Pattaya to get huge new beachside development

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, newnative said:

Wrong, if we're talking about CF and T21.  They were very busy, pre-covid. 

 

We will have to disagree on this.  That was not my observations on many visits to those malls, pre covid.  

[Leaver]

On 12/26/2021 at 6:39 PM, JensenZ said:

Are we still going on with this after a week's break? I see a lot of people in Central. A suprising amount actually.

 

What people call "busy" and "a lot" are subjective, so your comment carries no weight at all.

 

 

 

You make an interesting point.

 

Pre covid, Walking Street was busy.  Thousands walking up and down every night, observing and taking photos, however, the bars, restaurants, gogo's and nightclubs on Walking Street were not busy. 

 

It's free to go to Walking Street, as it is a mall.   

 

I am specifically talking about customers purchasing items in the shops in the malls, not tourists soaking up some air conditioning and getting a photo with the displays in T21.  

 

When walking past the shops in the malls, how many tourists do you see in the, handing over money or a credit card?  How many tourists do you see walking around the mall carrying the brand name shopping bags after purchasing something?

 

For me, "busy" is not Thai's and expats going to Central to do their banking or sorting out a problem with their phone.  Likewise, "busy" is also not tourists window shopping, and passing some time whilst escaping the heat, whilst maybe sitting on a coffee for an hour. 

 

The food court can be busy, and certainly generates some pedestrian traffic through the mall, but the cheap eats on offer isn't flowing on to retail sales.  

 

If we got the total number of people through the door, and compared that to the total number of individual sales in every business in the mall, I think you would find a big disparity.  Eg.  only 1 in 20 people attending the mall actually bought something. 

 

"Busy" isn't worth much if the people don't actually buy anything.    

[JensenZ]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

You make an interesting point.

 

Pre covid, Walking Street was busy.  Thousands walking up and down every night, observing and taking photos, however, the bars, restaurants, gogo's and nightclubs on Walking Street were not busy. 

 

It's free to go to Walking Street, as it is a mall.   

 

I am specifically talking about customers purchasing items in the shops in the malls, not tourists soaking up some air conditioning and getting a photo with the displays in T21.  

 

When walking past the shops in the malls, how many tourists do you see in the, handing over money or a credit card?  How many tourists do you see walking around the mall carrying the brand name shopping bags after purchasing something?

 

For me, "busy" is not Thai's and expats going to Central to do their banking or sorting out a problem with their phone.  Likewise, "busy" is also not tourists window shopping, and passing some time whilst escaping the heat, whilst maybe sitting on a coffee for an hour. 

 

The food court can be busy, and certainly generates some pedestrian traffic through the mall, but the cheap eats on offer isn't flowing on to retail sales.  

 

If we got the total number of people through the door, and compared that to the total number of individual sales in every business in the mall, I think you would find a big disparity.  Eg.  only 1 in 20 people attending the mall actually bought something. 

 

"Busy" isn't worth much if the people don't actually buy anything.    

Of course this same argument has been brought up ad nauseum on this forum since Central Festival opened in January 2009. This was one of J-sixpack's favourite topics. "I don't see people buying stuff, so these (shops and malls) are going out of business" people would say, and he'd have some eloquent and funny replies LOL. I miss him - where are you?

 

My reply was a comment purely on how many people you will see, not how much they are buying. The economics of the individual stores is not my concern. I will say this. I have been in the Studio 7 store 4 times in the 6 weeks (since the lockdown ended), to buy Apple products, and I had to wait in a queue at checkout to pay. The store was very busy each time I visited. I don't live there, so perhaps it was just a coincidence that the 4 days I went there and at the time I went, it was busy. They definitely won't be going out of business any time soon. I also had to wait at the checkout in PowerBuy. 

 

The good news is we do not need to stress about how the stores are doing financially. We can just enjoy the mall for what it is, while it is.

[JensenZ]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:18 PM, treetops said:

Stop digging - you're making yourself look more lost with every post.  If you must respond, please read and understand what you're responding too.  You've made it obvious throughout this thread that you do not normally practice that, and carried on that trait to the end.

You're actually baiting, and only to back up a companion on here with the same opinions as you. Why don't you get lost, or at least reply to the topic instead of trolling?

[JensenZ]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:30 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

That's one mall. There are several in Pattaya, so how are ALL of them doing?

Why don't you visit them and give us an informed opinion. Would you like directions?

[newnative]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

Of course this same argument has been brought up ad nauseum on this forum since Central Festival opened in January 2009. This was one of J-sixpack's favourite topics. "I don't see people buying stuff, so these (shops and malls) are going out of business" people would say, and he'd have some eloquent and funny replies LOL. I miss him - where are you?

 

My reply was a comment purely on how many people you will see, not how much they are buying. The economics of the individual stores is not my concern. I will say this. I have been in the Studio 7 store 4 times in the 6 weeks (since the lockdown ended), to buy Apple products, and I had to wait in a queue at checkout to pay. The store was very busy each time I visited. I don't live there, so perhaps it was just a coincidence that the 4 days I went there and at the time I went, it was busy. They definitely won't be going out of business any time soon. I also had to wait at the checkout in PowerBuy. 

