ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

  

SAIC's MG division last year, apparently doing quite well also, though BYD has taken a bit out of that lately.

 

And who says the Chinese are stupid?

[Lacessit]

On 7/29/2024 at 9:14 AM, JBChiangRai said:

Here is a likable Yellowtail in my bedroom.

 

 

I hope it's an indoor cat. Gingers are quite murderous on wildlife outside.

 

My son had a Ginger, now sadly departed. Inside the house, spiders, flies, cockroaches, even mosquitoes - she was a killer.

[Lacessit]

On 7/30/2024 at 12:01 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Back to the past then? There was a little ICE car that looked exactly like that when I was a kid. I think it was German

Goggomobil. About as safe in traffic as being on a scooter.

 

 

[billd766]

On 7/30/2024 at 12:01 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Back to the past then? There was a little ICE car that looked exactly like that when I was a kid. I think it was German

IIRC there were several. BMW/Isetta and Heinkel.  They were known as bubble cars.

 

There was also a Messerschmitt KR 200 but that was a 2 seater inline 

[Lacessit]

Goggomobil sports, with all the safety features.........

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Goggomobil sports, with all the safety features.........

I like mine better ...

 

[JBChiangRai]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I hope it's an indoor cat. Gingers are quite murderous on wildlife outside.

 

My son had a Ginger, now sadly departed. Inside the house, spiders, flies, cockroaches, even mosquitoes - she was a killer.

 

Yes, he's an indoor cat.  He does go outside occasionally and comes back, a couple of times we've forgotten to bring him in and he's sat outside the front door at 6am.  Officially, he's my eldest daughter's cat, but she now has a cocker spaniel and I get to look after him.

 

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I like mine better ...

 

 

I used to own at ATV adventure business, the whole fleet was 2 seater UTV's with a honda 150cc clone engine.  Great fun, and the police didn't mind us going on the road.  I would have one as a play thing if I could get an EV model.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Yes, he's an indoor cat.  He does go outside occasionally and comes back, a couple of times we've forgotten to bring him in and he's sat outside the front door at 6am.  Officially, he's my eldest daughter's cat, but she now has a cocker spaniel and I get to look after him.

 

 

I used to own at ATV adventure business, the whole fleet was 2 seater UTV's with a honda 150cc clone engine.  Great fun, and the police didn't mind us going on the road.  I would have one as a play thing if I could get an EV model.

One of those ATV's as an EV could be quite interesting, in terms of acceleration. Wouldn't the battery be too heavy, though?

[JBChiangRai]

27 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

One of those ATV's as an EV could be quite interesting, in terms of acceleration. Wouldn't the battery be too heavy, though?

 

China do make them, but when I last looked (>5 years ago) they were all Lead-Acid batteries.  An LFP battery would probably make it a bit heavier, with a shorter range, but it would be ideal for running around town, to Central Plaza too (if they would let you park it there).

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

China do make them, but when I last looked (>5 years ago) they were all Lead-Acid batteries.  An LFP battery would probably make it a bit heavier, with a shorter range, but it would be ideal for running around town, to Central Plaza too (if they would let you park it there).

I was thinking about how they would go in soft sand.

[KhunLA]

Real degradation, and, older models, different chemistry.  200k miles = 320k kms, or 16 years for our 20k kms a year driving, if we continue at that rate. 

 

At today's petrol savings of ~฿42k or ฿54k a year, depending if all local driving is charged w/PEA, or latter savings, w/Solar.  Total savings over 15 years respectfully, ฿672k & ฿864k.  All things being equal, for easy math, as surely they will change in the future.

 

That's the amount we'd save, and also the amount, ฿864k, it would cost to drive the ICE version of our EV, MG ZS.  Accurate #s, since owned / own both.  So not only did it cost us to buy the ICE version for ฿695k, it would cost another ฿864k to operate it, not counting oil changes (30+) and tune-ups (~6 @ 50k kms intervals).  

 

Food for Thought ... Live with Your Choices 

 

 

 

Edited August 6 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

 

[Bandersnatch]

China, the world’s largest auto market is now over 50% electric.

 

What effect is this having on foreign brands?

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

China, the world’s largest auto market is now over 50% electric.

 

What effect is this having on foreign brands?

 

 

 

But Akio Toyoda said it would peak at 30%

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

China, the world’s largest auto market is now over 50% electric.

 

What effect is this having on foreign brands?

 

 

 

Nice to see that the cherry 🍒 harvest is still going strong 💪. 

Hybrids are now considered EVs in China 🇨🇳???

