Name the top three countries you would want to move to if you left Thailand other than your home country

[William C F Pierce]

Only one choice. West Coast of Costa Rica. Reasons

The UPSIDE:

1. Weather; slightly wargonemer in cool season and cooler in the hot season than Thailand. The seasons are more balanced. 2. Can get 90 days on arrival before applying for 2 year visa renewable for 1 more year before you then get permanent residency and no signing on at Immigration every 90 days. Freedom! 3. Financial requirements: must have an income of at least $1500 and open a Bank Account in a local bank with at least $60,000 which you can spend on a property if you want. You are not compelled to keep it there like the 800,000 Baht in Thailand. 4. It is possible to buy a piece of land four times the size of a piece of land in Thailand at half the Thai price. No-one is allowed to own the beach or shoreline. Not even locals. A large number of American Real Estate Agents here. 5. After your initial 3 years you also get free medical care if you ever need it. 6. Costa Rica is the only country in the world without an army. It only ever had one military coup and that was to have a referendum to abolish itself, that the people all voted for. ( A lesson for Thailand maybe? ). 7. Because it has no army to fund it spends more on Education than most other countries. 8. Quite a number of US Film Stars and Entertainers have properties in Costa Rica. Which you won't see in Thailand. 9. There are more animals and plant species than in any other country on the planet. 10. Will not have to go into a shop to be spoken to by a Thai using English words with Thai Grammer.

The DOWNSIDE:

Food costs more. Especially if you want imported American food.  Property can cost more if you don't do your research.

FOOTNOTE: The Amazement has long gone from  Amazing Thailand. Many Americans are gone. Many Europeans are gone. The Chinese have quickly gone. They are now looking to entice the Indians of India who will also soon be gone.

 

[simon43]

As an update to my choice of countries post, where I named just 1 country (Turkey), after more research and communication with people living in those countries, I will change my list to:

 

1 - North Cyprus (TRNC)

2 - Turkey

3 - ?

Since the wonderful Laos police restricted my ham radio hobby here in Laos (they banned me from using all but a couple of ham radio bands), I have been carefully researching alternative countries which are more welcoming to radio amateurs.  My criteria of course, is not based solely on that status, and the reasons for choosing 1 and 2 are mostly pertaining to British citizens:

 

- The cost of living is low in both countries.  Especially, the cost of eating out is much lower than countries like Greece, Portugal etc.

- The British state pension is not frozen in either of these 2 countries - it will increase each year (unlike Laos, Thailand etc)

- 340 days of sun each year, beautiful beaches, unspoilt countryside.

- Good private hospitals -my April Insurance policy charges the same premium as for Laos.

- English spoken, widely in TRNC

- Friendly locals

- Internet OK for my online science teaching.

- A long-term residency permit is available with no onerous conditions

 

TRNC is an interesting place because it's only recognised by Turkey, after the 1974 Cyprus invasion.  But theer is freedom of movement between the north and south of the island. I'm allowed as a foreigner to do all my ham radio activites ????

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

As an update to my choice of countries post, where I named just 1 country (Turkey), after more research and communication with people living in those countries, I will change my list to:

 

1 - North Cyprus (TRNC)

2 - Turkey

3 - ?

Had a friend who was living in Cyprus, said it was a nightmare, his house halved in value, and everything was very expensive, he sold up in 2011.

He moved to Thailand, and also has a half share of a house in Spain.

Edited October 12, 2021 by BritManToo

[simon43]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Had a friend who was living in Cyprus, said it was a nightmare, his house halved in value, and everything was very expensive, he sold up in 2011.

He moved to Thailand, and also has a half share of a house in Spain.

You need to do compare prices between south Cyprus (which I suspect is where your friend lived), and the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus (Kyrenia etc).  There's a huge difference in the cost of living!  I have no intention of buying a house - I always prefer to rent.  According to my contacts and Numbeo data, Turkey is one of cheapest places for living and good food in that part of the world, followed closely by North Cyprus (5$ for a decent meal, as opposed to $3 in Vientiane.  Actually, here in Luang Prabang, I typically pay $5 for my decent cafe meal and drink anyway...