 

The good news is we do not need to stress about how the stores are doing financially. We can just enjoy the mall for what it is, while it is.

   I miss JSixpack, too!   If I remember, I think he used to post that Central Festival Pattaya was one of the more successful malls in Thailand.   I find the 'nobody's shopping' argument ludicrous.  As you state, the mall has been open since 2009.   If no shops were selling anything, there would be no shops left, even pre-covid.  Instead, some stores and restaurants decided to open second outlets at T21.  Why do that if nobody's buying at your first outlet just down the street?

[3NUMBAS]

sure tea money  needs a good home

[treetops]

23 hours ago, JensenZ said:

You're actually baiting, and only to back up a companion on here with the same opinions as you. Why don't you get lost, or at least reply to the topic instead of trolling?

I have no "companion" on here and like to read the different views.  Commenting on viewpoints is not trolling and that's all I did, obviously to your dislike.  Well get over it or not, up to you, but don't think for a minute that debating is your strong suit, which is what you said of somebody else's debating skills.

[kinyara]

On 12/28/2021 at 1:00 PM, Leaver said:

 

You make an interesting point.

 

Pre covid, Walking Street was busy.  Thousands walking up and down every night, observing and taking photos, however, the bars, restaurants, gogo's and nightclubs on Walking Street were not busy. 

 

It's free to go to Walking Street, as it is a mall.   

 

I am specifically talking about customers purchasing items in the shops in the malls, not tourists soaking up some air conditioning and getting a photo with the displays in T21.  

 

When walking past the shops in the malls, how many tourists do you see in the, handing over money or a credit card?  How many tourists do you see walking around the mall carrying the brand name shopping bags after purchasing something?

 

For me, "busy" is not Thai's and expats going to Central to do their banking or sorting out a problem with their phone.  Likewise, "busy" is also not tourists window shopping, and passing some time whilst escaping the heat, whilst maybe sitting on a coffee for an hour. 

 

The food court can be busy, and certainly generates some pedestrian traffic through the mall, but the cheap eats on offer isn't flowing on to retail sales.  

 

If we got the total number of people through the door, and compared that to the total number of individual sales in every business in the mall, I think you would find a big disparity.  Eg.  only 1 in 20 people attending the mall actually bought something. 

 

"Busy" isn't worth much if the people don't actually buy anything.    

How long do you spend in Central and Terminal 21 ? I'd say you're spreading yourself a bit thin to make any sort of credible assessment of spending patterns, covering 2 separate malls with a couple of hundred or more outlets operating 10 hours a day, 7 days a week. As an example you seem to always post at the weekend late afternoons Thai time, ( breakfast UK time ) , which unless you're doing it from the malls themselves is I would have thought likely to be peak weekly shopping periods. More especially with the visiting local weekend crowd Pattaya attracts.

 

The shops in Central and Terminal 21 are not Icon Siam, Paragon or Emporium high end designer outlets for the rich, they are predominantly mid priced retail chains targeting exactly the local and foreign tourist mass clientele that Pattaya predominantly attracts. There is a middle class local market with spending power that allow Central malls to operate successfully without tourist clientele in other provincial cities in Thailand, zero reason to think those customers don't exist or have different spending patterns in Pattaya. 

 

[3NUMBAS]

dirty money always needs a happy home to dwell despite zero returns for aeons

[JensenZ]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:40 PM, newnative said:

   I miss JSixpack, too!   If I remember, I think he used to post that Central Festival Pattaya was one of the more successful malls in Thailand.   I find the 'nobody's shopping' argument ludicrous.  As you state, the mall has been open since 2009.   If no shops were selling anything, there would be no shops left, even pre-covid.  Instead, some stores and restaurants decided to open second outlets at T21.  Why do that if nobody's buying at your first outlet just down the street?

I don't know if today and yesterday (28th and 29th December) would be accepted as evidence by the "no one buys anything in malls" crowd, but I spent about 7 hours at the mall over these 2 days, buying stuff, grocery shopping, dining and generally having a relaxing time out with the wife (dragging me around LOL). It was packed with people, and people were buying sh*t... unfortunately they won't accept this week as evidence that malls remain popular, even without many tourists. They will demand evidence of people in quieter times of the year.

 

Regarding the myth that if no one can be seen in a store, it must be going broke. High end stores generally don't profit from window shoppers. The people who have money to buy their products go especially to buy them when they want them. For example, window shoppers don't generally pop in to PowerBuy to buy a new big screen TV, or washing maching, or refrigerator. They go there when they need to buy these appliances. Another example - high end sunglasses. People don't usually walk past Gucci sunglasses and grab a 20,000 baht pair just because it's there - they go there when they are looking to buy. My wife bought a pair earlier this year. We knew were to go, how much they would cost, and went there to buy.

 

The Studio 7 is busy because people who like Apple products go there to see the best selection in town. It is important for high profile brands to maintain a mall presence to be competitive. Some franchises do not have online stores in Thailand, specifically to protect their store's interests. For example, you cannot buy Victoria Secret stuff online. Louis Vuitton is another example. You cannot buy it online and need to visit a branch. The high end costmetics counters in the department store are another good example. They always seem quiet, all year around. You don't see people lining up to buy Chanel makeup or perfume, for example, but rest assured they have plenty of customers popping in over the week to keep them afloat. We have never had to wait in line to buy Chanel products at Central and it's probably the only place in town where you can buy them. There's a reason why top brand makeup counters can afford the premium rents of the 1st floor in malls.

