  Now have a pending gig in Connecticut starting Oct 25.  It's a coin tosss if I will take it.  I probably will, and work 10 more months.  One final dosh up until I turn 65 next year, start USA Medicare, which will lock up my health insurance costs.  Thailand should be in better shape next year, and that will fit my timeline.  Although I am tempted to jet over there now and hang out.  It is good to have options. 

[The Cipher]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doesn't matter how much one saves if one marries the wrong woman and that's a common occurrence, isn't it? Life is more about luck than planning IMO.

Hmm, in my limited experience the people who plan are usually the ones that put themselves in a position to get lucky.

 

But sure, no doubt blind luck does play a big part too.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, The Cipher said:

Hmm, in my limited experience the people who plan are usually the ones that put themselves in a position to get lucky.

 

But sure, no doubt blind luck does play a big part too.

I planned and saved for 10 years, before retiring and moving to LOS more or less permanently. I hadn't planned on getting married.

Had I read the divorce sub forum on TVF BEFORE getting married I'd still be in LOS today. That was down to luck. Just bad luck I met her, just bad luck I thought she was the one, just bad luck that I hadn't read the divorce sub forum etc.

As a wise man once said to me, life is unfair.

 

It is luck that rules us- had I walked by a minute later she might have not been there, had I been looking the other way I might not have seen her etc etc etc.

Even wars are won by luck, when it comes down to it. Britain was lucky to have the Spitfire and the code breaking computer in WW2. Two men just happened to be in the right place at the right time- now that's what I call good luck!

[Swiss1960]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

What's wrong with living a Thai life style? Millions of Thais do so and have no more complaints than residents of western countries. I don't see many perks from living in a western country unless seriously wealthy. The lower echelon is getting <deleted> these days while the wealthy are living the life of Riley.

I did NOT say that anything is wrong with living a Thai life style. I was simply pointing to the fact, that a western lifestyle with western goods will not be possible. Personally, I live 70% Thai, 30% western (food wise)

[bojo]

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I know I can be done in other parts of Thailand but I'm particularly interested in Pattaya living

Of all the places that foreigners might consider retiring to in Thailand; IMO if you had to select one place that would suit most foreign retirees on a 50K budget for example, then Pattaya would be that place.......................................... Personally, I think it's a good choice and if you're savvy, open minded, able to adapt, you can currently have a good life there for 50K Baht......................................................... Not so sure about the future though and the same goes for the whole of Thailand really. Most Western expat's pensions have generally stretched a long way over the years but their buying power is diminishing fast so make sure you plan for that...............................

[Rampant Rabbit]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I started working for 8 pounds 10 shillings a week and paid 4 pounds a week for board. Had I saved half of the remainder for 10 years I might have enough for a night out in Bkk now.

 

Doesn't matter how much one saves if one marries the wrong woman and that's a common occurrence, isn't it?

Life is more about luck than planning IMO.

Sometimes you  get  good  luck and dont grab it with both hands though,  I remember meeting a guy 15  years  ago in Thailand  and it changed my financial  life here for the better substantially.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I'm looking at the aged pension from Australia and it's around 50,000 baht a month

State pension alone  from UK will be about 32,000 baht every 4 weeks... although many will get a second pension from their past employer. For example those who were in the police force long term do quite well. 

[gk10012001]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't forget the health insurance. I paid 60,000 baht last time for mine.

I estimate from what I have read that at least half or 50% of the expats the last 10 to 15 years skipped health insurance and that was OK for most routine things.  Setting a broken bone was not a big expense.  Even getting an appendectomy was not a huge expense.    Some made out OK. Others not so.  In this day and age no health insurance is a big risk in my opine.  Especially since people in general are living longer, the chances of some serious illness or complication, cancer, heart attack, surgeries, etc. increase.  I hate the health insurance industry (I live in the USA), but for the last 40 years once I left home, I have never been without it.  I have never ever needed it, no surgeries, no nothing so I have spent a pretty penny on nothing and the premiums are only going up! And I don't get any credit, or cash back or anything beause over the years I changed carriers, had different employers, had a few years in the Air Force etc.  Now in a few months I will be switching over to Medicare, which is not that cheap if one has any substantial income. But at least I know the premium costs vs. MAGI (Modified Adjusted Gross Income), so I can plan my tax bracket and my IRA withdrawals to keep my medicare premiums as low as possible.