 

This is not just a theoretical move.  With the continuing restrictions, zero tourism in LP and problems with my ham licence, I've decided to initially move to mainland Turkey, and then maybe move on to North Cyprus after a few months (I need to stay in Turkey for a short time to get my Turkish radio ham licence before I move to North Cyprus - just makes the paperwork easier).

 

These Covid times have really messed up the world...

[Jeffr2]

9 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

Only one choice. West Coast of Costa Rica. Reasons

The UPSIDE:

1. Weather; slightly wargonemer in cool season and cooler in the hot season than Thailand. The seasons are more balanced. 2. Can get 90 days on arrival before applying for 2 year visa renewable for 1 more year before you then get permanent residency and no signing on at Immigration every 90 days. Freedom! 3. Financial requirements: must have an income of at least $1500 and open a Bank Account in a local bank with at least $60,000 which you can spend on a property if you want. You are not compelled to keep it there like the 800,000 Baht in Thailand. 4. It is possible to buy a piece of land four times the size of a piece of land in Thailand at half the Thai price. No-one is allowed to own the beach or shoreline. Not even locals. A large number of American Real Estate Agents here. 5. After your initial 3 years you also get free medical care if you ever need it. 6. Costa Rica is the only country in the world without an army. It only ever had one military coup and that was to have a referendum to abolish itself, that the people all voted for. ( A lesson for Thailand maybe? ). 7. Because it has no army to fund it spends more on Education than most other countries. 8. Quite a number of US Film Stars and Entertainers have properties in Costa Rica. Which you won't see in Thailand. 9. There are more animals and plant species than in any other country on the planet. 10. Will not have to go into a shop to be spoken to by a Thai using English words with Thai Grammer.

The DOWNSIDE:

Food costs more. Especially if you want imported American food.  Property can cost more if you don't do your research.

FOOTNOTE: The Amazement has long gone from  Amazing Thailand. Many Americans are gone. Many Europeans are gone. The Chinese have quickly gone. They are now looking to entice the Indians of India who will also soon be gone.

 

The downside is also all the bs involved in doing anything with the government. From your car to your property to even dealing with banks. My friends just gave up on CR after almost 20 years. Just couldn't take it anymore. Moved to Florida. LOL.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

This is not just a theoretical move.  With the continuing restrictions, zero tourism in LP and problems with my ham licence, I've decided to initially move to mainland Turkey, and then maybe move on to North Cyprus after a few months (I need to stay in Turkey for a short time to get my Turkish radio ham licence before I move to North Cyprus - just makes the paperwork easier).

You're older than me, do you really think you have that long left?

[Mac Mickmanus]

13 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

 

Although, I guess, the womb cannot be considered a country, in the strictest sense.

You could just remove the last two letters ?

[simon43]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're older than me, do you really think you have that long left?

I guess about another 30-35 years ????

[William C F Pierce]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

The downside is also all the bs involved in doing anything with the government. From your car to your property to even dealing with banks. My friends just gave up on CR after almost 20 years. Just couldn't take it anymore. Moved to Florida. LOL.

That's just one friend. There's always one. You forget all the thousands that have given up on Thailand. I spent less years going to Spain than Thailand and the language is easier to learn than Thai with all their tones ( Tone, Toan and Toni). One UPSIDE I forgot Costa Rica does not have Thailand's impinging air pollution.

