Don't mention the war?

[thaibeachlovers]

53 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'd suggest it's a lot higher than the Russians will ever admit. Killing 7 Russian generals is unprecedented, if true.

I found this article interesting, probably the US knows better than anyone else what the true state of play is.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-31/us-intelligence-services-know-a-lot-about-putin-and-ukraine/100949892

If true.

 

The relevant words. It's unusual for generals to be close enough to the front to be killed.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If true.

 

The relevant words. It's unusual for generals to be close enough to the front to be killed.

The explanation I have heard is the Russian advances have been so stymied generals are going up to the front line to try and sort out the mess.

They have to wear their rank insignia, otherwise who is going to obey them? That makes them a sitting duck and priority target for snipers and shoulder-fired missiles.

[Saanim]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not so. I heard ( think on Al Jazeera ) that they admitted Russian casualties were over 1,000 ( I don't remember exact number ) some days ago. I have no idea of the real number of casualties on either side.

 

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I'd suggest it's a lot higher than the Russians will ever admit. Killing 7 Russian generals is unprecedented, if true.

I found this article interesting, probably the US knows better than anyone else what the true state of play is.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-31/us-intelligence-services-know-a-lot-about-putin-and-ukraine/100949892

Then the Russian casualties are nearly the same as the civilian deaths? Although some say:

 

Russia could have lost as many as 15,000 troops in Ukraine war, NATO official estimates

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/24/russia-troops-casualties-nato-ukraine/

 

(did they include also the casualties of Donbass as reported by intl. agencies?)  

 

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 1,151 civilian deaths during Russia's military attack on Ukraine as of March 27, 2022. Of them, 103 were children. Furthermore, 1,824 people were reported to have been injured. However, OHCHR specified that the real numbers could be higher.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/

 

Anyway, when considering one months of the war and the completely destroyed towns, one would expect much more civilian casualties. (For instance in the last Gaza bombing 2020 it was much more within 5 days, however, there was no ground fighting, no humanitarian corridor, just missiles firework,).

 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, Saanim said:

 

Then the Russian casualties are nearly the same as the civilian deaths? Although some say:

 

Russia could have lost as many as 15,000 troops in Ukraine war, NATO official estimates

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/24/russia-troops-casualties-nato-ukraine/

(how does NATO know? Are they there? Or did they include also the casualties of Donbass as reported by intl. agencies?)  

 

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 1,151 civilian deaths during Russia's military attack on Ukraine as of March 27, 2022. Of them, 103 were children. Furthermore, 1,824 people were reported to have been injured. However, OHCHR specified that the real numbers could be higher.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/

 

Anyway, when considering one months of the war and the completely destroyed towns, one would expect much more civilian casualties. (For instance in the last Gaza bombing 2020 it was much more within 5 days, however, there was no ground fighting, no humanitarian corridor, just missiles firework,).

 

I think you are missing the 4 million Ukrainian civilians who are refugees, perhaps that may explain the comparatively low number.

The Russians are using missiles and bombs, but at some point ground troops have to go in to take and hold a city.

Trying to clear a city full of armed Ukrainians with untrained conscripts is not a recipe for success. It takes highly trained urban warfare specialists, which the Russians don't seem to have. Where are the Spetznaz? Perhaps that's why the purported death toll is so high.

[Bkk Brian]

28 minutes ago, Saanim said:

 

Then the Russian casualties are nearly the same as the civilian deaths? Although some say:

 

Russia could have lost as many as 15,000 troops in Ukraine war, NATO official estimates

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/24/russia-troops-casualties-nato-ukraine/

 

(did they include also the casualties of Donbass as reported by intl. agencies?)  

 

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 1,151 civilian deaths during Russia's military attack on Ukraine as of March 27, 2022. Of them, 103 were children. Furthermore, 1,824 people were reported to have been injured. However, OHCHR specified that the real numbers could be higher.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/

 

Anyway, when considering one months of the war and the completely destroyed towns, one would expect much more civilian casualties. (For instance in the last Gaza bombing 2020 it was much more within 5 days, however, there was no ground fighting, no humanitarian corridor, just missiles firework,).

