Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[HighPriority]

Just on your post below KhunLA, it seems that the pictures of every crashed Tesla I’ve seen, the vehicle is unrecognizable such is the damage.

As I think I’ve mentioned I recently went for a spin with my son in his Tesla in Brizvegas, Australia and the acceleration was breathtaking but how many drivers have the skill to handle that amount of power ?

Its fine for ev’s to have and promote such power but should they ?

 

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

 

 

BEVs perform well enough for me, not sure I need or would use any more hp/torque.  Longer range, realistically, how often will you really need it, especially in TH.   Do you really want to drive 4+ hours without a break ?

 

 

[Pib]

4 hours ago, transam said:

I thought it was an interesting perspective, worth reading....🤗

Thanks for the reply.....

One of his most laughable interesting points is around the 1:49 to 2:40 video timeframe when talks how many "...hundreds, if not thousands, of traction battery parts that move...not mechanically but microscopically...."   Now he was talking the chemical process of lithium ions and electrons flowing thru the battery because that's a how a lithium battery works in your phone, laptop, EV, etc.  Now what he was doing was trying to make an EV traction battery sound dangerous, scary, etc. 

 

I wonder if he had been an anti-ICEVer if he would have described the ICEV engine combustion process as a bio-logical warfare machine since the combustion process emits carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulfur, nitrogen dioxide, nitric oxide, and a variety of other harmful chemical compounds.  And if it can create on those dangerous compounds what if something goes really wrong during the combustion and a mini-black hole is created that destroys the Earth. 

 

I'm might have nightmares tonight about driving my Toyota Fortuner diesel.   And I may even dream about shrinking to the microscopic level and getting caught in a battery with all those scary moving ions and electrons.   My god....these EV and ICEV machines we drive are dangerous!!!!!   😜

 

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

One of his most laughable interesting points is around the 1:49 to 2:40 video timeframe when talks how many "...hundreds, if not thousands, of traction battery parts that move...not mechanically but microscopically...."   Now he was talking the chemical process of lithium ions and electrons following thru the battery because that's a how a lithium battery works in your phone, laptop, EV, etc.  Now what he was doing was trying to make an EV traction battery sound dangerous, scary, etc. 

 

I wonder if he had been an anti-ICEVer if he would have described the ICEV engine combustion process as a bio-logical warfare machine since the combustion process emits carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulfur, nitrogen dioxide, nitric oxide, and a variety of other harmful chemical compounds.  And if it can create on those dangerous compounds what if something goes really wrong during the combustion and a mini-black hole is created that destroys the Earth. 

 

I'm might have nightmares tonight about driving my Toyota Fortuner diesel.   And I may even dream about shrinking to the microscopic level and getting caught in a battery with all those scary moving ions and electrons.   My god....these EV and ICEV machines we drive are dangerous!!!!!   😜

 

 

Well, yeh...............😋

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, HighPriority said:

As I think I’ve mentioned I recently went for a spin with my son in his Tesla in Brizvegas, Australia and the acceleration was breathtaking but how many drivers have the skill to handle that amount of power ?

Its fine for ev’s to have and promote such power but should they ?

 

I think this is a fair question. Look at Volvo for example - a safety conscious brand who limit their cars to 180kmh top speed now and have a "zero fatality" aim in the future. I drive an ICE Volvo and the safety aspects are incredible.

But their EX30 does 0-100kmh in 3.6 seconds which is insane! It's a mini family SUV! I'm not sure why they make it so fast but personally I'm glad they do.

Generally I think most EV owners drive sensibly most of the time as you smash your battery if you are doing 0-100kmh standing starts all the time, but it is odd that companies such as Volvo allow such crazy acceleration. I wonder what the logic or science is behind it - there must be something.

 

[JBChiangRai]

I think driving a fast car can hone the skills of a driver. It's all about experience.

 

When I got my first fast car I remember thinking it was insane and how could anybody use all that power safely.  A few thousand miles later, I had a completely different opinion.

 

A powerful car can be a lot safer, maneuvers like overtaking can be completed much more safely.

 

 

[vinny41]

Electric vehicle acceleration poses 'risk and cost issues' for fleets

Greater rates of acceleration for electric vehicles (EVs), compared to their internal combustion engine (ICE) counterparts, is creating potential fleet risk management and cost issues, FleetCheck is warning.

Vehicles with this kind of performance would not just present a very real risk if drivers attempted to access the available performance on a public road, but there would be cost issues arising from excessive tyre and brake wear, he argues.

