9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Have a lot of history involving depression, including my own family (ex-girlfriend has it, and our daughter has it, her both parents had it, one hung himself, and also the grandmother),my cousin, on medication after suffering for years and doing well. My best friend killed himself way back when there were few meds available (1987), and had everything going well in his life. My now ex wife has it and it is a main reason we are divorced. My girlfriend here has had it for years, and after I lead her to seeing a doctor, and bolstered her low self esteem, is taking Lorazapam and Prozac, and doing much better. Her doctor told her he wanted to get her off the meds, and that isn't a good idea, as you might really need them .One potential biological cause of depression is an imbalance in the neurotransmitters which are involved in mood regulation.  Certain neurotransmitters, including dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine, play an important role in mood. Meaning meds can work, along with therapy, exercise, good diet, and a good environment. My girlfriend has been controlled by family for years, and this of course leads to bad feelings about oneself. Exercise, good diet and environment can help a lot, but a chemical imbalance cannot be changed naturally. The wrong meds can hurt more, and it sometimes takes quite awhile to find the right one or combination. Some get environmental depression that passes, and life changes can cause temporary depression also. Everyone gets depressed, but some get it to the extreme. Back when my friend took his life, he had a great wife, pets, house,job, played drums, was a class clown (symptom sometimes,like Robin Williams), and had many friends. He was losing his hair, and some, including his wife, thought that was the reason he went into his van, put the exhaust with a pipe into it, closed the doors and fell asleep. Back then, before I experienced the problems with my little girls mom, read three books and many articles, and tried to help her, I didn't understand why my friend died. I remembered when we were hanging out, he liked to sleep a lot during the day (major symptom), always was joking around, (to deflect pain), and self medicated. If I had known then what I do now, along with everyone else, he might still be with us. I would definitely see a competent doctor, and try what they suggest, along with doing things naturally by yourself.

 

Quote

but a chemical imbalance cannot be changed naturally

 

I don't agree with this; but I won't argue. 

People live unnatural lives. They are told that this is what is expected of you and this is the way life is supposed to be.

But that often doesn't tally with the way they actually feel.

Some of us figure it out and learn to live in harmony with nature. Others see no way out.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, thecyclist said:

Have you tried a micro dose of Trazodone for sleep? 

After I was started on mirtazapine for sleep, trazodone 50mg was added in 2003. Both became ineffective in April 2018. I'm weaning mirtazapine & will do so with trazodone, too. Weaning alprazolam, on the other hand, is maybe the most important due to cognitive decline. (Heather Ashton wrote the manual on how to do it safely. Not I did not say easily. She drily comments, like cigarettes, you may have to quit multiple times before you're really stopped. Yikes.)

 

When they worked, mirtazapine & trazodone were safe & effective. Few side effects compared to SSRIs & SNRIs.

I've been following this thread for a while, and thought I'd finally make some comment.

In my mis-spent youth I worked for 6 months as a Rogerian (Carl Rogers) client-centred counsellor. Its core method is a structured framework for the "client" to analyse and identify what the root cause of a problem might be, and then to develop a plan to address it. If I remember from your earlier posts you identified the problem as possibly being a chemical imbalance rather than a psychological or lifestyle or life issue, and that you'd rather not use pharms as such.

Have you tried kratom? It was recently re-legalised in Thailand and easier to find than CBD (the non-psychotropic strain of cannabis). I was recently given some kratom leaves by a local farmer, and I've tried it as a tea. It's effective within 10-20 minutes and produces a subtle mood rebalancing and increased alertness. It is recommended for anxiety among other things, and can be purchased online (including Lazada I think) in powdered/capsule form.

best wishes

On 11/2/2021 at 11:56 AM, giddyup said:

I didn't take your post as trying to discourage me, but I just want to try an alternative first. I've always been a lazy sod and other than a bit of walking avoided exercise like the plague. It's pretty hard to start lifestyle changes at 79, but I'll give it a try with more walking, more sun, and the meditation.

mate I'm a lazy sod too even though when I exercise it makes me feel much better. walking and running a little bit works for me but I get the wonky knees thing, mine aren't in the best shape either.

 

they say that strength/resistance training is as important as cardio so maybe get a couple of light-ish free weights and do some bicep curls or something. I bought a set of free weights and a bar and had good results until of course my laziness took over. and yerr I know, who are "they"? ????

