Engine seize

[dddave]

My dad was a clergyman.  Howard, the proprietor of a nearby garage/gas station ("Jenny" for New Englander's with long memories) was a member of my Dad's parish and used to give my Dad a substantial discount on maintenance he did on our car.

At one point my Dad had prevailed on him to hire what today we call a mentally challenged individual, son of another parishioner.

 

Walter was not too bright but but he was diligent and did his best to do the simple tasks given to him.  As time went on, he was able to take on slightly more demanding tasks.  One such task was draining the crankcase oil from cars needing an oil change.

All Walter had to do was descend into the pit, unscrew the drain plug, drain the oil and put the plug back in.  Howard always took care of the actual oil installation.

 

We had a new car: a very clergyman like 1961 Rambler.  It was a decent car and safe from me wanting to borrow it 

Walking was preferable to my classmates seeing me driving a Rambler.

 

So it came to pass that my Dad took the Rambler in for an oil change and that Walter drained the oil and that Howard installed 5 fresh quarts of new oil. 

It must have been a busy afternoon at the pumps because somehow when Howard put the new oil in, he failed to check the finished oil level, thus he did not discover until much later that Walter had neglected to put the drain plug back in.

That discovery came about because the next day, my Dad had to officiate at a funeral with the following interment at a cemetery located in the next town over.  Midway to the burial site, clouds of grey black smoke started puffing from the Rambler's tailpipe and shortly thereafter, the engine was as dead as the subject of the procession. 

He hitched a ride on the hearse, read the service, then called Howard.

Howard showed up with the tow-truck and once the Rambler was up on the hook,  peered underneath.  It was then that the missing drain plug became evident.

Howard had a predictably profane assessment of Walter interspersed with a few "Sorry, Reverend's".   

It was a very awkward moment as he had hired Walter in the first place at my Dads request.

 

I was secretly thrilled at the Rambler's apparent demise, convinced that whatever replaced it couldn't possibly be as socially demeaning to me as the Rambler was.

I never discovered the details of the negotiations between Howard and my Dad.

All I know is that one week later, my Dad showed up with a new car...another identical '61 Rambler.  

I was devastated but the worst was yet to come.

 

On my 18th birthday several weeks later, my Mom & Dad led me blindfolded out the back door to the driveway where sat the previous '61 Rambler with a big bow on it.

Howard had found a cheap used engine from a wreck and installed it.  My Dad and he worked out a fair price and it was now mine.

I tried to look thrilled...I think I succeeded.

Inside I was dying.

My Dad would say: "Everything happens for a reason." and I guess that must be so.

It turned out that the Rambler made me a hero...everyone wanted to borrow it, including the guy's with the customized flathead Ford's and '55 Chevy's, they all loved my car.

You see, the front seat folded down and joined the rear seat, thus forming a very serviceable bed..........

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by dddave

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So... with all of that information and discussion behind us.... 

 

What do we think happened ???

 

The Op noticed a power loss....  took the car in to the garage. 

The garage returned the car, the car seized 3 days (20km) later. 

The op noticed nearly zero (extremely low) oil.

 

Had the Op been driving around for a few months with extremely low oil and the timing of engine seizure was coincidence ? - Should the garage have checked the oil levels (I think yes, others say its not their job because they weren’t asked to - which I disagree with). 

 

Then what ?...  Oil very low oil. Oil filter loosened somehow while in the garage ?

By the time the Op got the car home it had lost sufficient oil to to cause seizure ? - a possibility. 

 

I don't know what you think, but it doesn't add up for me, so I think he made all or at least much of it up. 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I don't know what you think, but it doesn't add up for me, so I think he made all or at least much of it up. 

Why don't you wait until the final work is done on OP's car.

I expect with people here so sceptical and maybe unqualified OP won't bother now.

 

[Woof999]

16 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Why don't you wait until the final work is done on OP's car.

I expect with people here so sceptical and maybe unqualified OP won't bother now.

 

I likely wouldn't let a few people who prefer to be negative and basically accuse me of lying (without the balls to come out and say that directly) stop me from updating the thread I started. I wonder what they think I have to gain? The dealer knows what they did or didn't do, the dealer knows the current state of the engine, Nothing I write here will change what's already happened. I purposely haven't written the identity of the dealer because I want to give them every opportunity to come up with a solution. There is no pressure on them to do something in my favour because of the existence of this thread.

 

Most people that I "meet" on the internet that like to see the negatives before the positives also don't have the quality of character to apologise once they find out they were wrong. I lose no sleep over them. I just wonder what happened in their life previously that made them so bitter. I guess I laugh a little too.

