Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[KhunLA]

Still, 310k baht for cheapest, (hopefully all in) is more than I'd spend on an 8+ yr old car, to keep it on the road.  Just buy a new one.

[vinny41]

6 hours ago, mistral53 said:

I truly hope there will be more BYD Seal fiascos so their cars will be getting even cheaper........ but alas, reality has usually other, much more mundane explanations:

(from the linked article, machine translated)

 

quote:

'BYD discount battery?
The main reasons that BYD announced a discount supplier of battery in electric car, born from lower cost of production, continued with the principles of Economy of scale even produced a number of price per piece more was down earlier by the way, BYD has announced a discount on electric cars before, and then as a result of lower cost of production. make can be lowered the price of new cars down.

It also affects the subject case, the car accident in the future, because the price of battery discharge, the new price is down more than original than 40%, resulting in a change a new battery due to accident lower cost than the original.'

 

Lower cost of production is a far more plausible explanation, albeit, less sexy than some wild guessing about fake news.

 

 

In the recent case that reached mainstream media the car was a Seal Performance so the savings on old price vs new price is 8.4% excluding vat

[ExpatOilWorker]

BYD has 4 months of falling y-o-y sales. Supply issue or has the brand lost its appeal for Thai buyers?

[digbeth]

10 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

BYD has 4 months of falling y-o-y sales. Supply issue or has the brand lost its appeal for Thai buyers?

 

Words from the sales girls are that the banks are more restrictive to give out loans now, could also explain the shortfall in registration numbers vs bookings numbers claimed at the motorshow 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, digbeth said:

 

Words from the sales girls are that the banks are more restrictive to give out loans now, could also explain the shortfall in registration numbers vs bookings numbers claimed at the motorshow 

Daughter's experience w/BYD may confirm that, as sales rep, looking at her numbers stated should be no problem, but was denied, after a couple weeks, and surprised both of them.  Added her BF to the mix, he's in banking, and one day approval.  The company she worked for, only submitted her 1 contract, which she had 2 of, so not sure if BF, helped, or they finally got the paperwork right.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Daughter's experience w/BYD may confirm that, as sales rep, looking at her numbers stated should be no problem, but was denied, after a couple weeks, and surprised both of them.  Added her BF to the mix, he's in banking, and one day approval.  The company she worked for, only submitted her 1 contract, which she had 2 of, so not sure if BF, helped, or they finally got the paperwork right.

Car sales people will pretty much say anything to make a sale especially when it's not them that make the decision on a loan approval.  And even if the loan approval falls thru the sales person can still show they hooked a customer but unfortunately the customer couldn't obtain loan approval.   Even the dealership can show stats of reservations/deposits which shows serious interest in their vehicles but unfortunately some customers just can't get final loan approval.  

 

Two people on the hook to ensure a loan is paid back is better than one....even when the loan has collateral backing it up.   Thai banks love guarantors....makes getting a loan easier.   

 

The red Atto I bought in Oct 2023 is one where the a person's loan approval fell thru which freed-up the car up for my purchase.   BYD simply did not have any "red" Atto's in stock/available or near term arrival from the factory and I was basically on the waiting list for a red Atto.   This red Atto had been setting at the dealership for several weeks and the wife and I would ask about it availability every time we went....each time told already sold...just waiting for final loan approval.  It was all ready to be driven away...window tinting and other pretty things already installed the buyer wanted and the dealership had installed before final loan approval...the dealership was apparently 100% sure the financing would be approved for the buyer.  But it finally feel thru....that freed-up the Atto for me.   

 

The wife and I still clearly remember the day that this red Atto freed-up.   We went to the dealership to once again bend their ear in person about "when will our reservation for a red Atto be fulfilled" as we were getting very tired of waiting.  We talked to the dealership manager and our sales lady.   The dealership manager could tell we were serious about just moving on...getting our Bt10K deposit back.  He then made two calls...one to the finance company and one to the buyer to find out what is going on with the buyer's loan approval especially since it had been processing for almost a month already.  That call revealed the finance was not going to approve the loan unless the buyer came up with more down payment or a guarantor....the call to the buyer revealed the buyer throwing in his cards...backing out of the buy.   

 

Yeap, loan applications can often fail especially in the current  economic environment. I expect that is why we are seeing big difference is news media "sales" numbers compared to govt "registration" numbers.   Preaching to the choir I know.

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

24 minutes ago, Pib said:

Even the dealership can show stats of reservations/deposits which shows serious interest in their vehicles but unfortunately some customers just can't get final loan approval.  

Is the deposit refunded to the buyer when the loan approval falls through or is that pocketed by the dealership?