[Jingthing]

12 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

Only one choice. West Coast of Costa Rica. Reasons

The UPSIDE:

1. Weather; slightly wargonemer in cool season and cooler in the hot season than Thailand. The seasons are more balanced. 2. Can get 90 days on arrival before applying for 2 year visa renewable for 1 more year before you then get permanent residency and no signing on at Immigration every 90 days. Freedom! 3. Financial requirements: must have an income of at least $1500 and open a Bank Account in a local bank with at least $60,000 which you can spend on a property if you want. You are not compelled to keep it there like the 800,000 Baht in Thailand. 4. It is possible to buy a piece of land four times the size of a piece of land in Thailand at half the Thai price. No-one is allowed to own the beach or shoreline. Not even locals. A large number of American Real Estate Agents here. 5. After your initial 3 years you also get free medical care if you ever need it. 6. Costa Rica is the only country in the world without an army. It only ever had one military coup and that was to have a referendum to abolish itself, that the people all voted for. ( A lesson for Thailand maybe? ). 7. Because it has no army to fund it spends more on Education than most other countries. 8. Quite a number of US Film Stars and Entertainers have properties in Costa Rica. Which you won't see in Thailand. 9. There are more animals and plant species than in any other country on the planet. 10. Will not have to go into a shop to be spoken to by a Thai using English words with Thai Grammer.

The DOWNSIDE:

Food costs more. Especially if you want imported American food.  Property can cost more if you don't do your research.

FOOTNOTE: The Amazement has long gone from  Amazing Thailand. Many Americans are gone. Many Europeans are gone. The Chinese have quickly gone. They are now looking to entice the Indians of India who will also soon be gone.

 

My info says the retirement income needed is 1000 not 1500 and that it must be imported every month. Are you sure it is 1500?

 

Also my info says the 60k is an option to the income method not an AND..

 

Also you need to renew every two years under the same rules.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Jingthing

[William C F Pierce]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My info says the retirement income needed is 1000 not 1500 and that it must be imported every month. Are you are it is 1500?

 

Also my info says the 60k is an option to the income method not an AND..

 

Also you need to renew every two years under the same rules.

Sorry. You are correct on the $1000. The official information says you can get permanent residency  after 3 years. I have not seen the every 2 year bit, but overall the Upsides are all far better than Thailand. Especially the 90 day sign on. If they changed the Land ownership rules in Thailand I would reconsider Chiang Mai. In Thailand a foreigner is a Government ATM where they take as much tax from as they think they can get away with!

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, William C F Pierce said:

Sorry. You are correct on the $1000. The official information says you can get permanent residency  after 3 years. I have not seen the every 2 year bit, but overall the Upsides are all far better than Thailand. Especially the 90 day sign on. If they changed the Land ownership rules in Thailand I would reconsider Chiang Mai. In Thailand a foreigner is a Government ATM where they take as much tax from as they think they can get away with!

The renewal detail is important as 60k is real money and if you do need to show it more than one time for even one renewal based on bank cash thats not trivial. The income method is similar to Thailand except lower requirement and must be imported with no embassy letter option for any nationality. The irony is you can live decently in Thailand for 1000 a month but not Costa Rica. If it was based on basic cost of living Thailand's income requirement should be lower and Costa Rica higher.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Jingthing

[Caldera]

If I had to leave Thailand, I probably couldn't be bothered with dealing with immigration matters in yet another country yet again.

 

For that reason alone, I'd probably move to an EU country. Spain, Portugal and Greece would be on top of my list of countries to check out further. 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, William C F Pierce said:

That's just one friend. There's always one. You forget all the thousands that have given up on Thailand. I spent less years going to Spain than Thailand and the language is easier to learn than Thai with all their tones ( Tone, Toan and Toni). One UPSIDE I forgot Costa Rica does not have Thailand's impinging air pollution.

Well put! We like CR a lot. It is more expensive. But as you say, lots of positives!

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Caldera said:

If I had to leave Thailand, I probably couldn't be bothered with dealing with immigration matters in yet another country yet again.

 

For that reason alone, I'd probably move to an EU country. Spain, Portugal and Greece would be on top of my list of countries to check out further. 

Yeah makes sense.

