4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

filter <50kW  (48 or 49).   Still pretty fast, and since many EV, mine include, won't accept 100kW, then seems a senseless.  MG ZS will accept 76kW.

 

Also, which I just realized, the PhugShare site & app, show vastly different number of chargers.   For some reason, app show many more.  Thought that a bit strange.   Charge Loma app a bit better, but still not as good as the vendor apps, as current.

 

My screenshot was probably from Charge Loma and are fast charger 49kw & up

 

50kW is not a fast charger, it will take 1-2 hours to charge most EVs. Also I only get 35 when filtering with 50kW+ stations and still they are mostly single stations with only 2 plugs. Note I filter only existing stations, not including planned and future. I think it doesn't help anyone to lie about the charging network available in Thailand.

24 minutes ago, Jake72 said:

 

50kW is not a fast charger, it will take 1-2 hours to charge most EVs. Also I only get 35 when filtering with 50kW+ stations and still they are mostly single stations with only 2 plugs. Note I filter only existing stations, not including planned and future. I think it doesn't help anyone to lie about the charging network available in Thailand.

You certainly don't own or know much about EVs.  Ours goes from 30% to 95% in <40 mins, or the time it takes for the wife & myself to 'P', walk the dog, and get a munch.  Car is usually done (@90-95%) before or about same time we are, or we'll let it keep going, if nobody is waiting to plug in.   The last 5% does take about 20 mins, so we usually never bother waiting, unless actually doing something.

 

Frankly, I think you're an idiot if taking your EV to 20-25%, or lower, while O&A.  For us, that's 3+ hrs on the road anyway, using 60-65%, so a break is welcomed, if we even last that long.

 

Any intelligent person doesn't take it below 25%, and the largest battery (affordable) in TH is 82kWh, I think, most in the 50-60kWh range, so rarely more than 1 hr, unless very low, and topping up to 100%, and as stated, why bother with the last 5%, that's silly long for little benefit.

 

BYE BYE

 

52 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You certainly don't own or know much about EVs.  Ours goes from 30% to 95% in <40 mins, or the time it takes for the wife & myself to 'P', walk the dog, and get a munch.  Car is usually done (@90-95%) before or about same time we are, or we'll let it keep going, if nobody is waiting to plug in.   The last 5% does take about 20 mins, so we usually never bother waiting, unless actually doing something.

 

Frankly, I think you're an idiot if taking your EV to 20-25%, or lower, while O&A.  For us, that's 3+ hrs on the road anyway, using 60-65%, so a break is welcomed, if we even last that long.

 

Any intelligent person doesn't take it below 25%, and the largest battery (affordable) in TH is 82kWh, I think, most in the 50-60kWh range, so rarely more than 1 hr, unless very low, and topping up to 100%, and as stated, why bother with the last 5%, that's silly long for little benefit.

 

BYE BYE

 

Your MG has a battery capacity of 50.6 kWh? 😁 😂 😀 

My Bimmer has a 750 kWh power pack 💪.

A question from newbie. I live in rented house and considering an EV. Thinking about BYD seal, but the choice is not final. Obviously house owner will not let me to make any alterations with house wiring either install any charger. But there is a usual electric plug conveniently located near parking place. So my questions are: will I be able to charge EV from that socket? I do not care about charging time, can be even several days, as Im using car rarely. If so, will I need to buy some socket adaptor, or usually it coming with car?

8 minutes ago, VBer said:

A question from newbie. I live in rented house and considering an EV. Thinking about BYD seal, but the choice is not final. Obviously house owner will not let me to make any alterations with house wiring either install any charger. But there is a usual electric plug conveniently located near parking place. So my questions are: will I be able to charge EV from that socket? I do not care about charging time, can be even several days, as Im using car rarely. If so, will I need to buy some socket adaptor, or usually it coming with car?

You can use a 3-5kW wall charger and yes it will likely take full day to charge your car. And that's fine if you don't drive much or it's a 2nd or 3nd car. Just not recommended if you need to do a lot of road trips.

