What does working with a visa agent look like?

[vinci]

Quote

The main reason people use an agent is to supply the funds

wrong, some people doesn't want to deal with all the hassle and paper work, they do have the fund and bank book, they rather not deal with immigration, i had few bank account and one account specifically for immigration extension only, had 500k sit in this account for the last decade never touches them and use the same book over and over for extension

[FriendlyFarang]

30 minutes ago, jimn said:

What makes you think extensions obtain via an agent are not legit. The extension is signed and stamped by exactly thr same person in all circumstances. Its 100% legit.

I didn't say that extensions obtained via an agent are not legit. If you legally qualify for an extension and the agent just assists with it, that's very well legit.

But if you don't legally qualify for one, for example you want to obtain a retirement extension even though you can't prove income or money in bank, or a volunteer extension without volunteering, or an education extension without actually studying, and the agent creates fake documents which the IO signs for a bribe, then that's not legit, even if an IO signed it. There has never been any crackdown on these extensions yet, because obviously it's a nice earner for IOs, but one should keep in mind that theoretically it could happen.

Edited April 21, 2022 by FriendlyFarang

[NanLaew]

12 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

The "other" level of service is to assist those that cannot/not want,

to have funds in the bank.

In that case you would not be attending immigration. 

Not exclusively so. Some immigration offices still need to take a picture of the applicant while others have a workaround for this. For example:

 

2 hours ago, hereforgood said:

That used to be my experience also but the other day I was told the photo can be taken by the agent in their office so it's saved a trip even going to immigration

 

[FriendlyFarang]

27 minutes ago, jimn said:

Immigration have the authority to override any requurements for the money to be deposited for a length of time.

Theoretically they could do this, but in cases like yours they probably don't do it, would be too complicated.

Usually the IOs add a handwritten note to the extension stamp, which gives away how the extension was obtained.

In case of a retirement extension it would be "2.22", is this written next to your stamp, or any other number?

[DefaultName]

I use Jomtien, I have the money in the bank and, being retired, I have the time.  Having said that, I use the agent in the compound to complete my forms, do any photocopies needed, etc.  Then take them in myself.  Cost is usually a couple of hundred and I have never had issues with the forms in immigration - I think that, seeing their paperwork, the officer pretty much rubberstamps it, he knows it's correct.  Worth the (small) money to me.

 

I know many who use agents because they can't, or don't want to, put the money in the bank.  I've always thought that it's dodgy though, a "Big Joke" type in charge could cause some serious grief there.

[ubonjoe]

51 minutes ago, jimn said:

Immigration have the authority to override any requurements for the money to be deposited for a length of time.

In reality that is not correct. It is what agents often state.

This from immigration order 327/2557.

It is fairly clear that a immigration officer in charge of a immigration office can do it.

In my opinion they sign off on a application without any verified documents (bank letter, bank book copies and etc) to support the application.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, jimn said:

What makes you think extensions obtain via an agent are not legit. The extension is signed and stamped by exactly thr same person in all circumstances. Its 100% legit.

I haven't read the details before this post. But I remember a so called visa agent in Bangkok maybe 10 years ago. He got a visa for everybody, no problem. Until the moment some important people found out that he did all the stamping and signing by himself. He had to leave the country within a few days...

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I haven't read the details before this post. But I remember a so called visa agent in Bangkok maybe 10 years ago. He got a visa for everybody, no problem. Until the moment some important people found out that he did all the stamping and signing by himself. He had to leave the country within a few days...

That must have been a lot longer ago than 10 years (I would guess 30 years at least). There is no way immigration stamps in passports with no matching record in the immigration computer could long evade detection.

 

The nearest scam to what you describe was a dodge where an agent would collect passports in Bangkok and take them en masse for stamping into Malaysia and back without the passport owners needing to make the trip. I cannot remember exactly when this occurred (something like 20 years ago, I think). This evaded discovery for a while because all the stamps were essentially good with matching records in the immigration computer. The border runs were invalid only because it could be shown that the passport owners had not actually accompanied their passports outside Thailand. It caused quite a stir at the time.

 

More recent, but expensive and rare, have been isolated reports of immigration officials at borders resolving long overstays by doctoring both passport stamps and immigration records to make it seem as though the overstay never happened and the passport owner just re-entered the country visa exempt. The key to this and similar illegal activity is that officials must be of a seniority and so located that they can make stamps and immigration database match.

Edited April 21, 2022 by BritTim

[vinci]

Sadao if anybody can remember that

[Eff1n2ret]

2 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

In case of a retirement extension it would be "2.22", is this written next to your stamp, or any other number?

