ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[KhunLA]

You're welcome ... have at it.

[Boomer6969]

I don't think the issue is how we mobilise the energy we consume, it is more about limiting our consumption. Flying 10 time around the world, every year for leisure of frivolous work meetings is criminal, we can have perfectly good lives while staying within a few hundred kilometres from where we live.

[ChristianBlessing]

The past, the future. 

[malathione]

Where Thailand is concerned, and, my penchant for traveling to its more remote corners, the point is moot. No or few charging points and very slow charging where available at all. I'm not going to wait for an hour waiting for a full charge part way into a long drive.

[digbeth]

even if you don't mind the slow charging, taking a rest break, eating while charging, the current charging network is not enough on busy Thai holiday long weekends where even petrol pumps and service areas are jam packed, if there's even a few EVs ahead of you in a queue, each doing 20min-half hour at least (likely more) that's too long of a queue for the fast charger. 

 

 

[sezze]

9 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

I don't think the issue is how we mobilise the energy we consume, it is more about limiting our consumption. Flying 10 time around the world, every year for leisure of frivolous work meetings is criminal, we can have perfectly good lives while staying within a few hundred kilometres from where we live.

Thats rather strange , unless you are a Thai . Most people here are people living in Thailand or going holiday Thailand , and also most people birth nation is much further away then a few 100km .

It doesn't mean that we shouldn't limit our consumption , if i see many peoples electric bills over here , there's still a lot of work to be done. 

[DUNROAMIN]

Better off with a Hybrid in Thailand for now. Cant see the infrastructure here for another 10 years to support EVs.

[Boomer6969]

41 minutes ago, sezze said:

Thats rather strange , unless you are a Thai

Are you implying that only Thais will admit their past errors? 

 

Strange indeed.

[sezze]

11 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

Are you implying that only Thais will admit their past errors? 

 

Strange indeed.

No , i agree that we all make errors , we are all human . But you are saying:  i did that , but you cannot . People must be able to travel , far or close , that's personal choice . The travel industry does need to adapt also , but saying you can't anymore is a different thing .High speed rail is 1 thing which can already be a big thing , if the price is not more then a plane ticket .

[HarrySeaman]

To be clear, some definitions and abbreviations.

 

ICE: Internal Combustion Engine.

HEV: Hybrid Electrical Vehicle - a non-plugin vehicle driven by a combination of an ICE and an electrical motor.  Electrical energy is provided by batteries that are recharged by the ICE recharging or regenerative braking.

PHEV: a HEV that you can plugin to recharge the batteries.  Usually these also have regenerative braking.

PEV: Plugin Electric Vehicle - a fully electrical vehicle, driven only by an electrical motor that uses electricity from batteries that are recharged by an external electrical power source.

 

The amount of pollution produced decreases as you go down the list.

 

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

 

Which comes first, the PEV or the charging network?

 

What is needed is a commitment by governments and the auto manufactures to jointly build out a charging network and covert to manufacturing only PEVs within 5-6 years, not the half assed 2035 commitment of the USA.  An ICE vehicle, HEV, or PHEV will be practically worthless then.

 

China is basically making this 5-6 year commitment.  Unless the other countries make the commitment then Chinese EVs will be the dominant cars being sold worldwide in 5 years.

[thaibook]

If the technology is better and the price competitive people will choose, but I object to coercion.  And assuming a moral point of view with regards engines is similar to assuming it on homosexuality or prostitution.

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, thaibook said:

If the technology is better and the price competitive people will choose, but I object to coercion.  And assuming a moral point of view with regards engines is similar to assuming it on homosexuality or prostitution.

Price is the sticking point for me.  Even though long run, they'll pay for themselves vs petrol & maintenance, that's a big leap for range and performance / highway speed.  

 

Range being limited to a slower speed, and for Thailand, a few more EVs on the road, and the now adequate charging stations will have Qs, longer than I'd want to wait, as out & about more than most.  The convenience of topping up the ICE in 5 minutes, is a fair trade for once or twice a year killing 45 minutes at the dealer, sipping coffee on the internet, waiting for the oil change or tune up.

 

Around town, they, EVs really can't be beat.  Way to practical.  I drive my E-motorcycle & ebike a few times a day.  Our ICE, maybe once a week.

 

Countries need to do a lot more non fossil fuel energy, but that's not happening anytime soon.  Dictated by the way too powerful oil cartels.

[DekDaeng]

7 hours ago, thaibook said:

If the technology is better and the price competitive people will choose, but I object to coercion.  And assuming a moral point of view with regards engines is similar to assuming it on homosexuality or prostitution.

I disagree. One engine is killing the planet, the other can (help) save it.

[BritManToo]

Car battery lasts 8-10 years, then it'll be $20,000* for a new battery.

Which is probably more than the resale value of the car.

Can't see dumping cars every 8-10 years as good for the world (or our pockets).

My diesel pickup is 24 years old and still going strong.

 

*Tesla charge $22,000 for a new battery.

Edited January 10, 2022 by BritManToo

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, DekDaeng said:

I disagree. One engine is killing the planet, the other can (help) save it.