1 minute ago, VBer said:

A question from newbie. I live in rented house and considering an EV. Thinking BYD seal, but the choice is not final. Obviously house owner will not let me to make any alterations with house wiring either install any charger. But there is a usual electric plug conveniently located near parking place. So my questions are: will I be able to charge EV from that socket? I do not care about charging time, can be even several days, as Im using car rarely. If so, will I need to buy some socket adaptor, or usually it coming with car?

You can charge an EV with a standard socket ( no adaptor required ), most EV’s supply a charger ( known as a granny or emergency charger ) .

If there is no earth wire to your socket then it is likely that the dealer supplied granny charger will not work, but you can buy a charger from Lazada ( I did this to charge at my mother in law’s house ).

 

I charged at home with my granny charger for around a month ( until wall charger installation ) and found it sufficient and very easy.

15 minutes ago, VBer said:

A question from newbie. I live in rented house and considering an EV. Thinking about BYD seal, but the choice is not final. Obviously house owner will not let me to make any alterations with house wiring either install any charger. But there is a usual electric plug conveniently located near parking place. So my questions are: will I be able to charge EV from that socket? I do not care about charging time, can be even several days, as Im using car rarely. If so, will I need to buy some socket adaptor, or usually it coming with car?

Should be no problem, and will plug into a normal wall socket as ours only puts out 2.3kWh, not much more than a higher powered microwave or oven.  

 

It's call the 'emergency or granny' charger, and what we use 99% of time, unless we are out of town.  Our charging time is limited, as we use solar, but so far, never an issue charging, unless a week of crap overcast & rain.   Then we might use the supplied/installed by dealer, wall charger, but very rare.   As we have an E-Motorcycle also, so never without something to drive.

 

Should easily charge up 50% overnight and more than enough to get back to 100%, if limited driving during the day.  

 

Our MG ZS has a 50.3kWh battery (46.3kWh usable), and here's info on that:

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

You certainly don't own or know much about EVs.  Ours goes from 30% to 95% in <40 mins, or the time it takes for the wife & myself to 'P', walk the dog, and get a munch.  Car is usually done (@90-95%) before or about same time we are, or we'll let it keep going, if nobody is waiting to plug in.   The last 5% does take about 20 mins, so we usually never bother waiting, unless actually doing something.

 

Frankly, I think you're an idiot if taking your EV to 20-25%, or lower, while O&A.  For us, that's 3+ hrs on the road anyway, using 60-65%, so a break is welcomed, if we even last that long.

 

Any intelligent person doesn't take it below 25%, and the largest battery (affordable) in TH is 82kWh, I think, most in the 50-60kWh range, so rarely more than 1 hr, unless very low, and topping up to 100%, and as stated, why bother with the last 5%, that's silly long for little benefit.

 

BYE BYE

 

I drove a model 3 in Bangkok for several years that I used for daily commute, so why are you saying I don't know anything about EVs? Please elaborate. Is this some kind of intimidation/gate keeping tactic you thought would work to cover up your lies about charging stations?

 

Also why would you want your car to dictate when and for how long you need to take a break?.. lol.. that's insane.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Jake72 said:

I drove a model 3 in Bangkok for several years that I used for daily commute, so why are you saying I don't know anything about EVs? Please elaborate. Is this some kind of intimidation/gate keeping tactic you thought would work to cover up your lies about charging stations?

 

Also why would you want your car to dictate when and for how long you need to take a break?.. lol.. that's insane

If having a model 3, why would you make a silly statement, it takes 1-2 hrs to charge.   And the car doesn't dictate anything, we simply charge while we are doing things.   We pull into the PTT Parks to 'P', walk the dog, and get a munch while on the road, and while there, top up the car.

 

Or if  convenient, top up the car while at a restaurant, options abound;

 

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If having a model 3, why would you make a silly statement, it takes 1-2 hrs to charge.   And the car doesn't dictate anything, we simply charge while we are doing things.   We pull into the PTT Parks to 'P', walk the dog, and get a munch while on the road, and while there, top up the car.

 

Or if  convenient, top up the car while at a restaurant, options abound;

 

Why are you using strawman arguments? I said it would take 1-2 hours to charge most EVs at a 50kW charger, what is false about that? Let's never forget how you blatantly lied about fast chargers in Chonburi. And still who wants their car to dictate when and where to take a break for several hours? A car means freedom, unless it's an EV.

