Is it illegal to record a conversation with staff members of a company to have proof of what was talked about?

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Always insist on good service, no matter where you are. 

 

Some time ago when I was living on Samui I had an issue with an air conditioner that I had just bought from Homepro. I went into Homepro asking for service and got no satisfaction at all. I asked for the manager which is something that I usually do, when I am not getting anywhere, and she had a terrible attitude and was very unhelpful.
 
I had got her name, went home, looked up the head office in Bangkok, sent them a quick email explaining the situation calling her out by name and within an hour I got a phone call from a vice president telling me that everything would be addressed, and he said that I should go back into the store the following morning. When I did I got a deep bow from the manager, I'm so sorry I misunderstood yesterday. What can I do to make you happy? It was the exact response I wanted the first time around but that I got after she had been scolded by the VP, and likely her job had been threatened if her attitude didn't improve. Sometimes we just have to escalate things to a more senior employer or manager in order to get things done here, sometimes the fools on the floor just don't know what service looks like.
 
My Thai wife was shocked when I first started doing this, as she tried to explain to me that they do not have customer service in Thailand. I explained to her that they sure do! Now she realizes that service does exist, can exist, and will exist if the right amount of will, force and action is brought to the table.

 

 

I think you were just lucky most of the time people at headquarters don't look into these things. Its not how companies work.

 

I insist on value for money, if i rent a shack cheap i can't expect much but if im paying a lot I can. So I adjust expectations based on what I am paying.

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think you were just lucky most of the time people at headquarters don't look into these things. Its not how companies work.

 

I insist on value for money, if i rent a shack cheap i can't expect much but if im paying a lot I can. So I adjust expectations based on what I am paying.

I find the big box stores can and will be held accountable here, most of the time. They are quite concerned about bad PR. 

 

This was not a one off. Has happened on a number of times with different companies. A brilliant move. Step up the chain, until someone smart takes control. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by spidermike007

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I find the big box stores can and will be held accountable here, most of the time. They are quite concerned about bad PR. 

 

This was not a one off. Has happened on a number of times with different companies. A brilliant move. Step up the chain, until someone smart takes control. 

Maybe yes maybe no, just don't really believe you.

 

Thai companies almost never check emails and then your email did not only get checked but got checked by the manager (instead of forwarding it to customer care or something like that)

 

Sorry I think you have been really lucky as most Thai companies don't check emails, don't read English and in general high up managers don't get involved in stuff like this. 

 

*edit as i had doubts i looked at the home pro page*

 

No manager contact details but a general complaint form in English is available. That sounds a lot more convincing then the manager story. Does not sound as tough / exciting though. But something like that could work

 

You having used this page sounds plausible, a manager having his email adress on the site and handling complaints of the public (not so plausible as those things just get kicked onwards to customer service and managers don't waste their time with this stuff they are busy enough)

https://www.homepro.co.th/contactus/index.jsp

Contact Us and Complain

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by robblok

[The Hammer2021]

2 hours ago, Swimfan said:

It would likely be illegal if all parties being recorded did not consent 

No

[zappalot]

59 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

No

thats the answer I want to hear but evidence is a bit thin. Yet in most countries in the (western) world you can record just anything, only publishing is regulated. Same information (anything can be recorded in public) I found for Singapore, just to name an example

[Encore]

If I am concerned about possible responses to a verbal enquiry then I make notes or sometimes record a conversation.  I then write an email or letter to confirm my understanding of what was said and/or agreed (using my notes or the recording as an aide-memoire) and then send the email or letter (with a tracking service or similar, to have proof of delivery).   Irrespective of a reply, this can then be used as written evidence if necessary.  

[Gottfrid]

And again we need a couple of pages, when the OP just want one simple answer.

To OP: Yes it is illegal to record meetings, conversations and people without they knowingly give their approval. In fact, it is even illegal to record phone conversation without giving a notice by person or recorded message from start.

[zappalot]

5 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

And again we need a couple of pages, when the OP just want one simple answer.

To OP: Yes it is illegal to record meetings, conversations and people without they knowingly give their approval. In fact, it is even illegal to record phone conversation without giving a notice by person or recorded message from start.

Interesting, so what about cameras in residential floors of a condo where residents protested against yet were told it is legal to record floor activity.
In general, no one enters our condominium gives consent of being recorded at all times in every corner...

