ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[JBChiangRai]

Incidentally, I do like Elon Musk.  I think his businesses are risky because they are all about him.  If he dropped dead, shares in his business would immediately be in the toilet.  admittedly, it's a low risk than him shooting his mouth off which often has the same effect.

 

Giving one guy ultimate control without checks and balances, gets things done quickly, but it also leads to mistakes, his Yoke steering wheel is a good example.  I don't like his approach to nickel & diming cost cutting, removing stalks from steering wheels, not having a speedometer in your line of sight, putting the indicator switches on the steering wheel.  some of these things are dangerous to new Tesla drivers.

 

It's hard not to admire Elon Musk for what he has achieved, but he's not infallible and not trustworthy, you have to take what he says with a pinch of salt.

[KhunLA]

I tend to go for best product at best price = best value for said customer.  Don't about their PR/owner's opinion on life and or politics.

 

That said, I don't think Tesla cars are that any more, especially at the price point in TH.

 

I do like Musk though, and agree with a lot of his thoughts.

Edited February 4 by KhunLA

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

When you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME

Oh, that was amusing the first thousand times I heard it. 

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Here are a couple of examples

 

Musk Censors the Press | CNN Business

Twitter’s rulebook in a nutshell: don’t annoy Elon Musk | Elon Musk | The Guardian

So, a few people over a year ago that were attacking him, as opposed to entire topics that were off limits previously, got it.

 

 

But again, if I bought TSLA at about $20 five years ago and it's only about $200 today I'm mad because?

 

 

[HighPriority]

41 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You go lefty!

 

So, if I bought TSLA at about $20 five years ago and it's only about $200 today I'm mad because he supports free speech, and you don't? 

I have no problems with free speech and I’m quite baffled at how a dislike of someone’s business practices makes me a leftie…

 

Elon doesn’t give a rats arse about your free speech, him being a dictatorial autocrat is a reasonable way to describe his public persona however.

Im sure Elon thanks you for your blind worship, its amazing how money clouds peoples judgement.

 

Past results are no guarantee of future performance and you’re down $12 already today 🤣

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Oh, that was amusing the first thousand times I heard it. 

So, a few people over a year ago that were attacking him, as opposed to entire topics that were off limits previously, got it.

 

 

But again, if I bought TSLA at about $20 five years ago and it's only about $200 today I'm mad because?

 

 

 

The oldies are the best ones.

 

Did I say you were mad?  I don't think I did, I personally think you would have been foolish to hold onto them in late 2023 when noises were being made about BYD's potential superiority and higher margins, probably earlier too when he started slashing prices.

[HighPriority]

An Australian analysis of Musk:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-30/elon-musk-shrinking-tesla-margins-investors-wary-tech-boom/103402124?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

I have no problems with free speech and I’m quite baffled at how a dislike of someone’s business practices makes me a leftie…

 

Elon doesn’t give a rats arse about your free speech, him being a dictatorial autocrat is a reasonable way to describe his public persona however.

Im sure Elon thanks you for your blind worship, its amazing how money clouds peoples judgement.

 

Past results are no guarantee of future performance and you’re down $12 already today 🤣

But again, if I bought TSLA at about $20 five years ago and it's only about $200 today I'm mad because?

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

But again, if I bought TSLA at about $20 five years ago and it's only about $200 today I'm mad because?

 

 

Hello?

 

Anyone else hearing an echo?

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The oldies are the best ones.

 

Did I say you were mad?  I don't think I did, I personally think you would have been foolish to hold onto them in late 2023 when noises were being made about BYD's potential superiority and higher margins, probably earlier too when he started slashing prices.

You claimed: "Musk/Tesla is different, Musk should answer to the board as all CEO's are supposed to do, but they are all yes men, he makes dangerous decisions and says dangerous things.  The board is supposed to answer to the shareholders."

 

I asked what he had done to harm shareholders and you seem to have nothing. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Hello?

 

Anyone else hearing an echo?

Is this where I'm supposed to say it's not an echo, it's just bouncing around in your empty scull or some other silliness? 

 

You could just answer the question and be done with it. 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

You claimed: "Musk/Tesla is different, Musk should answer to the board as all CEO's are supposed to do, but they are all yes men, he makes dangerous decisions and says dangerous things.  The board is supposed to answer to the shareholders."

 

I asked what he had done to harm shareholders and you seem to have nothing. 

 

 

 

Several things.  

 

He stated he had backing to take the company private when he hadn't, lots of investors lost money over that.

 

He wants to move the company's HQ to another state so he can be rewarded with $56B, a judge didn't feel that was in the shareholders interest and blocked it.

 

I can' answer your question on whether you are mad, because I never said you were.