45 minutes ago, VBer said:

A question from newbie. I live in rented house and considering an EV. Thinking about BYD seal, but the choice is not final. Obviously house owner will not let me to make any alterations with house wiring either install any charger. But there is a usual electric plug conveniently located near parking place. So my questions are: will I be able to charge EV from that socket? I do not care about charging time, can be even several days, as Im using car rarely. If so, will I need to buy some socket adaptor, or usually it coming with car?

Outlets like you are talking about are typically a 220V/16A (3.5KW) circuits protected by a 20A circuit breaker in the main circuit breaker panel.  That outlet may not be dedicated and has other outlets within the house using power off that circuit.   What you could use is a portable (a.k.a. granny) charger that is usually a 10A (3.2KW) charger which is probably going to charge an EV at about 2.2 to 2.5KWH due to charging efficiency loss & how the EV onboard charger handles lower charging levels.     Assuming some other devices in your home is also using juice on that circuit hopefully you have 10A of juice left over to power the granny charger.

 

I have a BYD Atto with 60KWH battery and had to use the BYD provided 10A (3.2KW) granny charger for several weeks before I got my 7KW wall charger installed on a dedicated 40A line.  When using the granny charger it would charge at a 2.2KWH rate which means it would take approx 27 hours to charge the EV battery from 0 to 100% which would give me a 480Km NEDC range (but more like 440Km real world).      But say you only drive the EV say 44Km/day which would use approx 10% of your EV charge assuming it has a 60KW battery....to recharge that 10% with a granny charger it would take about 3 hours....or approx (rough) every 1 hour of charging adds 3% charge to the battery.    Charge overnight say for 10 hours and you can gain approx 30% charge/approx 130Km range.   Summary: a person can definitely get by just using a granny charger for typical day-to-day driving but you are going to be charging a lot with that slow granny charger if you want to keep the EV charge topped-up to nearly full charge. 

 

21 minutes ago, Jake72 said:

Why are you using strawman arguments? I said it would take 1-2 hours to charge most EVs at a 50kW charger, what is false about that? Let's never forget how you blatantly lied about fast chargers in Chonburi. And still who wants their car to dictate when and where to take a break for several hours? A car means freedom, unless it's an EV.

blatantly lied ... as I suspected

 

BYE BYE

 

Use better apps, get better info

FYI ... Chonburi screenshot is for charging station that use this plug (only one filtered), which is for fast charging:

 

Again, this is what's available, using that plug, so please point out the deception:

 

this is what's on the PlugShare app, and usually not current:

 

 

To add, just the fast charge plugs at PEA:

 

 

I don't have EV Station app on my phone, but here's a not up to date from Gmap,

and usually located at PTT staions:

:

 

CAN'T FIND A FAST CHARGER ... YOU'RE NOT LOOKING VERY HARD

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Jake72 said:

Why are you using strawman arguments? I said it would take 1-2 hours to charge most EVs at a 50kW charger, what is false about that? Let's never forget how you blatantly lied about fast chargers in Chonburi. And still who wants their car to dictate when and where to take a break for several hours? A car means freedom, unless it's an EV.

I agree, that owning an EV is not freedom in real terms.

An EV owner has to plan, a gas car owner doesn't....🤗

The farcical, ‘EV’s will save the planet’ drive, stemming from the liberal elite in Brussels / Strasbourg, is unravelling at pace. The second hand EV market in the UK has imploded; a huge percentage of initial purchases were from tax incentivised fleet purchases, and nobody wants to buy their 3 year old EV’s with no idea or history of battery degradation.

 

The bubble has well and truly burst in Europe, with thousands that bought EV’s privately scrambling to sell them to return to ICE’s

 

Thailand were behind Europe in being coerced into taking part in this appalling, failed experiment; it will consequently take a bit longer for the realisation of the utter folly to be acknowledged here, which gives any EV owners here a window, albeit a brief one, to sell their cars and get back on the gas.     

