social security spousal benefits after death

[rodknock]

is there any one who knows about social security benefits after death to a Thai. woman, no dependents.

what are the requirments and how to go about getting it.

thanks

[thaitom]

i read on their website SSI  , that your thai wife has to haved lived in the usa for so many years ( 5 years) with you. to be able to claim the benefit    https://www.crevelingandcreveling.com/blog/what-expat-americans-foreign-spouses-need-know-about-social-security

[KhunLA]

If holding a 'residence card' then yes.  I think

https://finance.zacks.com/can-noncitizen-wife-receive-social-security-benefits-after-die-5427.html

 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/determining-alien-tax-status

[Liverpool Lou]

55 minutes ago, rodknock said:

is there any one who knows about social security benefits after death to a Thai. woman, no dependents.

what are the requirments and how to go about getting it.

After the death of whom, her Thai husband, her Thai partner, her foreign husband, her foreign partner?   Thai SS benefits or SS benefits from another country?

Edited October 21, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[rodknock]

american husband dieing, is thai wife eligible for benefits?

[nitehawk42]

Thaitom is correct. 5 years residence in US required. Otherwise your Thai wife gets nothing, I am in same boat.

[IAMHERE]

Would that be 5 continuous years or one year every other year until she reaches five?  Or 6 months here and there until she gets the total 5 years in?

[thailand49]

I believe the poster is asking THAI WIFE dying and the Social Security benefit in Thailand not abroad?

Yes his question is very lacking in information but that is how I took it.

 

 

[drtreelove]

1 hour ago, rodknock said:

american husband dieing, is thai wife eligible for benefits?

If qualified (5 yrs etc) send the attached form to the FBU US Embassy Manila in order to get her on record. I don't know how it plays out of course, as I'm still kickin', but she would need your death certificate and all other appropriate documentation. And probably a lot of patience and determination, and maybe some help from an attorney or beaurocracy-literate friend.  

SSA-21 (2).pdf

[Artben]

Just going through that for the Thai wife of an American.  Wife can receive benefits IF she has lived in the US for a minimum of 5 years.  The five years do NOT have to be consecutive.  If she does not meet that requirement she MAY be able to come to the US for a minimum of 1 calendar month, fill out the paper work and receive benefits for 6 months.  This can be repeated.  Social Security benefits office in Manila is very helpful.

[thaitom]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:22 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

After the death of whom, her Thai husband, her Thai partner, her foreign husband, her foreign partner?   Thai SS benefits or SS benefits from another country?

you didn't understand ?

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, thaitom said:

On 10/21/2021 at 3:22 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

After the death of whom, her Thai husband, her Thai partner, her foreign husband, her foreign partner?   Thai SS benefits or SS benefits from another country?

you didn't understand ?

Obviously, hence my questions.   You assumed what he meant, I just asked him to clarify a very muddy OP.

[LarrySR]

USA Social Security spousal benefits can go to a foreign spouse if the spouse held a Social Security card.

A Green Card holder can quickly get a SS Card while residing in the USA. (not sure about the 5 year minimum mentioned above)

 

Also, a divorced spouse with a SS Card, (married minimum 10 years), will also be able to piggy back on the ex-spouses account receiving 50% the amount at age 62. 

When the ex-spouse dies, the divorced survivor can contact SS and receive 100% I believe.

 

I receive $1,000 per month and my ex Thai wife with a SS Card turns 62 next year & begins to receive $500 and bumps up to $1,000 if I croak. (don't tell her that)

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by LarrySR

[mudcat]

We waited the three years until my wife was naturalzed as the residence qualifying seemed to take more time and was filled with gotchas.  As to how much a spouse can receive it depends on whether there are minor children and how close to full retirement age they are. A spouse at 60 receives 70% of your Primary Insurance Amount which is what your work history wouldhave entitled you to if you had waited until your full retirement age.  

 

Do searches for social security EN-05-10084.pdf survior's benefits  and EN-05-10137.pdf for benefits paid overseas.

[kiwikeith]

On 10/22/2021 at 12:27 PM, rodknock said:

american husband dieing, is thai wife eligible for benefits?

