Insurance for O-A visa

[KhunBENQ]

16 hours ago, stat said:

AFAIK German embassy still writes these letters.

Yes they do.

In Pattaya the German consul (Hofer) also does.

For pension it's quite simple showing respecting documents.

 

From German embassy in German language:

https://bangkok.diplo.de/th-de/service/rentenbescheinigung/1380332

 

Service is very poor. No postal mail possible.

Appear in person with appointment only.

Lazy pack.

If close to Pattaya visit the consul.

Don't know about Phuket and Chiang Mai consulates.

Edited November 24, 2021 by KhunBENQ

[stat]

16 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

While it was true that the advantage of an OA over an O visa meant that you could get 2 years from it ( great if you renewed in your home country every 2 years ) and didn’t have to keep the financial requirements in a Thai bank. That has now been downgraded with the introduction of the initial 40/400k mandatory health insurance which has now been increased to 3M baht coverage meaning the OA visa has lost its edge and many on retirement extensions from an initial OA visa are now taking steps to change to an O visa.

I think I am not alone in stating a 400K max health insurance is not a health insurance in severe cases at all. However it can be an obstacle if you dont care at all for a health insurance per se. In my case (and several other) health care is not limited, so 3M is no difference for us then 400K. In addition AFAIK Non- O also demands 3M health insurance as stated here for example.

 

https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/non-o/

[stat]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

However, as explained, under current rules you will not be able to do an in-country extension using this. Would have to get a new O-A visa in your home country every 2 years. (or every year if you did nto manage to leave and re-enter just before visa expiration).

It is my long term plan to go with OA every 2 years if I stay that long. However I am not sure if it is legally correct or possible because AFAIK you need to be resident in the country where you apply for OA and I won't be resident of Germany then and will not reregister in Germany just for the visa as this has severe tax implications.  Current address is in the german passport, but not sure if I will change it, as it is a lot of hassle.

 

Anyone any experiences with back to back OAs? I do have 2 legal german passports.

[Andrew Dwyer]

28 minutes ago, stat said:

I think I am not alone in stating a 400K max health insurance is not a health insurance in severe cases at all. However it can be an obstacle if you dont care at all for a health insurance per se. In my case (and several other) health care is not limited, so 3M is no difference for us then 400K. In addition AFAIK Non- O also demands 3M health insurance as stated here for example.

 

https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/non-o/

The Thai consulate in LA seems to have their own rules, not only is it asking for 3M baht insurance for an O visa it is also quoting 1,200,000 baht financial requirement for the OA visa !!

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, stat said:

In addition AFAIK Non- O also demands 3M health insurance as stated here for example.

I am sure that is an error. On the embassy in Washington DC it is still  has the 40/400 k baht insurance.

See: https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/

For the non-o visa application only 90 days of insurance is required.

 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, stat said:

It is my long term plan to go with OA every 2 years if I stay that long. However I am not sure if it is legally correct or possible because AFAIK you need to be resident in the country where you apply for OA and I won't be resident of Germany then and will not reregister in Germany just for the visa as this has severe tax implications.  Current address is in the german passport, but not sure if I will change it, as it is a lot of hassle.

 

Anyone any experiences with back to back OAs? I do have 2 legal german passports.

You don't have to be domicilled (i.e. live) there, you just need to be a resident (i.e a Citizen or somebody who has permanent residency rights). 

 

Obviously as you have a German Passport, you have Permanent Residency rights so you can pop back just for how long the process takes & get a new Visa. 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Mike Teavee

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, stat said:

It is my long term plan to go with OA every 2 years if I stay that long. However I am not sure if it is legally correct or possible because AFAIK you need to be resident in the country where you apply for OA and I won't be resident of Germany then and will not reregister in Germany just for the visa as this has severe tax implications.  Current address is in the german passport, but not sure if I will change it, as it is a lot of hassle.

 

Anyone any experiences with back to back OAs? I do have 2 legal german passports.

 

No problem to get back to back OA visas as long as you are willing and able to travel back to Germany for it. (Cross your fingers no new pandemic shuts down international travel!)

[Tuvoc]

Surely the new 3M insurance is better than the old 400k/40k ?  It was the 40k outpatient cover that was both totally useless and very expensive at the same time.  I'd have thought that most OA users would have some sort of annual policy anyway which would be at least 3M.