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

blatantly lied ... as I suspected

 

BYE BYE

 

Use better apps, get better info

FYI ... Chonburi screenshot is for charging station that use this plug (only one filtered), which is for fast charging:

 

Again, this is what's available, using that plug, so please point out the deception:

 

this is what's on the PlugShare app, and usually not current:

 

 

 

 

You absolutely lied, saying they were all FAST CHARGERS in Chonburi, but you got CAUGHT.. lol, why did you chose to lie? couldn't you have chosen something more constructive like saying the charging network is still lacking?

 

 

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

The farcical, ‘EV’s will save the planet’ drive, stemming from the liberal elite in Brussels / Strasbourg, is unravelling at pace. The second hand EV market in the UK has imploded; a huge percentage of initial purchases were from tax incentivised fleet purchases, and nobody wants to buy their 3 year old EV’s with no idea or history of battery degradation.

 

The bubble has well and truly burst in Europe, with thousands that bought EV’s privately scrambling to sell them to return to ICE’s

 

Thailand were behind Europe in being coerced into taking part in this appalling, failed experiment; it will consequently take a bit longer for the realisation of the utter folly to be acknowledged here, which gives any EV owners here a window, albeit a brief one, to sell their cars and get back on the gas.     

Though I think you are right in many respects, I am not so sure that the diehards here will be capitulating, they will go back to part exchange their MG at MG, they will take their old ride to buy another. Then wipe their brow.....Phew...    🤭

13 minutes ago, transam said:

I agree, that owning an EV is not freedom in real terms.

An EV owner has to plan, a gas car owner doesn't....🤗

Plan ... really ...

 

While on the road ... Honey, I got to 'P', or I'm hungry ... OK, where's the next PTT EV station this side of the road.  Other side if having to P that bad. 

 

That's some tough planning, don't know how we do it.    I know, you guys just use a bottle while driving on the road for 6 hours.

Oh wait, you have a Celerio .... please stop talking to me.

 

In case you didn't see my other post, on our latest O&A, cost was about ฿2000 vs ฿6000 for petrol is using our ICE version of same car.  No real planning, and doing the exact same, as if owning an ICEV when out & about.

 

AND ... it's more fun to drive, and more comfortable.

17 minutes ago, Jake72 said:

You absolutely lied, saying they were all FAST CHARGERS in Chonburi, but you got CAUGHT.. lol, why did you chose to lie? couldn't you have chosen something more constructive like saying the charging network is still lacking?

 

 

I guess you can't read the post above ... no deception, but please, keep repeating it.   Though don't expect any further replies.

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

I guess you can't read the post above ... no deception, but please, keep repeating it.   Though don't expect any further replies.

Let's hear how you didn't lie? .. lol.. good luck, everyone can look back in the thread and see your lies, why deny it? just admit you lied. It will make you feel better and maybe people will respect you again.

2 hours ago, Jake72 said:

 

50kW is not a fast charger, it will take 1-2 hours to charge most EVs. Also I only get 35 when filtering with 50kW+ stations and still they are mostly single stations with only 2 plugs. Note I filter only existing stations, not including planned and future. I think it doesn't help anyone to lie about the charging network available in Thailand.

 

 

A 50KW DC Fast Charger may not be fast enough for some folks, but technically any charger that is a "DC", repeat, DC charger is a Fast Charger even if it's a mere DC 25KW fast charger. These DC chargers feed DC vs AC current to the EV DC charging port.  AC chargers are limited to 22KW which feed AC current to the EV AC charging port where the EV's onboard charger then converts it to DC current...and 22KW and 11KW AC chargers require three phase power which most homes/locations do not have especially in Thailand.  So, AC chargers are typically single phase 7KW chargers.  

 

Additionally, even when "most" EVs are hooked up to say a 22KW three phase AC charger the EV will only charge at approx 7KW since most EVs AC charging ports/onboard chargers are designed to only accept single phase AC current....and if hooked to a 3 phase 11KW AC charger most EVs will only charge at around 3.6KW once again due to the EV being designed to only accept single phase AC current.  Note: I said "most" EVs especially for most EV sold in countries which predominately use single phase AC power (like Thailand), but in some countries where 3 phase home power is common then more EVs come with 3 phase charging capability.  Varies from country to country, EV model to model as to if AC three phase charging is available.