I don’t know about the American system, I do know a thai women who gets 2 lots ,one from first UK husband and second lot from 2nd husband who was 

my friend and recently passed on.

[DrDave]

On 10/21/2021 at 7:27 PM, rodknock said:

american husband dieing, is thai wife eligible for benefits?

In general, after you die your wife is entitled to your SS benefit if she has been married to you a minimum of 5 years, and has lived in the US for a total of 5 years or more. She is entitled to your benefit amount at her full retirement age, with reductions taken for each year she begins to draw benefits prior to her full retirement age. Full retirement age is based upon her date of birth.

[JimGant]

On 10/28/2021 at 4:53 AM, DrDave said:

In general, after you die your wife is entitled to your SS benefit if she has been married to you a minimum of 5 years, and has lived in the US for a total of 5 years or more.

But, those five years have to include your marriage years. If you meet your wife when she's already lived in the States for five years, those five years don't count -- only those following your marriage.

[cmarshall]

On 10/28/2021 at 4:53 AM, DrDave said:

In general, after you die your wife is entitled to your SS benefit if she has been married to you a minimum of 5 years, and has lived in the US for a total of 5 years or more. She is entitled to your benefit amount at her full retirement age, with reductions taken for each year she begins to draw benefits prior to her full retirement age. Full retirement age is based upon her date of birth.

Not quite right.  The spousal benefit is 50% of the husband's Full Retirement Age benefit, if he waited until FRA to claim benefits.  If however, the husband claimed his benefits earlier than FRA, for instance at age 62, then his benefits will be permanently reduced and the spousal benefit will be half of his reduced benefit.  On the other hand, if he waited until age 70 to claim his benefits in order to earn Delayed Retirement Credits, he would receive a permanently higher benefit.  However, the spousal benefit would not reflect any DRCS and would be half of what the husband's benefit would have been at his FRA.

 

She can only receive a spousal benefit if the husband has already filed for and is receiving his retirement benefit.  She will receive her full spousal benefit if she has reached her FRA before she claims.  She can claim as early as age 62, but would then receive a reduced spousal benefit.  

 

If the husband dies while she is receiving a spousal benefit, the SSA will automatically convert her spousal benefit to the survivor's benefit.  She does not have to notify the SSA of his death since they will know.  The survivor's benefit will reflect any DRCs that the husband may earned by claiming later than his FRA, but if he dies before she reaches her own FRA, the survivor's benefit that she receives will be permanently reduced.  She will have no choice to delay at that point, unless she has qualified for SS benefits on her own earnings record.

 

A foreign national is eligible to receive the spousal benefit if she lived married with her American husband in the US for at least five years.  Presumably, she would have to provide documentation to support that claim, which might be difficult after the passage of time.

[cmarshall]

On 10/21/2021 at 2:46 PM, KhunLA said:

If holding a 'residence card' then yes.  I think

https://finance.zacks.com/can-noncitizen-wife-receive-social-security-benefits-after-die-5427.html

 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/determining-alien-tax-status

She doesn't need to have a US green card to receive SS spousal benefits on her American husband's earnings history.  However, she must have previously had a green card in order to have lived legally in the US as man and wife for five years.  However, once she has moved out of the US the green card would have expired after six months, but she could still collect her spousal benefit if she met the other criteria.

[keemapoot]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:28 PM, mudcat said:

We waited the three years until my wife was naturalzed as the residence qualifying seemed to take more time and was filled with gotchas.  As to how much a spouse can receive it depends on whether there are minor children and how close to full retirement age they are. A spouse at 60 receives 70% of your Primary Insurance Amount which is what your work history wouldhave entitled you to if you had waited until your full retirement age.  

 

Do searches for social security EN-05-10084.pdf survior's benefits  and EN-05-10137.pdf for benefits paid overseas.

That's absolutely the smartest way to do it to guarantee she receives benefits without question. The spouse has to hold the green card for 3 years, and 90 days before that 3 year period is up can file for US naturalization (US Passport). The process takes about a year, so total of 4 years. The green card only method means five years and time out of the country is counted and as you state full of gotchas.

