Cash withdrawal with Visa or Mastercard cheaper then ATM?

[stat]

I learned about the possibility of a so called cash advance inside the bank instead of using the ATM. However some bank apply their own FX rate instead of the one used by Visa/MC. Any experience or recommendation on which banks to use to get the creditcard rate? Are there any limits on the cash advance other then the card limit?

 

My aim ist to exchange 100.000 Baht at a time without paying 4 times the 220 Baht every time I exchange money. Superrich is an alternative when I arrive. Opening a bank account and using swift involves opening a thai bank acc, which some descibe as tricky and hopefully I wont need one with my OA Visa.  IMHO the account cost and SWIFT fees amount to about the same as using a good cc. For Wise transfers the fees gets substential with 100.000 Baht, however fx rates are good but afaik all in all the result is the same as with a good cc.

 

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions!

 

PS: I have a cc which gives me the FX rate without any % addition fees or cost other then the 220 Baht ATM Fee

[fdsa]

I used it a few times but with only one bank - Krungsri - so other banks may be different.

Ask to "get cash from card", staff will take your card, put into the terminal and ask to input the PIN code. They somehow process the cash withdrawal as a "purchase in merchant", so the currency exchange rate should be good (at least it is with my home country bank - you'd get a much better exchange rate when paying for something with the card rather when just withdrawing cash from the ATM).

I don't know about the limits but heard that it's 100K THB per withdrawal. Fun story: I've successfully withdrawn 100K once, and then a few days later I came to the very same bank branch and tried to withdraw 100K from the very same card again, but the transaction was refused. I knew I had enough money on the balance and had no any limits on the card (disabled everything via online banking for this very purpose), so I insisted on repeating the withdrawal, but all transactions were refused. Then we tried a smaller sum - 50K THB, and transaction succeeded. So we just did two withdrawals for 50K, note that if you would run into the same issue.

[The Hammer2021]

I would definitely get a bank account here. And use swift. It really makes life easier using a local bank cash card

[soi3eddie]

7 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I would definitely get a bank account here. And use swift. It really makes life easier using a local bank cash card

I send from my UK account to Wise (2 seconds). Then Wise to my Thai account (a few more seconds and very good exchange rate). Take out cash at Thai Atm or in branch with minimal costs. Job done.

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by soi3eddie

[cdemundo]

I am wondering about some of these same issues.

In the past I have used a Schwab bank ATM card which has no fee for international use and refunds ATM fees at the end of each month.

I have been looking at the exchange rate vs. Wise effective rate and it seems to be favorable.

 

Has anyone used Moneygram for transfers?

Experience and pros and cons of using Schwab vs Wise vs Moneygram?

Experience often reveals the flaws in using one system or the other, I have a Wise account but have not used it to get money in Thailand.

 

Also, is it imperative to have a Thai bank account if not on retirement visa that requires deposit in Thai bank?

Edited October 22, 2021 by cdemundo
spelling

[FritsSikkink]

A Thai bank account isn't tricky at all, never had issues for years and years. There is quite some money there too.

[Sticky Rice Balls]

I was lucky to have worked in LOS so was able to open bank acct..

 

However prior to that I would take out max amount each time due to fees..30k

 

I use Bank of BKK and a trick I found to avoid atm fee is to go INTO bank--dress nice--smile(thai style)-prior to having an acct..

 

I went to counter and said I wanted 30k+ take out with my atm card(usa)..she says use atm..I said I need more than atm allows to withdrawal..

I smile again,and say its for my thai gf, buying her a scoopy mbike(not).........works every time...give it a shot--nothing to lose!

 

they have a card swipe machine on counter and have her process it and give u the cash..tested and approved!

[Pib]

I use one of my U.S. debit cards which has a $5K USD daily counter withdrawal limit to do cash advances at Krungsri Bank and Bangkok Bank.  Been doing it for years.   When doing such a withdrawal at these banks you get the Mastercard/Visa exchange rate depending on which logo card you have...they don't try the Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) where they try to give you their own "lower" rate.  Now SCB attempts the DCC thing.