For Americans the easiest permanent residence visa option for most is Mexico.

[Mac Mickmanus]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah makes sense.

For Americans the easiest permanent residence visa option for most is Mexico.

Do you have any plans to move to South America ?

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you have any plans to move to South America ?

No. I'm only interested in this as a backup to Thailand in case I'm squeezed out of Thailand as has happened to so many people over the years. BTW, Mexico is in North America. 

[mikebike]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

in case I'm squeezed out of Thailand as has happened to so many people over the years

You say squeezed out. I say bad planning.

 

Most came to live out a fantasy which didn't exist for them financially or unable/unwilling to keep up with changes in exchange rates or regulation to stay.

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, mikebike said:

You say squeezed out. I say bad planning.

 

Most came to live out a fantasy which didn't exist for them financially or unable/unwilling to keep up with changes in exchange rates or regulation to stay.

Not in all cases certainly.

You see Thailand offers no path towards permanent residence for retirees. People can't plan for all possible visa enforcement changes over several years or decades. I advise against Thailand for retirement for new people because of that reason alone.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Jingthing

[simon43]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not in all cases certainly.

You see Thailand offers no path towards permanent residence for retirees. People can't plan for all possible visa enforcement changes over several years or decades. I advise against Thailand for retirement for new people because of that reason alone.

This is also why I'm leaving Laos. There is no retirement visa per say, but visa rules have been relaxed enough that I envisaged living in Laos on an annual business visa until my retirement  (in 3 years from now), then moving to a sunny location by the sea.

 

Unfortunately, the police and immigration departments are cracking down.  I am now 'employed' as unpaid HR Manager for my visa agency, or so it says on my work permit/business visa.  That arrangement doesn't fill me with confidence about future visa renewals.  Additionally (and I've mentioned this too many times), the police cracked down on my legal ham radio activities.  Finally, (and no-one could have forseen this), Covid has changed the status of Luang Prabang from a busy tourist town to an empty town that is economically ruined!  Right now, we are in a 2-week strict lockdown (same thing happened 18 months ago), and I had to lie my way through road blockades just to find some food to buy!

 

So I'm packing up and moving to live in sunny Turkey.  Thailand is not on my list because of the ever-changing rules and attitudes of various officials, as well as the scary possibility of being stalked by my 2 ex-wives....

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, simon43 said:

So I'm packing up and moving to live in sunny Turkey.  Thailand is not on my list because of the ever-changing rules and attitudes of various officials, as well as the scary possibility of being stalked by my 2 ex-wives....

I'm thinking you'll last as long in Turkey as you did in Laos.

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, mikebike said:

Most came to live out a fantasy which didn't exist for them financially or unable/unwilling to keep up with changes in exchange rates or regulation to stay.

Nobody can predict the future.

Not even a little.

 

Just imagine someone in 2019 predicting .......

Next year there will be a disease that kills 1% of the population, all tourism and related industries/businesses will be finished, and every country will close it's borders and destroy it's economy because of it. They would have been laughed off social media.

 

As for fantasy,

Most posters on this thread just listed 3 countries they liked to look of without any consideration of the VISA they would need to live there.

Edited October 13, 2021 by BritManToo

[simon43]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm thinking you'll last as long in Turkey as you did in Laos.

Why?  Turkey has thousands of radio hams, so no problems with my ham licence.  Turkey welcomes foreigners with renewal residency permits.  Turkey is 'open' to visitors now with only mask/social distancing requirements etc.

 

I'm not the one who changes the rules and my living circumstances.  Each time, it has been initiated by a third party.  Realistically, this can happen in any territory.  At least with a clear path to residency, I can minimise my risk of having to move again ????

[Moo 2]

Quebec, Portugal, Cuba, they have real women down there! It's toooooo late now, I am stuck here, but it's not that bad.

[JimmyJ]

simon43 - 

 

How did they find out about your Ham Radio activities?