[JensenZ]

8 hours ago, treetops said:

I have no "companion" on here and like to read the different views.  Commenting on viewpoints is not trolling and that's all I did, obviously to your dislike.  Well get over it or not, up to you, but don't think for a minute that debating is your strong suit, which is what you said of somebody else's debating skills.

You do have a companion, and your support of him defines where your head is at. Hint: he mentioned that mall shopping is for 14 year old girls. You have only replied to me to bait and back up your companion, with no discussion of the topic whatsover. Your only offering on the topic of shopping so far was about how no one shops in malls and everyone shops online. You are not in a position to be grading debating skills.

Edited December 29, 2021 by JensenZ

[mikebell]

The only people building in Pattaya are those who daren't put money in the bank.

[treetops]

14 hours ago, JensenZ said:

You do have a companion, and your support of him defines where your head is at. Hint: he mentioned that mall shopping is for 14 year old girls. You have only replied to me to bait and back up your companion, with no discussion of the topic whatsover. Your only offering on the topic of shopping so far was about how no one shops in malls and everyone shops online. You are not in a position to be grading debating skills.

Well I wish I knew as well as you who my companion was, and I'm glad you went back to read my comments (although it does seem a bit creepy that you would do that).

 

I had no intention to bait anyone but your reply to another poster about debating was frankly laughable when I'd just finished reading your input.  No need to get all cry baby hurt about it, maybe learn something instead?

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, treetops said:

Well I wish I knew as well as you who my companion was

He is talking of me and I guess still has a sore one.......

[Bangkokian2019]

Deleted

Edited December 30, 2021 by Bangkokian2019

[JensenZ]

15 hours ago, treetops said:

Well I wish I knew as well as you who my companion was, and I'm glad you went back to read my comments (although it does seem a bit creepy that you would do that).

 

I had no intention to bait anyone but your reply to another poster about debating was frankly laughable when I'd just finished reading your input.  No need to get all cry baby hurt about it, maybe learn something instead?

You're still keeping it personal and not debating the topic. Your use of puerile expressions (get all cry baby hurt) matches the "14-year old" comment by your companion, in fact it's exactly what you're expect a 14-year old girl to say.  

 

There was no need to re-read your only comment about shopping, because I had replied to it, and still remembered it. If it makes you feel good that I remembered it, enjoy the moment. Some people still have functioning memories, despite old age.

Edited December 30, 2021 by JensenZ

[Leaver]

On 12/28/2021 at 3:20 PM, JensenZ said:

I have been in the Studio 7 store 4 times in the 6 weeks (since the lockdown ended), to buy Apple products, and I had to wait in a queue at checkout to pay. The store was very busy each time I visited.

You do realize Apple is the most valuable company in the world.  

 

You have picked one of the most successful companies in history to make your point.  How many customers did you see in other shops, on each visit?  

 

On 12/28/2021 at 3:20 PM, JensenZ said:

The good news is we do not need to stress about how the stores are doing financially. We can just enjoy the mall for what it is, while it is.

 

Who's  stressed? 

 

I haven't invested in any of them, the same way I have put nothing into Thailand I can't leave behind and head straight to the airport, should I want to, or need to.  This is by design.

 

Your words, "while it is" sums it up.  While the stores are still open, enjoy, because they may not be there in the future.  

[Leaver]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:59 PM, kinyara said:

How long do you spend in Central and Terminal 21 ? I'd say you're spreading yourself a bit thin to make any sort of credible assessment of spending patterns, covering 2 separate malls with a couple of hundred or more outlets operating 10 hours a day, 7 days a week. As an example you seem to always post at the weekend late afternoons Thai time, ( breakfast UK time ) , which unless you're doing it from the malls themselves is I would have thought likely to be peak weekly shopping periods. More especially with the visiting local weekend crowd Pattaya attracts.

 

The shops in Central and Terminal 21 are not Icon Siam, Paragon or Emporium high end designer outlets for the rich, they are predominantly mid priced retail chains targeting exactly the local and foreign tourist mass clientele that Pattaya predominantly attracts. There is a middle class local market with spending power that allow Central malls to operate successfully without tourist clientele in other provincial cities in Thailand, zero reason to think those customers don't exist or have different spending patterns in Pattaya. 

 

 

Posting in the morning, just for you.  ????

 

You make a fair point.  I don't work in either mall, therefore, I am not spending 8, 10, or 12 hours working in a shop, to gauge how busy, or quiet, my shop is, and the amount of pedestrian traffic walking past, and if other shops are busy or quiet also.

 

My comments only come from my observations for the amount of minutes I am in the malls, at random times.  These observation are only a snapshot in time, but none the less, they still must be given some weight, because just how many random samples (visits) of observations is needed before one can come to the conclusion the majority of shops in the malls have little to no customers, the majority of the time?  Eg. one visit equals no weight at all, but 50 visits, surely all these snapshots, when viewed together, paint a picture.  

