The Silent, Vaccinated, Impatient Majority

[Airalee]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let me see if you can grasp this.

 

An overweight person who is vaccination has a much lower chance of being made seriously ill, hospitalized or killed by COVID than does an unvaccinated overweight person.

 

I don’t know.  But they should both probably lose some weight.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Airalee said:

I don’t know.  But they should both probably lose some weight.

I’m not at all surprised you don’t know.

 

You also seem to not know the topic is not other people’s body weight.

[Airalee]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not at all surprised you don’t know.

 

You also seem to not know the topic is not other people’s body weight.

Well, then all those people should consult with their individual doctors and not worry about what a bunch of impatient anonymous forum members (or anybody else) thinks.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

But the facts (numbers) are saying something different.

 

Let’s look at New South Wales (population 8.166 million)

 

 “2,030 COVID-19 patients were hospitalized in New South Wales. Of those patients, 28.8% were unvaccinated and 68.9% were fully vaccinated.”

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/14/blog-posting/australia-vaccination-status-hospitalized-covid-19/

 

2030 in the hospital out of 8,166,000.  That’s one out of every (over) 4,000 people.  Insignificant.

 

Feel free to pull up the statistics for the other states.

 

And next time, please refrain from posting misinformation.

The link you are posting is from an organisation based in Florida. I would say it has the same credibility as the American website which claimed the bushfires of 2019-2020 were 90% caused by arson.

I would have thought Americans have enough problems of their own, without making up BS about other countries.

[Chomper Higgot]

22 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Well, then all those people should consult with their individual doctors and not worry about what a bunch of impatient anonymous forum members (or anybody else) thinks.

You’ll not get an argument from me against people seeking medical advice from their doctor, I frequently make the comment myself.

 

But this is an anonymous Internet forum and like it or not, what people read online impacts their thoughts.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

No.  Overweight and Obese people are.  2.8 million deaths annually.  
 

https://www.who.int/news-room/facts-in-pictures/detail/6-facts-on-obesity
 

Of the 5.5 million global Covid 19 deaths, how many were overweight or obese?

 

Perhaps there should be mandates on peoples weights?  Forced dietary restrictions if over a 24 BMI?

No question obesity is a contributing factor in COVID deaths. People can mostly choose whether to be fat or thin, coronavirus is not a choice.

 

BMI has been discarded by most knowledgeable sporting bodies as a measure of obesity, usually skin fold tests are used.

Midfielders in Australian Rules football usually run 12 - 15 km in a 1 hour match. Most would fail a 24 BMI miserably, because muscle is heavier than fat.

 

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

The link you are posting is from an organisation based in Florida. I would say it has the same credibility as the American website which claimed the bushfires of 2019-2020 were 90% caused by arson.

I would have thought Americans have enough problems of their own, without making up BS about other countries.

You should back your claims with verifiable facts.  You haven’t.  

[Airalee]

45 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

No question obesity is a contributing factor in COVID deaths. People can mostly choose whether to be fat or thin, coronavirus is not a choice.

 

BMI has been discarded by most knowledgeable sporting bodies as a measure of obesity, usually skin fold tests are used.

Midfielders in Australian Rules football usually run 12 - 15 km in a 1 hour match. Most would fail a 24 BMI miserably, because muscle is heavier than fat.

 

1.  You’re not a football player.

2. Using professional athletes as a basis does not represent the general public.

 

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, Airalee said:

You should back your claims with verifiable facts.  You haven’t.  

This data relates to the Delta variant outbreak in NSW. It contradicts the data posted by some "factcheck" site which is based 15,000 km from Sydney.

 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/in-focus/covid-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

 

The way I read it, one is 16 times more likely to die of COVID if unvaccinated, and just under 6 times more likely to require hospitalisation.

 

Math is obviously not your strong suit. If 90% of the population is vaccinated, and 6 times LESS likely to require hospitalisation, what does that say about the unvaccinated?

 

Over to you.

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Lacessit

[CG1 Blue]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Australia reported a record high of COVID-19 deaths Tuesday, and its second-largest state declared an emergency in hospitals to cope with surging patient admissions and a staffing shortage due to the coronavirus.