 

And another important thing that must be considered is the EV battery's "charging curve"...that is the max charging rate the EV throughout its charge level even if hooked up to say a 150KW charger vs a 50KW charger.  While a DC charger may be able to pump out 150KW if the EV max charging rate is say 80KW then 80KW will be the max the charger will pump out for "part of the charging time (not all)."   

 

Below is the BYD Atto 3 60KWH battery charging curve using a 50KW and 150KW DC chargers.  The blue line on the chart is the charging rate/curve with a 150KW charger and the yellow line is the charge rate/curve with a 50KW charger. Although the 150KW charger is three times more powerful than a the 50KW charger the 150KW charger will charge the EV from 10 to 80% only 16 minutes faster than a 50KW charger due to the EV charging curve that varies throughout the battery's charge level. 

 

Typically an EV battery will only charge at its "maximum" charge rate up until reach approx 40 to 60% charge level and then the EV starts limiting/stepping down the charge rate.   Unless racing to the next charger hundreds of kilometers down the road a 50KW DC fast charger is just fine....a 90KW charger like a lot of EA Anywhere DC Fast Chargers is better....and finding higher level DC charger gets hard to do because a 50 to 90KW DC Fast Charger is just fine and fast for most any EV due to current EV "battery charging curves."   Newer technology batteries will bring much fast charging curves but that still down the road after cutting thru all the battery and EV manufacturers' hype.

 

 

Charge Curve for a BYD Atto 3 60KWH battery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Jake72 said:

Let's hear how you didn't lie? .. lol.. good luck, everyone can look back in the thread and see your lies, why deny it? just admit you lied. It will make you feel better and maybe people will respect you again.

 

I’ve looked back in the thread, and seen his lie; but if he holds his hand up to it, it will be a first

44 minutes ago, transam said:

Though I think you are right in many respects, I am not so sure that the diehards here will be capitulating, they will go back to part exchange their MG at MG, they will take their old ride to buy another. Then wipe their brow.....Phew...    🤭

They will trade all their Chinese first generation EVs in for the latest self-driving model. 

Entire YouTube channels will be dedicated for the dash camera footage. 📷 

 

57 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

The farcical, ‘EV’s will save the planet’ drive, stemming from the liberal elite in Brussels / Strasbourg, is unravelling at pace. The second hand EV market in the UK has imploded; a huge percentage of initial purchases were from tax incentivised fleet purchases, and nobody wants to buy their 3 year old EV’s with no idea or history of battery degradation.

 

The bubble has well and truly burst in Europe, with thousands that bought EV’s privately scrambling to sell them to return to ICE’s

 

Thailand were behind Europe in being coerced into taking part in this appalling, failed experiment; it will consequently take a bit longer for the realisation of the utter folly to be acknowledged here, which gives any EV owners here a window, albeit a brief one, to sell their cars and get back on the gas.     

I suppose some day you will notice that the UK is no longer in the EU....... at least not for the time being.

 

Battery degradation uncertainty might just not be the right counter EV argument - HV battery SOH can actually be determined very accurately with the right diagnostic tools.

 

I seriously doubt that many EV's have been bought because the buyer wants to contribute to the 'safe the planet' gospel, sure some did, but for most the reasons are very different. It seems to me what brought on the craze are the incentives in various forms - e.g. in Beijing getting a plate for an ICE is next to impossible and only by lottery, EV's get them instantly........etc. If incentives are removed on a large scale - like Germany just did - the EV segment will fall on hard times, but that could be the reason Germany with a badly struggling EV industry did it?

 

I have an EV for technical reasons. The financial incentive was also not too shabby. I also do not think the world will go EV within a few years as mostly Tesla stock holders are betting on. But I also think EV's are here to stay, the cat is out of the bag, and it is fun to drive an EV - maybe take off the blinders and give it a try?

 

As for your desire to inhale the exhaust fumes of the modded pick-up trucks belching black Diesel smoke by the truckload - enjoy!

26 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

I suppose some day you will notice that the UK is no longer in the EU....... at least not for the time being.

