Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[transam]

10 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Do you think Gabriel Brindusescu decided to research and do an article on solid state technology, he independently contacted Toyota for information, dug in on their research, weighed it up and wrote an article? Or did Toyota release a PR piece which he lapped up and reworded? You do know how the press works, right? Most of these publications are fed press releases.

Oh, and by the way, Autoevolution gives his bio:

"When it comes to car preferences, he will tell you that classic cars are the best, especially old American muscle. There are few modern day cars that get him really excited, and don’t ever dare to ask him about hybrids or EVs if you don’t want to see him mad excited."  It's not you is it??

 

Another who did not understand my question, but never mind......😂

[mistral53]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

 Can you expand on how the "...pre-paid function...." in the Spark app works....specifically how it works?   

 

That is, do you mean the Spark app has a Wallet you need to top-up first and then the charging cost is deduct from the app Wallet.    If so, what payment options are offered to top-up?...such as QR Payment, credit/debit card, etc?    If a Thai credit/debit card "only" is allowed to pay/top-up/etc., then that can many times be problematic if a person can get their credit/debit card accepted by the charging app.  Thanks.

 

Affirmative - it is sort of a single purpose wallet. See payment methods below........ not sure how common Alipay is in Thailand?

 

 

[mistral53]

16 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I suspect 8 stalls at 200kw is not possible without upgrading the supply, perhaps they are waiting on that, how many stalls were occupied?

 

Together with our BYD - there were 5 cars hooked up for charging.

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

 

Affirmative - it is sort of a single purpose wallet. See payment methods below........ not sure how common Alipay is in Thailand?

 

 

Awesome....thanks.   Although Spark has very few chargers right now...like only 5 locations Thailand-wide showing on their charging app with 4 of those 5 coded as "Coming Soon" (only active one is in Hua Hin) I may just sign up since I can pay for charging via PromptPay.   Just for others listening in the other 4 charging locations (all coded as Coming Soon) are: 3 in Bangkok and 1 in Saraburi.

 

While my Bangkok Bank Mastercard debit card would probably be accepted as a payment option (and maybe one of my foreign credit cards) I don't want to put my credit/debit card info on any site that I really don't need/would rarely use due to hacking concerns.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 4/18/2024 at 11:14 AM, spidermike007 said:

The Eagerly Awaited Solid-State Battery (in 2027)

Beyond that, Toyota confirms plans to introduce solid-state batteries as soon as 2027, although we note that the date has already slipped from the 2025 that was being quoted last year. Solid-state batteries use solid rather than liquid electrolytes, allowing for a greater tolerance of high voltages and temperatures and improving energy density and reducing weight. The challenges are complexity, cost, and the difficulty in delivering long-term durability. Toyota says its first-gen solid-state packs are targeting about 520 miles of range, with a 10-minute 10-to-80 charge capability, but also says that subsequent evolution will likely move peak range up to 630 miles. That figure that would surely be enough to persuade even the most determined EV doubter that long journeys can be accomplished electrically.

 

Moving beyond lithium will be the ultimate next step. 

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45942785/toyota-future-ev-battery-plans/

No need to wait until 2027.

 

First electric car equipped with solid-state batteries goes on sale

 

Quote

It's called the IM L6, is Chinese, costs £36,300 promises a range of 621 miles [1,000 km] and recharges at a power of 400 kW.

 

Edited April 19 by GroveHillWanderer

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

No need to wait until 2027.

 

First electric car equipped with solid-state batteries goes on sale

 

 

I don't trust Chinese cars, and I don't like supporting Chinese companies, nor the Chinese government. So I have multiple reasons to never buy a Chinese car. 

 

Not gonna happen. 

[macahoom]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I don't trust Chinese cars, and I don't like supporting Chinese companies, nor the Chinese government. So I have multiple reasons to never buy a Chinese car. 

 

Not gonna happen. 

 

Thanks for letting us know.

[Gweiloman]

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I don't trust Chinese cars, and I don't like supporting Chinese companies, nor the Chinese government. So I have multiple reasons to never buy a Chinese car. 

 

Not gonna happen. 

And there we have it. The perfect example of a brainwashed, propagandised westerner, who won’t buy a cheaper but undoubtedly superior product, just because he can’t let go of his bias and prejudices.

 

But he posts in a thread that is for all intents and purposes, a thread about Chinese made cars. What a laugh.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

And there we have it. The perfect example of a brainwashed, propagandised westerner, who won’t buy a cheaper but undoubtedly superior product, just because he can’t let go of his bias and prejudices.

