£0.6bn a year to uprate UK pensions for Thai retirees

[webfact]

 

by Michael Bridge

Many of you signed the UK Government petition regarding our UK pensions being indexed linked.

Having reached over 10,000 signatures the UK government had to respond. Here is their response received this week.

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K.”.

 

Government responded:

There are no plans to change the policy. The Government continues to up-rate the State Pension where there is a legal requirement to do so.

The UK Government has no plans to change the current arrangements for payment of UK State Pension overseas.

The United Kingdom’s state pension system is primarily designed for the benefit of those who are resident in the UK. It is, however, payable worldwide and is uprated in the UK and also in countries abroad where there is a legal requirement to do so. 

This is a longstanding policy and has been implemented by successive Governments of all political persuasions for over 70 years. The policy has been the subject of Parliamentary debates over time and has been approved by Parliament and the Courts.

 

The rate of National Insurance contributions paid has never earned entitlement to the uprating of pensions payable abroad. This reflects the fact that the UK scheme is primarily designed for those living in the UK. 

 

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The National Insurance scheme operates on a “pay-as-you-go” basis. Contributions paid into the National Insurance Fund in any year finance contributory benefit expenditure in the same year. 

A person’s contributions provide a foundation for calculating their future benefit entitlement but do not actually pay for those benefits.

UK expenditure on health care costs depends on where the UK pensioner settles. While the location may be decided by the pensioner, individual countries have their own immigration policies in relation to older economically inactive people. 

Paying uprating to UK pension recipients in countries where it is not currently paid would mean an immediate increase in costs.

There are now around 1.2 million UK State Pension recipients who are overseas residents and around 0.5 million of them do not receive increases. 

The cost would be £0.6bn 

It would cost over £0.6bn extra a year to up-rate these pensions fully, that is to pay the pension at the rate that would be applicable if the pensioner had lived in the UK throughout. 

Paying future increases only would cost tens of millions in the short term but would lead to the cost of full uprating (£0.6bn) in the longer term as older pensioners died and new pensioners became entitled to fully up-rated state pensions.

Cost has always been a factor in deciding whether pension increases should be paid in overseas countries and successive governments have taken the view that it would be unfair to impose an additional burden on contributors and taxpayers in the UK to fund increased pensions for those who have chosen to live abroad. 

The Government concurs with that position. Ultimately, there is a choice for the individual to make where to live, and what the consequences are should that choice be somewhere other than the UK. 

The rules on uprating the State Pension are clear and well publicised. 

So, the choice to migrate or not remains a choice for the individual. 

 

UK State Pensions paid to people living outside the UK also go to people who migrated for economic or other reasons well before they reached pension age.

 

Department for Work and Pensions

Click this link to view the response online:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821?reveal_response=yes

 

The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. 

They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government.

 

Find out more about the Committee:

https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

 

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

So that’s the response probably written by some press officer or a junior secretary at the Pensions Department and then passed onto this Petitions team.

So, aren’t we worth a paltry £0.6bn a year??????

UK Defence spend

In 2020/21, defence spending amounted to £42.4 billion in cash terms. 

This represents a nominal increase of £2.5 billion on the previous year, and real terms increase of £1.7 billion.

Originally reported by The Economist, guided missile technology is one of the most expensive sectors in smart weaponry. 
 

A single medium to long-range subsonic Tomahawk cruise missile costs roughly $1.5 million, and 50kg air-to-ground Hellfire rockets cost an eye-watering $115,000 each.

If you are a UK MP, they can claim £9,000 a year just for their postage expenses. There are 650 elected MP’s so they can claim together £5,850,000 just on postage.

According to the Taxpayers Alliance, the total cost of MPs was up 6.47 per cent last year to £127.6 million, according to figures released today by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA).

The average cost of an MP was £157,747 in the 2019-20 financial year, which included expenses claims for travel and food of around £6,903 for each member of parliament. 

A further £718,733 was spent on hotel claims as part of the MPs’ accommodation budget. 

So, what I am trying to say is by just cutting back on a few missiles, or a rusty boat, we could eventually get a fair deal and receive the same monthly pension as folks retired in Spain or the Philippines.

 

-- © Copyright  ASEAN NOW 2022-05-12

 

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[oxmermaid]

As usual the standard clap trap response from the UK Government.

