Retirement in Thailand for low and mid level budget expats -- is the party really over?

[Chris.B]

1 hour ago, meechai said:

Give it up everyone & their brother knew it was 99% BS

I didn't. ????

[Jingthing]

Look we've done the U.S. ending income letters (long ago history now) can of worms thing to death.

That's only a small aspect of this general topic.

Can we move on and agree to disagree?

 

What do people think about my very, very rough income level classifications (other than complaining that they were expressed in USD)?

[bbko]

On 2/11/2022 at 1:14 PM, spidermike007 said:

I could go on and on, all day long. I live at a level here, that I would never be able to live at, in the US, in most of Europe, in Oz, or Canada.

But in my home country (US) I'm allowed to work and earn money that would offset the higher prices for the things you listed.

[spidermike007]

51 minutes ago, bbko said:

But in my home country (US) I'm allowed to work and earn money that would offset the higher prices for the things you listed.

True. But, you have to admit that inflation in the US is simply staggering at this time. Prices on alot of stuff are insane. Especially labor. People say it is about supply chain issues, and labor shortages. Though those are factors, I believe it is more about corporate gouging. 

[Whale]

On 2/12/2022 at 10:44 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Is that NOW? If so, do you expect it to remain cheap after covid is over and things get back to some sort of normal?

My assumption is that inflation will hit everywhere, more so those countries using or pegging major currencies. They have had a house a few years but thought of me as free security and I thought of it as free accommodation. As long as hay does not go up in price I should be OK, its a donkey ride to the next village. 

 

[Whale]

 What are you all wasting your time spent before you die arguing about the income letters. It's over, gone, done and dusted.

[Lacessit]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Just stop it!

I never claimed there weren't some that lied.

Also I didn't call.you a liar.

I said stop lying.

Not the same thing.

So you know three people. Big whoop. Simply anecdotal.

 

I don't know what parallel universe of semantics you inhabit; when someone tells me to stop lying they are calling me a liar.

On ignore now, should have done it earlier.

[Caldera]

What's with all the silly income letter back and forth polluting this thread. It's completely irrelevant, that change happened many years ago. Those affected are either long gone or adapted (by meeting the new requirements or by using an agent). 

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't know what parallel universe of semantics you inhabit; when someone tells me to stop lying they are calling me a liar.

On ignore now, should have done it earlier.

Good!

Every human being lies.

But not all the time.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/12/2022 at 7:53 PM, rumak said:

My daughter spent quite a few years practicing the art of using big words.   She also now can claim to have "doctor"  in front of her name.

Looking back,  she realizes that all those years were basically a lot of BS,  and the "academics"  she knew were mostly all talk .  

Usually when I read these forums It is fairly easy to sort  the "all talk"  posters , the ones that have their "expert opinions"  from living in tourist areas and never learning from life experience.

After a few decades here I still think the cost of living is very very cheap compared to the West.   The common people are still much more easygoing and non confrontational to others who do not yell and become arrogant.    Food is a bargain still when one shops and cooks at home.    A good partner is easier to find than before (if one can speak some thai and does not settle for the  "you hansum man.   take care me"  option.  

Of course,  the real prerequisite to enjoying the party is to take a good look in the mirror before going out shopping .????

OMG. Don't talk common sense, as it'll upset those that are convinced that anywhere else is better than LOS, despite all the evidence saying that LOS is as good as it gets in these mad days.

If sensible traffic and ever multiplying government regulations/ restrictions were a good thing I'd be in paradise right now, but somehow I'd rather be livin' the dream in LOS.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Whale said:

My assumption is that inflation will hit everywhere, more so those countries using or pegging major currencies. They have had a house a few years but thought of me as free security and I thought of it as free accommodation. As long as hay does not go up in price I should be OK, its a donkey ride to the next village. 

 

Hay? LOL. Climate change may well make hay a rare commodity and the price rises accordingly.

Inflation will no doubt occur everywhere ( perhaps I'll finally get some actual interest on my savings ), but the real thing to consider is whether pensions will increase to compensate. From where I sit, I doubt it.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:19 PM, connda said:

There are other parts of the world where the living is easier and the food much better and the women just as cute. 

Not where I live. I haven't seen a cute female since I left Thailand.

[JustAnotherHun]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not where I live. I haven't seen a cute female since I left Thailand.

I don't know where you live but you might have to consult an ophthamologist ????

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherHun said:

I don't know where you live but you might have to consult an ophthamologist ????

I continuously misspell ophthalmologist too!  It's one of those darn Greek words.

[swissie]

On 2/11/2022 at 8:50 AM, Jingthing said:

Yeah the health care is probably the biggest issue for most.

Jepp. Emerging health problems are likely to be the main killer of "The tropical retirement dream". Choosing the "wrong partner" possibly coming in as a distant second.