 

another thing that I'm interested in getting into if I can find it in Thailand when I come over soon is Tai Chi. my understanding is that it's a subset of Chinese martial arts but with the focus on mindfulness instead of learning how to kick the sheet out of people ????

An inflammatory post has been removed

18 hours ago, blackprince said:

I've been following this thread for a while, and thought I'd finally make some comment.

In my mis-spent youth I worked for 6 months as a Rogerian (Carl Rogers) client-centred counsellor. Its core method is a structured framework for the "client" to analyse and identify what the root cause of a problem might be, and then to develop a plan to address it. If I remember from your earlier posts you identified the problem as possibly being a chemical imbalance rather than a psychological or lifestyle or life issue, and that you'd rather not use pharms as such.

Have you tried kratom? It was recently re-legalised in Thailand and easier to find than CBD (the non-psychotropic strain of cannabis). I was recently given some kratom leaves by a local farmer, and I've tried it as a tea. It's effective within 10-20 minutes and produces a subtle mood rebalancing and increased alertness. It is recommended for anxiety among other things, and can be purchased online (including Lazada I think) in powdered/capsule form.

best wishes

I'll try to get the missus' rellie to buy some leaves from a market in Bangkok. I don't always trust the quality of some products from Lazada.

21 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

After I was started on mirtazapine for sleep, trazodone 50mg was added in 2003. Both became ineffective in April 2018. I'm weaning mirtazapine & will do so with trazodone, too. Weaning alprazolam, on the other hand, is maybe the most important due to cognitive decline. (Heather Ashton wrote the manual on how to do it safely. Not I did not say easily. She drily comments, like cigarettes, you may have to quit multiple times before you're really stopped. Yikes.)

 

When they worked, mirtazapine & trazodone were safe & effective. Few side effects compared to SSRIs & SNRIs.

Let me get that straight , Mirtazapine and Trazodone worked for you for 15 years,from 2003 to 2018, and then suddenly in April 2018 stopped having an effect? 

Alprazolam should not be taking as a sleeping tablet, it's an anxiolytic. Zolpidem or Zoplicone are bona-fide sleeping tablets:They are much less addictive, tolerance to them builds up only after prolonged use. Withdrawal symptoms are usually just recurring insomnia. 

On 11/3/2021 at 5:20 PM, thecyclist said:

 

Alprazolam should not be taking as a sleeping tablet, it's an anxiolytic. Zolpidem or Zoplicone are bona-fide sleeping tablets:They are much less addictive, tolerance to them builds up only after prolonged use. Withdrawal symptoms are usually just recurring insomnia. 

Zoplicone has never been available in Thailand and Zolpidem is now off-market (though some places still have left over stock).

 

Hospitals in Thailand often prescribe benzos for lack of much alternative.  And, since much insomnia is anxiety-related, they work well enough to start with. However, if taken regulalry they stop working due to tolerance and the person also gets addicted. Happened to quite a few TV members.

On 11/3/2021 at 6:17 PM, Sheryl said:

Zoplicone has never been available in Thailand and Zolpidem is now off-market (though some places still have left over stock).

 

Hospitals in Thailand often prescribe benzos for lack of much alternative.  And, since much insomnia is anxiety-related, they work well enough to start with. However, taken they stop working due to tolerance and the person also gets addicted. Happened to quite a few TV members.

That is interesting. I left Thailand for Vietnam 4 years ago, so not really up to speed. Zolpidem used to be the sleeping aide of choice in Thailand (and many other countries) Why was it taken off the market? In Vietnam Zoplicone is the only sedative that is available OTC, maybe because they have a cheap locally produced generic version here. 

15 hours ago, thecyclist said:

That is interesting. I left Thailand for Vietnam 4 years ago, so not really up to speed. Zolpidem used to be the sleeping aide of choice in Thailand (and many other countries) Why was it taken off the market?

 

Not sure, but probably a manufacturer decision (usually is).  There is a cost entailed in keeping a product registered for sale in Thailand and if sales volume is low, manufacturer may opt to discontinue.

On 10/31/2021 at 5:21 PM, giddyup said:

Already taking a heap of vitamins now, like magnesium, fish oil, vitamin B, NAC etc.