 

Yet we all know including OHCHR that the civilian death figures are widely under counted when so many have literally been buried in gardens, by roadsides and in mass graves. It will be many months before true figures can be recorded, in the mean time the deaths keep rising.

 

Human Rights Watch: Over 3,000 civilians may have been killed in Mariupol

 

A human rights group says a local official told it that more than 3,000 civilians may have been killed in Russia's attacks on the eastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol. The United States based-group Human Rights Watch released a report on Monday.

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I think you are missing the 4 million Ukrainian civilians who are refugees, perhaps that may explain the comparatively low number.

In fact, I am not missing the 4 million refugees, in contrary. I have just missed them in the other wars...

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yet we all know including OHCHR that the civilian death figures are widely under counted when so many have literally been buried in gardens, by roadsides and in mass graves. It will be many months before true figures can be recorded, in the mean time the deaths keep rising.

 

Human Rights Watch: Over 3,000 civilians may have been killed in Mariupol

 

A human rights group says a local official told it that more than 3,000 civilians may have been killed in Russia's attacks on the eastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol. The United States based-group Human Rights Watch released a report on Monday.

Thousands of Civilians in Mariupol May Have Died in Past Month - UN Tells Reuters

 

GENEVA (Reuters) - Thousands of civilians may have died in the besieged port city of Mariupol in southern Ukraine since bombing began four weeks ago, the head of the U.N. human rights mission told Reuters on Tuesday, providing its first estimate.

 

Nearly 5,000 people, including about 210 children, have been killed in Mariupol since Russian forces laid siege to it a month ago, a spokesperson for Mayor Vadym Boichenko said on Monday.

[Saanim]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Thousands of Civilians in Mariupol May Have Died in Past Month - UN Tells Reuters

 

GENEVA (Reuters) - Thousands of civilians may have died in the besieged port city of Mariupol in southern Ukraine since bombing began four weeks ago, the head of the U.N. human rights mission told Reuters on Tuesday, providing its first estimate.

 

Nearly 5,000 people, including about 210 children, have been killed in Mariupol since Russian forces laid siege to it a month ago, a spokesperson for Mayor Vadym Boichenko said on Monday.

Quite difficult to understand why the people of Mariupol had not been enabled to get into the humanitarian corridors, similarly as the other refugees (M4+).  

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Quite difficult to understand why the people of Mariupol had not been enabled to get into the humanitarian corridors, similarly as the other refugees (M4+).  

Maybe it has not occurred to you it was because the Russians would not let them.

[Will B Good]

12 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Quite difficult to understand why the people of Mariupol had not been enabled to get into the humanitarian corridors, similarly as the other refugees (M4+).  

LVIV, Ukraine (AP) — Renewed efforts to rescue civilians from increasingly dire conditions in besieged and bombarded Ukrainian cities were underway Wednesday. Days of shelling have largely cut residents of the southern city of Mariupol off from the outside world and forced them to scavenge for food and water.

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Quite difficult to understand why the people of Mariupol had not been enabled to get into the humanitarian corridors, similarly as the other refugees (M4+).  

Not really, just part of Putin's killing and abduction machine

 

Russia accused of shelling Mariupol evacuation route as civilians flee Sumy

“The enemy has launched an attack heading exactly at the humanitarian corridor,” the Ukrainian defence ministry said on Facebook, adding that the Russian army “did not let children, women and elderly people leave the city”.

 

Ukraine says Russia forcibly relocated thousands from Mariupol. Here’s one dramatic account.

A young Ukrainian woman said she and her family were transferred to what the Russians called a ‘filtration camp’ before being sent to Russia

 

Convoy of 160 cars leaves besieged Mariupol as ceasefire allows first humanitarian corridor out 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

Putin is going to go down as reviled as Stalin, Pol Pot or Hitler ever were.

When one has nothing but yes-men around them, they will be told what they want to hear. Result is Putin has seriously miscalculated on multiple fronts.

 

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/europe-news/2022/03/31/ukraine-russia-east/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PM Extra - 20220331

[Saanim]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Maybe it has not occurred to you it was because the Russians would not let them.

