Udon police arrest Swiss expat who killed armed intruder at his home

[NanLaew]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It has not been stated they were friends. 

They are known to each other (community is small). The deceased once made advances which were rejected. 

 

There was no relationship with the deceased, there is no indication of a relationship with between the wife and the deceased - there is only the assumption of ’some’ that there was because they where known to each other which is not abnormal in a small community. 

 

 

IF... but some posters are making a huge leap. 

 

At least we know the victim wasn't her brother.

[Lampang2]

63 - 44 = do the math.

 

the wife seems to have lost her lover in the process.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, jesimps said:

6 hours ago, seajae said:

when you are attacked in your own home with a gun weilding robber you are entitled to defend yourself, in any other country it would be recognised as self defence, if a thai had done it, it would also be looked at as self defence but because a farang that was 10 years older than the robber did it he is being charged, really shows the anti farang views/laws they have here. 

Not in UK unfortunately. Remember Tony Martin?

He fired 3 shots with an illegal pump-action shotgun - one shot while the burglars were in the house, another two shots while the burglars were fleeing, one of the burglars was hit in the back, both were hit in the legs. 

 

The burglar who was hit in the back died, the fatal shot delivered to a fleeing person.

 

Martin was convicted of Murder which was later reduced to manslaughter, he served 3 years in prison. 

 

Its a complex case, Martin received a lot of sympathy - but the jury determined that ‘more than reasonable force was used’.

 

 

[Retfed50]

Speaking as a retired law enforcement, why did he throw the gun(evidence) in the pond?

[Dogmatix]

Liink to video report.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=239416618203511

 

[Surasak]

6 hours ago, chuang said:

The swiss guy must be a expert in close combat....

Or extremely lucky.

[matchar]

20 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

How do you know that 'he' had the loaded gun?  Because the guy who killed him said so?   See what I mean, thrown in the pond means no finger prints or DNA, odd eh? 

Actually fingerprints will survive being submerged in water, especially for a short time like this case. Now if the gun had been wiped down with no fingerprints and no prints on the rounds or shell casing that would be suspicious.

[TKDfella]

Hmm, suspicious? I think (like some others here) the plot is a bit thicker than the it seems. A lone Thai individual climbs the (not high) wall trying to rob a foreigner of his money at his own walled abode.?? Nope, don't buy that. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by TKDfella

[Mac Mickmanus]

Why would the deceased  go to a house with a gun, which suggests he was expecting me meet the house owner , and rob a hose where the house owners knew him and would be able to easily identify him . 

  The Wife upstairs asleep who was acquainted with the deceased, why didn't she come downstairs when a gun was fired ?

[bbko]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

  The Wife upstairs asleep who was acquainted with the deceased, why didn't she come downstairs when a gun was fired ?

I know when my Thai wife hears a suspicious noise late at night, she doesn't run to it's location. she'll wait cautiously and usually nudge me to wake up, 555.

[ukrules]

10 minutes ago, Retfed50 said:

Speaking as a retired law enforcement, why did he throw the gun(evidence) in the pond?

Why not? I would throw the gun as far away as possible after somehow getting hold of it, maybe it lands in the pond, maybe not

 

I wouldn't really care where it went so long as it went away from me so it couldn't be used against me, but if I was quick thinking and saw the pond near to me and this guy is still attacking me - then it's going in the pond where he can't simply pick it up again and shoot me with it.

[ukrules]

10 minutes ago, matchar said:

Actually fingerprints will survive being submerged in water, especially for a short time like this case. Now if the gun had been wiped down with no fingerprints and no prints on the rounds or shell casing that would be suspicious.

Yep, putting it in the pond ensured one thing, nobody was getting shot that night.

 

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, Retfed50 said:

Speaking as a retired law enforcement, why did he throw the gun(evidence) in the pond?

A fight breaking out....  Swiss guy manages to grab the gun but is not stupid enough to use it to kill the other guy...  He flings it away so the other guy can’t grab.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

17 minutes ago, Retfed50 said:

Speaking as a retired law enforcement, why did he throw the gun(evidence) in the pond?

Maybe he thought that the gun being underwater would render it unable to be used or maybe he thought that it would be a good hiding place  ?

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Hmm, suspicious? I think (like some others here) the plot is a bit thicker than the it seems. A lone Thai individual climbs the (not high) wall trying to rob a foreigner of his money at his own walled abode.?? Nope, don't buy that. 

What, you don’t buy the idea that a poor Thai is going to try and rob a foreigner he thinks may have money around ?

 

It seems more than feasible and as covid is putting more and more pressure on the poor I suspect such similar occurrences could be more common. 

[smudger1951]

7 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

An investigation is needed. For all we know the burglar and wife could have been in cahoots?

The mans wife knew him locally so was why would he choose her home ?

 

[ballpoint]

16 minutes ago, matchar said:

Actually fingerprints will survive being submerged in water, especially for a short time like this case. Now if the gun had been wiped down with no fingerprints and no prints on the rounds or shell casing that would be suspicious.

Yes, but the Swiss guy now has an excuse for his prints to be on the gun.