 

Monitoring/scanning bandwidths?

[simon43]

2 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

simon43 - 

 

How did they find out about your Ham Radio activities?

 

Monitoring/scanning bandwidths?

Nope - the Lao government were fully aware of my activities, because they were the people who issued me with my ham licence in the first place!  They were (and still are) very happy with what I was doing, and even reissued my ham licence last year in the middle of Covid, without me needing to visit Vientiane ????

 

No, it all changed when the local police bigwig drove past my house and saw all my radio antennas, found out that a foreigner lived there, put 2+2 together and got 6, and then descended en mass three times unannounced to see if I was a spy!!  Apparently, he got somewhat annoyed when Vientiane told him that I was fully legal and to get off my back.  I guess he lost face, because the next think is that the licencing office in Vientiane apologizes to me and say that they have 'been instructed' to restrict my ham licence as much as they can, (which means still allowing me to transmit, but only on a very limited frequency range).

 

Ho hum, never mind ???? Sh*t happens, especially when you use radio transmitters in under-developed countries ????

 

 

 

 

[swissie]

11 hours ago, simon43 said:

This is also why I'm leaving Laos. There is no retirement visa per say, but visa rules have been relaxed enough that I envisaged living in Laos on an annual business visa until my retirement  (in 3 years from now), then moving to a sunny location by the sea.

 

Unfortunately, the police and immigration departments are cracking down.  I am now 'employed' as unpaid HR Manager for my visa agency, or so it says on my work permit/business visa.  That arrangement doesn't fill me with confidence about future visa renewals.  Additionally (and I've mentioned this too many times), the police cracked down on my legal ham radio activities.  Finally, (and no-one could have forseen this), Covid has changed the status of Luang Prabang from a busy tourist town to an empty town that is economically ruined!  Right now, we are in a 2-week strict lockdown (same thing happened 18 months ago), and I had to lie my way through road blockades just to find some food to buy!

 

So I'm packing up and moving to live in sunny Turkey.  Thailand is not on my list because of the ever-changing rules and attitudes of various officials, as well as the scary possibility of being stalked by my 2 ex-wives....

Hi Simon, sorry to read that "circumstances" make you want to leave Laos. Was always surprised that in an officially communist country you were allowed as a HAM operator (Espionage!!!). Your leaving of Laos supports my favourite mantra "the doors are closing".

- Turkey and northern Cyprus is not a bad choice. The Turkisch Lira has taken a beating against most other currencies. Making your re-settlement less costly than before.

Turkey has distanced itself from the EU and its "western-values" in recent times. A further strenghtening of Muslim Fundamentalism will have to be monitored carefully.

At any rate, keep us posted how things are going with regard to your re-settlement to Turkey.

[simon43]

[quote]

...Your leaving of Laos supports my favourite mantra "the doors are closing".

[/quote]

 

I fully agree with your mantra, especially as one gets older and no longer wishes to encounter problems with long-stay visas, such as increased financial requirements.  Naming your top three countries is a nice dream discussion, but many such locations no longer welcome foreigners as long stay residents. Is there one country in this side of Asia that actually encourages foreigners to stay long-term? 

[meechai]

1- Andorra

2- Girona Spain

3- Basque Country

[Jingthing]

34 minutes ago, simon43 said:

[quote]

...Your leaving of Laos supports my favourite mantra "the doors are closing".

[/quote]

 

I fully agree with your mantra, especially as one gets older and no longer wishes to encounter problems with long-stay visas, such as increased financial requirements.  Naming your top three countries is a nice dream discussion, but many such locations no longer welcome foreigners as long stay residents. Is there one country in this side of Asia that actually encourages foreigners to stay long-term? 

Yes.

The Philippines SRRV program.

Opening up again but for age 50 and over only.

 

Many of the listed destinations are fantasies but others are quite realistic for many.

 

Things have changed because of the pandemic but not to the point that every place is the same.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Jingthing