 

Does Pattaya have a big middle class?

 

The majority of tourists coming to Pattaya, which are package holiday Chinese, Indians, and Russians, are they middle class?  

 

Ask yourself this, we have all seen "the Chinese flag followers" around Pattaya, have you ever seen them in the malls?  Have you seen the coach buses pull up out the front and the Chinese going into the mall, or better still, getting back on the coach with their hands full of shopping bags?  I haven't, and that's not to say it doesn't happen, but maybe someone who has can post of their observations. 

 

The majority of tourists to Pattaya, pre covid, were Chinese, and by a vast majority. Can members post of their observations of seeing Chinese tourists in the malls, buying up big?  Anything from cheap souvenirs to the latest fashion, even some beach wear. 

 

Has any member observed the biggest tourist demographic hitting the malls for holiday shopping?  I haven't seen it.  Have you seen it, Kinyara?   

 

 

[LivinLOS]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:42 AM, Denim said:

This will be  featured in the ' Abandoned Buildings ' thread a few years from now.

97 all over again.. Late stage booms fueled by cheap credit.. 

 

 

[kinyara]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Posting in the morning, just for you.  ????

 

You make a fair point.  I don't work in either mall, therefore, I am not spending 8, 10, or 12 hours working in a shop, to gauge how busy, or quiet, my shop is, and the amount of pedestrian traffic walking past, and if other shops are busy or quiet also.

 

My comments only come from my observations for the amount of minutes I am in the malls, at random times.  These observation are only a snapshot in time, but none the less, they still must be given some weight, because just how many random samples (visits) of observations is needed before one can come to the conclusion the majority of shops in the malls have little to no customers, the majority of the time?  Eg. one visit equals no weight at all, but 50 visits, surely all these snapshots, when viewed together, paint a picture.  

 

Does Pattaya have a big middle class?

 

The majority of tourists coming to Pattaya, which are package holiday Chinese, Indians, and Russians, are they middle class?  

 

Ask yourself this, we have all seen "the Chinese flag followers" around Pattaya, have you ever seen them in the malls?  Have you seen the coach buses pull up out the front and the Chinese going into the mall, or better still, getting back on the coach with their hands full of shopping bags?  I haven't, and that's not to say it doesn't happen, but maybe someone who has can post of their observations. 

 

The majority of tourists to Pattaya, pre covid, were Chinese, and by a vast majority. Can members post of their observations of seeing Chinese tourists in the malls, buying up big?  Anything from cheap souvenirs to the latest fashion, even some beach wear. 

 

Has any member observed the biggest tourist demographic hitting the malls for holiday shopping?  I haven't seen it.  Have you seen it, Kinyara?   

 

 

Relative to the other cities in Thailand that support a Central Mall based overwhelmingly on the local market,  when you consider the industrial business and wealth outside of purely tourism within a 60km radius that surrounds the couple of square km's of the tourist dominated center, I'd say Pattaya's middle/disposable income earners/shoppers are quite likely to reflect favourably in comparison. I think the focus is always on weekend Bangkok custom but shopping wise it's just as likely if not moreso to be drawn from the likes of Sattahip,Sri Racha, Laemchabang, Chonburi, or even Rayong. The addition of T21 as well as Central gives Pattaya a competitive edge to those areas which only have a Robinson's or a Central. 

 

Although I've had to negotiate my way past tour buses on Beach Road offloading customers outside Central, my experience over the years has been that Mike's Shopping Mall is the price level and offering that appeals to the budget Chinese/Indian tour groups. ( I doubt any of us would expect to find them staying or eating in the Hilton either :)) ). I don't think they'd all fit in Central or T21 !

 

I remember a time when I walked into Apple in Central and every homescreen you pressed on the IMac's and Ipad's were set to Russian. They have always been in evidence shopping and buying in my experience.

 

Generally, in terms of who I see or hear in the malls when I go, it seems as varied an international demographic as you'd expect from the 19th most visited City in the world. I think that's part of their success, nationality is no barrier.

 

Enjoy your New Year long weekend off Leaver, but whatever you do avoid the malls, they'll be busy :))

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[newnative]

41 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Posting in the morning, just for you.  ????

 

You make a fair point.  I don't work in either mall, therefore, I am not spending 8, 10, or 12 hours working in a shop, to gauge how busy, or quiet, my shop is, and the amount of pedestrian traffic walking past, and if other shops are busy or quiet also.

 

My comments only come from my observations for the amount of minutes I am in the malls, at random times.  These observation are only a snapshot in time, but none the less, they still must be given some weight, because just how many random samples (visits) of observations is needed before one can come to the conclusion the majority of shops in the malls have little to no customers, the majority of the time?  Eg. one visit equals no weight at all, but 50 visits, surely all these snapshots, when viewed together, paint a picture.  

 

Does Pattaya have a big middle class?

 

The majority of tourists coming to Pattaya, which are package holiday Chinese, Indians, and Russians, are they middle class?  

 

Ask yourself this, we have all seen "the Chinese flag followers" around Pattaya, have you ever seen them in the malls?  Have you seen the coach buses pull up out the front and the Chinese going into the mall, or better still, getting back on the coach with their hands full of shopping bags?  I haven't, and that's not to say it doesn't happen, but maybe someone who has can post of their observations. 