 

If you would be kind enough to point out where I said that the UK was still in the EU, I will apologise for my error; if you cannot, please refrain from attempting to attribute statements to me that I categorically did not make …. thank you kindly

 

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

The second hand EV market in the UK has imploded

 

The problem with your argument is that secondhand prices in the UK are compared to "List" prices for new cars when nobody pays the full price. Watch the video below to educate yourself

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Thailand were behind Europe in being coerced into taking part in this appalling, failed experiment; it will consequently take a bit longer for the realisation of the utter folly to be acknowledged here, which gives any EV owners here a window, albeit a brief one, to sell their cars and get back on the gas.   

 

Well glad you finally got around to talking about "EVs in Thailand" the title of this discussion. 

There is an expectation here that you post evidence to support your claims which you failed to do, so it's my job to call you out on the twaddle you just posted.

 

EV sales in Thailand rose last year by over 700% 

 

ICE car sales in Thailand fell by 19%

 

Proving that you are talking utter nonsense

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

The farcical, ‘EV’s will save the planet’ drive, stemming from the liberal elite in Brussels / Strasbourg, is unravelling at pace. The second hand EV market in the UK has imploded; a huge percentage of initial purchases were from tax incentivised fleet purchases, and nobody wants to buy their 3 year old EV’s with no idea or history of battery degradation.

 

The bubble has well and truly burst in Europe, with thousands that bought EV’s privately scrambling to sell them to return to ICE’s

 

Thailand were behind Europe in being coerced into taking part in this appalling, failed experiment; it will consequently take a bit longer for the realisation of the utter folly to be acknowledged here, which gives any EV owners here a window, albeit a brief one, to sell their cars and get back on the gas.     

 

Are you talking about Europe on planet Earth or another planet?   Notice in the chart below the green color bars (partially or fully electric) are still getting bigger as of Jan 2024 while the brown color bars (ICEV) are getting smaller.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-new-car-sales-rise-12-yy-january-acea-2024-02-20/#:~:text=EVs - whether fully electric models,down from 53.3% in December.&text=U.S. EV pioneer Tesla (TSLA,in EU sales in January.

 

 

30 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

As for your desire to inhale the exhaust fumes of the modded pick-up trucks belching black Diesel smoke by the truckload - enjoy!

 

Once again I have to witness, and once again be the victim of, you attributing statements to me that I categorically did not make … it is called trolling, please desist.

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

They will trade all their Chinese first generation EVs in for the latest self-driving model. 

Entire YouTube channels will be dedicated for the dash camera footage. 📷 

 

https://www.indy100.com/science-tech/tesla-autopilot-fail-child-dummy

 

It's why this stuff is refined on test tracks as in the link you provided. My God you are a tiresome bore with your anti-Chinese anti-EV nonsense. Have you got nothing better to do? (Obviously not)

Any comments on the Tesla (USA! USA!) video?

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

They will trade all their Chinese first generation EVs in for the latest self-driving model. 

Entire YouTube channels will be dedicated for the dash camera footage. 📷 

 

Again, tiresome bore posting propaganda. In addition to my other response here you can see the full video where they are testing Chinese brands against Toyota, GM and others to see how the emergency braking works at different speeds. The clip you showed is plucked from that video with no context and all you anti-China bigots jump on it - it is pretty sad to be honest. Maybe you should get a hobby.

And feel free to comment on the Tesla link I shared in my other reply. You really are scraping the barrel.
 

 

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

The problem with your argument is that secondhand prices in the UK are compared to "List" prices for new cars when nobody pays the full price. Watch the video below to educate yourself

 

 

 

 

Well glad you finally got around to talking about "EVs in Thailand" the title of this discussion. 

There is an expectation here that you post evidence to support your claims which you failed to do, so it's my job to call you out on the twaddle you just posted.

 

EV sales in Thailand rose last year by over 700% 

 

ICE car sales in Thailand fell by 19%

 

Proving that you are talking utter nonsense

 

 

 

 

That snapshot from the FTI  only shows partial year not full year for 2023

For the entire last year, domestic auto sales fell 8.67 percent from a year earlier to 775,780 units, of which 30.75 percent were ICE passenger cars, 11.98 percent were HEVs, and 9.48 percent were BEVs, the statement said.

https://english.news.cn/asiapacific/20240130/66e3419a1be742708839fb1cd4ce47c6/c.html