Yes, I've never noticed that before, but that notation is there against all my extensions. Does that mean a DIY applicant or "Money in the Bank", or just Retirement, which is written there anyway?

Edited April 21, 2022 by Eff1n2ret

[FriendlyFarang]

10 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Yes, I've never noticed that before, but that notation is there against all my extensions. Does that mean a DIY applicant or "Money in the Bank", or just Retirement, which is written there anyway?

It means that the extension was granted under section 2.22 of this order, and the applicant (or agent) either provided a bank statement with 3 months seasoning or proof of income as specified: https://aseannow.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=804079

 

Some people like to say "an IO can waive requirements", which isn't wrong, but if an IO would actually do this the extension would be granted under section 5 and not section 2.22, the note next to the stamp would reflect this.

So if somebody paid an agent to obtain an extension because he doesn't have the money in the bank and the note says "2.22", this means that the agent submitted fake banking documents to the IO to obtain the extension. If the note says "5", then it would mean that the IO actually waived the requirements, but I think this never actually happens, it is always done through fake documents from the agent.

Edited April 21, 2022 by FriendlyFarang

[chilly07]

Exceptionally useful when you get to old or decrepit to stand in long Covid spreading queues at Immigration. Agents are reluctant to do marriage extensions as they and local immigration don't want to share the fee with HQ

[chilly07]

2 hours ago, DefaultName said:

I use Jomtien, I have the money in the bank and, being retired, I have the time.  Having said that, I use the agent in the compound to complete my forms, do any photocopies needed, etc.  Then take them in myself.  Cost is usually a couple of hundred and I have never had issues with the forms in immigration - I think that, seeing their paperwork, the officer pretty much rubberstamps it, he knows it's correct.  Worth the (small) money to me.

 

I know many who use agents because they can't, or don't want to, put the money in the bank.  I've always thought that it's dodgy though, a "Big Joke" type in charge could cause some serious grief there.

I once did the same at Jomtien but the IO was most unhappy with what the 'agent' outside did and I had to rapidly redo everything

[khunPer]

14 hours ago, ThLT said:

I've been doing my visa changes/renewals for some time. Basic things, especially extensions (tourist, ED, and now B once I start working). When there were no tourists because of COVID, it would take 45 minutes at the most. Now that things are picking back up again, I don't want to go back to spending hours, or using a whole afternoon to go to immigration. If the price is decent, for a visa agent to do everything instead, and you just have to relax at home, that could be a good investment. 

 

Your B-extension can be often done by the accountant of the company your work for, better - and might also be cheaper - than an agent, as the accountant normally has all relevant information.

[Olmate]

19 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

It means that the extension was granted under section 2.22 of this order, and the applicant (or agent) either provided a bank statement with 3 months seasoning or proof of income as specified: https://aseannow.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=804079

 

Some people like to say "an IO can waive requirements", which isn't wrong, but if an IO would actually do this the extension would be granted under section 5 and not section 2.22, the note next to the stamp would reflect this.

So if somebody paid an agent to obtain an extension because he doesn't have the money in the bank and the note says "2.22", this means that the agent submitted fake banking documents to the IO to obtain the extension. If the note says "5", then it would mean that the IO actually waived the requirements, but I think this never actually happens, it is always done through fake documents from the agent.

Bank docs are not fake.Thats what the agents money into your account is used for.

[OneMoreFarang]

51 minutes ago, BritTim said:

That must have been a lot longer ago than 10 years (I would guess 30 years at least). There is no way immigration stamps in passports with no matching record in the immigration computer could long evade detection.

I am sure it wasn't 30 years ago. Maybe 10 or 15 years. And that guy worked for years, as far as I remember his last office was in Sukhumvit Soi 23.

I guess that worked for a long time because it was used by people who lived in Thailand and never left the country. There could be micky mouse stamps in the passports and it wouldn't matter if nobody looks at those stamps.

It happened, and I am sure I am not the only guy who remembers this. But I don't remember names and can't easily research it.

[chilly07]

27 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

It means that the extension was granted under section 2.22 of this order, and the applicant (or agent) either provided a bank statement with 3 months seasoning or proof of income as specified: https://aseannow.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=804079

 

Some people like to say "an IO can waive requirements", which isn't wrong, but if an IO would actually do this the extension would be granted under section 5 and not section 2.22, the note next to the stamp would reflect this.

So if somebody paid an agent to obtain an extension because he doesn't have the money in the bank and the note says "2.22", this means that the agent submitted fake banking documents to the IO to obtain the extension. If the note says "5", then it would mean that the IO actually waived the requirements, but I think this never actually happens, it is always done through fake documents from the agent.

