Can Thailand become a digital nomad hub?

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, recom273 said:

Oh really? 
 

it’s also a really <deleted> life .. living out of a bag, at 50+
 

I know a few people who are successful nomads, true nomads, I also know young guys who can sit on a 100B plastic chair all day, squinting at a laptop screen with nothing more than a smile, that’s not me .. a lot just burn out, one had back surgery and also a lot make very little at all. I don’t disagree that you have met, but everyone’s successful aren’t they, no one’s ever going to say they are <deleted> are they? 

None of the ones I met were anywhere near 50+. LOL.  All living successfully off their work.  I met them on Koh Lanta, Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, etc.  I've got several friends who do this also.  Been doing it for a very long time.  One makes big money.  Programming remotely.  Lives in a 18MM Baht condo with seaview.  Doubt he owns a 100B plastic chair.

[Pravda]

16 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

All of that can be done from a good laptop.  Easy.  Which is what the digital nomads I've seen do.

 

What do you think digital nomad is?

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Pravda said:

 

What do you think digital nomad is?

Someone who works remotely.  Sometimes constantly on the move.  Other times, not so much.

 

As a former programmer, we always had to work at the office.  Never had the option to work remotely.

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

None of the ones I met were anywhere near 50+. LOL.  All living successfully off their work.  I met them on Koh Lanta, Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, etc.  I've got several friends who do this also.  Been doing it for a very long time.  One makes big money.  Programming remotely.  Lives in a 18MM Baht condo with seaview.  Doubt he owns a 100B plastic chair.

So you are just going by what they say apart from one who had tangible evidence. FYI, trust fund puppies rarely admit that is what they are, they are always something, historically, what used to be Thailand's "unpublished authors", morphed into internet entrepreneurs, then currency traders, and now they are "nomads"/crypto millionaires.

 

I did remote work - need a 30" monitor to do what I did. Again. not sure about quality of life if you have to be there for US timezone.

 

Again, I don't doubt their existence, just the real numbers, and again, my admiration for those who really have made it work.

 

[Jeffr2]

Just now, mokwit said:

So you are just going by what they say apart from one who had tangible evidence. FYI, trust fund puppies rarely admit that is what they are, they are always something, historically, what used to be Thailand's "unpublished authors", morphed into internet entrepreneurs, then currency traders, and now they are "nomads"/crypto millionaires.

 

I did remote work - need a 30" monitor to do what I did. Again. not sure about quality of life if you have to be there for US timezone.

 

Again, I don't doubt their existence, just the real numbers, and again, my admiration for those who really have made it work.

 

Ummm...spent a fair amount of time with them.  Saw them working, talked about their work, how long did they plan to say in Thailand, etc.  I probably spoke to at least 15 over the few months we were traveling around that area. 

 

Dealing with the US time zone was a problem for a few.  But, ya get up early, deal with it, and go back to sleep.  They seem to have handled it fairly well.

 

Programming, proof reading, marketing, even one who did online counseling.  And made huge money at it.  But she was a real professional.  Several degrees and all.

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Programming, proof reading

Lucky there is no competition from Indians prepared to do it for less (and probably to ahigher standard). As for proof reading specifically, I knew someone who was doing that but he was earning less and less as the algorithm automatically sent it to the cheapest freelancer available. So now it sends it to someone living in a hut on Samui.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, mokwit said:

Lucky there is no competition from Indians prepared to do it for less (and probably to ahigher standard). As for proof reading specifically, I knew someone who was doing that but he was earning less and less as the algorithm automatically sent it to the cheapest freelancer available. So now it sends it to someone living in a hut on Samui.

Not one I met was an Indian.  The proof reading was for highly technical medical documents.  A medical background was a requirement.

[Nsp64]

5 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I didn't know they had taken a vow of poverty

Think you missed the point.

A nomad has no fixed dwelling, so by definition own no home.

[mokwit]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Not one I met was an Indian.  The proof reading was for highly technical medical documents.  A medical background was a requirement.

So why didn't you say that? I would call that technical editing and accept it is a viable field - as I said, I don't doubt that kind of person is doing it, I know a Doctor who does internet medical consultations, I just doubt that all those who claim they are are - you would need a very specific skill/background.  You didn't meet the Indians because they are back in India working for less.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Nsp64 said:

Think you missed the point.

A nomad has no fixed dwelling, so by definition own no home.

But the length of being a nomad could include up to one year or so in an apartment.  It doesn't require moving around every day.

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

So why didn't you say that? I would call that technical editing and accept it is a viable field - as I said, I don't doubt that kind of person is doing it, I know a Doctor who does internet medical consultations, I just doubt that all those who claim they are are - you would need a very specific skill/background.  You didn't meet the Indians because they are back in India working for less.

I met a Thai lady not long ago who travels almost full time.  Makes big money off her YouTube videos.  Lots of sponsors, etc.  She does extremely well.

 

I'm in one of her videos. LOL.  Just for a few seconds.

 

I Roam Alone. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Jeffr2

[mokwit]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

I met a Thai lady not long ago who travels almost full time.  Makes big money off her YouTube videos.  Lots of sponsors, etc.  She does extremely well.