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-business-australia-victoria-f14fb8c8819d5d2adb7eaf789b2a8a5e

Wasn't it inevitable that Australia would be suffering at this stage while many other countries are coming out of the pandemic?

They essentially delayed the onset of the pandemic by closing the country down, so they may have a couple of years of pain to go through now.

 

I hope not, and perhaps with Omicron being less harmful it won't be as bad as it might have been.  

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

Wasn't it inevitable that Australia would be suffering at this stage while many other countries are coming out of the pandemic?

They essentially delayed the onset of the pandemic by closing the country down, so they may have a couple of years of pain to go through now.

 

I hope not, and perhaps with Omicron being less harmful it won't be as bad as it might have been.  

I think we traded a very painful experience from rampant delta infections without vaccines for a less painful omicron experience now. It was under control until the government lost control of it. WA still more or less has it under control by not opening up borders without quarantine.

[Airalee]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

This data relates to the Delta variant outbreak in NSW. It contradicts the data posted by some "factcheck" site which is based 15,000 km from Sydney.

 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/in-focus/covid-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

 

The way I read it, one is 16 times more likely to die of COVID if unvaccinated, and just under 6 times more likely to require hospitalisation.

 

Over to you.

 

 

 

Bring current data to the table.  Not data from June-October of last year.

 

here’s the current data.

 

You lose.

https://aci.health.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/698388/20220104-COVID-19-Monitor.pdf

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Wasn't it inevitable that Australia would be suffering at this stage while many other countries are coming out of the pandemic?

They essentially delayed the onset of the pandemic by closing the country down, so they may have a couple of years of pain to go through now.

 

I hope not, and perhaps with Omicron being less harmful it won't be as bad as it might have been.  

It's a natural progression of viruses to mutate to less harmful variants. I'm quite hopeful COVID will become no worse than seasonal flu in a couple of years.

I've been vaccinated for flu about 30 years in a row now, haven't had it since my first bout before being vaccinated. Perhaps common sense will eventually prevail with COVID too.

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Bring current data to the table.  Not data from June-October of last year.

 

here’s the current data.

 

You lose.

https://aci.health.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/698388/20220104-COVID-19-Monitor.pdf

 

 

 

From that data 20% of the population ( unvaccinated ) is contributing 30% of the hospitalisations in NSW. Just under 50% of the ICU patients come from the same 20%. That's the omicron wave, and it's early days. The Delta variant was much worse.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vaccination+rate+nsw+percentage

Statisticians and scientists don't usually draw conclusions from a 7-day average, they want much longer time periods and bigger sample sizes. You can, evidently you know better. I'd ask you to post your scientific/medical credentials, but there's no way to fact check them.

 

Santayana once said those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. You are on track.

 

[rattlesnake]

What the article does not say is that the goalposts are always moving regarding who is considered vaccinated. In France, lots of double-jabbed people are now considered unvaccinated because they haven't had their third jab. And with a fourth jab already in the works, frustration and anger is increasing as this is not what people were promised one year ago when the vaccination campaign kicked off. So when Macron says he wants to p**s off the unvaccinated, that not only includes those who never took any jab, it will also include anyone who ceases to take booser shots at any point, so it is the French people as a whole he is p**sing off.

 

He also said that unvaccinated people were no longer citizens. This statement is incredible and unheard of in a so-called "democracy", as it means a) that the state decides what is good for us and we must comply in order to remain citizens and b) that anybody can fall into the "non-citizen" category at any time.

[MrJ2U]

15 hours ago, cdemundo said:

bad feelings against the unvaccinated.

You mean those morons we call "antivaxers"?

 

Looks like that Tennis player won't be playing in the French Open either.

 

Good!

Edited January 18, 2022 by onthedarkside
flame comment removed

[Lacessit]

Analysis of NSW omicron data, 7 day average, as at January 2.

I am using the most conservative vaccination rate of 80%, it would be an even greater disparity if I used 90%.