Can't find any such note on any of my stamps even the first one which was done by an agent. If such an annotation exists it's probably on Immigrations IT so they can identify the agent

[FridgeMagnet1]

My use of agents has been universally positive.

 

Agent “What are your needs?”

 

Me “I want to stay in Thailand X months and I’m X years old”

 

Agent “No problem, that will be XX,000 baht, I need 4 photos and your passport, your Visa will be ready in 3 days”

 

Me “thanks very much”

 

And so it was 

 

 

[SAFETY FIRST]

44 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

I once did the same at Jomtien but the IO was most unhappy with what the 'agent' outside did and I had to rapidly redo everything

You should never see an IO if you're using an agent, I never do. 

 

Sounds like a Dodgy agent, find another one. 

 

 

 

 

[FriendlyFarang]

45 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Bank docs are not fake.Thats what the agents money into your account is used for.

Does it stay in your account for 3 months?

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, DefaultName said:

I use the agent in the compound to complete my forms, do any photocopies needed, etc.  Then take them in myself.  Cost is usually a couple of hundred and I have never had issues with the forms in immigration

I’m all for contributing to the welfare of impecunious Thais, but for me this method would mean extra time wasted in a relatively uncomfortable environment.

 

I filled in the forms years ago on my computer, so they’re all neatly typed. Can’t believe people sit down and fill them out w/ a pen year after year. No wonder the whinging. I even include the Overstay Penalties and Acknowledgment of Terms and Conditions. All neatly typed with my phone number added.

 

Once a year it takes me less than 30 min to scan a couple pages of the bankbook then run off a new set of the forms and the passport file also containing a copy of my pink card; fill in the dates; and sign.

 

I spend another 20-30 min at the bank updating the last page of my bankbook and getting the bank letter. Pro tip: ask the bank lady to make you a copy of the last page of the bankbook showing that last transaction on the day. She’ll do it and it’s free. Save your ink: sign it right then with the bank's pen.???? 

 

And this pile, all in order, stapled, paper clipped, is always quickly accepted by Immigration with nothing to add. Should be, nothing’s changed but the dates and the bankbook transactions.  

 

3 hours ago, DefaultName said:

I think that, seeing their paperwork, the officer pretty much rubberstamps it, he knows it's correct. 

Good, may that continue, but the IO does in fact check. See @chilly07's experience below. Refund not mentioned.
 

[Thingamabob]

At 80 years old I have never used an agent for any purpose in over 40 years in Thailand. It's a matter of personal choice/circumstance. I can envisage a time before long when I may have to due to the inevitable effects of old age on mobility etc.

[FriendlyFarang]

1 hour ago, chilly07 said:

Can't find any such note on any of my stamps even the first one which was done by an agent. If such an annotation exists it's probably on Immigrations IT so they can identify the agent

Just checked my passport, all my extensions (most in CM though) have this information added (in case of tourist extensions it's included in the stamp itself though, other extensions handwritten). The other poster in the previous post said that all his extensions also have such a note, so I would assume that they usually do this note, but as always, it might vary from province to province.

[Photoguy21]

The one I work with is excellent. Used to do it all myself but now I let them do it for me.

[scubascuba3]

20 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

At 80 years old I have never used an agent for any purpose in over 40 years in Thailand. It's a matter of personal choice/circumstance. I can envisage a time before long when I may have to due to the inevitable effects of old age on mobility etc.

If i live to 80 I'll definitely switch to using an agent and spend the 800k

[Olmate]

56 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Does it stay in your account for 3 months?

Not meant.to. Its showing 800k on day of application. "Seasoning.is.waived" . Pay attention! 

[FriendlyFarang]

12 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Not meant.to. Its showing 800k on day of application. "Seasoning.is.waived" . Pay attention! 

Does your extension stamp have "2.22" or "5" (or ขอ5) written by hand next to it?

Edited April 21, 2022 by FriendlyFarang

[Olmate]

24 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Does your extension stamp have "2.22" or "5" (or ขอ5) written by hand next to it?

Does yours? 

[1FinickyOne]

For me, it looks like comfort and security... the agent fills out all paperwork for a nominal fee - we meet at Immigration and knowing the agent, the IO knows that all paperwork is perfect and they take my photo and I am out in 5 minutes... 

 

I would say, for me, it looks like a smile - - 

[FriendlyFarang]

12 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Does yours? 

Mine says "2.9" because it's for education and they didn't waive anything.

If you applied for an extension for retirement, there are two options, depending on if they wrote 2.22 or 5 next to the stamp:

2.22: The agent provided fake documents, stating that the money was in the bank account for 3 months.

5: The IO actually waived some requirement.