 

But he posts in a thread that is for all intents and purposes, a thread about Chinese made cars. What a laugh.

Yep, and surely he has more than a few products from CH, whole or in part, made for western companies.  Wonder where the battery for his phone was made, or who owned the raw materials used by Taiwan to make the microchips in so many products.

 

Most grids operate with components from CH.   Everyday living supports CH, unless you're a subsistence farmer.

Edited April 20 by KhunLA

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I don't trust Chinese cars, and I don't like supporting Chinese companies, nor the Chinese government. So I have multiple reasons to never buy a Chinese car. 

 

Not gonna happen. 

No problem buying American products?

American / Western propaganda works, you are a walking talking example. Sad really.

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I don't trust Chinese cars, and I don't like supporting Chinese companies, nor the Chinese government. So I have multiple reasons to never buy a Chinese car. 

 

Not gonna happen. 

Yet you (apparently) have no problem with Biden compelling Americans to buy oil from Iran, Venezuela and the Saudis.  

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

No problem buying American products?

American / Western propaganda works, you are a walking talking example. Sad really.

No. I will buy an American or European made product over a Chinese product, every single opportunity I get. Not only are they higher quality, but I get to deny the subsidized Chinese factories, and the heinous CCP. Call it whatever you like. Makes no difference to me. Never been particularly concerned with criticism, nor name calling.

 

Why? Closer ties to China are not a good idea. They are up to no good. Their intentions are heinous. Their desire for power and dominnance knows no bounds. They cannot and should not be trusted. They are NOT a reliable ally, and are not a good or trustworthy world power. They are only one step above Russia, on the trust scale. Worldwide slavery, and organ harvesting? No thanks Xi. 

 

Perhaps the Chinese should educate themselves on what their own government is doing to the minorities in the West, and Falun Gong members.

Falun Gong practitioners across China are subject to widespread surveillance, arbitrary detention, imprisonment, and torture, and they are at a high risk of extrajudicial execution. The party-state invests hundreds of millions of dollars annually in the campaign to crush Falun Gong, while simultaneously engaging in exploitative and lucrative forms of abuse against practitioners, including extortion and prison labor.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/2017/battle-china-spirit-falun-gong-religious-freedom

The Chinese government has imprisoned more than one million people since 2017 and subjected those not detained to intense surveillance, religious restrictions, forced labor, and forced sterilizations.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights
 

[josephbloggs]

On 4/18/2024 at 12:04 PM, vinny41 said:

Personally I tend to believe Toyota more than ev evangelist's

Toyota will build different vehicles that meet their customer requirements and will offer them choice of types of power source for those vehicles

Ev evangelist's don't want automotive manufacturers to offer their customers choice is EV's nothing else 

Your last sentence is nonsense. EV owners prefer them over ICEs because they are far superior in nearly every respect: performance, comfort, technology, simplicity and running costs. That is the only reason they prefer them. If something better came along (like what?) I don't see any EV owner sticking with EVs. But what else is coming along that can compete? It's certainly not hydrogen.

I came across this article today, Oh dear. Class action lawsuits pending against Toyota by people sucked in by their hydrogen misinformation.

https://insideevs.com/news/708375/toyota-mirai-hydrogen-stations-close/#:~:text=Several owners have gone as,50 miles just to refuel.

Edited April 20 by josephbloggs

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Your last sentence is nonsense. EV owners prefer them over ICEs because they are far superior in nearly every respect: performance, comfort, technology, simplicity and running costs. That is the only reason they prefer them. If something better came along (like what?) I don't see any EV owner sticking with EVs. But what else is coming along that can compete? It's certainly not hydrogen.

I came across this article today, Oh dear. Class action lawsuits pending against Toyota by people sucked in by their hydrogen misinformation.

https://insideevs.com/news/708375/toyota-mirai-hydrogen-stations-close/#:~:text=Several owners have gone as,50 miles just to refuel.

I stated that "Ev evangelist's don't want automotive manufacturers to offer their customers an alternative choice  to EV's its EV's or nothing I think that statement is correct

As to the Mirai

From the article

Many of the Mirai owners I spoke with made it clear that they love their cars.

With its Lexus underpinnings,  the current-generation Mirai has been described to me as a "dream to drive." What they don't love is the infrastructure supporting it and the way it was represented to them before they purchased it.

https://insideevs.com/news/708375/toyota-mirai-hydrogen-stations-close/#:~:text=

we will have to see how the court case goes at the end of day car manufacturers be it electric or  hydrogen are not in the refueling business if all the EV charging stations suddenly decided to shutdown for whatever reason  then EV owners would be screwed 

[JBChiangRai]

The Mirai is an EV, it drives identically to a BEV, it uses a fuel cell and a small lithium battery instead of a large lithium battery.