 

China reaches milestone with over 50% of July vehicle sales as electric or hybrid.

https://www.cbtnews.com/china-reaches-milestone-with-over-50-of-july-vehicle-sales-as-electric-or-hybrid/#:~:text=electric or hybrid-,China reaches milestone with over 50% of July,sales as electric or hybrid&text=In a significant leap forward,Passenger Car Association (CPCA).

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Nice to see that the cherry 🍒 harvest is still going strong 💪. 

Hybrids are now considered EVs in China 🇨🇳???

 

China reaches milestone with over 50% of July vehicle sales as electric or hybrid.

https://www.cbtnews.com/china-reaches-milestone-with-over-50-of-july-vehicle-sales-as-electric-or-hybrid/#:~:text=electric or hybrid-,China reaches milestone with over 50% of July,sales as electric or hybrid&text=In a significant leap forward,Passenger Car Association (CPCA).

Those numbers are across the board for every country.   Talk about cherry picking.

 

Toyota Yaris Cross "Hybrid HEV", w/Battery: 0.77 kWh 178 V lithium-ion ... seriously, why even bother 

Edited August 10 by KhunLA

[ExpatOilWorker]

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Those numbers are across the board for every country.   Talk about cherry picking.

 

Toyota Yaris Cross "Hybrid HEV", w/Battery: 0.77 kWh 178 V lithium-ion ... seriously, why even bother 

EVangelits have crossed and dotted the boards with crayons 🖍 😀 for a long time, but hybrids are still not EVs.

Good thing we have the FactCheck patrol to sort through all the rotten cherries 🍒. 

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

EVangelits have crossed and dotted the boards with crayons 🖍 😀 for a long time, but hybrids are still not EVs.

Good thing we have the FactCheck patrol to sort through all the rotten cherries 🍒. 

The have electric motors, and separate batteries to operate them.  Sounds like electric vehicle to me.

Edited August 10 by KhunLA

[ExpatOilWorker]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

The have electric motors, and separate batteries to operate them.  Sounds like electric vehicle to me.

 

What would you call a car, that the owner uses only his battery & electric motor of his/her PHEV all year, and never used the ICE part of the car ?

 

A diesel ... 

I would call the car a plug-in hybrid, but I can think of many creative names for the owner 😁 😂 😀 🤣. 

Since you and the cherry 🍒 farmer are so keen on including hybrids with EVs, let's also throw all the hybrid fires 🔥 on top of EV fires 🔥, just to get the party started.

[Yellowtail]

95% of trains in US are now classed as EVs per KuhnLA definition. 

 

General Electric Locomotive, driven by electric motors: 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

Maybe we should just classify all EVs as hybrids? After all they spend most of the time connected to a dino fuel ⛽️ burner and just temporarily disconnect, while out searching for the next charging station.

 

[KhunLA]

35 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

95% of trains in US are now classed as EVs per KuhnLA definition. 

 

General Electric Locomotive, driven by electric motors: 

 

 

Not my definition.  

 

For me, IMHO, BEV is an EV.   Just pointed out eow's hypocrisy, of singling CH out, for listing hybrids as EV, and not the rest of the world.

 

I don't get the practicality (redundancy) of HEV or PHEV myself, unless living where CS aren't available, or BEV is not practical for ones lifestyle.

 

Oh yea ... they're not for everyone 🙄

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Maybe we should just classify all EVs as hybrids? After all they spend most of the time connected to a dino fuel ⛽️ burner and just temporarily disconnect, while out searching for the next charging station.

 

Now who's cherry pickin'

 

... that's an issue for your govt and big oil's collusion & corruption.

 

Not my problem 😎

 

 

Edited August 10 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

FWIW, I would classify a PHEV as an EV, but not a Hybrid.

 

Or to put some ridiculous marketing spin on it hoping customers are totally ignorant Not a "Self-Charging Hybrid".

[ExpatOilWorker]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

FWIW, I would classify a PHEV as an EV, but not a Hybrid.

 

Or to put some ridiculous marketing spin on it hoping customers are totally ignorant Not a "Self-Charging Hybrid".

Also the fire 🔥 statistics or are you selective with ur classifications?

[JBChiangRai]

32 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Also the fire 🔥 statistics or are you selective with ur classifications?

 

I think it would be useful to split fire stats into PHEV & HEV.

[Captain Flack]

I have removed a reported off topic flame post.

[ExpatOilWorker]

32 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think it would be useful to split fire stats into PHEV & HEV.

....and 100% EV, just like the vehicle clarification is now, but of course that is not stopping the propaganda cherry harvest.

 

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Also the fire 🔥 statistics or are you selective with ur classifications?

fire stats been done to death ...

... ICEV lose big time in that competition

 

Why do you persist ...

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

fire stats been done to death ...

... ICEV lose big time in that competition

 

Why do you persist ...

 

Not in ferocity.....🤗