 

If you are unvaccinated and infected with COVID, you are twice as likely to need hospitalisation, and 4 times more likely to need an ICU.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Lacessit

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

What the article does not say is that the goalposts are always moving regarding who is considered vaccinated. In France, lots of double-jabbed people are now considered unvaccinated because they haven't had their third jab. And with a fourth jab already in the works, frustration and anger is increasing as this is not what people were promised one year ago when the vaccination campaign kicked off. So when Macron says he wants to p**s off the unvaccinated, that not only includes those who never took any jab, it will also include anyone who ceases to take booser shots at any point, so it is the French people as a whole he is p**sing off.

 

He also said that unvaccinated people were no longer citizens. This statement is incredible and unheard of in a so-called "democracy", as it means a) that the state decides what is good for us and we must comply in order to remain citizens and b) that anybody can fall into the "non-citizen" category at any time.

I guess he was being kind. It just shows how morally repugnant anti vaxers are in the real world. There's no excuse for such anti social behaviour. They are not acting out of a well founded conviction, it's just politically motivated. As for the goal posts moving, did anyone suggest they should stay in one place or rather was it that the world would need to be guided by the eventualities?

[MrJ2U]

51 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

become no worse than seasonal flu in a couple of years

"How many people die of the flu each year, on average?

According to data collected by the CDC from 2010 to 2020, the agency estimates that the flu has caused 12,000–52,000 deaths annually. During that time, the flu also caused 9 million–41 million illnesses, and 140,000–710,000 hospitalizations. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that the flu kills 290,000 to 650,000 people per year. "

 

Actually you should be getting a flu vaccine every year.

 

But thats up to you.

 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

"How many people die of the flu each year, on average?

According to data collected by the CDC from 2010 to 2020, the agency estimates that the flu has caused 12,000–52,000 deaths annually. During that time, the flu also caused 9 million–41 million illnesses, and 140,000–710,000 hospitalizations. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that the flu kills 290,000 to 650,000 people per year. "

 

Actually you should be getting a flu vaccine every year.

 

But thats up to you.

 

I think you'll find in 2021, flu has basically disappeared from view.

In about 2 years COVID has killed 5.5 million people, so it is more serious than flu.

The other factor, which incapacitates supply chains as well as people, is "long COVID". Flu does not result in long-lasting fatigue and memory problems, two weeks and it's over.

The data is saying "long Covid" is far more prevalent in the unvaccinated. It beats me why anti-vaxxers can't grasp this simple statistic.

 

Yes, I do have flu shots yearly - twice a year in Thailand.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

From that data 20% of the population ( unvaccinated ) is contributing 30% of the hospitalisations in NSW. Just under 50% of the ICU patients come from the same 20%. That's the omicron wave, and it's early days. The Delta variant was much worse.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=vaccination+rate+nsw+percentage

Statisticians and scientists don't usually draw conclusions from a 7-day average, they want much longer time periods and bigger sample sizes. You can, evidently you know better. I'd ask you to post your scientific/medical credentials, but there's no way to fact check them.

 

Santayana once said those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. You are on track.

 

Your claim of 90% of the people hospitalized being unvaccinated was wrong.

 

Accept it and move on.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Airalee

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Your claim of 90% of the people hospitalized being unvaccinated was wrong.

 

Accept it and move on.

Perhaps but in Mississippi it's 86%.

 

Then there is this.

 

the data indeed confirms that unvaccinated people are 7.1 times more likely to be hospitalized than vaccinated people, and 13.8 times more likely to be in intensive care.

 

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/hospitalization-rates-confirm-covid-vaccines-benefits

 

https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/

 

All in all you wouldn't want to be unvaccinated.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

What the article does not say is that the goalposts are always moving regarding who is considered vaccinated. In France, lots of double-jabbed people are now considered unvaccinated because they haven't had their third jab. And with a fourth jab already in the works, frustration and anger is increasing as this is not what people were promised one year ago when the vaccination campaign kicked off. So when Macron says he wants to p**s off the unvaccinated, that not only includes those who never took any jab, it will also include anyone who ceases to take booser shots at any point, so it is the French people as a whole he is p**sing off.