Case in point: Used to live in rural Thailand on US$ 1600/month. Lacking nothing, I was a "happy camper". But a good health insurance (deserving that name) would have cost me between $ 400 to 500/month. Limited to the age of 70. I came to the conclusion: No will do!

So, I pulled up stakes and went back to my home country. Just in time. In the meantime, I ran up Hospital-Bills 2 times worth my assets. Had I stayed in Thailand, I would have been  wiped out financially.
The point is: When it comes to relocate to other exotic retirement heavens, the "health-issue" should be on top of the list of criteria that must be checked out beforehand. Unless willing and able to pay expensive health insurance premiums, the question must be: Can an Expat become part of the "National Health Scheme"? Yes/No. Usually, much lower premiums than other private providors.

Other criteria like "pristine beaches" and "the friendly natives" may become irrelevant, should a major "health problem" emerge.

Not incorporating this issue in future re-location plans is the equivalent of sitting down at a Las Vegas Roulette table. Old wisdom has it, that elderly folks should not sit at any Roulette tables anymore as their life span is not long enough to recover any losses.

[Grecian]

29 minutes ago, swissie said:

Jepp. Emerging health problems are likely to be the main killer of "The tropical retirement dream". Choosing the "wrong partner" possibly coming in as a distant second.

Case in point: Used to live in rural Thailand on US$ 1600/month. Lacking nothing, I was a "happy camper". But a good health insurance (deserving that name) would have cost me between $ 400 to 500/month. Limited to the age of 70. I came to the conclusion: No will do!

So, I pulled up stakes and went back to my home country. Just in time. In the meantime, I ran up Hospital-Bills 2 times worth my assets. Had I stayed in Thailand, I would have been  wiped out financially.
The point is: When it comes to relocate to other exotic retirement heavens, the "health-issue" should be on top of the list of criteria that must be checked out beforehand. Unless willing and able to pay expensive health insurance premiums, the question must be: Can an Expat become part of the "National Health Scheme"? Yes/No. Usually, much lower premiums than other private providors.

Other criteria like "pristine beaches" and "the friendly natives" may become irrelevant, should a major "health problem" emerge.

Not incorporating this issue in future re-location plans is the equivalent of sitting down at a Las Vegas Roulette table. Old wisdom has it, that elderly folks should not sit at any Roulette tables anymore as their life span is not long enough to recover any losses.

If you had been in Thailand how possible would it have been in your case to have gone back on hearing the medical diagnosis and how much would you have paid out following that route?

asking because I'm considering the risk analysis of staying in Thailand until I actually need healthcare rather than the moving back at 70 approach.

[Grecian]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

True. But, you have to admit that inflation in the US is simply staggering at this time. Prices on alot of stuff are insane. Especially labor. People say it is about supply chain issues, and labor shortages. Though those are factors, I believe it is more about corporate gouging. 

Corporate gauging!!!!

If you hire a self employed plumber in the states he is more reasonable than how a corporation like Wal-Mart sets their prices?

In the UK I find the corporations ok. It's the one man self employed tradesman that will happily bend me over and take revenge for my white middle class male privilege. Lol

[swissie]

25 minutes ago, Grecian said:

If you had been in Thailand how possible would it have been in your case to have gone back on hearing the medical diagnosis and how much would you have paid out following that route?

asking because I'm considering the risk analysis of staying in Thailand until I actually need healthcare rather than the moving back at 70 approach.

When I returned to my home country I was in good health. I returned based on "what if"?

3 months after my return my health problems evolved quickly. Fast enough, that no Airline wold have been willing to fly me back from Thailand to my home country.

- There is the thought, that when I get sick, I can always return to my home country in time for treatement. This only works if the illness emerges slowly. As far as I am concerned, my illness evolved very fast, with no chance "to fly back home in time".

[Chelseafan]

On 2/11/2022 at 6:06 AM, mokwit said:

"Desperate publicity about Brits stuck in Thai hospitals, dependent on crowd-funding to save their lives, has finally killed off the nonsense that the embassy will ride to the rescue.'

 

I just wasn't aware of the British Embassy riding to the rescue of anybody, ever.

 

And rightly so, it aint their job.

 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

[Chelseafan]

On 2/11/2022 at 6:48 AM, grain said:

I'm currently in Pattaya for a few days, first time here in close to 3 years, and yes, the grandads are sure here in large numbers, can't say I've noticed many of the younger monger guys who used to come in droves, nor any family groups, just all those grandads walking around in their shorts & singlets & sandals. I guess it's easier for them, being over 50 and getting retirement exts, and having pensions. 

I'm not surprised the younger guys aren't here, have you SEEN the <deleted> they have to go through to get in ? If I were them I'd be looking for somewhere else to go.