[Salerno]

11 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

To OP: Yes it is illegal to record meetings, conversations and people without they knowingly give their approval. In fact, it is even illegal to record phone conversation without giving a notice by person or recorded message from start.

 

Perhaps you could give the link to the relevant legislation so the OP can confirm it.

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, Salerno said:

 

Perhaps you could give the link to the relevant legislation so the OP can confirm it.

Not going to do a work that everybody know. It´s same in your own country. Also, it has nothing to do with only one law and one link. It´s many laws working together to create the non-legality. Two of them are defamation laws and privacy laws.

If you or the OP wish to check it. Just go ahead. I just gave the answer. I have better things to do with my time. By the way, do not forget to leave my comment a sad face as you usually do.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Gottfrid

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, zappalot said:

Interesting, so what about cameras in residential floors of a condo where residents protested against yet were told it is legal to record floor activity.
In general, no one enters our condominium gives consent of being recorded at all times in every corner...

No, but in that case they are obligated to put up a sign or a sticker somewhere that the area is monitored, the have cctv and so on. I think you have a sign like that, and therefore they have informed. By walking into an area with such sign you automatically give your approval.

[LeatFingies]

Do you need someone’s consent to video record them? No.

 

Do you need to inform someone that they are filmed? No.

 

Do you need to show people that they are being recorded? No.

[LeatFingies]

25 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

No, but in that case they are obligated to put up a sign or a sticker somewhere that the area is monitored, the have cctv and so on. I think you have a sign like that, and therefore they have informed. By walking into an area with such sign you automatically give your approval.

Signs are to deter people from doing anything illegal. They are not there to inform people to protect themselves. 

[spidermike007]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Maybe yes maybe no, just don't really believe you.

 

Thai companies almost never check emails and then your email did not only get checked but got checked by the manager (instead of forwarding it to customer care or something like that)

 

Sorry I think you have been really lucky as most Thai companies don't check emails, don't read English and in general high up managers don't get involved in stuff like this. 

 

*edit as i had doubts i looked at the home pro page*

 

No manager contact details but a general complaint form in English is available. That sounds a lot more convincing then the manager story. Does not sound as tough / exciting though. But something like that could work

 

You having used this page sounds plausible, a manager having his email adress on the site and handling complaints of the public (not so plausible as those things just get kicked onwards to customer service and managers don't waste their time with this stuff they are busy enough)

https://www.homepro.co.th/contactus/index.jsp

Contact Us and Complain

 

Well it happened. Fact. All I can go on. And you don't know me, so doubt all you want. Why would I fabricate a story like that? Think about it. I did not reach out to a VP. I simply sent an articulate note to the email contact on the website. And unlike your supposition that they do not get read, it was responded too quickly. Might have helped that I added that I was averaging 100,000 to 200,000 baht a year in Home Pro expenditures with my hilltop villa, at the time. A VP took it upon himself, called me that day, speaking perfect English, and asked me if I would be kind enough to visit the store again tomorrow. 

 

I suppose with any service anywhere, it comes down to the approach one uses, negotiating skill and fortitude. I do not let these things go. 

 

You can lay down and die, like a submissive sheep in this life, or you can defend your dignity and put up a fight. 

 

I usually choose the latter. Don't consider myself to be a dog or a doormat, and prefer not to let others that I do business with treat me like either. 

 

My Thai wife has been astonished a dozen times when things like this have come up, and she has seen me wage battle. She just  shakes her head and says great job. I had no idea! 

Edited October 10, 2021 by spidermike007

[Swimfan]

4 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

No

No

[Gottfrid]

50 minutes ago, LeatFingies said:

Signs are to deter people from doing anything illegal. They are not there to inform people to protect themselves. 

Doesn´t matter what you think they are there for. The fact is that places that do surveillance in properties where people are living must show a sign to legally can record. The only exception is your own house and garden. That is your land and you can legally use camera surveillance without signs. However, you must carefully look to that the cameras and the recording do not cover the street outside, for example.

[Golden Triangle]

I'm having an issue with a home electronics company as we speak, we bought a brand new oven by a well known Japanese manufacturer, the mrs bought an in oven thermometer and discovered that it wasn't getting up to temperature, it should get to 250 C but only managed to get to 130 / 150 C not good enough.

 

We took it back to the shop who also have an in house repair facility, we'd it had maybe a month, of course they wouldn't give us a new one so said they would order part from the  manufacturer.