[DrDave]

4 hours ago, cmarshall said:

Not quite right.  The spousal benefit is 50% of the husband's Full Retirement Age benefit, if he waited until FRA to claim benefits.  If however, the husband claimed his benefits earlier than FRA, for instance at age 62, then his benefits will be permanently reduced and the spousal benefit will be half of his reduced benefit.  On the other hand, if he waited until age 70 to claim his benefits in order to earn Delayed Retirement Credits, he would receive a permanently higher benefit.  However, the spousal benefit would not reflect any DRCS and would be half of what the husband's benefit would have been at his FRA.

 

She can only receive a spousal benefit if the husband has already filed for and is receiving his retirement benefit.  She will receive her full spousal benefit if she has reached her FRA before she claims.  She can claim as early as age 62, but would then receive a reduced spousal benefit.  

 

If the husband dies while she is receiving a spousal benefit, the SSA will automatically convert her spousal benefit to the survivor's benefit.  She does not have to notify the SSA of his death since they will know.  The survivor's benefit will reflect any DRCs that the husband may earned by claiming later than his FRA, but if he dies before she reaches her own FRA, the survivor's benefit that she receives will be permanently reduced.  She will have no choice to delay at that point, unless she has qualified for SS benefits on her own earnings record.

 

A foreign national is eligible to receive the spousal benefit if she lived married with her American husband in the US for at least five years.  Presumably, she would have to provide documentation to support that claim, which might be difficult after the passage of time.

You've provided an excellent description of the difference between a spousal benefit and a survivor benefit - thank you.  I had only addressed the survivor benefit (which is not capped at 50%) because the OP was asking about benefit entitlement after the American husband dies.

 

Many people should find the spousal benefit information you provided helpful as well. You raise an interesting question... what sort of proof does the SSA accept regarding the 5 years of US residency after marriage?

[Silencer]

5 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

A foreign national is eligible to receive the spousal benefit if she lived married with her American husband in the US for at least five years.  Presumably, she would have to provide documentation to support that claim, which might be difficult after the passage of time.

This is an important point. If you already have established 'living in the US at least 5 years as a married couple', then make sure she has that documentation to prove it so she does not have to go searching for proof after you die. Talk with the office in the Philippines that can tell you what documentation you could use for that proof (tax returns, green cards, W-2's etc).  

[Bohemianfish]

10 years married, an eligible spouse (married and living in the USA for 5 years) can get 50% of spouse's SS when the eligible spouse is 67 (born after 1960) years old. Before that, it decreases, so when eligible spouse is 62, then they would get 70% of the 50%. Each month they wait, it increases a bit until they attain full retirement age (again, 67 at age 1960). So they don't get 50% at 62 of what you get. And the longer you wait, of course, it increases up to FRA to 67. 

 

So if you get $1,000 at 62, your spouse will get $1000*.5*.7 = $350. 

 

If the eligible spouse worked 40 credits (10 years, 4 quarters per year) and they they see that they would get more money for SS based on spouse's SS, then they can claim that.

 

If the eligible spouse divorces at 10 years and remarries, they will lose the SS (if they don't have their own.

 

My Thai wife is a US citizen and works. She' a couple of years off from the 40 credits. When she gets to 40, her SS won't be even close to mine. I plan to wait until 67 to get FRA. So at 62, she will get $___ * .5 * .7. She can wait, but I'm 10 years older than her and it's probably best for her to take it as soon as possible.

[cmarshall]

8 hours ago, Bohemianfish said:

10 years married, an eligible spouse (married and living in the USA for 5 years) can get 50% of spouse's SS when the eligible spouse is 67 (born after 1960) years old. Before that, it decreases, so when eligible spouse is 62, then they would get 70% of the 50%. Each month they wait, it increases a bit until they attain full retirement age (again, 67 at age 1960). So they don't get 50% at 62 of what you get. And the longer you wait, of course, it increases up to FRA to 67. 

 

So if you get $1,000 at 62, your spouse will get $1000*.5*.7 = $350. 

 

If the eligible spouse worked 40 credits (10 years, 4 quarters per year) and they they see that they would get more money for SS based on spouse's SS, then they can claim that.