Nothing is killing the planet, the planet is fine.  Human WILL eventually destroy the natural resources then need to live on the planet, and become extinct, or close to it.   But the planet is fine.

[fdsa]

 

 

Hydrogen ICE is the only true "green" engine, but Z.O.G. does not allow it to be mass produced.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by fdsa

[2009]

7 minutes ago, fdsa said:

 

 

Hydrogen ICE is the only true "green" engine, but Z.O.G. does not allow it to be mass produced.

 

Ever heard of the sun?

[thaibook]

16 hours ago, DekDaeng said:

I disagree. One engine is killing the planet, the other can (help) save it.

 

15 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Nothing is killing the planet, the planet is fine.  Human WILL eventually destroy the natural resources then need to live on the planet, and become extinct, or close to it.   But the planet is fine.

Have you not noticed the treasure and brain power invested recently in early planning for colonies on Mars?

 

The approach to "climate change" is the same as towards Covid.  No consideration of the cost benefit of alternatives; simply an all out frenzy by fanatics who have scared others into thinking that the end of the world is nigh.

[Henryford]

An EV would be a nightmare here in Thailand, unless you live in a house with a charging port and only do short around town journeys. I can't see that changing for 20+ years.

[KhunLA]

55 minutes ago, thaibook said:

 

Have you not noticed the treasure and brain power invested recently in early planning for colonies on Mars?

 

The approach to "climate change" is the same as towards Covid.  No consideration of the cost benefit of alternatives; simply an all out frenzy by fanatics who have scared others into thinking that the end of the world is nigh.

Nothing but wasted $$$ and brain cells, till they can figure a way to travel at warp speed.  Your tax $$$ at work, going into someone's pocket / slush fund.

 

They can't even get to the moon, or keep shuttles in the air safely.  By the time they figure it out, there will be so much trash orbiting the planet, it might be impossible ... ????

 

And the ambient temps on Mars ... ????

Edited January 11, 2022 by KhunLA

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, 2009 said:

Ever heard of the sun?

Good luck charging your car from 'the sun' if you live in England.

[KhunLA]

I like the cars with build in solar panel ... although when parking here, it's a fight for the shaded spots, so maybe not practical except for those out & abouts.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, thaibook said:

 

Have you not noticed the treasure and brain power invested recently in early planning for colonies on Mars?

 

The approach to "climate change" is the same as towards Covid.  No consideration of the cost benefit of alternatives; simply an all out frenzy by fanatics who have scared others into thinking that the end of the world is nigh.

And (coincidentally) it's the intelligentsia that benefits from both. 

[placeholder]

19 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Nothing is killing the planet, the planet is fine.  Human WILL eventually destroy the natural resources then need to live on the planet, and become extinct, or close to it.   But the planet is fine.

Someone else who thinks they are making a serious point by taking a figure of speech literally.

Edited January 11, 2022 by placeholder

[giddyup]

19 hours ago, 2009 said:

Ever heard of the sun?

Is the production of solar panels environmentally friendly?

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Someone else who thinks they are making a serious point by taking a figure of speech literally.

Don't think it was a figure of speech, and yes, took it literally also.  Implied, killing the natural resources humans need to survive; air & water being polluted  Yes, that is real and on topic, whether ICE or EV, both are detrimental to the resources (air & water) for humans to live on the 'planet'.

 

Debate which is better, leave that up to y'all, because I simply don't care.  But the planet, it's doing fine.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Don't think it was a figure of speech, and yes, took it literally also.  Implied, killing the natural resources humans need to survive; air & water being polluted  Yes, that is real and on topic, whether ICE or EV, both are detrimental to the resources (air & water) for humans to live on the 'planet'.

 

Debate which is better, leave that up to y'all, because I simply don't care.  But the planet, it's doing fine.

 

Maybe you should try reading what you wrote Here it is again:

"Nothing is killing the planet, the planet is fine.  Human WILL eventually destroy the natural resources then need to live on the planet, and become extinct, or close to it.   But the planet is fine."

What you wrote, clearly takes it literally. Whether you actually believe that to be the case, and especially whether you care about the issue or not, are irrelevant. I'm holding you accountable for what you wrote. Whether that corresponds to what you believe or what you feel, who cares?

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

And (coincidentally) it's the intelligentsia that benefits from both. 

 

"Yes Brother Number One, shall we round up all the schoolteachers to start with...........and maybe everyone wearing glasses?"

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Enoon

[2009]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Good luck charging your car from 'the sun' if you live in England.

Lol. Nonsense. 

[placeholder]

20 hours ago, fdsa said:

 

 

Hydrogen ICE is the only true "green" engine, but Z.O.G. does not allow it to be mass produced.

 

Utter nonsense. Green hydrogen is still very expensive to produce although the price is falling rapidly thanks to recent advances in electrolysis. Hydrogen filling stations are also very expensive to build since storage facilities for hydrogen are not cheap.

And as the percentage of renewable power grows, EVs will progressively become less polluting. By, the way, that same proviso would apply to hydrogen power.