 

I typically withdraw 150K to 165K baht depending on the exchange rate as I try to get pretty close to the $5K USD limit.  I always check the Mastercard exchange rate before doing the exchange so I know how much to ask for without hitting my $5K limit.  Now keep in mind the your card-issuing home country bank surely has a daily limit for the card for counter or ATM withdrawal--so, be sure you know what that limit is before attempting a withdrawal.  No use trying to withdraw say $5K USD equivalent of baht at the counter if the card's limits is say $1K USD equivalent. 

 

I've been primarily using Krungsri for the last few years just because the branch I do the cash advance at (just a branch inside a mall) is more convenient close to me that the Bangkok Bank branch I sometimes used.  Depending on your card logo (Visa or Mastercard) they may charge a Bt200 fee for counter withdrawal.  Krungsri charges Bt200 for a Visa card I think, but nothing for a Mastercard.  Bangkok did not charge any fee a few years ago...don't know if they do now or not.

 

The card I use does not have any foreign transaction fee....and Krungsri does not charge any counter fee....and I get the full Mastercard exchange rate.  When all the conversion/fee dust settles you I more baht than if using a money transfer service like Wise, SWIFT, etc.  And I  immediately have the money in hand.   I have bank accts at both Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank, so whenever I do a cash advance with the card I just have the withdrawal directly deposited into my acct with the bank...it's like a combo transaction....counter withdrawal using a foreign card and depositing that withdrawal into your Thai bank acct.  And no, you don't get international transfer coding for the deposit...it's just coded like any other deposit you make at the counter or Cash Deposit Machine.

 

[Moonlover]

On 10/22/2021 at 10:06 PM, stat said:

Opening a bank account and using swift involves opening a thai bank acc, which some descibe as tricky

Some might describe as tricky. They are the usual tribe of negative thinkers.

 

Getting a Thai bank account is not difficult at all, it just takes a bit of persistence. It took me 3 visits and about half an hour to find the 'bank that says yes'. Krungsri had my account up and running, complete with ATM card (now a Visa chip and PIN debit card) within 45 minutes.

 

I use Wise to transfer my monthly pension payments, which now only take around 10 secs and with mid market exchange rates is way better than any other method I've found to date.

 

My UK debit card now stays safely locked away at home.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

i withdrew 100k from Krungsri, using my credit card, the limit is the credit limit my bank told me

[ChaiyaTH]

People must really live back in time if having these hurdles or struggles. So simple; open local account and no ATM costs or 20B in other provinces, if visiting other provinces frequently; open a local account there too and connect it to the apps.

[stat]

On 10/22/2021 at 6:59 PM, fdsa said:

I used it a few times but with only one bank - Krungsri - so other banks may be different.

Ask to "get cash from card", staff will take your card, put into the terminal and ask to input the PIN code. They somehow process the cash withdrawal as a "purchase in merchant", so the currency exchange rate should be good (at least it is with my home country bank - you'd get a much better exchange rate when paying for something with the card rather when just withdrawing cash from the ATM).

I don't know about the limits but heard that it's 100K THB per withdrawal. Fun story: I've successfully withdrawn 100K once, and then a few days later I came to the very same bank branch and tried to withdraw 100K from the very same card again, but the transaction was refused. I knew I had enough money on the balance and had no any limits on the card (disabled everything via online banking for this very purpose), so I insisted on repeating the withdrawal, but all transactions were refused. Then we tried a smaller sum - 50K THB, and transaction succeeded. So we just did two withdrawals for 50K, note that if you would run into the same issue.

I understand 150K Baht is the max for 1 transaction in Thailand. In addition you have the withdrawal limit on your cc. I think this is why it worked the first time with 100K but not the second time, because transactions were in the same month.

 

Thanks Pib for your answer here and the ones you gave in 2018 in this forum comparing all the results of different methods. Best information I found on this topic!

[fdsa]

11 minutes ago, stat said:

I understand 150K Baht is the max for 1 transaction in Thailand. In addition you have the withdrawal limit on your cc. I think this is why it worked the first time with 100K but not the second time, because transactions were in the same month.

nope, it was some problem with Krungsri payment terminal, because:

- I made a 50k withdrawal and 50k more 1 (one) minute later. So it was 100k in a single day, and 200k+ total in a few days.

- the daily withdrawal limit on my card is about 300k THB ($10k AFAIR)

 

[fdsa]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Some might describe as tricky. They are the usual tribe of negative thinkers.

