15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, but that was not the point. The point was that GM, a large manufacture pulled out of Thailand. 

 

And while you would not by a GM vehicle, they were building the best-selling brand in China for a long while, and they were the best-selling manufacturer in the world for even longer. 

 

So, there's that. 

And Budweiser is/was one of the best selling beers ... nuff said

4 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

My point is that you are in the wrong discussion and your post is

 

 

There are plenty of discussions for EV bashing and this is not one of them

You are welcome to start your own 

 

“EVs on the main road between LA and Las Vegas” discussion

 

 

 

Then notify a moderator and banish me to Aseannow purgatory.  

59 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, but that was not the point. The point was that GM, a large manufacture pulled out of Thailand. 

 

And while you would not by a GM vehicle, they were building the best-selling brand in China for a long while, and they were the best-selling manufacturer in the world for even longer. 

 

So, there's that. 

 

No one has a crystal ball. I am sure no one ever thought Nokia or Kodak would go belly up. But GM were never a mainstream brand in Thailand although they did manufacture and export from here. I wouldn't consider a GM because their cars are all naff but I definitely wouldn't have considered them in Thailand in the same way I wouldn't consider a Peugeot, Seat or Citroen in Thailand - you never know when they might disappear as they don't sell enough.

Nikkei Asia is jumping on the bandwagon of China EV bashing with a very low rent hit piece that is full of fake news - to wit, they claim there are 490,000 unsold Chines EVs in Thailand, which is basically forcing the Japanese car manufacturers to shut down their factories here.

 

From  Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT:

 

'Been in the auto industry for over 23 years, countless interviews in the media, but never has the information been so distorted by Nikkei news.
“Thailand now has 490,000 unsold EVs, according to the Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand (EVAT), equivalent to 63% of all vehicles the country turned out in the past 12 months.“
I want to clarify that the above information is not from me and the Thai Electric Motor Association สมาคมยานยนต์ไฟฟ้าไทย Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT The number of 490,000 cars. I'm referring to the production capacity forecast of 7 electric car companies that enter EV 3.0 and it has nothing to do with the unsold electric car numbers. But NIKEI News Agency provides information that distorts reality differently.
Note: Last year, Thailand registered electric cars for the whole year about 76,000 cars and electric car registrations accumulated at the end of May. 2567 around 121,000 cars. How can we have more than 490,000 electric cars stock?'

 

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Electric-vehicles/Thai-subsidies-for-Chinese-EV-makers-wreak-havoc-on-auto-sector

 

edit: It appears Nikkei Asia just modified their original (dated July 26) and removed the 490,000 unsold EVs......... took them 2 days, their intentions seems obvious!

Apparently Mr Toyota's stuffed envelope only funded 2 days of EV misinformation with Nikkei Asia.  

1 hour ago, mistral53 said:

Nikkei Asia is jumping on the bandwagon of China EV bashing with a very low rent hit piece that is full of fake news - to wit, they claim there are 490,000 unsold Chines EVs in Thailand, which is basically forcing the Japanese car manufacturers to shut down their factories here.

 

From  Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT:

 

'Been in the auto industry for over 23 years, countless interviews in the media, but never has the information been so distorted by Nikkei news.
“Thailand now has 490,000 unsold EVs, according to the Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand (EVAT), equivalent to 63% of all vehicles the country turned out in the past 12 months.“
I want to clarify that the above information is not from me and the Thai Electric Motor Association สมาคมยานยนต์ไฟฟ้าไทย Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT The number of 490,000 cars. I'm referring to the production capacity forecast of 7 electric car companies that enter EV 3.0 and it has nothing to do with the unsold electric car numbers. But NIKEI News Agency provides information that distorts reality differently.
Note: Last year, Thailand registered electric cars for the whole year about 76,000 cars and electric car registrations accumulated at the end of May. 2567 around 121,000 cars. How can we have more than 490,000 electric cars stock?'

 

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Electric-vehicles/Thai-subsidies-for-Chinese-EV-makers-wreak-havoc-on-auto-sector

 

edit: It appears Nikkei Asia just modified their original (dated July 26) and removed the 490,000 unsold EVs......... took them 2 days, their intentions seems obvious!