[ballpoint]

For all those saying this will put people off coming to Thailand, I say show me a country where the police would not investigate the killing of a man on another man's property, and then I'll show you a country I wouldn't want to live in.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Why would the deceased  go to a house with a gun, which suggests he was expecting me meet the house owner , and rob a hose where the house owners knew him and would be able to easily identify him . 

The deceased probably wasn’t a member of Mensa - most criminals are dumb. 

 

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

  The Wife upstairs asleep who was acquainted with the deceased, why didn't she come downstairs when a gun was fired ?

Because she was in a deep sleep after a few drinks (or maybe a lot of drinks), may not have heard it.

 

[saakura]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

what ?

 

The Thai was armed with a firearm and made an unauthorised entry to the property to commit armed robbery and discharged the firearm when challenged, he was then disarmed during a violent struggle and incapacitated - the Swiss man should be getting a medal

 

pretty clear to me

If that story is true, sure he should be rewarded. But it has to be investigated and confirmed first.

[matchar]

Just now, ballpoint said:

Yes, but the Swiss guy now has an excuse for his prints to be on the gun.

If the Swiss guy's story is true then both men's prints should be on the gun and the dead man's prints should be on the rounds if he loaded the gun himself. Easy to prove either way.

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

28 minutes ago, matchar said:

Actually fingerprints will survive being submerged in water, especially for a short time like this case. Now if the gun had been wiped down with no fingerprints and no prints on the rounds or shell casing that would be suspicious.

Yes, but the Swiss guy now has an excuse for his prints to be on the gun.

The Swiss guy would also have an excuse for his prints being on the gun if he’d simply taken it off the deceased and held on to the gun. 

 

Slinging the gun away into the water, then telling the police that he had done so seems to clearly outline that the Swiss man had no intention of using the gun to harm or kill the deceased. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by richard_smith237

[Chongalulu]

38 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

O.K.

  Give me one, just one occasion when a felang has been convicted and jailed for self defence ?

   Why not go even further , give me one occasion when a Thai was convicted where he was defending himself ?

   (Lets not go off topic and start talking about traffic accidents)

  Name the felangs who are in jail after getting attacked and who were defending themselves , I have a feeling that you will not be able to name any at all 

   

The point is to say ' I’m sure ' when it comes to Thai police and the justice system is inadvisable. If you can’t name a previous instance where a farang has killed a Thai burglar then your point is moot . Can you?- if not then there is no specific precedent and the only guidance is RTP form in general. Are you happy they got the right culprits for the Koh Tao murders and if not what gives you such confidence here? It may be he isn’t eventually charged but in his position would you be feeling relaxed and confident about the outcome even without some ‘financial consideration'? 

[ballpoint]

5 minutes ago, matchar said:

If the Swiss guy's story is true then both men's prints should be on the gun and the dead man's prints should be on the rounds if he loaded the gun himself. Easy to prove either way.

Exactly.  Hence the need for an investigation.

[Chongalulu]

41 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Not recently, no. Thanks for resurrecting the myth though.

 

YMMV

 

TiT

Ah,you’re like this .. ???? ???? ???? 

[XJPSX]

The Swiss should of used the old garbage bag over the head and suffocated him. Now that would confuse the police.

[ballpoint]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The Swiss guy would also have an excuse for his prints being on the gun if he’d simply taken it of the deceased and held on to the gun. 

 

Slinging the gun away into the water, then telling the police that he had done so seems to clearly outline that the Swiss man had no intention of using the gun to harm or kill the deceased. 

 

 

 

 

 

So, the police should take his word and let him go?  Or should they do what the police of any country would do and hold him for questioning, and maybe allow him to be released on bail, until the investigation has been carried out?

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by ballpoint

[BE88]

6 hours ago, chuang said:

The swiss guy must be a expert in close combat....

Yes same many Swiss, you don't know the Swiss army training more long time any other country and every men are on the army.

[Nojohndoe]

In any country I know of with half decent laws Police would arrest and charge any person who caused  the death of another in any circumstances. If the Swiss man's story is accepted as true he would still be charged with manslaughter. In any eventual Court hearing if it was established it was unintentional and accidental manslaughter in the act of self defense against an armed intruder proper justice would see the charge dismissed without conviction. Unless the thot plickens it would be difficult to learn of a different outcome. I hope the Swiss Embassy is prepared to advocate for him given the apparent circumstances

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, ballpoint said:

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The Swiss guy would also have an excuse for his prints being on the gun if he’d simply taken it of the deceased and held on to the gun. 

 

Slinging the gun away into the water, then telling the police that he had done so seems to clearly outline that the Swiss man had no intention of using the gun to harm or kill the deceased. 

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

So, the police should take his word and let him go?  Or should they do what the police of any country would do and either hold him, and maybe allow him to be released on bail, until the investigation has been carried out?

Clearly a full investigation needs to be carried out (which I have stated numerous times already on this thread).

 

The response to the ‘gun in the water’ comment was to counter the flawed ideas that:

a) It's strange that the Swiss guy threw the gun in pond - I don’t think so, it actually makes sense. 

b) The Swiss guy threw the gun in the pond to get rid of evidence - That makes no sense at all when he told the police it was there !