A common sense does not get it: Why wouldn't they let them? Most of them are of Russian ethnics, unlike the majority of the other M4+ refugees and they travelled quite easily to the neighbour countries around. 

 

BTW, the Mariupol residents were under Ukraine command who kept them in cellars for weeks.   

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, Saanim said:

A common sense does not get it: Why wouldn't they let them? Most of them are of Russian ethnics, unlike the majority of the other M4+ refugees and they travelled quite easily to the neighbour countries around. 

 

BTW, the Mariupol residents were under Ukraine command who kept them in cellars for weeks.   

Common sense went out of the window when Putin attacked Ukraine. Better ask the Russians why they bombed to death 300 civilians sheltering in the threatre at Mariupol. Or  killing hundreds of civilians in the widespread indiscriminate shelling of apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, opera houses and theaters; forcibly deporting tens of thousands of residents of the besieged city of Mariupol to Russia; using cluster munitions and banned anti-personnel mines; and opening fire on peaceful protesters.

[Will B Good]

Just now, friendofthai said:

There are a lot of places in the world that have war - Yemen, Syria etc. There are also a lot of places that had war in the last 5 years. It is not easy to explain why the Thai media should scream about Ukraine 24 hours every day. This will reduce revenue from Z-tourists and Vlad supporters.

I think the difference is the potential for an all out war leading to a nuclear confrontation, which none of the other conflicts come close to.

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

I think the difference is the potential for an all out war leading to a nuclear confrontation, which none of the other conflicts come close to.

The difference is that the Western countries are in fact extensively involved into the conflict. But Thailand is not involved. So it is just one of the 100000 wars for Thailand. This is your war, not Thailand`s.

Nuclear war means that Russia and USA will flatten each other. Thailand will not participate in this for sure.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

There are a lot of places in the world that have war - Yemen, Syria etc. There are also a lot of places that had war in the last 5 years. It is not easy to explain why the Thai media should scream about Ukraine 24 hours every day. This will reduce revenue from Z-tourists and Vlad supporters.

Some Thai media has morals. Aside from Channel 5 that is.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

A common sense does not get it: Why wouldn't they let them? Most of them are of Russian ethnics, unlike the majority of the other M4+ refugees and they travelled quite easily to the neighbour countries around. 

 

BTW, the Mariupol residents were under Ukraine command who kept them in cellars for weeks.   

Unfortunately, it's fairly obvious your brand of common sense has confirmation and denial biases written all over it.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, friendofthai said:

The difference is that the Western countries are in fact extensively involved into the conflict. But Thailand is not involved. So it is just one of the 100000 wars for Thailand. This is your war, not Thailand`s.

Nuclear war means that Russia and USA will flatten each other. Thailand will not participate in this for sure.

Is Thailand on another planet?

 

 

 

https://futurism.com/the-byte/nuclear-war-us-russia

Nuclear War

A team of American climate scientists recently simulated what would happen if the United States and Russia attacked each other with all the nuclear weapons at their disposal — and it’s about as bad as you might expect.

According to their study, which was published in the Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, the attacks would lead to a multi-year nuclear winter. A blanket of soot would cover the entire planet within two weeks of launch, and it wouldn’t dissipate for about a decade.

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Unfortunately, it's fairly obvious your brand of common sense has confirmation and denial biases written all over it.

In case you do not have any arguments and facts you should refrain from personal attacks and better read more. For instance:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/29/europe/ukraine-azov-movement-far-right-intl-cmd/index.html

[Will B Good]

Just now, Saanim said:

In case you do not have any arguments and facts you should refrain from personal attacks and better read more. For instance:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/29/europe/ukraine-azov-movement-far-right-intl-cmd/index.html

A key section in the title I think......

 

"exploited by Putin"

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Saanim said:

In case you do not have any arguments and facts you should refrain from personal attacks and better read more. For instance:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/29/europe/ukraine-azov-movement-far-right-intl-cmd/index.html

 

If you regard what I have said as a personal attack, report it to the moderators. Don't forget to explain to them how what I have said is demeaning and/or abusive.