 

Do you have a link to a source for that @mistral53 ?

38 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Do you have a link to a source for that @mistral53 ?

I jumped off the FB page of the 'EV Club Thailand' to get to this..... I hope the below link works:

 

https://www.facebook.com/jkrisda/posts/pfbid02ECdgMSvcaqRmqRmJegGSAAvtAGTnRwWKNUunRiYXBHsTAKQu7MqcdukS2J9AhRFvl

 

or directly to the EVAT FB page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/EVAT2015

13 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

50 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Do you have a link to a source for that @mistral53 ?

I jumped off the FB page of the 'EV Club Thailand' to get to this..... I hope the below link works:

 

https://www.facebook.com/jkrisda/posts/pfbid02ECdgMSvcaqRmqRmJegGSAAvtAGTnRwWKNUunRiYXBHsTAKQu7MqcdukS2J9AhRFvl

 

or directly to the EVAT FB page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/EVAT2015

 

OK, we get it now. It's a post from a FB poster, who even makes clear that he can't voice for the credibility of what he REposted, but it is taken as a truth by the EV wokes.

2 hours ago, CallumWK said:

EV wokes.

Would you mind defining this term?

2 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Would you mind defining this term?

Woke guys that drive EVs 

On 7/27/2024 at 8:24 PM, Pib said:

 

There is an article in the 27 July 2024 Bangkok Post titled, EV owners upset as second-meter system scrapped, which basically says PEA will no longer allow the installation of a 2nd meter in a home/small business for EV vehicle charging.  The article  said the policy change is due to misuse of 2nd meter.   

 

Now this means a person would need to possibly upgrade their primary meter and assoicated wiring to also handle the extra EV load which could be much more expensive than having a 2nd meter and associated wiring installed. 

 

People who currently who have already requested a 2nd meter or have a 2nd meter installed are not affected although PEA said they reserve the right to take necessary action if misuse is identified. 

 

I wonder if MEA will follow suit?  I also have a gut feeling PEA will soon have to back-peddle on their decision.

 

 

 

 

From looking at the latest MEA, repeat, MEA (not PEA) EV Charger Promotion it does not show or mention use of a 2nd meter like their earlier EV charger promotions.  MEA is for the Bangkok metro area.  The latest promotion (below) which seems to address the case of needing a 2nd main line from the meter to a circuit breaker box shows a Main Line to the home main circuti box and also a 2nd Main Line going to the EV charger circuit breaker.  I fully expect the 2nd main line would be an above ground even if a person current main line is underground..

 

Apparently both main lines merge and then connect to "one" meter on the pole...does not show an option for a 2nd meter like maybe a TOU meter (or even regular meter) for the EV charger.   Instead only one meter would be used....the resident would probably need to chose to run the entire home and EV charger under regular meter tarraff or TOU meter tariff...not allowed to have a regular meter "and" TOU in a typical residential situation.

 

I expect most (not all) people would go with the regular meter tariff since the power used by home (i.e., A/Cs, TVs, heaters, etc.) throughout a 24 hour period 7 days a week would probably exceed EV power usage used periodically thru the week for a short period(s).  And a person would probably prefer not worrying about trying to avoid peak usage periods when powering the home electrical equipment like A/Cs, TVs, water heaters, etc).  But I realize some people can get by just fine using a TOU meter 24/7 and actually save a significant amount....each person's power usage requirements will be different...especially when they need to use certain electrical equipment and various other reasons.

 

 

https://www.mea.or.th/other-services/ken/S3Lhgkpt/ev-charger

 

@Yellowtail You cannot define a word by using the word itself

 

It would be a circular definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_definition

 

 

 

I can see why they would take a 2nd line back to the same meter.  There will be a voltage drop across the cable when you are drawing 7Kw charging your EV and in many cases the overhead cables may not be strong enough to support 7Kw EV plus a few Aircons/Instantaneous water heaters etc.

 

If & when I build and downsize to a smaller house, I will go for a TOU meter and Grid-Tied solar, still charging the car when the sun is out but my overnight aircon would be cheaper.