[KenFLA]

Just applied for insurance with Pacific Cross.  At 65 extensive physical was required and at substantial cost.  A portion rebated down the line.  Cost included Certificate of Insurance, covid coverage, with 5 million coverage at 65,525 B with 25% discount for 40,000 B deductible.  A 3,000,000 B life policy is included in that price. Obviously not cheap to go the O-A method. I can certainly see why many choose entering on a tourist visa and converting in Thailand. Fortunately, the e-visa is straightforward and no need to spend $3000 US on Bangkok attorneys. 

[CANSIAM]

On 11/23/2021 at 2:42 PM, stat said:

I respectfully disagree. Renewal of O gets you 1 Year in Thailand, whereas NON OA gets you close to 2 years with one re-entry if you dont plan to leave the country in the 2nd year. So in my opinion the OA gets you a 2 year visa which is the longer and therefore "better" visa if you leave the higher requirements out.

The multiple entry OA gets you a 1 year stay on entry. You would need to leave Thailand approximately 1 month or 2 weeks BEFORE the OA visa ( sticker in your passport ) expiry date and re enter before the visa expiry date to get another 1 year entry on the still valid visa ( also needing 12 months of health insurance for the second 1 year entry ). This is how you get 2 years from an OA without doing an extension of stay until after the 2nd year.... border jumps have been impossible for 2.5 years now with covid restrictions.........

[CANSIAM]

54 minutes ago, KenFLA said:

Just applied for insurance with Pacific Cross.  At 65 extensive physical was required and at substantial cost.  A portion rebated down the line.  Cost included Certificate of Insurance, covid coverage, with 5 million coverage at 65,525 B with 25% discount for 40,000 B deductible.  A 3,000,000 B life policy is included in that price. Obviously not cheap to go the O-A method. I can certainly see why many choose entering on a tourist visa and converting in Thailand. Fortunately, the e-visa is straightforward and no need to spend $3000 US on Bangkok attorneys. 

I've got the PCHI Maxima Plan with a 20,000 baht deductible, correct not cheap. It will get me my first and last OA extension soon anyhow........

[Tuvoc]

But how do those costs compare to the old 400k/40k requirement for one year ?

 

Those Pacific Cross prices are about the same as my Cigna policy which is surprising since I have a £2,000 (about 90,000 baht) deductible. They must have reduced their prices at some point.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Tuvoc

[stat]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

No problem to get back to back OA visas as long as you are willing and able to travel back to Germany for it. (Cross your fingers no new pandemic shuts down international travel!)

AFAIK you need to be residenced in Germany. This aspect is maybe lost on my US and UK friends here as thanksgod they don't have a prussian german system of having to register oneself with the state authorities once you live again in Germany (take residence). This is a formal process and even if you register for 1 sec you are tax liable for the whole year and are expected to deliver a full blown tax statement for the whole year (takes several days to adminster, paying loads of EURs and mind you Germany has the highest taxes in the world of all OECD countries). It is stated you must be resident in Germany in order to apply for the NON OA in Germany. In real life I dont see how they can or will control this, especially with the E-Visa system where I could apply for a new OA while stil in Thailand, even without a second passport. But maybe the embassy has access to the immi database and understands I am still in Thailand. The bigger risk I see is when coming back to Thailand and the immi official is aware I was in Thailand when the 2nd OA Visa was issued. Some years ago I managed to do this with 2 passports and back to back Tourist visas. But it was a different time then and I dont think they had a database then to check this.

Edited November 25, 2021 by stat

[stat]

10 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

The multiple entry OA gets you a 1 year stay on entry. You would need to leave Thailand approximately 1 month or 2 weeks BEFORE the OA visa ( sticker in your passport ) expiry date and re enter before the visa expiry date to get another 1 year entry on the still valid visa ( also needing 12 months of health insurance for the second 1 year entry ). This is how you get 2 years from an OA without doing an extension of stay until after the 2nd year.... border jumps have been impossible for 2.5 years now with covid restrictions.........

You are correct. The OA only gets 2 years if you are able to do a border run or get covid extension. So if border are closed at the end of 2022 you only get 1 year + covid externsions, thanks for pointing this out. But this is only one special case, that borders get reopend year end 2022 and your extension runs out at that time.

[oldcpu]

On 11/23/2021 at 2:28 PM, stat said:

a. German health insurances generally have no EUR limit (why anyone has  a limited insurance still baffles me, because I can easily pay 20000€ but not 2 Million€. So when I need the insurance I reached the limit).

Is your German Health Insurance on the Thai approved list of Insurance companies? 