[gk10012001]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

News flash. Some people actually enjoy their job/ friends/ lifestyle. More money for when one does actually retire is always a good thing. One never knows what is going to happen, as I know very well from harsh experience.

You got that right.  I miss chatting with many of my co workers.  We shared similar backgrounds. Some of us were in the Military together or stationed at the same Bases or facilities or worked on the same defense projects.  And having a security clearance it is cool knowing some things or going to places that are off limits to most.  Many of us really did work on important or critical defense programs.  I have been on submarines, worked on satellites, worked on the F 15 Anti Satellite program, Ballistic Missile Defense, and so many other things that are really interesting.  Kept the brain active.  Now, having had some time off between the last two gigs, it is becoming an education on what I will need to do to keep a little bit busy and enaged in things.  I have seen so many retired people just waste away. Others, such as Hans Bethe, the great physicist, my god he kept on going and loved it until he was 95. 

[Olmate]

31 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

State pension alone  from UK will be about 32,000 baht every 4 weeks... although many will get a second pension from their past employer. For example those who were in the police force long term do quite well. 

Oz pension is not 50k either. 

[bojo]

2 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Oz pension is not 50k either. 

Interestingly, what is it in OZ dollars monthly?

[Olmate]

6 minutes ago, bojo said:

Interestingly, what is it in OZ dollars monthly?

890 per fn living out of oz

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine you would ask a Thai person who lives from minimum wage how he could live with 50k per month. He would probably think he won't be able to spend so much money every month.

It's all in our minds how much we think we need to make us happy.

And the general instilled mindset and the discussion that displays itself in the same ridiculous manner every time that this same kind of inquiry comes up. There's no standard for any such comfort as the varied lifestyles will attest to.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

I did NOT say that anything is wrong with living a Thai life style. I was simply pointing to the fact, that a western lifestyle with western goods will not be possible. Personally, I live 70% Thai, 30% western (food wise)

I seem to be living a western lifestyle on a pension of 1,000 pounds a month quite easily (family of 5).

It was a little harder when the exchange got me 40kbht and I had a kid at university.

But she finished earlier this yer, got a job, moved out and the exchange rate now gives me 45k/month.

 

At 45k/month I have 5k-10k left I don't need each month.

Western food doesn't cost any more than Thai food, same ingredients, different cooking style.

 

as for,

"live in their reclining chair, unable to go anywhere, do anything, afford anything."

Nowhere to go, nothing much to do for the past 2 years due to COVID, even if I wanted.

Edited October 1, 2021 by BritManToo

[Swiss1960]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I seem to be living a western lifestyle on a pension of 1,000 pounds a month quite easily (family of 5).

It was a little harder when the exchange got me 40kbht and I had a kid at university.

But she finished earlier this yer, got a job, moved out and the exchange rate now gives me 45k/month.

 

At 45k/month I have 5k-10k left I don't need each month.

Western food doesn't cost any more than Thai food, same ingredients, different cooking style.

 

as for,

"live in their reclining chair, unable to go anywhere, do anything, afford anything."

Nowhere to go, nothing much to do for the past 2 years due to COVID, even if I wanted.

You are certainly correct and I congratulate you on your ability to do so. "Western lifestyle" means different things to different people, that is why I wrote at the end of my initial statement “This is purely based on my experience and my expectations, you will need to define for yourself what you expect your life to look like.”

 

For me, beef is part of my lifestyle and I have yet to find Thai beef that I would want to eat, so I do regular trips to shops with Australian beef products and happily pay the price. Same goes with red wines, mine tend to be from Italy and go well together with Italian pasta and sauces. Or then the cheese… bloody expensive, but (mostly Swiss) cheeses are part of my diet. And my daughter has started to develop the same tastes, expect the wine (still too young).

 

As I said before, 70% of the time, my wife cooks Thai dishes and I am perfectly comfortable with pork and chicken and any other products from the local fresh market. I am also fully happy with Thai beers, never bought foreign beers in all my time in Thailand. I just like to enjoy both and that does not work with only 50K Baht per month, from which you have to pay rent, water, electricity, insurance and so on.