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

If & when I build and downsize to a smaller house, I will go for a TOU meter and Grid-Tied solar, still charging the car when the sun is out but my overnight aircon would be cheaper.

 

no ESS? or would you use your car battery as ESS?

On 7/27/2024 at 8:24 PM, Pib said:

 

There is an article in the 27 July 2024 Bangkok Post titled, EV owners upset as second-meter system scrapped, which basically says PEA will no longer allow the installation of a 2nd meter in a home/small business for EV vehicle charging.  The article  said the policy change is due to misuse of 2nd meter.   

 

Now this means a person would need to possibly upgrade their primary meter and assoicated wiring to also handle the extra EV load which could be much more expensive than having a 2nd meter and associated wiring installed. 

 

People who currently who have already requested a 2nd meter or have a 2nd meter installed are not affected although PEA said they reserve the right to take necessary action if misuse is identified. 

 

I wonder if MEA will follow suit?  I also have a gut feeling PEA will soon have to back-peddle on their decision.

 

 

 

I just realised.  These digital meters are doing much more than recording units.  They are connected to the internet with GSM and feeding back instantaneous data (but probably by batch).

 

So PEA/MEA can see the load at any instant, clearly they have seen low loads (a lot less than 7Kw charging) on these meters and therefore know they are being abused and can take an educated guess on what appliances are running from them.

 

I'm not terribly happy about them knowing when I turn on a light, or a kettle.  Understanding Thailand 4.0 (as I do), I realise this usage data is being stored centrally by the Government against the Citizen's ID.

 

Thailand 4.0 is all about centralising & catching all data on all Thai citizens in a digital format.

 

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I can see why they would take a 2nd line back to the same meter.  There will be a voltage drop across the cable when you are drawing 7Kw charging your EV and in many cases the overhead cables may not be strong enough to support 7Kw EV plus a few Aircons/Instantaneous water heaters etc.

 

If & when I build and downsize to a smaller house, I will go for a TOU meter and Grid-Tied solar, still charging the car when the sun is out but my overnight aircon would be cheaper.

 

4 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

no ESS? or would you use your car battery as ESS?

 

I would use my car as ESS, probably from 6pm until bedtime and then over to PEA in anticipation of cheap rate.

 

I do have 28.8KwHrs of ESS now, I don't use it.  My other issue with ESS is the life of them, if you are cycling every day they may need replacing in 10 years.  If they cost 200k THB then that's about 1,500 THB per month to knock off your savings.

19 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Last time I checked there are more and more EV's (mostly Chinese made) are on the roads of Thailand. 

That’s because China is the leading manufacturer of EVs in the world. It’s rather advanced mathematics so understandably, not everyone gets it.

 

It’s a bit like saying there are more Thais in Thailand than in any other country in the world.

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I just realised.  These digital meters are doing much more than recording units.  They are connected to the internet with GSM and feeding back instantaneous data (but probably by batch).

 

So PEA/MEA can see the load at any instant, clearly they have seen low loads (a lot less than 7Kw charging) on these meters and therefore know they are being abused and can take an educated guess on what appliances are running from them.

 

I'm not terribly happy about them knowing when I turn on a light, or a kettle.  Understanding Thailand 4.0 (as I do), I realise this usage data is being stored centrally by the Government against the Citizen's ID.

 

Thailand 4.0 is all about centralising & catching all data on all Thai citizens in a digital format.

 

Interesting thought. I fitted a couple of sockets with my second TOU EV meter which I sometimes use for granny charging, albeit very rarely. When PEA came to inspect the installation, they didn’t mention anything about it. Possibly at that time, abuse wasn’t an issue.

6 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Interesting thought. I fitted a couple of sockets with my second TOU EV meter which I sometimes use for granny charging, albeit very rarely. When PEA came to inspect the installation, they didn’t mention anything about it. Possibly at that time, abuse wasn’t an issue.

 

So they will see 6-7Kw or around 2Kw.  They won't be seeing a varying load with kettles, aircons, water heaters etc.  They are using AI to look for specific usage patterns I guess.