[PFMills]

13 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I likely wouldn't let a few people who prefer to be negative and basically accuse me of lying (without the balls to come out and say that directly) stop me from updating the thread I started. I wonder what they think I have to gain? The dealer knows what they did or didn't do, the dealer knows the current state of the engine, Nothing I write here will change what's already happened. I purposely haven't written the identity of the dealer because I want to give them every opportunity to come up with a solution. There is no pressure on them to do something in my favour because of the existence of this thread.

 

Most people that I "meet" on the internet that like to see the negatives before the positives also don't have the quality of character to apologise once they find out they were wrong. I lose no sleep over them. I just wonder what happened in their life previously that made them so bitter. I guess I laugh a little too.

I have read through this thread, carefully I think, and I don’t see mentioned anywhere. why you didn’t get any warning, would have expected a low oil pressure light at least to initiate.

 

That is a puzzle can you give a reason. TBH seems some fact/facts are missing here.

Edited January 22, 2022 by PFMills

[Woof999]

1 minute ago, PFMills said:

I have read through this thread, carefully I think, and I don’t see mentioned anywhere. why you didn’t get any warning, would have expected a low oil pressure light at least to initiate.

 

That is a puzzle can you give a reason

I can't. My wife drives the car much more than me but I still drive it regularly enough to have seen any warning light. There have been none. I've also instilled in my wife that ANY warning light while the car is running is bad, that she stops the car immediately and calls me.

 

The car had a total respray a few years ago (it is almost as new from the outside). The spray shop did a fantastic job but disconnected the battery so the airbag warning light had been on ever since (resetting this was one of the tasks I asked them to do on the Friday visit). My wife reminded my of that warning light regularly, so she was at least heeding my advice to check for lights.

[Kwasaki]

26 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I likely wouldn't let a few people who prefer to be negative and basically accuse me of lying (without the balls to come out and say that directly) stop me from updating the thread I started. I wonder what they think I have to gain? The dealer knows what they did or didn't do, the dealer knows the current state of the engine, Nothing I write here will change what's already happened. I purposely haven't written the identity of the dealer because I want to give them every opportunity to come up with a solution. There is no pressure on them to do something in my favour because of the existence of this thread.

 

Most people that I "meet" on the internet that like to see the negatives before the positives also don't have the quality of character to apologise once they find out they were wrong. I lose no sleep over them. I just wonder what happened in their life previously that made them so bitter. I guess I laugh a little too.

Yeah I just would like to know the outcome and the work carried out on vehicle.

I expect you reliase it is a very strange set of circumstances of how the engine seize came about. 

 

I have a list of things I would look for but without being there cannot come up with the cause. ????????

[Woof999]

8 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I just would like to know the outcome and the work carried out on vehicle.

I expect you reliase it is a very strange set of circumstances of how the engine seize came about. 

 

I have a list of things I would look for but without being there cannot come up with the cause. ????????

I'm not sure I'll ever know the exact cause of events, but it would almost certainly be because of old oil. I would guess that the sludge I saw at the bottom of the sump might be enough to block a sensor / switch, but that is all it would be, a guess.

 

I have some options:

 

1.) Let the dealer rebuild a new engine. Highly unlikely to happen unless the $$$ was so good that I couldn't turn it down. I don't really want this dealer doing any more work, not just because of the lack of oil check, but because they since presented me a bill to fix the engine without checking anything in the head, and they suggested using the old oil pump in the brand new short block - something I'd never even consider let alone suggest. If the engine is out and with a new short block, then the bare minimum would be new water pump, oil pump, cam oil seals, valve stem seals, timing belt, regardless of current condition.

 

2.) Take the car to another private garage and have them fit a used / recon engine. However I'd want to know the history of the engine and that requires faith in LOS (which as a scientist I don't have much of). This is an avenue I'm already pursuing and will happen early next week unless the dealer has come up with a miracle beforehand.

 

3.) Sell the car as is. 2 interested parties so far but no firm offers. This would lose me the most $$$ but that isn't my biggest concern. It would also be the least hassle.

[Woof999]

Forgot to mention here but have in PMs. The dealer did offer me a quick fix so I could sell the car fast. I refused to discuss what that would entail. It's not something I would do.

[Ralf001]

12 hours ago, dddave said:

My dad was a clergyman.  Howard, the proprietor of a nearby garage/gas station ("Jenny" for New Englander's with long memories) was a member of my Dad's parish and used to give my Dad a substantial discount on maintenance he did on our car.

At one point my Dad had prevailed on him to hire what today we call a mentally challenged individual, son of another parishioner.

 

Walter was not too bright but but he was diligent and did his best to do the simple tasks given to him.  As time went on, he was able to take on slightly more demanding tasks.  One such task was draining the crankcase oil from cars needing an oil change.