 

I'm in one of her videos. LOL.  Just for a few seconds.

 

I Roam Alone. 

You need a minimum 10,000 subscribers just to get paid at all off you tube - so anyone saying they make money off YouTube with less than 10,000 subs can be dismissed right there - although a few have a product sponsor fair enough, but they would need real numbers even in a niche to make money. In advertising the metric is 'cost per thousand'

 

The top youtubers make millions - but it's just a few and arguably at the expense of the less successful, and I would guess it is deliberately structured like that for the same reason MLM and Wall St are deliberately structured like that - people run much harder in the hamster wheel in pursuit of a dream - youtube needs content creation.

 

All this "I know one person who,  met a few people who". I know people who made millions in the finance industry but most of the population doesn't.

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

Yes but you are advocating the demise of that. If there is any revamp of regulations it is unlikely to be in our favour. This is not going to be a tax paradise once data capture is sufficiently advanced. IMO If they have not pursuing foreign tax it is as much from the difficulty previously of doing so.  Think how the visa situation changed once they had the technology to to know about and control the minutia of everything. There is already evidence that they are triangulating so that if you have been here 181 days and are not registered for tax, likely there will come a time at some point that it will be that you will get contacted.

Anybody that stays more than 180 days in Thailand is tax-resident, and fully income taxable to Thailand, including all us staying on retirement extensions, or whatever extension of stay we might use.

 

But of course numerous of expats with foreign income are covered by a Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) for part of their income, or all their foreign income, others can directly have benefits from using a DTA, and pay less tax in Thailand of income from their home country, if they transfer the money into Thailand.

 

Thailand's income tax is a great benefit for many that originates from developed countries, it seems like you may not know enough about Thai income taxation...????

[mokwit]

Just now, khunPer said:

Anybody that stays more than 180 days in Thailand is tax-resident, and fully income taxable to Thailand, including all us staying on retirement extensions, or whatever extension of stay we might use.

 

But of course numerous of expats with foreign income are covered by a Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) for part of their income, or all their foreign income, others can directly have benefits from using a DTA, and pay less tax in Thailand of income from their home country, if they transfer the money into Thailand.

 

Thailand's income tax is a great benefit for many that originates from developed countries, it seems like you may not know enough about Thai income taxation...????

I think you missed my point.

[sqwakvfr]

I have asked some in person and posted comments on youtube channels:  "What is a Digital Nomad?"  I have never heard a clear answer.  I know some claim to be online video editors and some are actual coders so are these people  Digital Nomads?  Are travel vloggers digital nomads? Are remote workers the same as "Digital Nomads"? Are Ebay Sellers Digital Nomads?  Are Crypto Currency investors Digital Nomads?  

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

First they have to actually want foreigners here, which the majority don't and certainly not in any significant numbers.

Indeed, it could be argued that Thailand was THE hub for these so called 'digital nomad' types but over the two to three years prior to the pandemic they spent their time dismantling it piece by piece, denying people entry, etc.

 

[ukrules]

32 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

But the length of being a nomad could include up to one year or so in an apartment.  It doesn't require moving around every day.

Immigration made stays of this length increasingly difficult for the age group who tend to spend a year in a country before moving on.

 

Shame really as I think there were a lot of them, they're likely never coming back either.

 

 

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

Immigration made stays of this length increasingly difficult for the age group who tend to spend a year in a country before moving on.

 

Shame really as I think there were a lot of them, they're likely never coming back either.

 

 

There used to be all kinds of interesting people living here before the first set of visa crackdowns, now it's retirees, people married to Thais and teachers mostly.

[khunPer]

42 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I think you missed my point.

Not at all, income tax system will not be changed because of a relative small number of foreigners...????

[mokwit]

Just now, khunPer said:

Not at all, income tax system will not be changed because of a relative small number of foreigners...????

I said if there were any changes they would not be in our favour, and you are right that Parliament will not change the laws specifically for a few foreigners, but my post was about greater ease and thus greater effort in enforcing the existing regulations.

[shadowofacloud]

5 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Show me a real example of someone that is an actual digital nomad, not just someone who's only business is talking about being a digital nomad.

Here is one!

More of digital expat, but the underlying concept is the same.

[khunPer]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I said if there were any changes they would not be in our favour, and you are right that Parliament will not change the laws specifically for a few foreigners, but my post was about greater ease and thus greater effort in enforcing the existing regulations.

What are the existing rules for digital nomads and remote workers..?????

[daveAustin]

6 hours ago, zzzzz said:

As far as internet goes<  I was paying 640 baht ( @$20) for AIS fiber in Phuket 200 mbs up and down>
I am now in Kep cambodia paying $16 for 18 mbs up and down and its JUST AS FAST as i was getting in Phuket as nobody uses fiber, only their phones>

Easy 1 year visas<  Up to 8% interest on fixed bank accounts

Downside is outside of PP; availability of goods is way below Thailand, Medical outside of PP sucks, accommodations are nowhere near the value, street food sucks, cost are appx 20% higher for most things

But it is an option for those that cant afford or qualify for the "digital nomad visa" in Thailand

That’s the only plus regards Cam; easy visa. Just found it far too edgy and lack of infrastructure, high costs compared to Thai. 
 