 

It could be done by PEA/MEA or it could be done by the government who scrape all digital data from stakeholders like PEA.  It's unlikely the government would do that unless you're an anti-government activist or a MFP candidate 😉

50 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

@Yellowtail You cannot define a word by using the word itself

 

It would be a circular definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_definition

 

 

 

EV wokes is not a word, it's a two-word acronym and a third word. I'm surprised you didn't know that. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I just realised.  These digital meters are doing much more than recording units.  They are connected to the internet with GSM and feeding back instantaneous data (but probably by batch).

 

So PEA/MEA can see the load at any instant, clearly they have seen low loads (a lot less than 7Kw charging) on these meters and therefore know they are being abused and can take an educated guess on what appliances are running from them.

 

I'm not terribly happy about them knowing when I turn on a light, or a kettle.  Understanding Thailand 4.0 (as I do), I realise this usage data is being stored centrally by the Government against the Citizen's ID.

 

Thailand 4.0 is all about centralising & catching all data on all Thai citizens in a digital format.

 

You should get a graphing meter. 

14 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

OK, we get it now. It's a post from a FB poster, who even makes clear that he can't voice for the credibility of what he REposted, but it is taken as a truth by the EV wokes.

I made a habit of not replying to people that have reading comprehension problems - but then it occurred to me, that there is a also the possibility something got lost in translation, so I give you the benefit of the doubt: The 'FB poster' I linked to was the individual that was interviewed by Nikkei Asia, and misquoted - so that makes him a very credible source to comment on the misinformation spread by Nikkei Asia.

 

If you want to rant about the 'truth', it is critical to get your ducks in a row, throwing around derogatory terms is not supporting truth........better leave that to the politicians. On second thought, maybe I should be proud to be labeled 'EV woke' - it makes this old fart look like I am still trailblazing, instead of being stuck in the 60's when I, too, was happily tottering around in modified ICE contraptions, making loud manly sounds, sucking clean air through four-barrel carburetors and blasting lead poisoned exhaust fumes into the pristine landscape.

6 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

I made a habit of not replying to people that have reading comprehension problems - but then it occurred to me, that there is a also the possibility something got lost in translation, so I give you the benefit of the doubt: The 'FB poster' I linked to was the individual that was interviewed by Nikkei Asia, and misquoted - so that makes him a very credible source to comment on the misinformation spread by Nikkei Asia.

 

If you want to rant about the 'truth', it is critical to get your ducks in a row, throwing around derogatory terms is not supporting truth........better leave that to the politicians. On second thought, maybe I should be proud to be labeled 'EV woke' - it makes this old fart look like I am still trailblazing, instead of being stuck in the 60's when I, too, was happily tottering around in modified ICE contraptions, making loud manly sounds, sucking clean air through four-barrel carburetors and blasting lead poisoned exhaust fumes into the pristine landscape.

Loud mufflers never sounded "manly", it always sounded like dumbass kids

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I just realised.  These digital meters are doing much more than recording units.  They are connected to the internet with GSM and feeding back instantaneous data (but probably by batch).

 

So PEA/MEA can see the load at any instant, clearly they have seen low loads (a lot less than 7Kw charging) on these meters and therefore know they are being abused and can take an educated guess on what appliances are running from them.

 

I'm not terribly happy about them knowing when I turn on a light, or a kettle.  Understanding Thailand 4.0 (as I do), I realise this usage data is being stored centrally by the Government against the Citizen's ID.

 

Thailand 4.0 is all about centralising & catching all data on all Thai citizens in a digital format.

 

Meanwhile, BYD and probably also the CCP are tracking everything in and around your Seal 🦭, including location, video and voice conversations. That is OK?

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Meanwhile, BYD and probably also the CCP are tracking everything in and around your Seal 🦭, including location, video and voice conversations. That is OK?

 

Good point.

 

Generally I don't mind being tracked so much, if you're a law-abiding citizen then you have nothing to fear and if it's available under a freedom of information request then it could even help you if you're accused of a crime and innocent and miles away.

 

 

Theft of catalytic converters is a big thing in the UK

 

I wonder when we will start seeing theft of EV battery packs?