 

If its not on that list, it might help getting the OA-Visa, but later,  it won't be accepted when it comes time for your 1st extension on your permission to stay on a Type-OA

 

On 11/23/2021 at 2:28 PM, stat said:

 

b. The signature no problem for my insurance company Hanse Merkur or the Emirates insurance AIG

Many Insurance companies (European) will not provide the signature ... and even if they do, that my understanding is paper is only good for the initial OA visa application. 

 

After that you will need an Insurance company on the limited Thai approved list of health insurance companies.

 

If it is not on that list, and IMHO there is a good chance it is not on the list as the list is limited, then the signed paper will no longer help you, nor will your excellent health insurance.  You could be forced into getting double health insurance if you choose to stay on a Type-OA and try to go for 'retirement' extensions on your permission to stay.

 

[stat]

4 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Is your German Health Insurance on the Thai approved list of Insurance companies? 

 

If its not on that list, it might help getting the OA-Visa, but later,  it won't be accepted when it comes time for your 1st extension on your permission to stay on a Type-OA

 

Many Insurance companies (European) will not provide the signature ... and even if they do, that my understanding is paper is only good for the initial OA visa application. 

 

After that you will need an Insurance company on the limited Thai approved list of health insurance companies.

 

If it is not on that list, and IMHO there is a good chance it is not on the list as the list is limited, then the signed paper will no longer help you, nor will your excellent health insurance.  You could be forced into getting double health insurance if you choose to stay on a Type-OA and try to go for 'retirement' extensions on your permission to stay.

 

Thanks for your post! I did a reverse search which companies provide the needed signed paper and came up with a list of at least 3 in Germany. As mentioned before I will continue with OA Visas if possible. If need arises for an extension and insurance not accepted I will cancel my policy and have to go for a thai insurance, agreed. That will be end of 2023 who knows what rules they will come up until then. Hanse Merkur is the biggest and best rated insurer I came across in my search for Germans. Thanks for putting this scenario on my radar! I will either go with Hanse or the Emirates insurance.

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

 

If it is not on that list, and IMHO there is a good chance it is not on the list as the list is limited, then the signed paper will no longer help you, nor will your excellent health insurance.  You could be forced into getting double health insurance if you choose to stay on a Type-OA and try to go for 'retirement' extensions on your permission to stay.

 

Definitely not on the list but he is plaaning on getting new visa every 2 years

[oldcpu]

11 hours ago, stat said:

 If need arises for an extension and insurance not accepted I will cancel my policy and have to go for a thai insurance, agreed. That will be end of 2023 who knows what rules they will come up until then. Hanse Merkur is the biggest and best rated insurer I came across in my search for Germans. Thanks for putting this scenario on my radar! I will either go with Hanse or the Emirates insurance.

Noted ...

 

One caution about changing insurance ... in general, especially when one starts to get older ... when one changes an insurance company, the rates in general tend to be more expensive.  Typically, it is better to try and stay with the same insurance company, and avoid changing companies.

 

In my case, my health insurance (which is very good with unlimited coverage) comes as a heavily subsidized part of my pension package from Europe ... and unfortunately its not on the limited Thai list of insurance companies. 

 

Ergo it was pretty much necessary for me to purchase a second policy for Thailand (in essence double insuring myself) to get a one year extension on my Type-OA permission to stay.   I am age-67, and the 40k/400k insurance (note double insurance as I already have insurance) was not too expensive when going for a high deductible on this 2nd health insurance. 

 

However if Thailand increases the Thai health insurance requirement for a Type-OA to 3-million baht insurance, then my getting double insurance (unlimited insurance for my the insurance that comes with my pension) and also 3-million to meet the limited Thai list) makes no financial sense for me.    I definitely will not leave my excellent subsidized insurance for one that costs a lot more and is not as good in coverage.  ... Also changing insurance companies when one is older can be an expensive proposition.

 

Hence I plan to move away from the Type-OA visa to a visa where I am not pushed into a double insurance situation.

[stat]

7 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Noted ...

 

One caution about changing insurance ... in general, especially when one starts to get older ... when one changes an insurance company, the rates in general tend to be more expensive.  Typically, it is better to try and stay with the same insurance company, and avoid changing companies.

 

In my case, my health insurance (which is very good with unlimited coverage) comes as a heavily subsidized part of my pension package from Europe ... and unfortunately its not on the limited Thai list of insurance companies. 

 

Ergo it was pretty much necessary for me to purchase a second policy for Thailand (in essence double insuring myself) to get a one year extension on my Type-OA permission to stay.   I am age-67, and the 40k/400k insurance (note double insurance as I already have insurance) was not too expensive when going for a high deductible on this 2nd health insurance. 