 

The majority of tourists to Pattaya, pre covid, were Chinese, and by a vast majority. Can members post of their observations of seeing Chinese tourists in the malls, buying up big?  Anything from cheap souvenirs to the latest fashion, even some beach wear. 

 

Has any member observed the biggest tourist demographic hitting the malls for holiday shopping?  I haven't seen it.  Have you seen it, Kinyara?   

 

 

      You need to get out more--and check out some areas away from just central Pattaya.  Yes, Greater Pattaya has a big middle class.  I like to use the term Greater Pattaya to emphasize that the Pattaya area is quite large and, as I said, much more than just central Pattaya.  Spend some time on the Darkside and you'll understand what I am talking about. 

      Pattaya is a big city now.  When you get out, count the number of new car dealers we now have in Greater Pattaya.  I think we have at least two each of Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, and MG.  Plus dealers for Mercedes, BMW, Mitsubishi, Mini, Isuzu, Audi, and Subaru.  I imagine GWM will be along soon.  It takes a big middle class to support that many new car dealers--tourists don't usually buy a car to bring back as a souvenir in their suitcase while they are on vacation.  Ditto for all the other big retail we now have--including 3 Home Pros and 2 Boonthavorns.

     Your 'observations' on CF and T21 are still suspect.  They were both successful, pre-covid, and even now are mostly doing ok.  Yes, there are some closed shops at both--that's understandable after nearly 2 years of covid and no international tourists.  But, there are still far more shops that are open than those that have closed. 

     Contrast that with Harbor Mall.  Even pre-covid, it was not doing very well--that was easily observed.  Harbor is much newer than CF.  It didn't take that long for marginal stores and restaurants to close.  As I said in an earlier post, CF has been open since 2009.  If the mall wasn't working, like Harbor, it would be readily apparent by now. 

     That's not to say the mall hasn't changed and evolved.  My first visit to CF was in December 2009.  At that time, on the lower level there was an area with a few small furniture shops and, if I remember, home accessories.  Independent stores, not chains.  My partner and I bought a beautiful Thai statue at one of the shops that we still have.  It was my favorite area of the mall.  Unfortunately, these stores did not do enough business and they soon closed, to be replaced by other, mostly chain stores.

     Something like this is not unique to Pattaya.  The same thing happened in America in the town where I lived, Reston, Virginia.  Reston Town Center opened in the late 1980s to be the new 'town center' (in the 1960s 'new town' of Reston), with shops, restaurants, offices, residences, an ice skating rink, and a movie theater.  When it first opened, many of the stores were small, one-of-a-kind shops.  But the high rents soon forced most of them out, to be replaced with chain stores like Pottery Barn, with a more established customer base.    Whether you are here or in America, if a  store is not doing well, it's soon gone, to be replaced by something else.  That's business.  

     It's incorrect to state that Chinese tourists were the 'vast majority' of the tourists to visit Pattaya in 2019.  Total Chinese visitors to Thailand were 11 million in 2019.  Around 14 million tourists visited from other Asian countries.  So, Thailand received 3 million more visitors from other Asian countries than from China.  The rest of the 39 million total came from other countries.  China was, of course, the number one country for tourists but that does not mean the 'vast majority' came from China.  11 million out of 39 million is not a 'vast majority'.

     Looking at Pattaya, Pattaya's mayor says there were 15 million visitors to Pattaya in 2019.  Even if, say, half of the 11 million Chinese chose to visit Pattaya--highly unlikely--that would still just be 5.5 million, hardly, again, the 'vast majority' of the 15 million visitors.   With both Pattaya and Thailand, we can say that the majority of the tourists were Asian.  Let's curb the hyperbole.   

      

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, kinyara said:

Relative to the other cities in Thailand that support a Central Mall based overwhelmingly on the local market,  when you consider the industrial business and wealth outside of purely tourism within a 60km radius that surrounds the couple of square km's of the tourist dominated center, I'd say Pattaya's middle/disposable income earners/shoppers are quite likely to reflect favourably in comparison. I think the focus is always on weekend Bangkok custom but shopping wise it's just as likely if not moreso to be drawn from the likes of Sattahip,Sri Racha, Laemchabang, Chonburi, or even Rayong. The addition of T21 as well as Central gives Pattaya a competitive edge to those areas which only have a Robinson's or a Central. 

 

Although I've had to negotiate my way past tour buses on Beach Road offloading customers outside Central, my experience over the years has been that Mike's Shopping Mall is the price level and offering that appeals to the budget Chinese/Indian tour groups. ( I doubt any of us would expect to find them staying or eating in the Hilton either :)) ). I don't think they'd all fit in Central or T21 !

 

I remember a time when I walked into Apple in Central and every homescreen you pressed on the IMac's and Ipad's were set to Russian. They have always been in evidence shopping and buying in my experience.

 

Generally, in terms of who I see or hear in the malls when I go, it seems as varied an international demographic as you'd expect from the 19th most visited City in the world. I think that's part of their success, nationality is no barrier.