 

Getting a Thai bank account is not difficult at all, it just takes a bit of persistence. It took me 3 visits and about half an hour to find the 'bank that says yes'. Krungsri had my account up and running, complete with ATM card (now a Visa chip and PIN debit card) within 45 minutes.

Getting a Thai bank account is easy - you just need to spend a week searching for a branch that will agree to open an account for a farang without work permit. Positive thinking!

[stat]

At which date is a cash withdrawal booked on my cc account? I always suspected MC or Visa "chooses" the date to their linking i.e. the most unfavorable date for me in a time period but never really checked. Any reservation about doing a cash withdrawal on a Sunday (Bad FX rate)? I will arrive Saturday and leave SHA+ Hotel Saturday evening or Sunday morning or should I wait until Monday. Thanks!

[gim12]

i keep my funds in a USA bank that waives all atm fees for both foreign and domestic (usa) withdrawls,  in USA there is both Schwab Investments  and First Republic bank, they  reimburse the disbursing bank fees  and waive their own fees also, wells fargo bank will waive their fees but not the disbursing bank charges, various banks in other  countries offer fee reimbursement for  atm fees, both the UK and Australia have banks that refund also, it has worked for me for years with no problem

[Salerno]

36 minutes ago, stat said:

At which date is a cash withdrawal booked on my cc account? I always suspected MC or Visa "chooses" the date to their linking i.e. the most unfavorable date for me in a time period but never really checked.

Last time I looked into this (probably close to 5 years ago now) the consensus was MasterCard was processed on the day of the transaction and Visa the day after.

[Pib]

7 hours ago, stat said:

At which date is a cash withdrawal booked on my cc account? I always suspected MC or Visa "chooses" the date to their linking i.e. the most unfavorable date for me in a time period but never really checked. Any reservation about doing a cash withdrawal on a Sunday (Bad FX rate)? I will arrive Saturday and leave SHA+ Hotel Saturday evening or Sunday morning or should I wait until Monday. Thanks!

if it's a debit card transaction it will usually be the actual date you did the transaction; but if it's a credit card in might be a day or two after the actual transaction date based on my personal experience as I use my U.S. debit and credit cards a LOT in Thailand.  This is because the settlement process used for debit and credit cards is a little different....a debit card transaction settles faster. 

 

And by "settles" I mean when the bank/merchant initiating the transaction has completed all its necessary actions required for the card network (i.e., Visa/Mastercard/AmEx/UnionPay/etc) to lock into stone what your home country card-issuing bank/company must pay to settle with the bank/merchant on the other end.

 

And do not confuse the date of final posting on your bank/card account to the exchange rate settlement date used, because bank/card company accounting systems vary in how they process & show a transaction varies, etc.   The posting date shown on your statement may be different than the actual settlement date established by the card network.  The exchange rate actually shown on your statement or you personally calculate may not match with the card network date....but you will fine the exchange rate shown by the bank does match perfectly (like to the fifth decimal place) to the preceding day which may have been the actual date of the transaction...or a day or two after.    it just banks vary in how they display/document a transaction.

 

Personally, I long forgot about worrying about the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate I will get when I go make a cash withdrawal, buy an item, etc., because I know in the absence of some major financial event the exchange rate varies little from day to day...up a little or down a little.   Your chances are probably 50-50 that if you buy an item today that if you don't get today's exchange rate but get the next day's exchange rate that the next day's exchange rate will be a little better.  

 

And if you are doing a withdrawal/purchase on/around a weekend then with Visa the exchange rate for Sat-Mon is generally locked/the same...the same for each one of those 3 days.  And for Mastercard the generally lock their rates for Fri-Sun.    So, for 3 days each week the rates are generally locked and for 4 days they go up or down a little each day.  Don't believe me....go the the Visa & Mastercard exchange rate website and check exchange rates for different days, especially their rates Fri-Mon.   Enter a transaction amount...check the exchange rate given for that date like for a Sat and then just change the date to see if/how much the rate changes.

 

Visa Exchange Rate Webpage

 

Mastercard Exchange Rate Webpage

 

And for you folks with cards which charge a foreign transaction fee which is generally in the 1 to 3% (or sometimes higher) ballpark, well, remember that's your "card-issuing bank" charging that fee which effectively lowers the real card-network exchange rate.  Blame your card-issuing bank for that fee....don't blame the card-network or the bank/merchant where you actually did the transaction.  Any yes, some merchants may try to charge extra for a transaction or a Thai bank giving you money may try to get you to accept their DCC transaction (i.e., get their lower local rate)...don't blame that on card-network or your card-issuing bank for that local fee. 