 

Mirai owners love the way they drive because it’s an EV. 

[JBChiangRai]

Incidentally, there is another problem the HFCEV, the time they take to fuel, typically 10-12 minutes for 300km.

 

If they were less than half full, the filling nozzle ices up, in a warm climate like Thailand you probably only need to wait a couple of minutes, but in a cooler climate as the article stated it can take an hour to get the nozzle off the car, using a cigarette lighter to warm it up is not recommended!

 

Nice in cold climates though, because they are inefficient, the waste product being heat, they keep you warm and toasty.

[JBChiangRai]

On 4/18/2024 at 12:04 PM, vinny41 said:

Personally I tend to believe Toyota more than ev evangelist's

Toyota will build different vehicles that meet their customer requirements and will offer them choice of types of power source for those vehicles

Ev evangelist's don't want automotive manufacturers to offer their customers choice is EV's nothing else 

Do you still not have any doubts about Toyota?

 

I think there is an abundance of evidence they are trying to sabotage uptake of EV’s.

 

From saying EV’s will be superseded by Hydrogen to promising better battery technology down the road.

 

I don’t have the evidence but there’s an abundance of anecdotal evidence about other organizations in Japan singing the same tune from a nuclear power station synthesizing Hydrogen to Japanese news agencies like Nikkei.

 

Then we have posts showing an ICE modified to run on Hydrogen with the tagline “Toyota invents a Hydrogen engine that will kill off EV’s”. And only this month a car running on liquid hydrogen that has to store it at -253° C which is totally impractical for anything other than an hour or two.

 

They have made a catalogue of errors in the past from investing millions (maybe billions) in HFCEV, announcing a decade ago they would have a solid state battery in production by now. Even their hybrids are still using Nickel Metal Hydride batteries.  If they had a decision to make in the last decade, it seems they always made the wrong one.

 

If you can’t compete then obfuscate, spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. It’s a technique IBM have mastered and it’s what I believe Toyota are doing.

 

Toyota’s problem is not that they can’t make BEV’s, it’s that they can’t make them economically and sell them competitively.  They need to slow down or preferably stop the uptake of cheap high quality Chinese EV’s or they risk becoming insignificant.

Edited April 21 by JBChiangRai
Spellificated

[Gweiloman]

16 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

No. I will buy an American or European made product over a Chinese product, every single opportunity I get. Not only are they higher quality, but I get to deny the subsidized Chinese factories, and the heinous CCP. Call it whatever you like. Makes no difference to me. Never been particularly concerned with criticism, nor name calling.

 

Why? Closer ties to China are not a good idea. They are up to no good. Their intentions are heinous. Their desire for power and dominnance knows no bounds. They cannot and should not be trusted. They are NOT a reliable ally, and are not a good or trustworthy world power. They are only one step above Russia, on the trust scale. Worldwide slavery, and organ harvesting? No thanks Xi. 

 

Perhaps the Chinese should educate themselves on what their own government is doing to the minorities in the West, and Falun Gong members.

Falun Gong practitioners across China are subject to widespread surveillance, arbitrary detention, imprisonment, and torture, and they are at a high risk of extrajudicial execution. The party-state invests hundreds of millions of dollars annually in the campaign to crush Falun Gong, while simultaneously engaging in exploitative and lucrative forms of abuse against practitioners, including extortion and prison labor.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/2017/battle-china-spirit-falun-gong-religious-freedom

The Chinese government has imprisoned more than one million people since 2017 and subjected those not detained to intense surveillance, religious restrictions, forced labor, and forced sterilizations.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights
 

You really are a laugh a minute. Both sources you quoted are funded by the US State department. Any light bulbs going off?

[KhunLA]

47 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Do you still not have any doubts about Toyota?

 

I think there is an abundance of evidence they are trying to sabotage uptake of EV’s.

 

From saying EV’s will be superseded by Hydrogen to promising better battery technology down the road.

 

I don’t have the evidence but there’s an abundance of anecdotal evidence about other organizations in Japan singing the same tune from a nuclear power station synthesizing Hydrogen to Japanese news agencies like Nikkei.

 

Then we have posts showing an ICE modified to run on Hydrogen with the tagline “Toyota invents a Hydrogen engine that will kill off EV’s”. And only this month a car running on liquid hydrogen that has to store it at -253° C which is totally impractical for anything other than an hour or two.