 

[Albert Zweistein]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:48 AM, grain said:

I'm currently in Pattaya for a few days, first time here in close to 3 years, and yes, the grandads are sure here in large numbers, can't say I've noticed many of the younger monger guys who used to come in droves, nor any family groups, just all those grandads walking around in their shorts & singlets & sandals. I guess it's easier for them, being over 50 and getting retirement exts, and having pensions. 

Whats wrong with granddads walking around in shorts/singlets and sandals ? Probably thats why they escaped from the cold winter. Do you want them to walk around in trousers and sweaters and maybe an icecap on their heads ?

My self I love to walk around in shorts and sandals but always in shirts, not singlets.

And never in Pattaya, in 30 + times Thailand been there only once.

My point is that you could have just mentioned granddads and not what they are wearing.

Seems you are envious.

[meechai]

18 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Agent can handle the Ins proof as well. When I had an agent do my 12 mos extension for OA it cost 3000 tbh for health ins.

Probably as TIT after all ????

 

[meechai]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Stop insulting me personally!

Your attacks are both disgusting and WRONG. 

Again the topic is stated in the OP.

I AM NOT THE TOPIC.

Never said you were the topic nor did I attack you. I am just agreeing with many who knew & stated here that the US Consulate raise your hand & swear you have XX money was mostly BS & abused to the hilt.

 

I think you forget we had this conversation years ago before the income verification ended. I said the loop hole would be closed you said never

 

I even said the US consulate should simply give the sworn to have income every month to the IRS then see how it would go. There would be a lot of tax penalties suddenly appearing on unclaimed income...tho it didn't exists anyway...But I think you have forgotten that conversation?

 

In any case it came true & loophole was closed

 

[meechai]

18 hours ago, Chris.B said:

I didn't. ????

Well I think you would be in the minority on that ????

 

But at the end of the day common sense suggests most who complained never had the funds

Because it was no big deal when Imm said prove it yourself without the get out of showing it paper from the US consulate

 

Those folks just said oh ok here...Was not a big deal then or now

 

[meechai]

As to Health Insurance....I 101% believe it will soon be mandatory as part of any long term visa extension

 

The writing was on the wall for some time & C19 just gave it the final push it needed

 

But it is not all bad...Folks rightfully are wary of Thai health but...You can buy International insurance for nearly teh same & they do not cancel you or have a waiting period or cut you off after 75

 

Here are two samples to compare Thai to Int insurance given to me by Wim at AA Insurance Brokers

 

April International $2400 starting at age 61 to $3200 till age 75 per year is not bad at all is it? For $500k USD coverage

 

 

[rumak]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

OMG. Don't talk common sense, as it'll upset those that are convinced that anywhere else is better than LOS, despite all the evidence saying that LOS is as good as it gets in these mad days.

If sensible traffic and ever multiplying government regulations/ restrictions were a good thing I'd be in paradise right now, but somehow I'd rather be livin' the dream in LOS.

Funny thing is .... i once thought about moving to kanada , since that is where my thai daughter married and settled.   Glad i did not make THAT mistake.   I have lived my dreams here in LOS,  that's for sure.    Of course some nightmares as well   haha  that is what adventure encompasses.    Hope i can head to the beach again for smoke season... sorry we never met up there.

 

[EVENKEEL]

I would think a trip to the bank for account statement is easier than a trip to Embassy for letter.

[jerrymahoney]

We can accept applications from people 65 years or younger

 

https://lp.april-international.com/th/international-health-insurance/?keyword=International-Health-Insurance&header=for-Individuals-and-Families&bodytxt=solution-designed-for-expats-and-Thai-citizens&conjoin=an&source=Website

 

[meechai]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So given all that I can make a stab at guestimating rough levels.

 

Others would legitimately come up with very different numbers.

 

Monthly income

 

Under 800 USD  

Be afraid.  Be very afraid. 

 

LOWER

800 to 1300 USD

You're very vulnerable to life events, immigration changes

 

MIDDLE

1300 to 2500 USD

Still vulnerable but less so

IMO...Under $800 was never reality not for those who wanted health insurance & a better than 3500 baht a month room

Under $800 a month would be hard pressed to even visit Thailand for a month

(remember now you need 50k USD insurance to visit)

 

800-1300 USD possible but Thai style more than falang style

250 insurance + 250 rent leaves $800 or 26k baht ...do-able for many

 

1300-2500 should be fine for almost all who are not addicted to drinking/smoking/sexpatting

 

As to Immigration changes that is the true unknown

A few months back Malaysia my second home program had a real shock when the quadrupled their income requirements from RM10k to 40k

https://www.mm2h.com/new-rules-2021/

(there may have been updates but I have not looked as not interested in Malaysia...we have a home in Thailand)

 

But Yes Imm moving the goalposts is always a possibility in any foreign country that is not generous like the USA with their 2 then 10 year green cards allowing folks to live & work with a sense of security in that regard