Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[sammieuk1]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hopefully the mods will leave this one up seeing as its fools day................

LOL X2????

[impulse]

57 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Then you should turn to the Russian press. The one where even the word "voina" (war) is prohibited to be used to describe the recent events. A lot of credibility to be found there. Just use "google translate" and you will know the TRUTH.

Quite often, when I think I know who the good guys are, it turns out they're just turds with better spin doctors.

[Hellfire]

Is the West really ready for the Ukraine's victory? Not sure. Many in the West would prefer Ukraine being defeated. Because, otherwise, they should face the numerous consequences: nuclear threats by crazy Vlad, Russia's deconstruction, serious global instability and so on. My opinion: deeply hedonistic West is not ready to face any of those scenarios. Prove me wrong.

[tgw]

6 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Is the West really ready for the Ukraine's victory? Not sure. Many in the West would prefer Ukraine being defeated. Because, otherwise, they should face the numerous consequences: nuclear threats by crazy Vlad, Russia's deconstruction, serious global instability and so on. My opinion: deeply hedonistic West is not ready to face any of those scenarios. Prove me wrong.

lol

yes, 90% of the West wants Ukraine to shove it to Vlad

[Chris.B]

1 minute ago, tgw said:

lol

yes, 90% of the West wants Ukraine to shove it to Vlad

I wouldn't count on France, Germany doesn't seem to be doing much too. ????

 

[Hellfire]

3 minutes ago, tgw said:

lol

yes, 90% of the West wants Ukraine to shove it to Vlad

It is not about words and proclamations but actions and the readiness to sacrifice (and to fight!). 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Video here of the actual strike within Russia by 2 helicopters from Ukraine:

 

Russia accuses Ukraine of helicopter strikes on fuel depot in Russian territory

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/01/europe/russia-ukraine-belgorod-fire-intl/index.html

[Hellfire]

I think Putin has a waste experience of corrupting the West, buying it with his oil and gas money. Somehow, he got an idea, the West doesn't really has any other values but "money" and "power". Democracy? Personal freedoms and individual rights?  Everything was proved to be fake in his eyes. Was he right? Or, may be, he missed something and there is still something real in the "western values" and not just empty words? A million dollar question which will define the world's future.

 

 

 

 

 

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Is the West really ready for the Ukraine's victory? Not sure. Many in the West would prefer Ukraine being defeated. Because, otherwise, they should face the numerous consequences: nuclear threats by crazy Vlad, Russia's deconstruction, serious global instability and so on. My opinion: deeply hedonistic West is not ready to face any of those scenarios. Prove me wrong.

"nuclear threats by crazy Vlad"

 

We already have them.

 

"Russia's deconstruction"

 

I can't see a Ukrainian victory causing that, but it might (fingers crossed) leading to crazy Vlad being removed from office.

 

"serious global instability"

 

Again, we already have that.  Do you think that letting Russia get away with invading neighboring countries will somehow lead to global stability?

 

Most westerners realize that the consequences of letting Putin win are much worse than the consequences of him losing.

[scubascuba3]

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

Of the 3 demands Putin made before the invasion, 2 of them involved current and former Ukraine citizens that apparently don't want to be part of Ukraine.   Crimea and Donbas.  You figure that may be due to coming up on the short end of the corruption stick again and again? 

 

This mess didn't start with the invasion.  It's been brewing for decades.  Kinda like WW2.

On what do you base your assumption that the majority of citizens in Crimea and Donbas didn't/don't want to be part of Ukraine?  Were they ever allowed to express their preference in a fair, independently monitored election?

 

I've read reports that suggest that the warlords supporting Russia in Donbas are gangsters who expect to come out well ahead in the corruption stick by doing so..  I can't prove it, but you can't prove your speculation either.  After all, Russia is more corrupt than Ukraine

 

Yes, Russia has been brewing this mess for decades.  It has been working to keep Ukraine a profitable part of the Russian kleptocracy since Putin came to power.

[RJRS1301]

China accused of launching cyber-attacks on Ukraine before Russian invasion

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/apr/01/china-accused-of-launching-cyber-attacks-on-ukraine-before-russian-invasion?utm_term=624792066995262b8c7e0b56d12c44f1&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTAU_email

[RJRS1301]

Sean Penn calls for billionaire to step up and buy aircraft for Ukraine

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/apr/01/sean-penn-calls-for-billionaire-to-step-up-and-buy-aircraft-for-ukraine?utm_term=624792066995262b8c7e0b56d12c44f1&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTAU_email

 

Perhaps they could get them from Amazon ??

[ozimoron]

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned his people early Saturday that retreating Russian forces were creating “a complete disaster” outside the capital as they leave mines across “the whole territory,” even around homes and corpses.

He issued the warning as the humanitarian crisis in the encircled city of Mariupol deepened, with Russian forces blocking evacuation operations for the second day in a row

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-europe-8482e237420a33a17bfb4e613e75bb66

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned his people early Saturday that retreating Russian forces were creating “a complete disaster” outside the capital as they leave mines across “the whole territory,” even around homes and corpses.