 

We were passing about a week later & popped in for an update, yes the part had been ordered, how long said I, no reply except "don't know", this went on for 5 weeks, last week we went back to see them, I was very firm and polite, & they could tell that I was severely hacked off, how long, I asked again, again standard response " don't know "

 

So I told them I wanted the part  number and name of the part ordered, I got home & after a couple of calls I got through to someone with clout at the manufacturer in Bangkok, it would seem that the part had to come from outside Thailand, with a lead time of 6 to 8 weeks, the lady took my mrs phone number and told her as soon as the part came in she would call us.

 

I took much pleasure telling the useless people in the repair shop that as soon as the part was in Thailand we would tell them. The saga continues ????

 

Remind me to post an update of a delivery from a well known carrier, once my package has been delivered tomorrow ????  

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Defamation laws were written by cowards, to scare the less bold amongst us. Do not give into them. They are an enormous societal shortcoming. Ignore them. Defy them. Record to your hearts content. They do not need to know. 

They will know when you want to use it against them.

[wprime]

I tried to film check in staff as evidence to show they refused to rebook me on a new flight within a reasonable time which they were required to do.

 

The ground staff manager said it was a violation of the Computer Crimes Act for me to film them and said they called the police. Maybe check that act.

Edited October 10, 2021 by wprime

[robblok]

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Well it happened. Fact. All I can go on. And you don't know me, so doubt all you want. Why would I fabricate a story like that? Think about it. I did not reach out to a VP. I simply sent an articulate note to the email contact on the website. And unlike your supposition that they do not get read, it was responded too quickly. Might have helped that I added that I was averaging 100,000 to 200,000 baht a year in Home Pro expenditures with my hilltop villa, at the time. A VP took it upon himself, called me that day, speaking perfect English, and asked me if I would be kind enough to visit the store again tomorrow. 

 

I suppose with any service anywhere, it comes down to the approach one uses, negotiating skill and fortitude. I do not let these things go. 

 

You can lay down and die, like a submissive sheep in this life, or you can defend your dignity and put up a fight. 

 

I usually choose the latter. Don't consider myself to be a dog or a doormat, and prefer not to let others that I do business with treat me like either. 

 

My Thai wife has been astonished a dozen times when things like this have come up, and she has seen me wage battle. She just  shakes her head and says great job. I had no idea! 

Look, i just have my suspicions as many seem to bolster their opinion by fictious accounts. 

 

I checked the homepro website and they don't have any email addresses besides the one that goes for help and complaints (not a VIP or manager)

In Thailand they often don't respond to emails, plus the chances get even more slim if in English.

Your rant about how much you spend (typical American attitude) does not impress Thais in general (plus i doubt they can check or will check)

The fact that all over the world managers don't do complaints if they get those in their email they forward them to complaints department. 

 

Its just that your story has a lot of things in it that make it hard to believe. I had a friend (now ex friend) who always came up with most exaggerated stories and he expected me to believe them. Many people around him just humored him but I had enough at some point and called him out. Big fight. 

 

So i have my doubts with your story, sorry that my experiences made me mistrusting of stories and that I apply logic to stories instead of just believing them. Lets put it this way it MIGHT have happened the way you say, but I think if it happened it certainly did not go as you described. I think its more probable you lodged a complaint with a complaint helpdesk and it got fixed. Not all the grand standing about a VIP and Your spending and jobs threatened. But that is just me sorry.

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, robblok said:

Look, i just have my suspicions as many seem to bolster their opinion by fictious accounts. 

 

I checked the homepro website and they don't have any email addresses besides the one that goes for help and complaints (not a VIP or manager)

In Thailand they often don't respond to emails, plus the chances get even more slim if in English.

Your rant about how much you spend (typical American attitude) does not impress Thais in general (plus i doubt they can check or will check)

The fact that all over the world managers don't do complaints if they get those in their email they forward them to complaints department. 

 

Its just that your story has a lot of things in it that make it hard to believe. I had a friend (now ex friend) who always came up with most exaggerated stories and he expected me to believe them. Many people around him just humored him but I had enough at some point and called him out. Big fight. 

 

So i have my doubts with your story, sorry that my experiences made me mistrusting of stories and that I apply logic to stories instead of just believing them. Lets put it this way it MIGHT have happened the way you say, but I think if it happened it certainly did not go as you described. I think its more probable you lodged a complaint with a complaint helpdesk and it got fixed. Not all the grand standing about a VIP and Your spending and jobs threatened. But that is just me sorry.