 

Enjoy your New Year long weekend off Leaver, but whatever you do avoid the malls, they'll be busy :))

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good reply, and I do not disagree with all you have said, but I will simply ask you a question, in YOUR opinion, just how many malls can Pattaya support, regardless of the debate if the current malls are successful and profitable?

 

For me, I saw T21 as really eating into Central, for which those that have invested in Central, will no doubt see losses.  Once again, it's not about holding back progress, but about town planning and having some surety in investing in property here.  

 

Can Pattaya support one more mall, two more malls, perhaps a third mall? 

 

Will malls that go broke in the future be repurposed into casinos, or like Mike's, into a hotel? 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future, but for me, the tourist demographic TAT has been targeting in recent years, is not conducive with the prosperity of malls targeting the middle class, or high end tourists, with the ideology of "build it and they will come."  

 

 

 

 

[treetops]

10 hours ago, JensenZ said:

You're still keeping it personal and not debating the topic. Your use of puerile expressions (get all cry baby hurt) matches the "14-year old" comment by your companion, in fact it's exactly what you're expect a 14-year old girl to say.  

 

There was no need to re-read your only comment about shopping, because I had replied to it, and still remembered it. If it makes you feel good that I remembered it, enjoy the moment. Some people still have functioning memories, despite old age.

Are you for real?

 

A couple of pages ago you accused a poster of having poor debating skills.  That is not debating the topic, and I politely pointed out that from a neutrals point of view you weren't doing so well either.

 

Since then you've taken it on yourself to make it personal.  If you think that's not posting like a child having a tantrum you really need to think again.

 

PS.  Please go back and look at the comment of mine about online shopping you remembered replying to then come back and let us know who you were really replying to.  I'll give you a clue first - it wasn't me - so how's the functioning memory now?

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

You need to get out more--and check out some areas away from just central Pattaya. 

 

Why?  We are talking about malls in Central Pattaya, are we not?

 

3 hours ago, newnative said:

Pattaya is a big city now. 

 

I agree, but a big city of what? 

 

One of the most popular restaurants in Pattaya for foreigners is Hungry Hippo, for cheap eats.

 

The biggest tourist demographic, pre covid, was cheap Chinese package holiday tourists.

 

Thailand has always had the elite, and the poor, with very few in between.  Thailand has never tried to grow a middle class, because they might try to change the status quo.  Indeed, Thailand is famous for military coups to make sure this continues.  

 

Just who are the malls targeting for customers out of who lives here, and out of who holidays here?

 

4 hours ago, newnative said:

Looking at Pattaya, Pattaya's mayor says there were 15 million visitors to Pattaya in 2019.  Even if, say, half of the 11 million Chinese chose to visit Pattaya--highly unlikely--that would still just be 5.5 million, hardly, again, the 'vast majority' of the 15 million visitors.   With both Pattaya and Thailand, we can say that the majority of the tourists were Asian. 

 

Just like TAT, you are only looking at the quantity, not the quality. 

 

Who out of all that quantity will be shopping in brand name shops in malls?

 

Pattaya is "the world's brothel" and has a lousy beach.  Where are the tourists going to come from who are not sex tourists, or cheap package holiday tourists? 

 

4 hours ago, newnative said:

 It's incorrect to state that Chinese tourists were the 'vast majority' of the tourists to visit Pattaya in 2019. 

They were the predominate nationality.  If you have a link that shows otherwise, please post. 

 

4 hours ago, newnative said:

 Something like this is not unique to Pattaya.  The same thing happened in America in the town where I lived, Reston, Virginia.  Reston Town Center opened in the late 1980s to be the new 'town center' (in the 1960s 'new town' of Reston), with shops, restaurants, offices, residences, an ice skating rink, and a movie theater.  When it first opened, many of the stores were small, one-of-a-kind shops.  But the high rents soon forced most of them out, to be replaced with chain stores like Pottery Barn, with a more established customer base.    Whether you are here or in America, if a  store is not doing well, it's soon gone, to be replaced by something else.  That's business.  

 

Once again, I question the relevancy of comparing Pattaya with a city in America, but will simply state, who can have confidence in investing in a mall here, when next year another two malls can be built? 

 

There's just no town planning here to instill the confidence of those wishing to invest in such ventures. 

 

I'll ask you the same question I asked Kinyara.   In YOUR opinion, just how many malls do you think Pattaya can support?  One more, two more, maybe three more?  There must be a limit. 

 

In my opinion, we are currently at the limit.  You disagree.  So how many more can be supported?   

[newnative]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Why?  We are talking about malls in Central Pattaya, are we not?

 

 

I agree, but a big city of what? 

 

One of the most popular restaurants in Pattaya for foreigners is Hungry Hippo, for cheap eats.

 

The biggest tourist demographic, pre covid, was cheap Chinese package holiday tourists.

 

Thailand has always had the elite, and the poor, with very few in between.  Thailand has never tried to grow a middle class, because they might try to change the status quo.  Indeed, Thailand is famous for military coups to make sure this continues.  

 

Just who are the malls targeting for customers out of who lives here, and out of who holidays here?

 

 

Just like TAT, you are only looking at the quantity, not the quality. 