[Bkk Brian]

8 hours ago, Will B Good said:

LVIV, Ukraine (AP) — Renewed efforts to rescue civilians from increasingly dire conditions in besieged and bombarded Ukrainian cities were underway Wednesday. Days of shelling have largely cut residents of the southern city of Mariupol off from the outside world and forced them to scavenge for food and water.

AFP: Ukraine says it is sending dozens of buses to evacuate civilians from Mariupol after a Russian ceasefire announcement, but dismissed Kremlin promises to scale back attacks on the capital saying forces were simply regrouping to target the east

 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The explanation I have heard is the Russian advances have been so stymied generals are going up to the front line to try and sort out the mess.

They have to wear their rank insignia, otherwise who is going to obey them? That makes them a sitting duck and priority target for snipers and shoulder-fired missiles.

Given that I was actually in the military during a war ( though not in the fighting as not infantry or artillery ) I find that to be frankly ludicrous, unless the Russian army is as bad as is being made out on this thread and I doubt that.

Sounds like people are desperate to make up stuff about the enemy.

 

BTW, every army has "teething" problems in a war if they haven't had recent experience of action because the people with the knowledge have left, and theoretical instruction is no substitute for the real thing. Far as I know, the Russian army hasn't been in a proper war since Afghanistan.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Maybe it has not occurred to you it was because the Russians would not let them.

Do you have a link to a reputable source for that claim? A source not in involved in propaganda.

[Saanim]

8 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

AFP: Ukraine says it is sending dozens of buses to evacuate civilians from Mariupol after a Russian ceasefire announcement, but dismissed Kremlin promises to scale back attacks on the capital saying forces were simply regrouping to target the east

 

Ukraine sending 45 busses for 170,000 people...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mariupol-buses-evacuation-b2047940.html

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Will B Good said:

I think the difference is the potential for an all out war leading to a nuclear confrontation, which none of the other conflicts come close to.

Indeed, which is a very good reason for wiser heads to NOT get the west involved any more than it is already.

If it ever does come to use of nuclear weapons we all lose, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, friendofthai said:

The difference is that the Western countries are in fact extensively involved into the conflict. But Thailand is not involved. So it is just one of the 100000 wars for Thailand. This is your war, not Thailand`s.

Nuclear war means that Russia and USA will flatten each other. Thailand will not participate in this for sure.

Thailand may not participate as with almost every other country on the planet, but they will be as <deleted> as everyone else if the nukes get used. Hopefully wise heads are advising Joe and Boris and the French guy.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

Ukraine sending 45 busses for 170,000 people...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mariupol-buses-evacuation-b2047940.html

Common sense for me states that's a very wise move and if successfull it could be repeated considering:

 

"But The Independent understands there are still major logistical hurdles, including guarantees of safety, before the evacuation can go ahead."

 

The Red Cross who is there co ordinating said: “Past attempts at corridors have not worked,” he said, explaining that they had come under shelling from Russian forces. “If this is successful, it will be the first proper evacuation from Mariupol.”

 

"On Wednesday, Ukraine claimed that Russian forces had struck a Red Cross warehouse in Mariupol amid intense shelling."

 

Or perhaps send a 40 mile convoy and hope for the best? We already know what sort of common sense you have.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mariupol-buses-evacuation-b2047940.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that I was actually in the military during a war ( though not in the fighting as not infantry or artillery ) I find that to be frankly ludicrous, unless the Russian army is as bad as is being made out on this thread and I doubt that.

Sounds like people are desperate to make up stuff about the enemy.

 

BTW, every army has "teething" problems in a war if they haven't had recent experience of action because the people with the knowledge have left, and theoretical instruction is no substitute for the real thing. Far as I know, the Russian army hasn't been in a proper war since Afghanistan.

What is your explanation of the high kill rate of Russian generals? Very good intelligence on their whereabouts by the Ukrainians? Betrayed by their own conscripts?

I'm just using Occam's Razor, the most probable place to get killed is on the front line.

 

It's pretty obvious the Russians did not anticipate the level of resistance, nor did they anticipate the Ukrainians being armed with equipment that is destroying their tanks wholesale.