[Pib]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

BYD has 4 months of falling y-o-y sales. Supply issue or has the brand lost its appeal for Thai buyers?

Not surprising in the least for two reasons:  1) in the previous years BYD was the 800 pound guerrilla for EVs in Thailand...on maybe even a 1000 lb guerrilla....they didn't have much of any serious competition other than Telsa, Ora Good Cats, and Neta V's....but beginning in 2023 "MANY" more EV manufacturers/models hit the Thai market (more choices) which caused the guerrilla to have less to eat...he started losing some weight.   2) sluggish economy in 2024 hurting EV and ICE sales across the board.

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

2 hours ago, digbeth said:

 

Words from the sales girls are that the banks are more restrictive to give out loans now, could also explain the shortfall in registration numbers vs bookings numbers claimed at the motorshow 

Being able to offer finance is a great way to get a sale on a second hand item.

 

I had a condo for sale @ ฿7m and the agent told me it was too expensive for most buyers. 
 

A couple of weeks later he was showing a guy with ฿3.5m condos that he didn’t like then he showed him mine and explained that ฿3.5m was 50% deposit with 5 years interest free on the balance. He agreed to buy it on the spot.

 

I would be happy to offer financing when selling a car, my lawyer already has a template contract he could adapt.

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Is the deposit refunded to the buyer when the loan approval falls through or is that pocketed by the dealership?

I expect normally that would be the case but in this case the dealership manager said the buyer would "not" be getting his Bt10K deposit refund due to extra's/add-ons the buyer had ordered and dealership already installed. 

 

The dealership manager seemed truly frustrated with this buyer....I'm sure there is more details to the story.

 

Actually, I was surprised the dealership had installed the extra pretty things (i.e., Solar Guard Black Phantom tinting, door sill plates, paint sealant, etc) "before" final loan approval.  Maybe the dealership was 100% confident this buyer would get a loan and put on the extras before final approval actually occurred...took a chance and lost.  Plus dealers know there is probably a backup buyer waiting in the wings.  

 

I didn't have to pay for the door plates and paint sealant and although I had ordered tinting it was Lamina tinting that cost less than the Solar Guard tinting...I just paid the Lamina price but got the higher priced Solar Guard.

 

 

[Pib]

On 6/11/2024 at 12:22 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

There may after all be some truth to the myth that the electromagnetic fields in an EV destroy the cognitive ability to handle Euclidean mathematics, as first postulated by one of our members with an advanced master degree from the local kindergarten. 

Autolife has joined our own ranks of faulty percentage calculation. 5,474/45,101=12.1% and not 13%.

 

 

 

Here's the whole 11 June Autolife article.   I see the BYD Atto climbed back to the best selling EV for the month of May.   When driving around the greater Bangkok area I see BYD Atto and Dolphin models on the roads "VERY" frequently.  I also see many different EVs very frequently in the Bangkok area...EVs are definitely popular in the greater Bangkok area....they are just everywhere.    I've now had my Atto for almost 8 months & 14K kilometers....zero problems....knock on wood (my head). 

 

https://autolifethailand.tv/ev-register-may-2024-thailand/

 

 

 

 

The total number of 100% electric car registrations in Thailand in May 2024 was 5,474 units, an increase of 33.9%. BYD Atto 3 returned to the championship with 850 units, followed by BYD Dolphin – Deepal S07, while Volvo EX30 has started to register.

Increased 33.9% ! Total registrations for 100% electric cars in Thailand in May 2024 total 5,474 cars, a proportion of 13.0% of new cars, RY.1 nationwide, 45,101 cars, BYD Atto 3 returns to be the champion with 850 cars.

BYD Atto 3 ranked No. 1 with a total of 850 units, reclaiming the championship after flooding the market with a price reduction of up to 250,000 baht, followed by the little brother, ranked No. 2, BYD Dolphin with a total of 844 units, and ChangAn Deepal S07 took the third place with a total of 633 units, followed by MG 4 assembled in Thailand with 624 units in fourth place.

---

The total number of vehicle registrations in the 100% electric vehicle group (BEV: Battery Electric Vehicle) in May 2024 totaled 5,474  vehicles (representing 13.0% of the total vehicle registrations in Thailand, RY.1, totaling 45,101 vehicles).