[HighPriority]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

But again, if I bought TSLA at about $20 five years ago and it's only about $200 today I'm mad because?

 

No one is saying you should be !

You keep making this claim like it should impress people, the only people impressed are those who like you are morally bankrupt.

 

You should be proud of what a fine upstanding humanitarian he is, keep up the cash supply 👍🏼

[HighPriority]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You claimed: "Musk/Tesla is different, Musk should answer to the board as all CEO's are supposed to do, but they are all yes men, he makes dangerous decisions and says dangerous things.  The board is supposed to answer to the shareholders."

 

I asked what he had done to harm shareholders and you seem to have nothing. 

 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-30/elon-musk-shrinking-tesla-margins-investors-wary-tech-boom/103402124?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link

[Yellowtail]

1. I never said I was mad.

2. I never said I owned any Tesla stock. 

16 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-30/elon-musk-shrinking-tesla-margins-investors-wary-tech-boom/103402124?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link

3. If you can't answer the question, why bother responding to it? 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

 

3. If you can't answer the question, why bother responding to it? 

 

Because I can't answer the question, that is why I responded to it.

 

It could also have something to do with you demanding an answer to it ad nauseum too.

 

Here is my prediction for Tesla in Thailand.  They will pull out and either leave a skeleton maintenance team or they will subcontract maintenance.

 

My reason is simple.  Elon Musk makes decision on emotion sometimes.  He got a bloody nose over his sub affair, he is probably angry that Chinese EV companies are getting subsidies he's cant because he won't commit to making vehicles here (he can't, he chose China for his ASIA/OCEANIA production base) and thirdly because his sales volumes here are terrible because he can't compete with BYD.

[Yellowtail]

26 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Several things.  

 

He stated he had backing to take the company private when he hadn't, lots of investors lost money over that.

How would you (or anyone) know whether he had the backing to take the company (Tesla?) private?

 

How did the "lots of investors" lose money? 

26 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

He wants to move the company's HQ to another state so he can be rewarded with $56B, a judge didn't feel that was in the shareholders interest and blocked it.

Do you mean the pay package he negotiated that was (as I understand it) 100% merit based? 

 

What state does he want to move to now? Did they not just move a few years ago? 

26 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I can' answer your question on whether you are mad, because I never said you were.

I think you are just being obtuse to avoid answering. I do not think you are so stupid as to not understand the question, but of course I could be wrong, first time for everything. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Because I can't answer the question, that is why I responded to it.

 

It could also have something to do with you demanding an answer to it ad nauseum too.

 

Here is my prediction for Tesla in Thailand.  They will pull out and either leave a skeleton maintenance team or they will subcontract maintenance.

 

My reason is simple.  Elon Musk makes decision on emotion sometimes.  He got a bloody nose over his sub affair, he is probably angry that Chinese EV companies are getting subsidies he's cant because he won't commit to making vehicles here (he can't, he chose China for his ASIA/OCEANIA production base) and thirdly because his sales volumes here are terrible because he can't compete with BYD.

Are you the same guy posting with different accounts? I was not asking you. I know why you are dodging the question. 

[HighPriority]

37 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

1. I never said I was mad.

2. I never said I owned any Tesla stock. 

3. If you can't answer the question, why bother responding to it? 

If you can’t click read and comprehend the opinion in the link, up to you.

If you want to make statements inferring facts and later claim innocence I’ll cease wasting my time with you.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

How would you (or anyone) know whether he had the backing to take the company (Tesla?) private?

 

How did the "lots of investors" lose money? 

Do you mean the pay package he negotiated that was (as I understand it) 100% merit based? 

 

What state does he want to move to now? Did they not just move a few years ago? 

I think you are just being obtuse to avoid answering. I do not think you are so stupid as to not understand the question, but of course I could be wrong, first time for everything. 

 

The SEC determined he didn't have the backing to take Tesla private, that's good enough for me, it also fits with his behaviour.

Investors lost money because  the share price swung up and then tanked.

 

I mean the share package that a judge ruled was unfathomable. You mean the one he negotiated with himself & his yes men directors?

 

Elon Musk has announced plans to move Tesla’s legal incorporation from Delaware to Texas following a judge’s decision to annul his whopping $55.8 billion compensation package.

 

You pose a question about yourself, I chose not to answer but to comment on it.

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Are you the same guy posting with different accounts? I was not asking you. I know why you are dodging the question. 

 

I can confirm this is the only account I have had here over the last 10 years or so.

[HighPriority]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Are you the same guy posting with different accounts? I was not asking you. I know why you are dodging the question. 

I’ll add that I have only ever had 1 TV/AN account, this one.