 

He also said that unvaccinated people were no longer citizens. This statement is incredible and unheard of in a so-called "democracy", as it means a) that the state decides what is good for us and we must comply in order to remain citizens and b) that anybody can fall into the "non-citizen" category at any time.

“He also said that unvaccinated people were no longer citizens.”

link please

[onthedarkside]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“He also said that unvaccinated people were no longer citizens.”

link please

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/05/1070573184/france-emmanuel-macron-covid-unvaccinated-remarks

 

"Macron also called unvaccinated people "irresponsible" and said such people "are no longer citizens."

 

And

 

https://www.newsweek.com/french-president-emmanuel-macron-says-someone-who-refuses-covid-vaccine-not-citizen-1665669

 

I'm assuming from reading, his comment above was more rhetorical than meant literally.

 

[placeholder]

13 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

What was sold to the public was that these vaccines would stop transmission and end the pandemic. That was why the world has jumped onto this idea of vaccines mandates, vaccinations to enter countries etc...

 

At best you can say these are temporary treatments which require multiple shots PER YEAR. None of this justifies the talk about mandates. Thus stop the shilling for these medical products and either get your shots or shut up about it.

Really, that was what was sold to the public? What public health authorities claimed that? Stop making things up.

The fact is that these vaccines dramatically reduce the death rate for those who have been vaccinated and the rate of serious illness.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Airalee said:

But the facts (numbers) are saying something different.

 

Let’s look at New South Wales (population 8.166 million)

 

 “2,030 COVID-19 patients were hospitalized in New South Wales. Of those patients, 28.8% were unvaccinated and 68.9% were fully vaccinated.”

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/14/blog-posting/australia-vaccination-status-hospitalized-covid-19/

 

2030 in the hospital out of 8,166,000.  That’s one out of every (over) 4,000 people.  Insignificant.

 

Feel free to pull up the statistics for the other states.

 

And next time, please refrain from posting misinformation.

"2030 in the hospital out of 8,166,000.  That’s one out of every (over) 4,000 people.  Insignificant."

 

You seem to have a real problem grasping the significance of that 2030 hospitalized people.. What you're claiming. is nonsense. How does something as arbitrary as a current snapshot of hospitalizations reflect the consequences of an entire course of a disease or even a variant. The significant number is how many people out of the entire population have been hospitalized plus those who are currently hospitalized over the course of the disease or variant. Do you understand that this number of 2030 does not include those who have been hospitalized but no longer are?  And of course, that total will still be increasing over time.

 

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Airalee said:

Wrong.

 

"You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations,"

 

"If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in the ICU unit, and you’re not going to die."

 

-Joe Biden

 

 

Such nonsense. A non-expert, one notoriously prone to gaffes says something once and you elevate that to an official stance. Has that been repeated? Has the CDC endorsed it?

"During an unscripted CNN town hall on July 21, Biden falsely stated that those who had been vaccinated would not get COVID, be hospitalized, or end up in an ICU and die. Here are the relevant quotes from CNN’s transcript of the event, which was anchored by Don Lemon (emphasis added): "

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-if-vaccinated-wont-get-covid/

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Wasn't it inevitable that Australia would be suffering at this stage while many other countries are coming out of the pandemic?

They essentially delayed the onset of the pandemic by closing the country down, so they may have a couple of years of pain to go through now.

 

I hope not, and perhaps with Omicron being less harmful it won't be as bad as it might have been.  

What " inevitable suffering?" What is the percentage of covid deaths Australia is currently experiencing compared to the USA?

[placeholder]

15 hours ago, Henryford said:

Standard tactic from dictators, when things are bad in the country try to put the blame on a small minority.

No. Dictators  falsely blame certain minorities for problems. The case against those who refuse to be vaccinated is backed not by lies but by a branch of science called epidemiology. You should look it up.

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No. Dictators  falsely blame certain minorities for problems. The case against those who refuse to be vaccinated is backed not by lies but by a branch of science called epidemiology. You should look it up.

Also when identifying a minority to persecute, it's good have a group that can easily be identified, like skin color.