 

Who out of all that quantity will be shopping in brand name shops in malls?

 

Pattaya is "the world's brothel" and has a lousy beach.  Where are the tourists going to come from who are not sex tourists, or cheap package holiday tourists? 

 

They were the predominate nationality.  If you have a link that shows otherwise, please post. 

 

 

Once again, I question the relevancy of comparing Pattaya with a city in America, but will simply state, who can have confidence in investing in a mall here, when next year another two malls can be built? 

 

There's just no town planning here to instill the confidence of those wishing to invest in such ventures. 

 

I'll ask you the same question I asked Kinyara.   In YOUR opinion, just how many malls do you think Pattaya can support?  One more, two more, maybe three more?  There must be a limit. 

 

In my opinion, we are currently at the limit.  You disagree.  So how many more can be supported?   

     'Why' what?  You questioned if Pattaya has a big middle class.  I answered, yes it does, and you have to include more than just central Pattaya when you are discussing Pattaya.  As I said in my post, you need to look at Greater Pattaya, including points north, south, and the Darkside.  Lots of people that don't live in central Pattaya still come in to town to go to the two large malls.  As another poster mentioned, there are non-tourist cities in Thailand that support large malls.  Sri Racha, for example,  also has two large malls.  There's no reason Pattaya can't support two large malls, as well. 

     How many malls can Pattaya support?  I have no idea.  I know it can support two, and those two I shop at, dine at, do my banking at, go to the movies at, etc.  By the way, I never said Pattaya is not 'at the limit' with malls.   Quote me correctly or not at all, please.   As I just said, I have no idea. In my opinion, there are several shopping centers--not really malls--that are poorly run and not offering much.  At some point they might be re-purposed--or they might keep limping along. 

      What I have said is that synergy can be a good thing.  It's on display this early evening in north Pattaya, an area that just becomes more and more popular with each new project that is built.  Also helped by the beach replenishment that has made Pattaya Beach a nice, wide beach--currently filling up with lots of people.

       You still seem to be focused on Aquatique being another new mall and your comments, including those in this latest post, are always questioning whether Pattaya can support yet another mall.  Perhaps you should have this tattooed somewhere on your body to help you remember:  Aquatique is not a mall.   It's a large, mixed-use project.  It's 4 new, high-end hotels.  It's a renovated older hotel, rebranded.  It's a convention center.  It's a Legoland.  It's some sort of aquarium/zoo.  It's a health and wellness center.  It's high-end residences.   And, likely some retail and other things I'm forgetting.  It's a lot of things but not another Central Festival or T21.  (Which also are not twins.)  Before discussing a topic in a thread, you might first find out what exactly you're discussing.  Otherwise, you risk being the reincarnation of Roseanne Roseannadanna.   

     

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

You questioned if Pattaya has a big middle class.  I answered, yes it does, and you have to include more than just central Pattaya when you are discussing Pattaya.  As I said in my post, you need to look at Greater Pattaya, including points north, south, and the Darkside.  Lots of people that don't live in central Pattaya still come in to town to go to the two large malls.  As another poster mentioned, there are non-tourist cities in Thailand that support large malls.  Sri Racha, for example,  also has two large malls. 

Just to clarify, in YOUR opinion, were the malls built for tourists, or locals?  

 

2 hours ago, newnative said:

How many malls can Pattaya support?  I have no idea.  I know it can support two, and those two I shop at, dine at, do my banking at, go to the movies at, etc.  By the way, I never said Pattaya is not 'at the limit' with malls.   Quote me correctly or not at all, please.   As I just said, I have no idea. In my opinion, there are several shopping centers--not really malls--that are poorly run and not offering much. 

So, you have no idea, but know know it can support two.  

 

Why not three?  ????  

 

2 hours ago, newnative said:

What I have said is that synergy can be a good thing. 

 

Pattaya offers sex, not synergy.  

 

The more I read your posts, the more I think you are a real estate agent here.  

 

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Also helped by the beach replenishment that has made Pattaya Beach a nice, wide beach--currently filling up with lots of people.

 

Would that be the same beach that washes away after every rain?

 

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Aquatique is not a mall.   It's a large, mixed-use project.  It's 4 new, high-end hotels. 

 

Great.  Pattaya definitely has a shortage of tourist accommodation.   ???? 

 

Errr, with such a nice beach and tropical vibe in Pattaya, tell me, where are the high end tourists coming from?  

 

2 hours ago, newnative said:

And, likely some retail and other things I'm forgetting. 

 

Yes, let's not forget retail, but I am sure Pattaya can sustain 3, 4, or 5 brand name shops, in malls, all within 1 mile of each other.  ???? 

 

2 hours ago, newnative said:

It's a lot of things but not another Central Festival or T21. 

 

I guess that's a relief for retail, but hotels must be concerned.  Right? 

 

3 hours ago, newnative said:

Before discussing a topic in a thread, you might first find out what exactly you're discussing.  Otherwise, you risk being the reincarnation of Roseanne Roseannadanna.   

 

Perhaps YOU should study a little about market forces, town planning, over development, and sustainability, otherwise, you run the risk of being a reincarnation of egg on face. 

 

Seriously, how much skin do you have in the game here????