As for digital nomad, been there done that. Could have been anywhere at any time, just give me a laptop/connectivity and easy access to this or that country. Earned pretty good (few hours a day, any time), but not to the extent of what the gov was recently touting as their def of a dig nomad, and oh the requirements! They haven’t a clue. And, now, what this lady is alluding to, there would just be too much red tape. The Thais can’t help themselves. Those guys would not want the hassle and would go elsewhere, or fly under the radar. 

 

But I’ll let the good folk on here squabble over what they think a digital nomad is. Always fun seeing boomers get bent out of shape on something they have no concept of. 

[mokwit]

Just now, khunPer said:

What are the existing rules for digital nomads and remote workers..?????

Same as for everyone else. As you say, they are unlikely to change the tax code for a few foreigners, but any visa if they do comeout with one has to fit that code - I believe that was a stumbling block to offering tax breaks as originally planned for the 4 new "Rich people" visas.

 

That said, Thailand may have to change its laws once it joins international tax reporting.

[shadowofacloud]

As someone, who has been working remotely from Thailand since 2016 until end of 2019, when I got a bit tired of the whole visa mess and moved to a neighboring country, I would really need just one thing: a long-term, multi-entry visa that allows you to work remotely from the Kingdom.

 

The 10y visa proposed a few months back would be just fine, provided it's finally implemented. I don't mind the requirements, most people in my line of work (sr sw engineers), won't have any problems meeting them.

 

It's really simple - just implement the visa, publicize it a little bit, and people will start flowing in. Not sure if I would come back for good, but would get the visa just in case.

[garyk]

I am in an upscale area of Colombia (Granada, Cali). Starbucks are packed day and night with these guys. The upscale coffee houses are so full of them they have no seating. Reminds me of years ago in Thailand. 

These nomads are living in the best areas, best laptops, best coffee (haha). 

Colombia welcomes all comers, Like Thailand of old. ugggg  

 

Anyone think these guys and gals don't make a difference should see the prices the locals charge to accommodate the nomads. The locals are getting rich.

 

Thailand has run off all the people that made it great. Personally I doubt Thailand will ever be number one again. 

 

To change the subject, I am a retiree from the US. My sweet GF of over 10 years is wanting me to come back and live. She wants the days of old. Spending my money on her and her family. Those days are gone for good with the new rules. Local people are loosing quality of life in a huge way. Greed and government has ruined it.

 

The digital nomads that review Thailand are saying it is to be avoided as a retirement destination. Or as a digital nomad destination!  

 

You see the media blitz Thailand puts out, but the people that research it know it is to be avoided.

Edited December 5, 2021 by garyk

[Jeffr2]

37 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

That’s the only plus regards Cam; easy visa. Just found it far too edgy and lack of infrastructure, high costs compared to Thai. 
 

As for digital nomad, been there done that. Could have been anywhere at any time, just give me a laptop/connectivity and easy access to this or that country. Earned pretty good (few hours a day, any time), but not to the extent of what the gov was recently touting as their def of a dig nomad, and oh the requirements! They haven’t a clue. And, now, what this lady is alluding to, there would just be too much red tape. The Thais can’t help themselves. Those guys would not want the hassle and would go elsewhere, or fly under the radar. 

 

But I’ll let the good folk on here squabble over what they think a digital nomad is. Always fun seeing boomers get bent out of shape on something they have no concept of. 

Some  boomers know exactly what this is all about. I've been doing it since 2012. All over the world.

[TaoNow]

So, would this allow someone here in Thailand on a retirement extension to work for pay as a moderator of an online forum (such as aseannow.com or other entity) without the need for a work permit?

 

It's an honest question.

[BumGun]

8 hours ago, tingtongfarang said:

By nature nomads should not want to own a condo

Well, I like one for a home base, currently this is how I use (before Covid, currently it's where I am living)  my condo in Australia, then rent it out when away.  The issue becomes Visas, short the Elite Visa there really isn't anything in Thailand. 

 

Assuming I then own place, it might be nice to gain actual residency so you have a right to return to said condo when you want. Even if I owned one in Thailand, there is no guarantee I could live in it.

 

So I am happy to rent in Thailand when I am there and arbitrage the ridiculous rent I can get on my place in Aus. rather then buy a place in Thailand I have no right to live in (but would own)

Edited December 5, 2021 by BumGun
typos

[shadowofacloud]

26 minutes ago, BumGun said:

So I am happy to rent in Thailand when I am there and arbitrage the ridiculous rent I can get on my place in Aus. rather then buy a place in Thailand I have no right to live in (but would own)

That's exactly what I am doing.

 

I own a small, but very centrally located apartment in one of the European capitals and renting it out covers a major chunk of the rent I am paying here. Plus the apartment's value appreciates like crazy, so even letting it sit there empty makes sense from an investment perspective.

 

At this stage I definitely prefer to rent in SE Asia. I haven't yet decided if I am going spend the rest of my life here (most likely not) and I like to change houses every year or so.