“Of course, there have been privately-owned cars on public roads that go this fast for some years, but the numbers have been tiny,” he continued.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/electric-vehicle-acceleration-poses-risk-and-cost-issues-for-fleets

If we see a major accident that kills a huge number of children due to excessive and dangerous EV vehicle acceleration I would expect immediate mandates from governments  to  liimited the vehicle acceleration

my understanding such a change would be implemented via a software update

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

If we see a major accident that kills a huge number of children due to excessive and dangerous EV vehicle acceleration I would expect immediate mandates from governments  to  liimited the vehicle acceleration

my understanding such a change would be implemented via a software update

 

I disagree.

 

To do that you would have to limit all cars with high performance.  What about all the BMW M variants, Mercedes AMG variants, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Porsche's.

 

What you are saying is impossible.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I disagree.

 

To do that you would have to limit all cars with high performance.  What about all the BMW M variants, Mercedes AMG variants, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Porsche's.

 

What you are saying is impossible.

Doesn't matter that you disagree or you think its impossible 

all it will take is a large number of child deaths and it will happen

There is a company that offers a hardware based solution so software solutions will be available

Here are some of the benefits on restricting  acceleration

The advantages of a RPM limiter:

Increased mileage from a full battery charge.

Enhanced comfort for passengers.

Up to 20% longer range. Reduced wear and tear on brakes and tires.

Improved efficiency of your vehicle.

Configurable in combination with a speed limiter.

https://www.zemco.eu/blogs/accelerator-limiter/

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Electric vehicle acceleration poses 'risk and cost issues' for fleets

Greater rates of acceleration for electric vehicles (EVs), compared to their internal combustion engine (ICE) counterparts, is creating potential fleet risk management and cost issues, FleetCheck is warning.

Vehicles with this kind of performance would not just present a very real risk if drivers attempted to access the available performance on a public road, but there would be cost issues arising from excessive tyre and brake wear, he argues.

“Of course, there have been privately-owned cars on public roads that go this fast for some years, but the numbers have been tiny,” he continued.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/electric-vehicle-acceleration-poses-risk-and-cost-issues-for-fleets

If we see a major accident that kills a huge number of children due to excessive and dangerous EV vehicle acceleration I would expect immediate mandates from governments  to  liimited the vehicle acceleration

my understanding such a change would be implemented via a software update

As stated, fast cars have been around forever, and folks that buy them, will usually drive them fast.

 

Inexperienced drivers, no matter, ICEV or EV, will have a learning curve and or, oops

 

Experienced drivers of ICEV, will have to adapt to the no noise or vibrations of an EV.   Also a learning curve, and or, oops.

 

I find myself driving much faster at times, and why I use cruise control on the highway, as if not, I'll be exceeding the speed limit, as the ride is that much more comfy.

 

That's why PoPO train at high speeds with the siren on, to get used to driving at speed, without hearing the engines, as very hard to judge sometimes, speed and handling without that reference.

 

Also a reason why driving with headphones is illegal in many places, and not necessarily, so you can hear emergency vehicles or other traffic.

 

 

[vinny41]

Porsche InnoDrive

Porsche InnoDrive offers optimised speed control for additional comfort, higher efficiency and a driving experience typical for Porsche. Based on navigation data together with radar and video sensors, the driving speed is predictively adapted to speed limits and road topology (gradients, bends). Acceleration and deceleration (including coasting) are controlled by Porsche InnoDrive. The system's ability to anticipate distances of up to three kilometres, as well as real-time optimisation of the driving strategy, enable harmonious and efficient journeys. Porsche InnoDrive also automatically adjusts the speed to allow for bends, roundabouts and speed limits. It detects the distance to the vehicle in front and controls it even when a vehicle cuts in from the side.

The basic design of the system is engineered for maximum comfort. It optimises the driving style in order to achieve the highest possible degree of smoothness with as few acceleration and braking processes as possible.

https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/taycan/en/porsche-taycan/die-assistenzsysteme

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Doesn't matter that you disagree or you think its impossible 

all it will take is a large number of child deaths and it will happen

There is a company that offers a hardware based solution so software solutions will be available

Here are some of the benefits on restricting  acceleration

The advantages of a RPM limiter:

Increased mileage from a full battery charge.

Enhanced comfort for passengers.

Up to 20% longer range. Reduced wear and tear on brakes and tires.

Improved efficiency of your vehicle.

Configurable in combination with a speed limiter.

https://www.zemco.eu/blogs/accelerator-limiter/

 

Nonsense.  I can see businesses with fleets doing this voluntarily, but governments mandating it, it's not going to happen, it doesn't matter how many children are killed.

 

A similar approach to that with motorbikes might be possible.  Age restricted on driving licences (say up to 150 hp under 25 years old). 
A normal driving licence and a Supercar driving licence, possibly with mandated extra training needed for high performance cars is another possibility.