 

However if Thailand increases the Thai health insurance requirement for a Type-OA to 3-million baht insurance, then my getting double insurance (unlimited insurance for my the insurance that comes with my pension) and also 3-million to meet the limited Thai list) makes no financial sense for me.    I definitely will not leave my excellent subsidized insurance for one that costs a lot more and is not as good in coverage.  ... Also changing insurance companies when one is older can be an expensive proposition.

 

Hence I plan to move away from the Type-OA visa to a visa where I am not pushed into a double insurance situation.

Thanks for your post! I agree it would be advisable to select right from the start a company that is on the list to avoid problems later on. As far as I know and you mentionend it also the companies on the list tend to provide limited insurance for a high price. So in that regard it is correct that the 3 M. requirement is a big drawback as it tends to increase the price a lot.

 

I would prefer a health insurance that kicks in at 3.000.000 Baht and not vice versa, but I am dreaming now ????

 

 

Is this the list we are talking about? I have a contract with Axa in Europe as well. So in the long run I could use this contract if I run out of options.

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/companiesoa

[oldcpu]

On 11/26/2021 at 8:16 PM, stat said:

Is this the list we are talking about? I have a contract with Axa in Europe as well. So in the long run I could use this contract if I run out of options.

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/companiesoa

That is the list - and I actually have insurance on that list from Cigna on that list, but only from their European division (I have the expensive Global - the top insurance) - but when I tried >  ~1 year ago they refuse to fill in the Thai database and refused to fill in the Thai paperwork.    Apparently there is a difference between the Thai Cigna and the European Cigna.

 

For my own edification, I may contact the Thai Cigna again (over a year later) and see if policy has changed and see if they will fill in the Thai government database based on my having the excellent European based Cigna global coverage.  Based on my experience with Cigna I seriously doubt that they will.

 

so be careful with that list. Just because you have insurance with a company on that list, does not mean that the 'corporate division' in which you deal with, will support the Thai requirements.

Edited December 9, 2021 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

That is the list - and I actually have insurance on that list from Cigna on that list, but only from their European division (I have the expensive Global - the top insurance) - but when I tried >  ~1 year ago they refuse to fill in the Thai database and refused to fill in the Thai paperwork.    Apparently there is a difference between the Thai Cigna and the European Cigna.

 

For my own edification, I may contact the Thai Cigna again (over a year later) and see if policy has changed and see if they will fill in the Thai government database based on my having the excellent European based Cigna global coverage.  Based on my experience with Cigna I seriously doubt that they will.

 

so be careful with that list. Just because you have insurance with a company on that list, does not mean that the 'corporate division' in which you deal with, will support the Thai requirements.

My wife and I contacted Cigna Thailand today, to inquire if they would provide the certification of Health Insurance coverage for a Thai Type-OA Long stay visa if one already had the prerequisite global insurance from Europe.   In short: NO.

 

Long story: At first, they were not even aware Thailand Cigna was offering Type-OA Long Stay insurance, so we had to point to them their web site. After seeing the website, and seeing they were advertising such insurance, the Cigna insurance person advised they had to talk to their boss.  Their boss advised Cigna Thailand was different from Cigna Europe, and they would not certify for Thai government that a Cigna Europe global insurance plan would meet the Thai requirements.

 

Further (in addition) from previous contacts, I know that Cigna Europe refuses to fill in a Thai form and refuses to enter information into a Thai immigration database.

 

So there we have it - in the case of Cigna - having excellent European Cigna insurance will NOT provide proof for a Type-OA visa.

 

My speculation is that this is true for other Health Insurance companies as well.  One must buy the Insurance from the Thai division and NOT try to use existing excellent supposed global health insurance from the same company, but from a different non-Thai Insurance division.

.

Edited December 9, 2021 by oldcpu

[Kilick]

I just got a quote back from Pacific cross for over 90,000 baht for the maxima policy they offer. I am 63 years old with controlled hypertension. That's the full price with no deductible. I was requesting a quote on their premier plus plan but I guess business is slow and they decided to upsale. Anyone have experience with the other companies on the approved list. 

 Is it a better plan to come on a 90 day tourist visa and convert to an O visa. What are the requirements to even do that

[ubonjoe]

30 minutes ago, Kilick said:

 Is it a better plan to come on a 90 day tourist visa and convert to an O visa. What are the requirements to even do that

It is a better plan since no insurance would be needed for the non-o visa application or the one year exension of stay based upon retirement.