 

If the eligible spouse divorces at 10 years and remarries, they will lose the SS (if they don't have their own.

 

My Thai wife is a US citizen and works. She' a couple of years off from the 40 credits. When she gets to 40, her SS won't be even close to mine. I plan to wait until 67 to get FRA. So at 62, she will get $___ * .5 * .7. She can wait, but I'm 10 years older than her and it's probably best for her to take it as soon as possible.

Not quite correct.  Remarriage does not affect the spousal benefit.  Neither does divorce if they have been married at least ten years.  Ten years of marriage is not required to be eligible for spousal benefits; one year is enough.

 

Once your wife achieves her forty quarters, then she can apply at sixty-two for benefits on her own earnings and wait until her FRA to apply for spousal benefits if that would be greater than her own benefit.

[keemapoot]

9 hours ago, Bohemianfish said:

10 years married, an eligible spouse (married and living in the USA for 5 years) can get 50% of spouse's SS when the eligible spouse is 67 (born after 1960) years old. Before that, it decreases, so when eligible spouse is 62, then they would get 70% of the 50%. Each month they wait, it increases a bit until they attain full retirement age (again, 67 at age 1960). So they don't get 50% at 62 of what you get. And the longer you wait, of course, it increases up to FRA to 67. 

 

So if you get $1,000 at 62, your spouse will get $1000*.5*.7 = $350. 

 

If the eligible spouse worked 40 credits (10 years, 4 quarters per year) and they they see that they would get more money for SS based on spouse's SS, then they can claim that.

 

If the eligible spouse divorces at 10 years and remarries, they will lose the SS (if they don't have their own.

 

My Thai wife is a US citizen and works. She' a couple of years off from the 40 credits. When she gets to 40, her SS won't be even close to mine. I plan to wait until 67 to get FRA. So at 62, she will get $___ * .5 * .7. She can wait, but I'm 10 years older than her and it's probably best for her to take it as soon as possible.

I agree with all you said except the 50% part. In my understanding from reading the SSA brochure on survivors benefits, the foreign spouse receives from 70-100% of deceased spouse's retirement benefit amount. I have read nothing about a reduction of 50%?

[mudcat]

This has been a valuable thread for those of us with U.S. Social Security benefits that we hope will pass to our Thai wife.

 

I urge those who remain uncertain about what the benefit would be, I urge them to take the time to work with the Social Security's detailed calculator which I believe is similar to what the agency uses to determine your and your spouse's benefits:  https://www.ssa.gov/oact/anypia/anypia.html

 

The initial setup and data entry is a pain (and may trigger nightmares for those who remember pre-web forms) but once you are up and running you can re-run each year (for example to capture next-years COLA amount).  

 

The setup I used was

Basic Worker Information Form

My full name

My Social Security number

My date of birth

My date of death (no, I am not a ghost, I just use January 1st of the next year)

My address - I used a U.S. address, but I suppose 

In options of limited applicability I noted I was in the military prior to 1968

Radio buttons - 

Sex (binary only)

Type of Benefit - I clicked Survivor for this purpose

At the bottom of the form I entered 1 for my wife.

 

Supplemental Worker Information form

Date of benefit - The month and year your spouse turns 60-years old

Earnings years - You need to enter your work-life end year + 1 to capture your last year.

Radio buttons

Backwards - none

Forward - in line with average wage increases

Last year - I entered 2020

Percentage factor - 0

 

Family Information form

I entered my wife's birthday

I entered the month and year of my wife's 60th birthday

Radio Button

Type of Survivor - I clicked aged widow(er) - hide this from your wife

 

 Annual Earnings Information

Tedious, but necessary 

Enter your first annual earnings (mine was $326 - after school supermarket)

Radio button - I was always a wage slave, but if you were self-employed you are on your own.

Click Next Year button and do it over again

 

Once everything is entered go to file and click calculate estimate button

If you don't get any error messages you will see your PIA (in current dollars) on the first page and your wife's benefit at 60-years old on the fourth page.  Note that this is 71.5% of your PIA - if you are closer in age you will need to adjust the above ages and dates.

 

steve