 

Fitting limiters only to EV's will never happen, it's like saying only the rich can drive fast cars (they buy Porsche's etc).  Impossible, political suicide.

 

You haven't thought it through Vinny.

 

Regarding Porsche Innodrive, my BYD has the same thing, Intelligent Cruise Control, it will slow you down at changing speed limits and restore to high speed afterwards.  It's here today, but it's nothing to do with restricting power.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Nonsense.  I can see businesses with fleets doing this voluntarily, but governments mandating it, it's not going to happen, it doesn't matter how many children are killed.

 

A similar approach to that with motorbikes might be possible.  Age restricted on driving licences (say up to 150 hp under 25 years old). 
A normal driving licence and a Supercar driving licence, possibly with mandated extra training needed for high performance cars is another possibility.

 

Fitting limiters only to EV's will never happen, it's like saying only the rich can drive fast cars (they buy Porsche's etc).  Impossible, political suicide.

 

You haven't thought it through Vinny.

 

Regarding Porsche Innodrive, my BYD has the same thing, Intelligent Cruise Control, it will slow you down at changing speed limits and restore to high speed afterwards.  It's here today, but it's nothing to do with restricting power.

Goverments will mandate if people are killed in high numbers especially if the high numbers are children

 

[Yellowtail]

It's generally speed that is related to deaths, not the rate of acceleration.

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Goverments will mandate if people are killed in high numbers especially if the high numbers are children

 

 

So do you see them mandating only fast EV's or BMW M series cars too?

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Goverments will mandate if people are killed in high numbers especially if the high numbers are children

 

Doubtful, as so many other product, hobbies, sports can be harmful to children.  Look at the crap that they allow them to eat.  

 

And who is to judge, the same folks that force experimental drugs / vaccines on people, or the ones that think men can get pregnant.  The folks that allow diesel vehicles in urban areas.

 

You can't ban and or restrict products because people are irresponsible.  What next, sharp knives, bicycle, sports.   If you could, they would have done that a long time ago.  Wouldn't be hard to put speed limiters on all vehicles to do the speed limit, down to 55 mph or 90 kph.

 

Stricter enforcement of current laws apparently doesn't work, as USA is quite strict with traffic laws, and yet, far from the safest country to drive in.

 

You could end most of the MVA deaths in TH, by simply banning driving a MC without a helmet, and 2nd time caught, confiscate the MC.  Within a few months, everyone would be wearing a helmet.

 

I'm all for freedom of most things, just adjust the law, so that others aren't responsible.  Kill someone on a MC, without a helmet, no matter who's fault, the striking vehicle following the law, isn't responsible, and the idiot doesn't get compensated or covered by insurance.

 

Easy solutions, but not in the present societies we live in.  Lawsuits is an industry within itself ... profits are #1

 

Idiots walk & drive among us ... defensive driving.   Speed kills, teach you kids that, and how to drive, and they'll live longer ... maybe.

 

Parents need to start being parents, not friends to their kids.

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

So do you see them mandating only fast EV's or BMW M series cars too?

The scope of any such mandate would be down to the people putting forward such laws

if you go to MG and ask them to give you a written guarantee that they will never limited  or place restrictions on EV  acceleration

I would expect the stock answer will be they have no plans to  limited  or place restrictions on EV  acceleration all our cars currently comply with Thai laws

but i suspect they will never provide you with a written guarantee that would put them in direct conflict if a law was passed in the future

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It's generally speed that is related to deaths, not the rate of acceleration.

Yep.  I usually drive in 'ECO' mode, as more than powerful enough.  Switched to sport mode a while back, as wanted to use up the battery as much as possible, before getting home, from Hua Hin, 100 kms away.  Wanting to get down to that 10% to do a battery equalizing.

 

I was punching it at every opportunity, what a difference, but failed miserably, because I only get to the speed limit faster, and that's about it.   Then the kWh per 100 kms, really didn't change much at all, since once rolling along, at speed limit, there basically is no difference.   I think there's only like 5 or 6 traffic lights between HH & PKK that I could even punch it at.  All of 1 minute total in actually 'sport' mode over 100 kms 

 

Now if I was playing in an urban setting, yes, that would be dangerous, but again, it's the speed limit violating, that would be the issue, not getting to it.  As that would only take a few seconds.

[JBChiangRai]

23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

So do you see them mandating only fast EV's or BMW M series cars too?