He issued the warning as the humanitarian crisis in the encircled city of Mariupol deepened, with Russian forces blocking evacuation operations for the second day in a row

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-europe-8482e237420a33a17bfb4e613e75bb66

Adding to that.  What is also happening in the retreat is evidence of the war crimes they committed including slaughtering and burning innocent civilians who are left in the roads.

 

BBC: Ukraine war: Gruesome evidence points to war crimes on road outside Kyiv

 

Some of the evidence the BBC gathered is too disturbing to show in full. Here a dead man has been covered by rubber tyres. Attempts have been made to destroy the other bodies. Some have been left to rot where they were killed. But other corpses have been piled up and surrounded by tyres. Charred clothing indicates attempts were made to set fires around them. Tyres are flammable and must have been placed there as an accelerant.

 

 

Separate & further evidence in this twitter video:

"It's almost as if Russians have withdrawn for all the world to see the horrors they left behind"

https://twitter.com/olgatokariuk/status/1509992795137789955

 

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and replies have been removed, topic is about the invasion of Ukraine and what is happening on the ground on a daily basis, please also see the header of this forum:

 

UK & Europe Topics and events

For topics and events related to the UK and Europe.  No Political discussions.

 

[RJRS1301]

Believe that you really would be deluded

 

Russia’s Deputy Defence Minister Alexander Fomin said the Kremlin was withdrawing from Kyiv and Chernihiv to “increase mutual trust and create conditions for further negotiations.”

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-is-regrouping-for-more-brutal-attacks-on-ukraine/news-story/ec5d297280f06a5ffec3ad909d065305

 

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Is the West really ready for the Ukraine's victory? Not sure. Many in the West would prefer Ukraine being defeated. Because, otherwise, they should face the numerous consequences: nuclear threats by crazy Vlad, Russia's deconstruction, serious global instability and so on. My opinion: deeply hedonistic West is not ready to face any of those scenarios. Prove me wrong.

OK. You provide the time machine and I will.

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

to “increase mutual trust and create conditions for further negotiations.”

Yes, I just stabbed you in the back 26 times, stole your land, burned your house down, raped your sisters, killed your brothers and kidnapped a whole bunch of the rest of your family, but I assure you that you can trust me from now on. Scout’s honor.

[tgw]

finally a big question I had about the fall of Kherson and its bridge has been answered:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/29/2088926/-Ukraine-update-How-did-Kherson-fall-so-quickly-Betrayal-looks-like-a-good-bet

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zelensky-sacks-traitor-generals-wbqkrr06r

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20220329212559/https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/26/kherson

use google translate on this one

the original page has been censored, but can be obtained via wayback machine

[RJRS1301]

Putin may be ‘playing a long game’ on the cyber front, with attacks under way but not fully understood

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/01/russia-ukraine-cyberwar

[JetsetBkk]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

...

Some of the evidence the BBC gathered is too disturbing to show in full...

 

...

 

What a horrific video from the BBC. I wonder if they will also show the video of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russian POWs in the legs as they exit a small van?

[friendofthai]

16 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Is the West really ready for the Ukraine's victory? Not sure. Many in the West would prefer Ukraine being defeated. Because, otherwise, they should face the numerous consequences: nuclear threats by crazy Vlad, Russia's deconstruction, serious global instability and so on. My opinion: deeply hedonistic West is not ready to face any of those scenarios. Prove me wrong.

This is a war between Russia and the West to say the truth. Of course, it is much better for the West to win this war than to lose. This like 2+2=4

[JetsetBkk]

2 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

What a horrific video from the BBC. I wonder if they will also show the video of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russian POWs in the legs as they exit a small van?

I beg the BBC's pardon. They have posted about it: https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

 

[RJRS1301]

8 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

What a horrific video from the BBC. I wonder if they will also show the video of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russian POWs in the legs as they exit a small van?

Do you have any proof to present regarding your claim?
 

[RJRS1301]

7 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

I beg the BBC's pardon. They have posted about it: https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

 

The footage - which is too graphic to show in full - purports to show a number of captured soldiers lying on the ground. Some have bags over their heads, and many appear to be bleeding from leg wounds. It is not clear how or when they were injured.

The prisoners are questioned by their captors, asking them about their units and activities in the area.

 

Purports to show, is not proof.

 

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

I beg the BBC's pardon. They have posted about it: https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

 

Yes I was going to send you that link. Great that the BBC shows both sides of the coin unlike the censored Russian media

[Chris.B]

34 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

What a horrific video from the BBC. I wonder if they will also show the video of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russian POWs in the legs as they exit a small van?

Link?? ????

[Bkk Brian]

There are crazies on Russian TV daily spouting their rhetoric but it also extends to education.

 

Andrei Sidorov of Moscow State University who happens to be the Dean of the School of World Politics dept said this:

 

"I am not sure that #Ukraine, like many other small states, should retain its #sovereignty after our special operation. In today's world, sovereignty is based, whether we like it or not, on force".

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

This is a war between Russia and the West to say the truth. Of course, it is much better for the West to win this war than to lose. This like 2+2=4

Its as close to a world war as we've gotten since WW2.