I have tried a wide range of different supplements during my life, and none made any difference that I could see.

I take something called OPC for hay fever, and it works well for that, but the guy that sells it is always trying to make me use 3 or4 a day for something or other. Given they cost a $ per capsule, I'm not falling for that one

The only things that actually work on me for things like depression, anxiety, hypertension, pain, gout etc are products of big pharma.

To those people that recommended the Wim Hof breathing technique, many thanks. Have been doing it several times a day for the last 3 days and the depression has lifted somewhat, not totally disappeared, but it's early days. Have also been soaking up some early morning sun for 30 minutes a day as well, and maybe that's helping as well. Antidepressant meds will be a last resort.

52 minutes ago, giddyup said:

To those people that recommended the Wim Hof breathing technique, many thanks. Have been doing it several times a day for the last 3 days and the depression has lifted somewhat, not totally disappeared, but it's early days. Have also been soaking up some early morning sun for 30 minutes a day as well, and maybe that's helping as well. Antidepressant meds will be a last resort.

One day at a time, and embrace the new feelings

 

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

To those people that recommended the Wim Hof breathing technique, many thanks. Have been doing it several times a day for the last 3 days and the depression has lifted somewhat, not totally disappeared, but it's early days. Have also been soaking up some early morning sun for 30 minutes a day as well, and maybe that's helping as well. Antidepressant meds will be a last resort.

 

Vit D deficiency can cause (or worsen) depression. So can B12 deficiency. Both are common in older people and neither are checked during routine physical check ups here unless specifically requested.

 

Thyroid problem can cause both depression and anxiety/panic attacks. Likewise not a part of standad check up packages in Thailand.

 

As previously mentioned, strong suggest getting Vit D, B12 levels and thyroid panel checked. Can be done at a lab such as   http://lifecare.siam2web.com/?

Simple blood draw, no need to fast before hand.

 

While such issues might nto be the whole story for you, they could well be playing a part. If so, treating them could well get things to a more manageable level.

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Vit D deficiency can cause (or worsen) depression.

 

Deficiency from being indoors all day, when deficient, may be part of that depression.  I don't how anyone can be vit D deficient, if not eating a whole lot of something that interferes with D's digestion.

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Deficiency from being indoors all day, when deficient, may be part of that depression.  I don't how anyone can be vit D deficient, if not eating a whole lot of something that interferes with D's digestion.

It's very common, especially in northern climes where sunlight is affected by seasons. If you don't eat enough D from diet, from oily fish, meat, eggs and the like, or if you're a vegan,  you need sunlight to hit your skin to produce it. Depression, besides environmental and episodic, is usually caused by low serotonin levels sometimes caused by a smaller hippocampus in the brain. Family history has a lot to do with it also. Antidepressants can improve receptor connections and help with stressors that hurt a depressed individual. Sometimes gastro problems can prevent D absorption from foods, which is why sunlight can help.

On 11/3/2021 at 5:20 PM, thecyclist said:

Let me get that straight , Mirtazapine and Trazodone worked for you for 15 years,from 2003 to 2018, and then suddenly in April 2018 stopped having an effect?

Yep, just gone. Intermittent for a few months but then no effect. Been very sleepless ever since. I was so, so stupid to get hooked on alprazolam & that stopped working, too.

On 11/5/2021 at 6:54 PM, fredwiggy said:

It's very common, especially in northern climes where sunlight is affected by seasons. If you don't eat enough D from diet, from oily fish, meat, eggs and the like, or if you're a vegan,  you need sunlight to hit your skin to produce it. Depression, besides environmental and episodic, is usually caused by low serotonin levels sometimes caused by a smaller hippocampus in the brain. Family history has a lot to do with it also. Antidepressants can improve receptor connections and help with stressors that hurt a depressed individual. Sometimes gastro problems can prevent D absorption from foods, which is why sunlight can help.

Indeed Vit D deficiency is very, very common in Thailand.

 

Actually can be more common in tropical countries than temperate ones as, due to the extreme strength of the sun, people avoid being in direct sunlight.

 

in addition elderly people everywhere are prone to Vit D deficiency  even if getting plenty of sun. The ability to synthesize Vit D from sunlight on the skin  decreases with age.