 

For me, the great majority of my U.S. debit/credit cards do not charge a foreign transaction fees so they are the only ones that get used in Thailand....the other ones live in the darkness of my safe and/or only used for U. S. buys/payments where the foreign fee would not be applied.  And I have several debit cards that also reimburse all ATM fees like the Thai bank Bt220 fee....but for the most part I just do counter-withdrawals with my debit card (a cap1 card) that allows up to $5K per day counter withdrawal and another $1K at an ATM (but no ATM fee reimbursement).   Periodically walking into a bank and doing a counter withdrawal for Bt150K using that card supplies my "money from the home country" needs to top-up my Thai bank accts with baht. 

 

And this method in terms of "most baht at the least cost" beats all other methods to include Wise transfers.   Years back I use to post periodically some cost comparisons like this 1 July 2020 comparison.  Wise fees are a "tad" lower now but I don't think lower enough to make much of a difference in the cost analysis.  Heck for a $5,000 counter withdrawal using my debit card I got almost Bt1000 more than what a Wise transfer would have.   For a $1000 withdrawal it would be about Bt300 more.  Yea, if you have a no foreign transaction fee debit card which say has a healthy  daily counter withdrawal limit it is by far the best way to get the most baht.   And I use to say another benefit of a counter withdrawal over a money transfer is you get the money instantly in hand using a card which is still true, but since you can now also get money instantly thru Wise then card use or Wise use in terms of "how long it takes to get the money" has evened out.   Now it just basically boils down to "most baht got after all the exchange rate/fee dust settles along with time/effort in getting the money."   For me using my card still gets me the most money and the time/effort in doing it is only 5 to 10 minutes at the bank branch in my nearby Lotus mall that the wife and I go to multiple times per week for grocery shopping.

 

A 1 July 2020 Comparison

Edited October 27, 2021 by Pib

[Salerno]

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

And this method in terms of "most baht at the least cost" ...

You can't post these type of facts, the "cash is king" mob will have palpitations. They never seem to have a good argument when you point out that yes, in day to day life much of Thailand is still cash based but unless you are paid in Baht ...

[Moonlover]

12 hours ago, fdsa said:

Getting a Thai bank account is not difficult at all, it just takes a bit of persistence. It took me 3 visits and about half an hour to find the 'bank that says yes'.

 

12 hours ago, fdsa said:

Getting a Thai bank account is easy - you just need to spend a week searching for a branch that will agree to open an account for a farang without work permit. Positive thinking!

Like I said, you need a bit of persistence. I'm sure there are many thousands of falangs in Thailand, without a work permit, who have nether the less managed to open a local bank account. I'm just one of those many. 

 

Experiences vary of course, but the problem with this forum is that you tend to hear the moans and groans from the few with a bad experience whilst the many thousands who have an easy time just get on with their lives.

 

Hence the comments such as the one by @stat in his O/P.

[4MyEgo]

On 10/23/2021 at 2:06 AM, stat said:

I learned about the possibility of a so called cash advance inside the bank instead of using the ATM. However some bank apply their own FX rate instead of the one used by Visa/MC.

Krungsri Bank, over the counter withdrawal of up to 150k baht, fee if I recall was 200 baht, might be 300 baht now, and the rate goes on what rate visa is giving, well that was my experience.

[Bangkok Barry]

On 10/23/2021 at 2:16 AM, Sticky Rice Balls said:

I went to counter and said I wanted 30k+ take out with my atm card(usa)..she says use atm..I said I need more than atm allows to withdrawal..

I smile again,and say its for my thai gf, buying her a scoopy mbike(not).........works every time...give it a shot--nothing to lose!

What a surprise. One rule for you (no) but when it's to benefit a Thai the answer is yes.

[rickudon]

I use Krungsri once a month when  in Thailand to do an over the counter cash withdrawal using my Halifax clarity credit card (no fee card). They have never charged a fee (some other banks do, maybe some Krungsri branches do). And like Pib's table above, always got the best rate available.