All Walter had to do was descend into the pit, unscrew the drain plug, drain the oil and put the plug back in.  Howard always took care of the actual oil installation.

 

We had a new car: a very clergyman like 1961 Rambler.  It was a decent car and safe from me wanting to borrow it 

Walking was preferable to my classmates seeing me driving a Rambler.

 

So it came to pass that my Dad took the Rambler in for an oil change and that Walter drained the oil and that Howard installed 5 fresh quarts of new oil. 

It must have been a busy afternoon at the pumps because somehow when Howard put the new oil in, he failed to check the finished oil level, thus he did not discover until much later that Walter had neglected to put the drain plug back in.

That discovery came about because the next day, my Dad had to officiate at a funeral with the following interment at a cemetery located in the next town over.  Midway to the burial site, clouds of grey black smoke started puffing from the Rambler's tailpipe and shortly thereafter, the engine was as dead as the subject of the procession. 

He hitched a ride on the hearse, read the service, then called Howard.

Howard showed up with the tow-truck and once the Rambler was up on the hook,  peered underneath.  It was then that the missing drain plug became evident.

Howard had a predictably profane assessment of Walter interspersed with a few "Sorry, Reverend's".   

It was a very awkward moment as he had hired Walter in the first place at my Dads request.

 

I was secretly thrilled at the Rambler's apparent demise, convinced that whatever replaced it couldn't possibly be as socially demeaning to me as the Rambler was.

I never discovered the details of the negotiations between Howard and my Dad.

All I know is that one week later, my Dad showed up with a new car...another identical '61 Rambler.  

I was devastated but the worst was yet to come.

 

On my 18th birthday several weeks later, my Mom & Dad led me blindfolded out the back door to the driveway where sat the previous '61 Rambler with a big bow on it.

Howard had found a cheap used engine from a wreck and installed it.  My Dad and he worked out a fair price and it was now mine.

I tried to look thrilled...I think I succeeded.

Inside I was dying.

My Dad would say: "Everything happens for a reason." and I guess that must be so.

It turned out that the Rambler made me a hero...everyone wanted to borrow it, including the guy's with the customized flathead Ford's and '55 Chevy's, they all loved my car.

You see, the front seat folded down and joined the rear seat, thus forming a very serviceable bed..........

 

Cool story Hansel.

[Ralf001]

12 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 I would guess that the sludge I saw at the bottom of the sump

 

 

You saw the sump after it was removed ?

[Woof999]

Just now, Ralf001 said:

You saw the sump after it was removed ?

Yep. Saw it with con rods disconnected from crank. Saw the state of the shells and the sludge in the sump. Didn't look too closely, it wasn't good.

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I'm not sure I'll ever know the exact cause of events, but it would almost certainly be because of old oil. I would guess that the sludge I saw at the bottom of the sump might be enough to block a sensor / switch, but that is all it would be, a guess.

It wouldn't be old oil that would cause a seizure on it's own it would be the lack of oil. 

[Woof999]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

It wouldn't be old oil that would cause a seizure on it's own it would be the lack of oil. 

You're right. I mentioned the state of what was left as that *might* explain the lack of warning lights.

[Woof999]

Wife is on the way back from the airport. I think she has some photos of the shells cable tied to the con rods and the state of the sump. If she does I'll post them when she gets back in a couple of hours or so.

 

The last engine I rebuilt was an Alfa Romeo 3.2L V6 Busso. Loved those engines, but that was > 15 years ago and the knowledge is only slowly returning. On those I checked the oil every other mile !

[Ralf001]

18 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Wife is on the way back from the airport. I think she has some photos of the shells cable tied to the con rods and the state of the sump. If she does I'll post them when she gets back in a couple of hours or so.

 

 

Thanks, be insteresting to see them.

 

[PFMills]

Just bang another engine in. You will get a three month warranty.

 

If it sounds ok. the oil looks ok it will be ok.

 

It seems engine rebuilds on old engines are a thing of the past here

[Woof999]

Just now, PFMills said:

Just bang another engine in. You will get a three month warranty.

 

If it sounds ok. the oil looks ok it will be ok.

 

It seems engine rebuilds on old engines are a thing of the past here

I'd probably already have gone down that path if I'd found an engine. I've (only today) posted on a Pajero owners club FB group, and called a couple of possibilities in the Bang Na area of Bangkok. No luck just yet.

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, PFMills said:

Just bang another engine in. You will get a three month warranty.

 

If it sounds ok. the oil looks ok it will be ok.