Requirement for the change from a tourist visa entry is here. https://bangkok.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/8-1.pdf

You will need 800k baht in a Thai Bank on the day you apply or proof of 65k baht income with a document from your embassy.

Then during the last 30 days of the 90 stay from the visa you could apply for the one year extension. The 800k would need to be in the bank for 2 months on the day you apply or proof of 65k baht income.

[Kilick]

14 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is a better plan since no insurance would be needed for the non-o visa application or the one year exension of stay based upon retirement.

Requirement for the change from a tourist visa entry is here. https://bangkok.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/8-1.pdf

You will need 800k baht in a Thai Bank on the day you apply or proof of 65k baht income with a document from your embassy.

Then during the last 30 days of the 90 stay from the visa you could apply for the one year extension. The 800k would need to be in the bank for 2 months on the day you apply or proof of 65k baht income.

I am lucky that the Canadian embassy will issue the income certificate. That seems like a good route to go

[oldcpu]

19 hours ago, gajah said:

My problem also, I have both Cigna Insurance from Europe, and Thailand LMG insurance for my OA visa. Up to now, they complement each other, so no problem. But when the required coverage goes up, then it is no longer complementary, and becomes a problem. Has anybody contacted Cigna Thailand, to see if the policy can be switched from Europe to Thailand?

I am curious, but I have no plan to make such a contact to Cigna myself to ask about transferring Insurance.

 

My Cigna Insurance from Europe, is tied into my retirement pension from a European government organisation. I pay about 50% of the monthly fee, and the European organisation pays the remaining 50%.   Also my insurance plan is a custom negotiated plan (coverage exceeds the Thai plans) which was possible as there are 600 (more ? ) people in the organization I belonged to, so a very good insurance rate was negotiated for all 600 people (including retirees).

 

If I were to switch to the policy to Thailand Cigna, the organisation would stop subsidizing the Cigna monthly insurance payment (and I would lose the ~50% of the monthly fee paid by the European organisation) and the Thai policy would not be as good for the same price.

 

I am now seriously considering the Type-O Visa route, with a tentative plan to:

(1) leave Thailand 1 week before my Permission to stay on a Type-OA visa expires.

(2) return to Thailand a month later on a tourist Visa exempt status. Likely I will buy 3rd party COVID insurance for about 3,500 Thai baht (to cover me for 30-days). And I will likely buy a throw away 'one-way' ticket (to Cambodia or Singapore for about 3,000 Thai baht) so to be able to board my flight back to Thailand

(3) as soon as I arrive back in Thailand apply for a 90-day Type-O visa. I have the money in the bank (deposited from outside of Thailand), but its been there for years so I need to confirm Phuket immigration will accept it.

(4) 30-days prior (possibly 45-days prior given this is Phuket) to the permission to stay on this 90-day Type-0 visa expiring, apply for a 1-year extension based on retirement.

 

Traveling at present is annoying, with all the requirements for entering countries - but I had planned to travel in February (to Canada) anyway, so I will try to do this 'Visa change' at the same time.

 

It is a bit unsettling to let a perfectly good Visa (type-OA) permission to stay expire ... but given I don't want to pay for double Health Insurance, it appears to be the logical choice.

Edited December 10, 2021 by oldcpu

[JimGant]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:29 PM, oldcpu said:

It is a bit unsettling to let a perfectly good Visa (type-OA) permission to stay expire ... but given I don't want to pay for double Health Insurance, it appears to be the logical choice.

Indeed. But I'm in the same boat -- with my LMG insurance quadrupling to 69000 baht, were I to renew prior to next year's extension renewal. But I'm 100% insured by my retired US military insurance, with no minimums, and unlimited maximums. That Thailand won't accept it is a pure scam -- just wish the Air Force would withhold F-16 parts from the boneyard in Arizona, the RTAF's only source to maintain their aging F-16 fleet -- as a quid pro quo to honor insured American veterans living here. But, of course, I dream -- the Air Attache is probably too busy playing golf.

 

Anyway, should I cancel my LMG policy, then re- enter, get a Non Imm O, then extend off of that?  Sadly, that's probably when they'll require insurance for everyone here on one year extensions, regardless of visa of entry. But, of course, I'll now be too old to reapply for a LMG policy, or any policy on the TGIA list. Guess I'll just fork over 69,000 baht in premiums to LMG, with the satisfaction of knowing that's 69000 baht per year less that my worthless nieces and nephews will get when I croak. Sigh.