As for the poster saying use SWIFT - you get sending bank fees, receiving bank fees and a worse exchange rate. Haven't used for over 5 years.

[gargamon]

This is the only way I'll transfer money into Thailand.

 

I will add a few details that don't seem to be here yet.

 

The amount you can withdraw at one time is the daily counter withdrawal limit, as mentioned above. If you need a lot of money this way, you can call your bank and have this number adjusted to a higher number, either temporarily or permanantly. Say you need 800k baht for some reason, do this and do it in one transaction.

 

I have a Capital One (Mastercard) ATM, and a Chime (Visa) ATM. Neither have a foreign transaction fee. When I received the Chime, I decided to see which was better to transfer money. I did a counter withdrawal of 10k baht from each card at the same time. The Chime (Visa) rate was 1% worse than the Capital One (Mastercard) rate. So while neither bank had a foreign fee, the conversion fee by the credit card company is worse for Visa than Mastercard. The Mastercard rate I get is generally a bit higher than the current xe.com rate.

[LarrySR]

15 hours ago, gim12 said:

i keep my funds in a USA bank that waives all atm fees for both foreign and domestic (usa) withdrawls,  in USA there is both Schwab Investments  and First Republic bank, they  reimburse the disbursing bank fees  and waive their own fees also, wells fargo bank will waive their fees but not the disbursing bank charges, various banks in other  countries offer fee reimbursement for  atm fees, both the UK and Australia have banks that refund also, it has worked for me for years with no problem

 

If you reside full time in Thailand, you may hear from Schwab, asking for proof of US residency.  US government regulations is my understanding.

Hadn't been in the USA for 20 years and use my sisters mailing address.

 

Used my Schawb ATM for years in Thailand but eventually got notified to confirm I was indeed a USA resident or they will the close my account. 

I ignored the warnings they sent every 6 months and they finally gave me a deadline or the account would be closed and suggest I open an account in their offshore center. Think it is in Hong Kong?

I phoned them and lied... promised I only holiday part time and that seemed good enough for them. I got the feeling they didn't really want to close my account but needed to check off the appropriate box on some government paperwork they are required to file...

 

Immediately stopped using the Schwab ATM card and Swift my funds in once a year now.

 

 

[misterphil]

On 10/22/2021 at 3:08 PM, The Hammer2021 said:

I would definitely get a bank account here. And use swift. It really makes life easier using a local bank cash card

Swift way too expensive. Best to use Wise for transfers and contactless payments. Also Starling bank is free for contactless payments. 

[misterphil]

On 10/22/2021 at 3:15 PM, soi3eddie said:

I send from my UK account to Wise (2 seconds). Then Wise to my Thai account (a few more seconds and very good exchange rate). Take out cash at Thai Atm or in branch with minimal costs. Job done.

 

This is what I do. Its the best way. ????

[Pib]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Krungsri Bank, over the counter withdrawal of up to 150k baht, fee if I recall was 200 baht, might be 300 baht now, and the rate goes on what rate visa is giving, well that was my experience.

Expect you had a "Visa" card where a Bt200 counter fee applies.  No counter withdrawal fee for a Mastercard or other card.  My card is a Mastercard...I don't get charged a fee for the counter withdrawals I do every 2 or 3 months.

 

https://www.krungsri.com/Krungsri2020/media/Banking-Rate/service-fees/en/electronics-banking-service-fees-07102021-en.pdf

 

[treetops]

23 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

People must really live back in time if having these hurdles or struggles. So simple; open local account and no ATM costs or 20B in other provinces, if visiting other provinces frequently; open a local account there too and connect it to the apps.

Perhaps you're living a bit back in time too.  My BBL account gives me free ATM withdrawals in other provinces.

[yogi yogi]

13 hours ago, gim12 said:

i keep my funds in a USA bank that waives all atm fees for both foreign and domestic (usa) withdrawls,  in USA there is both Schwab Investments  and First Republic bank, they  reimburse the disbursing bank fees  and waive their own fees also, wells fargo bank will waive their fees but not the disbursing bank charges, various banks in other  countries offer fee reimbursement for  atm fees, both the UK and Australia have banks that refund also, it has worked for me for years with no problem

i have a wells debit card.  u are saying wells will waive the fees if i have a debit card?  wells adds a 3% fee on thier debit card.  they will waive it?