Top 15 rankings with highest registration numbers in May 2024

• Number 1 BYD Atto 3 : 850 cars
• Number 2 BYD Dolphin: 844 units
• 3rd place ChangAn Deepal S07 : 633 units
• Number 4 MG 4 Electric: 624 cars
• 5th place NETA V : 365 cars
• Number 6 Aion Y Plus : 315 cars
• Number 7: Tesla Model 3: 279 cars
• Number 8 BYD Seal: 236 units
• Number 9 GWM ORA Goodcat : 187 cars
• Number 10 Volvo XC40 EV: 109 cars
• Number 11 GWM ORA 07 : 106 cars
• No. 12 Tesla Model Y: 105 cars
• No. 13 MG EP : 103 cars
• Number 14 Aion ES : 102 cars
• Number 15 Volvo C40 : 100 cars

 

 

 

 

Statistics on cumulative registrations of 100% electric trains in Thailand

• Year 2020: January - December 2020, total 1,056 cars.
• Year 2021: January - December 2021, total 1,935 cars.
• Year 2022: January - December 2022, total 9,729 cars.
• Year 2023: January - December 2023, total 76,314 cars.
  • An increase of 66,585 units from the previous year, a growth of +684.4%.
• Year 2024: January - May '24, total 31,851 cars.

The total number of 100% electric vehicle registrations in Thailand in May 2024 totaled 5,474 vehicles, accounting for 13.0% of the total number of 45,101 vehicle registrations nationwide.

 

**********************************

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

I see SangSom is once again in top spot as the bestselling rum in Thailand. 

 

I see a butt-load of those Atto 3s in Bangkok. Seeing a lot more Teslas now, and even a few of the "new" Ora 07s

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 6/11/2024 at 11:32 AM, vinny41 said:

There is a huge incentive for EV dealers and Brands to get their vehicles registered asap as they sell the vehicles with the EV3.0 or currently EV 3.5 subsidy applied however they don't receive the subsidy from the government until the vehicle is registered 

The only incentive Suzuki have for getting their vehicles registered is to get those figures into the monthly stats published by the DLT

https://web.dlt.go.th/statistics/index.php

 

Add July, August and possibly September to the 43,981 units BYD has already sold in Thailand 🇹🇭 and they will be close to 50k.

It will limited how many units they can produce locally in 2024, so they will have to produce 1.5x that number in 2025.

Is that even possible and what happens if they don't match their sales numbers?

[mistral53]

This is probably why some countries are in total freak-out mode: The first 17 cars on the list are all made in China....... the dominance is palpable.

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

This is probably why some countries are in total freak-out mode: The first 17 cars on the list are all made in China....... the dominance is palpable.

Attacking a shore near you...

[mistral53]

Then there is this:

 

https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/12/chery-confirmed-jaguar-land-rover-will-adopt-chinese-e0x-and-m3x-platforms/

[ExpatOilWorker]

17.4% is a big victory for BYD.

 

[Pib]

22 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

17.4% is a big victory for BYD.

 

 

Looks like BYD's cooperation in the investigation ended up giving them potentially several percentage points pricing advantage in EU over their Chinese competitors assuming the EU and China authorities don't come to some agreement.

 

[vinny41]

25 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

This is probably why some countries are in total freak-out mode: The first 17 cars on the list are all made in China....... the dominance is palpable.

 

21 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

17.4% is a big victory for BYD.

 

These additional tariffs are extra to the existing 10% tariffs which means

BYD 27.4%

Geely 30%

SAIC: 48.1%

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/12/eu-to-slap-extra-tariffs-on-chinese-electric-cars-in-a-bid-to-close-competition-gap

Volvo moves production from China to Belgium

https://scandasia.com/volvo-moves-production-from-china-to-belgium/

Turkey currently has 50% import tariffs on Chinese EV imports from July 7 there will be an additional 40% tariff taking total import tariff to 90%

https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/11/turkey-surprisingly-impose-40-tariffs-on-chinese-evs-from-july-7/

[Pib]

In will be interesting to see how China retaliates due to the recent/ongoing raising of tariffs related to EVs built in China.   I'm sure western vehicle manufacturers who build their vehicles outside of China and sell a lot of vehicles in China are going to get hit hard.   

 

Yeap, a tariffs war between China, EU, and US is underway and is going to get bloodier.   Countries like Thailand will keep their heads low and just mumble we want to get along with everyone....what don't you all come build your vehicles in Thailand.

 

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

In will be interesting to see how China retaliates due to the recent/ongoing raising of tariffs related to EVs built in China.   I'm sure western vehicle manufacturers who build their vehicles outside of China and sell a lot of vehicles in China are going to get hit hard.   

 

Yeap, a tariffs war between China, EU, and US is underway and is going to get bloodier.   Countries like Thailand will keep their heads low and just mumble we want to get along with everyone....what don't you all come build your vehicles in Thailand.

 

It will be interesting how the EU Thailand FTA agreement goes  will the EU use the current 80%  import tariff on EU exports to Thailand as a starting position

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Add July, August and possibly September to the 43,981 units BYD has already sold in Thailand 🇹🇭 and they will be close to 50k.