Doubt all you want. Empirical facts seem not to matter, as you are hellbent on defending your position that getting customer service here is impossible. 

 

Who loses the most, with that attitude? 

 

And I might be slightly offended if I cared one iota what you thought. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by spidermike007

[Surasak]

I believe you should post a notice clearly stating, video and sound recording is taking place. It is then up to those attending, to either agree or not.

There is the means on most phones to record the conversation, but it is only right that you inform the other person, 'This conversation is being recorded'.

If you are then cut off, did they have something to hide?

[tandor]

..have a third party record it unbeknownst to them, and then later consider if you need to use it...the third party can then be be called as a witness.

[phetphet]

On 10/10/2021 at 12:45 PM, zappalot said:

Definitely they would. They are very talk active presenting themselves in the best light possible at all times, no matter how much audience. Not sure if we can convince the BMA again. They told us that some management officials went to the BMA after their visit complaining about the visit since the building is in perfect condition (that was before the BMA issued the report, management thought by complaining they can avoid a report). But it seems to me that BMA has the right to inspect but no further rights to force a management to get active.

Why not just tell them, "I will be video recording this meeting today?" Make sure that you record you telling them as well, plus any reaction..

 

That way you will have all the evidence, if they don't walk away.

Surely defamation is only that if you indeed use said recording.

 

But at least that way you will have the your proof and can let a judge decide if it can be used or not.

[MRToMRT]

Doe not your condo committee have the right to dismiss the facilities management contractor for such serious fire safety compliance issues? 

 

 

[robblok]

10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Doubt all you want. Empirical facts seem not to matter, as you are hellbent on defending your position that getting customer service here is impossible. 

 

Who loses the most, with that attitude? 

 

And I might be slightly offended if I cared one iota what you thought. 

Not hellbent on proving my point as customer service is possible. Just not believing all your grandstanding of a farang victoriously coming on top with a Thai manager shivering in fear because of a complaint that reached a VIP (strange that the Homepro website has no such emails addresses) But it has a regular complaints email (that is far more believable).

 

Point i doubt, that you contacted a high up VIP (no such emails at the website), That your spending was checked or impressed anyone (highly doubt they can check it easy) That the manager had to fear for his or her job. (all details to make your story much more interesting and you the big farang hero defending your rights)

 

What I don't doubt is that you contacted someone at the help desk and got the service you deserved. (but sounds a lot less exciting)

 

Sorry call me skeptical because of past experiences with people who liked to embellish stories to the extreme. 

[nobodysfriend]

What about recording a government official asking for bribes ?

That happened quite recently at immigration somewhere and caused an investigation and problems for the officers concerned ...

What happened to the one who did the recording ? I do not know ...

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Not hellbent on proving my point as customer service is possible. Just not believing all your grandstanding of a farang victoriously coming on top with a Thai manager shivering in fear because of a complaint that reached a VIP (strange that the Homepro website has no such emails addresses) But it has a regular complaints email (that is far more believable).

 

Point i doubt, that you contacted a high up VIP (no such emails at the website), That your spending was checked or impressed anyone (highly doubt they can check it easy) That the manager had to fear for his or her job. (all details to make your story much more interesting and you the big farang hero defending your rights)

 

What I don't doubt is that you contacted someone at the help desk and got the service you deserved. (but sounds a lot less exciting)

 

Sorry call me skeptical because of past experiences with people who liked to embellish stories to the extreme. 

And you are completely dismissing the possibility that the website has changed in the past ten years? Glad you are not my lawyer. 

 

Your honor, I am sorry my lawyer does not think of these possibilities. He simply loves to doubt. 

[Grusa]

On 10/10/2021 at 12:45 PM, kingstonkid said:

Do not forget that a little brown envelope or good deed done for the BMA can change any report.

That's a bit defamatory, surely..............

[Srikcir]

On 10/10/2021 at 12:08 PM, robblok said:

You probably can record it if they want, but i doubt you can record if they don't want. Its not as if you can force them to speak on the record. So practically you lost and you better get to terms with it. 

 

What is it that is ticking you off what is that major problem that you can't get solved and need recordings for. Probably something irrelevant otherwise you would have mentioned it and made your post a bit clearer.

 

 

 

There are other ways to "record" a conversation.

Bring a stenographer or two to write the conversation. It's in plain site and intent is clear.