 

Happy New Mall to you.  ????   

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

Just to clarify, in YOUR opinion, were the malls built for tourists, or locals?  

 

So, you have no idea, but know know it can support two.  

 

Why not three?  ????  

 

 

Pattaya offers sex, not synergy.  

 

The more I read your posts, the more I think you are a real estate agent here.  

 

 

Would that be the same beach that washes away after every rain?

 

 

Great.  Pattaya definitely has a shortage of tourist accommodation.   ???? 

 

Errr, with such a nice beach and tropical vibe in Pattaya, tell me, where are the high end tourists coming from?  

 

 

Yes, let's not forget retail, but I am sure Pattaya can sustain 3, 4, or 5 brand name shops, in malls, all within 1 mile of each other.  ???? 

 

 

I guess that's a relief for retail, but hotels must be concerned.  Right? 

 

 

Perhaps YOU should study a little about market forces, town planning, over development, and sustainability, otherwise, you run the risk of being a reincarnation of egg on face. 

 

Seriously, how much skin do you have in the game here????

 

Happy New Mall to you.  ????   

1.  Both.

2.  I know Pattaya can support 2 large malls because they are both open and doing ok in the very worst of times.  More than 2, already answered.  

3.  Ludicrous statement.

4.  Not a real state agent, but I could probably play one on TV (Thai Visa).

5.  Yes, that's the same beach.  Yes, parts of it erode during heavy rain.  It's usually repaired the next day.  Not unique to Pattaya.  Beach towns protect their biggest asset, the beach.  No big deal.  Get over it already--so boring. 

6.  'Tourist accommodation' is shifting to nicer, bigger, and name brand.  Take a gander at the nice north Pattaya hotels.  They're doing ok, with two more large ones under construction.  Some rundown, marginal 'accommodations' may fall by the wayside.  That's business.  

7.  Pattaya, like any other normal, large, beach city destination, will survive and thrive by attracting visitors from all economic strata.  You're likely the only one taking the high-end tourist thing seriously.

8.  Retail businesses will decide how many outlets they need in an area, not me.  We've already discussed this so many times.  Stores open, stores close.  Some work, some don't.  Why keep harping on this?  It's not unique to Pattaya.   Again, so boring.

9.  No. Not right.  Consider a SYNERGY tattoo, as well.  You keep forgetting that, too.  Again, take a gander at the group of hotels in north Pattaya. 

10.  Another ludicrous comment.  But, not as ludicrous as your comment that McDonalds put all the other hamburger shops in Orlando out of business.  Going to be hard to top that one.

11.  Nothing that I can't afford to lose.

 

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, newnative said:

1.  Both.

 

Interesting TAT is targeting tourists that can't afford to shop in them.

 

19 hours ago, newnative said:

2.  I know Pattaya can support 2 large malls because they are both open and doing ok in the very worst of times.  More than 2, already answered.  

 

There are more than 2 malls here.  I guess that's bad luck for the other ones. 

 

19 hours ago, newnative said:

4.  Not a real state agent, but I could probably play one on TV (Thai Visa).

 

Nah. 

 

19 hours ago, newnative said:

5.  Yes, that's the same beach.  Yes, parts of it erode during heavy rain.  It's usually repaired the next day.  Not unique to Pattaya.  Beach towns protect their biggest asset, the beach.  No big deal.  Get over it already--so boring. 

 

Pattaya Beach can't attract high end tourists, no matter how much repair they do.  You need to understand this. 

 

19 hours ago, newnative said:

6.  'Tourist accommodation' is shifting to nicer, bigger, and name brand.  Take a gander at the nice north Pattaya hotels.  They're doing ok, with two more large ones under construction.  Some rundown, marginal 'accommodations' may fall by the wayside.  That's business.  

 

Sure, but does that mean they will be successful?

 

19 hours ago, newnative said:

7.  Pattaya, like any other normal, large, beach city destination, will survive and thrive by attracting visitors from all economic strata.  You're likely the only one taking the high-end tourist thing seriously.

 

This is a high end development, isn't it?

 

19 hours ago, newnative said:

9.  No. Not right.  Consider a SYNERGY tattoo, as well.  You keep forgetting that, too.  Again, take a gander at the group of hotels in north Pattaya. 

 

How was their occupancy rate, pre covid? 

 

19 hours ago, newnative said:

10.  Another ludicrous comment.  But, not as ludicrous as your comment that McDonalds put all the other hamburger shops in Orlando out of business.  Going to be hard to top that one.

 

Perhaps you should Google "globalisation" and educate yourself.

 

 

[redwood1]

Face the facts.......Pattaya is for el-cheapo budget tourist and el-cheapo bar girl hunters with some 2 week millionaires.......That's all it will ever be because there is nothing in Pattaya to attract anyone else......

No historical buildings

No amazing temples

Nothing scenic

No wildlife

No forest

Very lame beaches

Dirty ocean water

Nothing spectacular or Amazing at all here....ZERO

 

Only lots and lots and lots of bars.....

 

Any one stupid enough to build this mall or what ever you want to call

it, deserves to lose every last dollar they invest and go bankrupt...

Edited January 1, 2022 by redwood1