It will limited how many units they can produce locally in 2024, so they will have to produce 1.5x that number in 2025.

Is that even possible and what happens if they don't match their sales numbers?

2022 BYD registrations 371
2023 BYD registrations 30,467 plus January 2024 registrations 7,806 Total 38,273+
2024 BYD registrations 5,036 excluding January 2024 registrations

I think EV 3.0 is for every vehicle sold until 31/12/2023 1 vehicle to be locally produced in 2024 and if the brand not able to produce locally in 2024 1.5 vehicles in 2025 and all batteries must be locally sourced from Jan 1st 2026

So for production 2024 BYD needs to locally  produce 38,644 to account for all sales up to 31st December 2023

For 2024 their total sales this year is 5,036 to date  so in 2025 so will need to locally produce 7,554 vehicles (equals 1.5x)

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 6/11/2024 at 5:30 PM, matchar said:

Some good news for BYD owners; replacement battery prices reduced up to 40%:

https://www.autospinn.com/2024/06/car-ev-byd-discount-hv-battery-price-up-to-40-137233

 

I guess they are trying to restore their reputation after the flooded Seal fiasco.

The full repair cost for the wet Seal.

At this price, the value of the body and electric drive train is only a few  100,000 baht 😀.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

10 hours ago, vinny41 said:

2022 BYD registrations 371
2023 BYD registrations 30,467 plus January 2024 registrations 7,806 Total 38,273+
2024 BYD registrations 5,036 excluding January 2024 registrations

I think EV 3.0 is for every vehicle sold until 31/12/2023 1 vehicle to be locally produced in 2024 and if the brand not able to produce locally in 2024 1.5 vehicles in 2025 and all batteries must be locally sourced from Jan 1st 2026

So for production 2024 BYD needs to locally  produce 38,644 to account for all sales up to 31st December 2023

For 2024 their total sales this year is 5,036 to date  so in 2025 so will need to locally produce 7,554 vehicles (equals 1.5x)

I think BYD will be struggling to produce even 20,000 vehicles in 2024.

They might be up running by September at 5,000 vehicles/month or a vehicle every 9 minutes. 

[JBChiangRai]

13 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

These additional tariffs are extra to the existing 10% tariffs which means

BYD 27.4%

Geely 30%

SAIC: 48.1%

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/12/eu-to-slap-extra-tariffs-on-chinese-electric-cars-in-a-bid-to-close-competition-gap

Volvo moves production from China to Belgium

https://scandasia.com/volvo-moves-production-from-china-to-belgium/

Turkey currently has 50% import tariffs on Chinese EV imports from July 7 there will be an additional 40% tariff taking total import tariff to 90%

https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/11/turkey-surprisingly-impose-40-tariffs-on-chinese-evs-from-july-7/

 

This begs the question, is the purpose of these tariffs to punish China for subsidising EV's or is it to level the playing field on price.

 

The first is justifiable, the second is naked protectionism.

 

The euronews article says "Duties in the 40-50% range – arguably even higher for vertically integrated manufacturers like BYD – would probably be necessary to make the European market unattractive for Chinese EV exporters," the Rhodium Group said in an April report.

 

Punishing BYD because they had the foresight to be vertically integrated in manufacture is naked protectionism and unjustifiable.  I'm pleased to see it didn't happen.

 

I hope the Chinese manufacturers respond by removing the EU premium on their prices.

 

10 hours ago, vinny41 said:

2022 BYD registrations 371
2023 BYD registrations 30,467 plus January 2024 registrations 7,806 Total 38,273+
2024 BYD registrations 5,036 excluding January 2024 registrations

I think EV 3.0 is for every vehicle sold until 31/12/2023 1 vehicle to be locally produced in 2024 and if the brand not able to produce locally in 2024 1.5 vehicles in 2025 and all batteries must be locally sourced from Jan 1st 2026

So for production 2024 BYD needs to locally  produce 38,644 to account for all sales up to 31st December 2023

For 2024 their total sales this year is 5,036 to date  so in 2025 so will need to locally produce 7,554 vehicles (equals 1.5x)

 

I don't agree with you fudging the figures for a year by removing January numbers from the year.  A massive proportion of January registrations were actually delivered to the customer in January.

 

As soon as you start fudging figures because "you want to", we're on a slippery slope.  The figures published for the year can't be tampered with because you believe they are orders from the previous year, if you are going to do that you MUST prove there are no January deliveries included in there, if you can't do that, you must accept the figures.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

This begs the question, is the purpose of these tariffs to punish China for subsidising EV's or is it to level the playing field on price.