 

They have made a catalogue of errors in the past from investing millions (maybe billions) in HFCEV, announcing a decade ago they would have a solid state battery in production by now. Even their hybrids are still using Nickel Metal Hydride batteries.  If they had a decision to make in the last decade, it seems they always made the wrong one.

 

If you can’t compete then obfuscate, spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. It’s a technique IBM have mastered and it’s what I believe Toyota are doing.

 

Toyota’s problem is not that they can’t make BEV’s, it’s that they can’t make them economically and sell them competitively.  They need to slow down or preferably stop the uptake of cheap high quality Chinese EV’s or they risk becoming insignificant.

Simply 'follow the money'

 

Of course they are pushing cars that need to buy high profit fuel to run, and require expensive upkeep & repairs, vs cheaper electric at home or on the road (location dependent) and little to no regular servicing or repair.

 

You don't expect them to disrupt their 'money train' ... of course BEV are evil & impractical.

[Issanman]

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Do you still not have any doubts about Toyota?

 

I think there is an abundance of evidence they are trying to sabotage uptake of EV’s.

 

From saying EV’s will be superseded by Hydrogen to promising better battery technology down the road.

 

I don’t have the evidence but there’s an abundance of anecdotal evidence about other organizations in Japan singing the same tune from a nuclear power station synthesizing Hydrogen to Japanese news agencies like Nikkei.

 

Then we have posts showing an ICE modified to run on Hydrogen with the tagline “Toyota invents a Hydrogen engine that will kill off EV’s”. And only this month a car running on liquid hydrogen that has to store it at -253° C which is totally impractical for anything other than an hour or two.

 

They have made a catalogue of errors in the past from investing millions (maybe billions) in HFCEV, announcing a decade ago they would have a solid state battery in production by now. Even their hybrids are still using Nickel Metal Hydride batteries.  If they had a decision to make in the last decade, it seems they always made the wrong one.

 

If you can’t compete then obfuscate, spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. It’s a technique IBM have mastered and it’s what I believe Toyota are doing.

 

Toyota’s problem is not that they can’t make BEV’s, it’s that they can’t make them economically and sell them competitively.  They need to slow down or preferably stop the uptake of cheap high quality Chinese EV’s or they risk becoming insignificant.

Doesn't appear to be a problem for Toyota and they don't appear to becoming insignificant

They have announced a change in their Forecast of Financial Results as there selling more vehicles than they expected

Net sales are expected to increase due to the depreciation of the yen beyond expectations as well as continued high levels of production and sales in the Materials Handling Equipment Segment and the Automobile Segment. All kinds of profits remain unchanged from the previous forecast reflecting the impact of engine certification issue, such as the compensation to customers and suppliers associated with the shipment suspension of engines, although the increase in net sales will contribute to the increase in profit.

https://www.toyota-industries.com/news/2024/03/29/008641/index.html

Toyota reports 20% jump in first-quarter US auto sales

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-reports-20-jump-first-quarter-us-auto-sales-2024-04-02/

Why would any automotive manufacturer entered the current EV market when the current market is one of price cuts I expect there will be a number of smaller  EV manufacturers that will simply file for bankruptcy over the next 5 years

What EV manufacturers and EV owners require is price stability when you purchase a vehicle you expected to devalue over a number of years what you don't expect is the manufacturer to increase that devaluation by huge price cuts because their products aren't selling in the numbers that they require

EV manufacturers seem to be doing a very good job of sabotaging the  uptake of EV’s with price wars

Out of Interest did MG agree to your  price protection guarantee 

For people that are interested in buying an EV what is holding them back is the current price war as you yourself have stated you wouldn't be happy to pay 50% more for a vehicle 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Simply 'follow the money'

 

Of course they are pushing cars that need to buy high profit fuel to run, and require expensive upkeep & repairs, vs cheaper electric at home or on the road (location dependent) and little to no regular servicing or repair.

 

You don't expect them to disrupt their 'money train' ... of course BEV are evil & impractical.

automotive manufacturers have no input into the price of fuel be it petrol, diesel or electric

Even when the price of fuels go down end customers see little difference as governments normal use any long term fall in prices to increase they % of taxes built into the price

In 2020 the price of oil in Texas when down to -$37.63 per barrel but is bounced back the next day so end customers wouldn't have noticed anything

https://dwfgroup.com/it-it/news-and-insights/insights/2020/4/oil-prices-dropped-to-negative-figures-on-monday-20-april

[josephbloggs]

30 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Doesn't appear to be a problem for Toyota and they don't appear to becoming insignificant

They have announced a change in their Forecast of Financial Results as there selling more vehicles than they expected