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I just realised.  These digital meters are doing much more than recording units.  They are connected to the internet with GSM and feeding back instantaneous data (but probably by batch).

 

So PEA/MEA can see the load at any instant, clearly they have seen low loads (a lot less than 7Kw charging) on these meters and therefore know they are being abused and can take an educated guess on what appliances are running from them.

 

I'm not terribly happy about them knowing when I turn on a light, or a kettle.  Understanding Thailand 4.0 (as I do), I realise this usage data is being stored centrally by the Government against the Citizen's ID.

 

Thailand 4.0 is all about centralising & catching all data on all Thai citizens in a digital format.

 

 

Yeap.  Digital electric meters, whether digital TOU or non-TOU, are going the GSM or RFID communications route as that greatly reduces manpower required to go read the meters every month....no need for a meter-read to go eyeball some dials on a meter.  And like you also said digital meters can give the electric company much more detail about how and when a household uses electricity such as a certain TOU meter was installed for EV charging purposes but electrical useage might show it being constantly used or for much longer periods than it  typically takes to charge an EV, etc...etc...etc.....an easily tipoff to the electric company that maybe the TOU EV meter is really being used to power big electric motors, a drill press, a metal cutter machine, a welding machine, etc., as the household also happens to run a business where they live such as a 3 story shophouse where the ground floor is a business--LOTS of such townhouses in Thailand.        

 

By the way regarding electric meters.  My 30/100A analog non-TOU meter (i.e., regular meter) stopped measuring in June...that is, the big rotary dial stopped turning along with its little readout dials.   The same thing happenned about a dozen years ago...back then it took MEA 17 days to replace the meter.   Well, this time it took them 32 days to replace the analog meter  with another analog meter after we followed up around 5 times via email and telephone conversations with the MEA Call Center asking why it was taking so long to replace the meter.    But not until we visited a MEA Office in person on a Friday afternoon to talk this issue that we were told that MEA is temporaily "out of replacment" meters and it might take 3 months to get the replacement meter.   We had also talked to the MEA "meter reader" a day earlier who drove around to take the monthly readings in our neighborhood about getting a replacment meter and he said some people have experienced up to an 8 (eight) month delay in getting a replacement meter.  But anyway, apparently our in-person MEA office visit on a Friday made a difference as Monday morning our meter got replaced.   And for anyone wondering how MEA charges a person when the meter is inop/can't be read, well, the MEA office rep said they charge based on the "average" of your last 3 monthly  bills.  However, when we got our bill for the one month the meter couldn't be read (i.e., still broke...still awaiting replacement) MEA charged us "exactly to the stang/number of KWH unit" for what you had been charged for the previous month....not an average of the last three months.   Oh well....but I'm not upset as I know I probably used at least 10% more than the previous month.

 

Chinese EV show what it is made of.

 

 

Mr Toyota is still sending the stuffed envelopes.   Take a look at the 29 July 2024 Bangkok Post article titled: "Hybrids still greener, Japan seminar told"

 

The article states/implies Japan believes "hybrids" are the way to go; not BEV especially in places like SE Asia....even specifically talks Thailand.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Mr Toyota is still sending the stuffed envelopes.   Take a look at the 29 July 2024 Bangkok Post article titled: "Hybrids still greener, Japan seminar told"

 

The article states/implies Japan believes "hybrids" are the way to go; not BEV especially in places like SE Asia....even specifically talks Thailand.

 

 

What they stated is correct

Japan urges ASEAN to prioritise hybrids over EVs for sustainability

During the Economic Security and Supply Chains seminar, Yasuyuki Todo from the Faculty of Political Science and Economics at Waseda University cautioned ASEAN about over-relying on the electric vehicle (EV) industry. He pointed out that since Asean mainly depends on fossil fuels for energy production, EVs still indirectly consume non-renewable resources.

Todo suggested that ASEAN countries, including Thailand, should prioritise hybrid cars over EVs as a more practical solution for reducing carbon emissions. He remarked that Thailand is ready to advance beyond being a hub for car manufacturers and should instead focus on research and development.

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/japan-urges-asean-to-prioritise-hybrids-over-evs-for-sustainability