 

The first is justifiable, the second is naked protectionism.

 

The euronews article says "Duties in the 40-50% range – arguably even higher for vertically integrated manufacturers like BYD – would probably be necessary to make the European market unattractive for Chinese EV exporters," the Rhodium Group said in an April report.

 

Punishing BYD because they had the foresight to be vertically integrated in manufacture is naked protectionism and unjustifiable.  I'm pleased to see it didn't happen.

 

I hope the Chinese manufacturers respond by removing the EU premium on their prices.

 

 

I don't agree with you fudging the figures for a year by removing January numbers from the year.  A massive proportion of January registrations were actually delivered to the customer in January.

 

As soon as you start fudging figures because "you want to", we're on a slippery slope.  The figures published for the year can't be tampered with because you believe they are orders from the previous year, if you are going to do that you MUST prove there are no January deliveries included in there, if you can't do that, you must accept the figures.

I am not fudging the figures as you stated  BYD have clearly stated they were on target to sell  approx 40,000 vehicles in 2023

BYD reveals plans to enter the EV market next year, pointing out that electric car measures 3.5 will push prices up

Rever has set "cautious, but realistic targets" for this year, after delivering 40,000 BYD cars in 2023.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/EV-makers-offer-deep-discounts-as-Thai-auto-market-weakens

Mr. Wisit Pittayawiriyakul Managing Director of Reve Automotive Co., Ltd., the sole official importer and distributor of “BYD” electric cars in Thailand, revealed that BYD's electric car marketing in Thailand is considered successful. Success beyond expectations This year, it is confident that sales will reach 40,000 vehicles

https://www.thairath.co.th/news/auto/2749643?fbclid=IwAR3o8g0oqfqUZa5ocM0aVs0Nxcu3Fcc5XnoJhce6TEm1833FY6ozh2oxX1g

Your claim ".  A massive proportion of January registrations were actually delivered to the customer in January."  you have no evidence to support that claim

Now we see from the Thairath report that BYD  didn't know how EV 3.5 would affect pricing in 2024 

Buyers would have been told in December to qualify for the EV 3.0 subsidy vehicle needed to be purchased by 23:59 31st December 2023 and vehicle to be registered by 31st January 2024

It is in BYD own interest to state their final sales figures on 23:59 31st December 2023 as that affects the number of vehicles locally produced in 2024 a straight one to one ratio

Sales for 2024 are based on a 1.5 ratio to number of sales

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

Your claim ".  A massive proportion of January registrations were actually delivered to the customer in January."  you have no evidence to support that claim

 

 

Much of what you said is waffle and irrelevant to the numbers published for a year.

 

It's not down to me to prove the figures published are accurate, it's down to you to disprove the figures published if you want to use your own.

 

My neighbour took to delivery of a pickup in January this year and got his white plate a week later.  It's entirely likely that a good proportion of January figures are January deliveries, prove they are not.

 

[vinny41]

39 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I think BYD will be struggling to produce even 20,000 vehicles in 2024.

They might be up running by September at 5,000 vehicles/month or a vehicle every 9 minutes. 

BYD Thailand have a target of 150,000 vehicles per year with a local minimum content of at least 40% from day 1

so approx 12,500 vehicles a month so meeting the requirements of EV 3.0 is potential possible I assume that they would keep 10,000 vehicles for domestic sales to avoid flooding the domestic market and 40,000 vehicles for export

https://cnevpost.com/2024/03/29/byd-ev-plant-thailand-to-start-production-q3/#:~:text=

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Much of what you said is waffle and irrelevant to the numbers published for a year.

 

It's not down to me to prove the figures published are accurate, it's down to you to disprove the figures published if you want to use your own.

 

My neighbour took to delivery of a pickup in January this year and got his white plate a week later.  It's entirely likely that a good proportion of January figures are January deliveries, prove they are not.

 

You appear to be disputing that BYD sold nearly 40,000 vehicles in 2023 ignoring the statements by BYD that they sold nearly 40,000 vehicles in 2023

On January 8th Autolife Thailand published that BYD total registrations for 2023 was  30,650 cars clearly that number didn't include the 7,806 vehicles that were sold in 2023 but registered in January 2024

https://autolifethailand.tv/total-ev-bev-register-2023-thailand/

[ExpatOilWorker]

13 hours ago, vinny41 said:

It will be interesting how the EU Thailand FTA agreement goes  will the EU use the current 80%  import tariff on EU exports to Thailand as a starting position

@vinny41, you are usually on point, but the above doesn't make sense. 

Did you mean "EU exports FROM Thailand"?