How many accounts do you have on TV/AN ?
 

Forget that, we don’t want anyone getting in trouble…

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

If you can’t click read and comprehend the opinion in the link, up to you.

You said nothing and just posted a link to something. Why should I read it when you are too lazy to comment on it?

11 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

If you want to make statements inferring facts and later claim innocence I’ll cease wasting my time with you.

What facts were I inferring? You made claims that you were not able to support and now you want to blame me. Whatever. 

[HighPriority]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You said nothing and just posted a link to something. Why should I read it when you are too lazy to comment on it?

What facts were I inferring? You made claims that you were not able to support and now you want to blame me. Whatever. 

Thank you for confirming the disingenuous manner that punctuates your posts.

 

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The SEC determined he didn't have the backing to take Tesla private, that's good enough for me, it also fits with his behaviour.

Investors lost money because  the share price swung up and then tanked.

So some lost money and some lost money. 

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I mean the share package that a judge ruled was unfathomable. You mean the one he negotiated with himself & his yes men directors?

Yes, that one. The pay package he negotiated that was (as I understand it) 100% merit based? Do you know anything about it? 

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Elon Musk has announced plans to move Tesla’s legal incorporation from Delaware to Texas following a judge’s decision to annul his whopping $55.8 billion compensation package.

So he's not moving the HQ. Who would you rather have running the company, Elon, or the Judge? 

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You pose a question about yourself, I chose not to answer but to comment on it.

Okay, sorry, I'll rephrase it such that you are able to understand it better. 

 

Why would a shareholder that bought TSLA at about $20 five years ago and it's only about $200 today have cause to be unhappy with Elon?

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I can confirm this is the only account I have had here over the last 10 years or so.

Indeed

[JBChiangRai]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So some lost money and some lost money. 

Yes, that one. The pay package he negotiated that was (as I understand it) 100% merit based? Do you know anything about it? 

So he's not moving the HQ. Who would you rather have running the company, Elon, or the Judge? 

Okay, sorry, I'll rephrase it such that you are able to understand it better. 

 

Why would a shareholder that bought TSLA at about $20 five years ago and it's only about $200 today have cause to be unhappy with Elon?

Indeed

 

 

Do I know anything about his pay package? Yes I do, details are in the public domain.

Regarding HQ Elon Musk announces plans to move Tesla HQ in revenge for Delaware pay row (msn.com)

Who would I rather have running the company? A responsible CEO reporting to the board who acted in the best interests of all shareholders.

 

Why would a shareholder be unhappy with Elon? I think you would have to ask that shareholder, I am right out of telepathy juice today.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

Do I know anything about his pay package? Yes I do, details are in the public domain.

Regarding HQ Elon Musk announces plans to move Tesla HQ in revenge for Delaware pay row (msn.com)

Who would I rather have running the company? A responsible CEO reporting to the board who acted in the best interests of all shareholders.

 

Why would a shareholder be unhappy with Elon? I think you would have to ask that shareholder, I am right out of telepathy juice today.

The shareholders approved the pay package, not the just board, and of course, the shareholders have enjoyed a 2000% return since the vote. 

 

Elon Musk's 'unfathomable' $56 billion Tesla pay package | Reuters

[Gweiloman]

Can you please take your discussion about Elon Musk somewhere else?

[OneMoreFarang]

It's bad enough that it burns. 

But it is really uncomfortable when the electric doors and electric windows don't open anymore.

 

https://youtu.be/dQxm6n7SdvE?si=RW9PrRIonVRaQber

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 2/4/2024 at 10:30 AM, Yellowtail said:

How would you (or anyone) know whether he had the backing to take the company (Tesla?) private?

They would know simply by following the news. Both a judge and the SEC found that he did not have the backing, and lied when he said that he did. Musk also had to pay a $20 million fine to the SEC over this.

 

Quote

The filing said that the court ruled April 1 that Musk's 2018 tweets were "false and misleading." The court "held that he recklessly made the statements with knowledge as to their falsity," it said.

 

Judge rules Musk's tweets over taking Tesla private were false, investors say

 

Quote

The SEC’s complaint alleged that, in truth, Musk knew that the potential transaction was uncertain and subject to numerous contingencies. Musk had not discussed specific deal terms, including price, with any potential financing partners, and his statements about the possible transaction lacked an adequate basis in fact. 

 

Elon Musk Settles SEC Fraud Charges; Tesla Charged With and Resolves Securities Law Charge

[vinny41]

37%-42% Depreciation on 1 year old 10,000 miles UK electric cars

 

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

37%-42% Depreciation on 1 year old 10,000 miles UK electric cars

 

Also, the car that appreciated in value the most in the last year in the UK is an EV