Net sales are expected to increase due to the depreciation of the yen beyond expectations as well as continued high levels of production and sales in the Materials Handling Equipment Segment and the Automobile Segment. All kinds of profits remain unchanged from the previous forecast reflecting the impact of engine certification issue, such as the compensation to customers and suppliers associated with the shipment suspension of engines, although the increase in net sales will contribute to the increase in profit.

https://www.toyota-industries.com/news/2024/03/29/008641/index.html

Toyota reports 20% jump in first-quarter US auto sales

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-reports-20-jump-first-quarter-us-auto-sales-2024-04-02/

Why would any automotive manufacturer entered the current EV market when the current market is one of price cuts I expect there will be a number of smaller  EV manufacturers that will simply file for bankruptcy over the next 5 years

What EV manufacturers and EV owners require is price stability when you purchase a vehicle you expected to devalue over a number of years what you don't expect is the manufacturer to increase that devaluation by huge price cuts because their products aren't selling in the numbers that they require

EV manufacturers seem to be doing a very good job of sabotaging the  uptake of EV’s with price wars

Out of Interest did MG agree to your  price protection guarantee 

For people that are interested in buying an EV what is holding them back is the current price war as you yourself have stated you wouldn't be happy to pay 50% more for a vehicle 

 

Just a friendly tip - your posts would be much easier to read if you used paragraphs / line breaks.  They are just walls of texts which makes them hard to read.

[josephbloggs]

8 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I stated that "Ev evangelist's don't want automotive manufacturers to offer their customers an alternative choice  to EV's its EV's or nothing I think that statement is correct

As to the Mirai

From the article

Many of the Mirai owners I spoke with made it clear that they love their cars.

With its Lexus underpinnings,  the current-generation Mirai has been described to me as a "dream to drive."

JB has already beat me to it, but it is an EV, hence it drives like an EV, hence people loving them. EVs are fantastic to drive - I believe that might have been mentioned once or twice.

 

Quote

What they don't love is the infrastructure supporting it and the way it was represented to them before they purchased it.

https://insideevs.com/news/708375/toyota-mirai-hydrogen-stations-close/#:~:text=

we will have to see how the court case goes at the end of day car manufacturers be it electric or  hydrogen are not in the refueling business if all the EV charging stations suddenly decided to shutdown for whatever reason  then EV owners would be screwed 

If all CS suddenly closed EV owners would be a bit screwed but not really. They can still charge at home giving them a range of 400-500kms depending. They can also plug their car into any domestic power socket anywhere for what they call granny charging. In short they can still get around. How many people have Hydrogen filling stations at home?

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

You really are a laugh a minute. Both sources you quoted are funded by the US State department. Any light bulbs going off?

Well whether I'm influenced by the US government or not, I do everything in my power to avoid buying Chinese products, supporting Chinese companies, and supporting the CCP, which I consider to be a heinous political organization. I believe they have nothing but foul intentions so they're not getting my support. At least as little as possible, as it's hard to avoid buying Chinese products entirely. But one can make an effort, if they care. 

 

I believe that if China were to become a significant world power they would not wear their power lightly, nor gracefully. If you need an example of that just look at the South China Sea. 

[KhunLA]

51 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well whether I'm influenced by the US government or not, I do everything in my power to avoid buying Chinese products, supporting Chinese companies, and supporting the CCP, which I consider to be a heinous political organization. I believe they have nothing but foul intentions so they're not getting my support. At least as little as possible, as it's hard to avoid buying Chinese products entirely. But one can make an effort, if they care. 

 

I believe that if China were to become a significant world power they would not wear their power lightly, nor gracefully. If you need an example of that just look at the South China Sea. 

I feel the same about USA 

 

And ... China already is 'THE WORLD POWER' 

Edited April 21 by KhunLA

[transam]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I feel the same about USA 

 

And ... China already is 'THE WORLD POWER' 

Doubt it, they bought a British car brand name to sell a Chinese ride.........😟

[Andrew Dwyer]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Doubt it, they bought a British car brand name to sell a Chinese ride.........😟

🥱

[JBChiangRai]

31 minutes ago, transam said:

Doubt it, they bought a British car brand name to sell a Chinese ride.........😟

And a Swedish car brand name to sell a Chinese ride.

 

Let’s not even go with BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Tesla & VW who all make cars in China.

[transam]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

And a Swedish car brand name to sell a Chinese ride.

 

Let’s not even go with BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Tesla & VW who all make cars in China.

No doubt under their strict rules and supervision, unlike MG, totally Chinese, MG pickup, 100% Chinese truck  with MG bling........🤗