 

It seems engine rebuilds on old engines are a thing of the past here

Why do you say that a renovation of an old engine or damaged engine up here in Sukhothai is what they do. 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, PFMills said:

Just bang another engine in. You will get a three month warranty.

 

If it sounds ok. the oil looks ok it will be ok.

 

It seems engine rebuilds on old engines are a thing of the past here

We have an auto machine shop in Ubon, a friend had their D4D completely rebuilt there..????

[Ralf001]

11 minutes ago, PFMills said:

Just bang another engine in. You will get a three month warranty.

 

If it sounds ok. the oil looks ok it will be ok.

 

It seems engine rebuilds on old engines are a thing of the past here

A friends son runs an engine rebuild shop in Bangkok with 30 staff.

 

Extremely busy iam told.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Thanks, be insteresting to see them.

 

Yeah, surprising the OP did not take a few pic when he saw it, particularly since he already had the thread going. 

[Woof999]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, surprising the OP did not take a few pic when he saw it, particularly since he already had the thread going. 

Because I saw it with my own eyes and my wife was sent pics. I didn't expect to have to "prove" anything to someone like you.

 

Are you available for hire for parties? If I have one that gets a little too fun I might just call you up.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Woof999 said:

I likely wouldn't let a few people who prefer to be negative and basically accuse me of lying (without the balls to come out and say that directly) stop me from updating the thread I started.

For me to call someone a liar would require more than them bullshi*ing about something on a chat board. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

To be clear:

1. The engine could have failed to something unrelated to the oil's age, condition or volume. 

2. When modern engines lose oil pressure they shut down

3. When a modern engine's oil pressure sensor faults, the engine shuts down

4. The oil pressure light comes on each time the key is turned on. The light not coming on is clearly something the OP, being a scientist and having rebuilt engines in the past would notice. 

5. The OP checked the oil two months  prior to the failure, and apparently the oil was fine then, so it must have turned to sludge in two months. 

6. The Mitsubishi dealer wants to install and warrant a short-block, which would lead me to believe that there was no significant issue with the oil. 

 

[Woof999]

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

For me to call someone a liar would require more than them bullshi*ing about something on a chat board. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

4. The oil pressure light comes on each time the key is turned on. The light not coming on is clearly something the OP, being a scientist and having rebuilt engines in the past would notice. 

 

Are you this obnoxious face to face? If so, can you let me know what medical insurance company you use. I need to renew mine soon.

[xylophone]

18 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

Are you this obnoxious face to face? If so, can you let me know what medical insurance company you use. I need to renew mine soon.

That which I mentioned in an earlier post is coming to fruition for you, and I do sympathise with you, because you will always find somebody who insinuates that you are lying or questions your posts to that effect.

 

Finding out how to use the ignore button certainly saved me reading a lot of rubbish from certain posters, so you might want to check that out!!

 

On an entirely different subject, and not that I am knowledgeable in such matters, but don't Nissan and Mazda make pickup trucks? And I seem to recall that the latest Nissan one had a good write up somewhere.

 

Jumping around a bit here, but decades ago the 1300cc engine (a dog of an engine) on my Cortina blew up (or just about) and a friend's older brother said he could replace it with a second hand one, and he went to a local car wrecker and bought a 1500cc Ford engine, stuck it in the car, and it went extremely well over the remaining few years I had it!!!!!

 

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

[Yellowtail]

25 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

Are you this obnoxious face to face? If so, can you let me know what medical insurance company you use. I need to renew mine soon.

Do scientists generally have to resort to ad hominem attacks? 

 

I self insure, you? 

[Woof999]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Do scientists generally have to resort to ad hominem attacks? 

I was following your lead. Pretty sure you started with accusations and, when called out on them, doubled down.

 

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I self insure, you? 

I guess you'd have to. Regency I think the name of mine is / was.

[Woof999]

8 minutes ago, xylophone said:

That which I mentioned in an earlier post is coming to fruition for you, and I do sympathise with you, because you will always find somebody who insinuates that you are lying or questions your posts to that effect.

 

Finding out how to use the ignore button certainly saved me reading a lot of rubbish from certain posters, so you might want to check that out!!

 

On an entirely different subject, and not that I am knowledgeable in such matters, but don't Nissan and Mazda make pickup trucks? And I seem to recall that the latest Nissan one had a good write up somewhere.

 

Jumping around a bit here, but decades ago the 1300cc engine (a dog of an engine) on my Cortina blew up (or just about) and a friend's older brother said he could replace it with a second hand one, and he went to a local car wrecker and bought a 1500cc Ford engine, stuck it in the car, and it went extremely well over the remaining few years I had it!!!!!

 

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

Thanks for the comments, appreciated. He can write whatever he wants and until I get really bored I'll happily entertain him.