 

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The scope of any such mandate would be down to the people putting forward such laws

if you go to MG and ask them to give you a written guarantee that they will never limited  or place restrictions on EV  acceleration

I would expect the stock answer will be they have no plans to  limited  or place restrictions on EV  acceleration all our cars currently comply with Thai laws

but i suspect they will never provide you with a written guarantee that would put them in direct conflict if a law was passed in the future

 

That my friend is what we call a "cop out".

 

They would go the driving licence route first (IMHO).

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It's generally speed that is related to deaths, not the rate of acceleration.

 

Yes and no...  (IMO of course)...

 

People get familiar with a certain level of acceleration....  and thus, in EV's the acceleration is a lot faster than a conventional ICE and they reach 'speed' a lot sooner....  Thus acceleration is a factor as higher speeds can be achieved more readily in a short distance, also the 'quietness' of EV's is also a factor as people are more aware of speed when its noisier. 

 

Thus: The rate of acceleration could be a factor in contributing to accidents, however, the newer cars have far more driver aids which also makes cars a lot safer.

 

 

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Yes and no...  (IMO of course)...

 

People get familiar with a certain level of acceleration....  and thus, in EV's the acceleration is a lot faster than a conventional ICE and they reach 'speed' a lot sooner....  Thus acceleration is a factor as higher speeds can be achieved more readily in a short distance, also the 'quietness' of EV's is also a factor as people are more aware of speed when its noisier. 

 

Thus: The rate of acceleration could be a factor in contributing to accidents, however, the newer cars have far more driver aids which also makes cars a lot safer.

 

 

 

 

You are correct...........😉

Plus, quick ICE cars have higher insurance premiums for a reason...🤗

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, transam said:

You are correct...........😉

Plus, quick ICE cars have higher insurance premiums for a reason...🤗

 

Shock! Horror!

 

Transam can be sensible!

[transam]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Shock! Horror!

 

Transam can be sensible!

How did you get on in the vegetable forum..........?  

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Shock! Horror!

 

Transam can be sensible!

I heard about that happening once before eight or nine years ago but wasn't sure if it was a fable. 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, transam said:

You are correct...........😉

Plus, quick ICE cars have higher insurance premiums for a reason...🤗

 

All of the cars I have previously owned in Thailand have had 'any driver' insurance (first class).

 

With our EV, we could not have 'any driver' - both my Wife and I had to be Named Drivers - we were told this is an insurance regulation for EV's.

 

I'm not sure how true that is - its difficult to find out unless calling lots of insurance companies, and asking others on this forum etc  (but it was 1st year insurance included with the car so there was little we could do about it).

 

 

When your EV is as fast 0-100 kmh as the Ferrari Testarossa was... then I can see why the insurance companies want to be more careful. 

[transam]

Just now, josephbloggs said:

I heard about that happening once before eight or nine years ago but wasn't sure if it was a fable. 

Another from the vegetable forum, though I don't like Turnips.........🤗...........

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

How did you get on in the vegetable forum..........?  

 

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Another from the vegetable forum, though I don't like Turnips.........🤗...........

 

There is only one vegetable here, it's a Celery.

[transam]

28 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

There is only one vegetable here, it's a Celery.

So tell us motoring enthusiasts why you keep quoting "celery"............

I hope it is something sensible..Go for it.....🤭

[vinny41]

36 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

All of the cars I have previously owned in Thailand have had 'any driver' insurance (first class).

 

With our EV, we could not have 'any driver' - both my Wife and I had to be Named Drivers - we were told this is an insurance regulation for EV's.

 

I'm not sure how true that is - its difficult to find out unless calling lots of insurance companies, and asking others on this forum etc  (but it was 1st year insurance included with the car so there was little we could do about it).

 

 

When your EV is as fast 0-100 kmh as the Ferrari Testarossa was... then I can see why the insurance companies want to be more careful. 

Named drivers for EVs's came into force June 1st this year as part of changes to EV insurance

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

So tell us motoring enthusiasts why you keep quoting "celery"............

I hope it is something sensible..Go for it.....🤭

Stop it, you know why ... ex Celerio driver that you are / were 

[Yellowtail]

53 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Yes and no...  (IMO of course)...

 

People get familiar with a certain level of acceleration....  and thus, in EV's the acceleration is a lot faster than a conventional ICE and they reach 'speed' a lot sooner....  Thus acceleration is a factor as higher speeds can be achieved more readily in a short distance, also the 'quietness' of EV's is also a factor as people are more aware of speed when its noisier. 

 

Thus: The rate of acceleration could be a factor in contributing to accidents, however, the newer cars have far more driver aids which also makes cars a lot safer.

 

 

 

 

How often are people accelerating as fast as they can? I see a lot of EVs and they don't seem to be driving any differently than other vehicles.