 

Sure it would cost them a shed load of money to bring the pensions inline with UK based pensioners, but what is not mentioned is the savings made by us 'exiles' not be a drain on the NHS and state care services. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the figure exceeded the quoted upgrade costs.

 

[itsari]

.6 billion pounds would be the cost if all pensioners living in countries that do not have reciprocal agreements with the UK were paid the yearly increase .

Not for only UK pensioners living in Thailand as the headline attempts to say .

[hotchilli]

So basically go swivel?

[ThaiFelix]

Well one solution would be to stop getting involved in pointless wars such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, that would save heaps for the pensions and save a lot of young mens lives.

[stephenterry]

And I'm still paying UK income tax, while not a lot, it's a slap in the face. I qualified for a full state pension when I was aged 61, but still they took NIC for the next four years. 

 

IMO, the reason the government is not paying Ex pats a full pension rise is that those pensioners in the UK will bleat that they are not being looked after. 

 

 

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Well one solution would be to stop getting involved in pointless wars such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, that would save heaps for the pensions and save a lot of young mens lives.

And spend a tiny percentage on eliminating Putin instead of supplying Ukraine with weapons. 

[nickmondo]

typical uk!!!!!!!!!!!

<deleted> on the people that have worked their whole lives, paid NI and Taxes

But if your illegal and arrive in a rubber boat, you are given multiple times the amount given to a pensioner!!

my advice.........keep a uk address, even if just a friend, and get all your mail, bank statements etc sent there for years.

also, take the money in any other way you can..........credit cards........loans.........anything..........and just tell them alll to get stuffed

[edwinchester]

"There are no plans to change the policy. The Government continues to up-rate the State Pension where there is a legal requirement to do so."

 

What is morally wrong should never be legally right.

[edwinchester]

4 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

typical uk!!!!!!!!!!!

<deleted> on the people that have worked their whole lives, paid NI and Taxes

But if your illegal and arrive in a rubber boat, you are given multiple times the amount given to a pensioner!!

my advice.........keep a uk address, even if just a friend, and get all your mail, bank statements etc sent there for years.

also, take the money in any other way you can..........credit cards........loans.........anything..........and just tell them alll to get stuffed

Illegal immigrants in the UK are not entitled to any Govt benefits.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-immigrant-benefits-uk-idUSKBN22J30G

[Flink]

3 hours ago, oxmermaid said:

As usual the standard clap trap response from the UK Government.

 

Sure it would cost them a shed load of money to bring the pensions inline with UK based pensioners, but what is not mentioned is the savings made by us 'exiles' not be a drain on the NHS and state care services. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the figure exceeded the quoted upgrade costs.

 

What IS a drain on the NHS is the millions they spend each year:

1. On teams of managers to manage a smaller team of nursing staff.

2. The hundreds of thousands of pounds (if not millions) they are forking out for Diversity, Inclusion and Equity officers in NHS trusts with pay scales from 70k upward each.

3. The millions each year spent treating illegal immigrants who already cost the UK 5 million a week to house and feed.

The NHS costs the British taxpayer 1.4 billion a week to run. Most of that goes to management teams and external contractors.

The pension payments overseas are an issue for me because of the disparity. If you choose to retire to one country you can get the increases, the country next to it you don't. Either give all overseas retirees the annual increases or none of them. 

[Flink]

10 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

Illegal immigrants in the UK are not entitled to any Govt benefits.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-immigrant-benefits-uk-idUSKBN22J30G

True, they are not "entitled" to benefits, that doesn't mean they are not getting them. They are housed in hotels and other accommodation at the tax payers expense, THAT is a benefit (not offered to the homeless ex-servicemen and women living rough on the streets). To be honest, I would be infavour of giving the "asylum" seekers picked up in the channel benefits...... in the form of a one way flight ticket to the Rwanda assessment centre.

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, edwinchester said:

Illegal immigrants in the UK are not entitled to any Govt benefits.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-immigrant-benefits-uk-idUSKBN22J30G

 

Though "Asylum Seekers" and refugees are, as are those who've been refused asylum, or at least get their basic needs funded.

 

The cost of detaining Illegal Immigrants is in the region of £100m per year, though most are housed in hostels and also get cash support via a cash card.

[Road Warrior]

its ok for us expats to pay tax to uk ,so can look after the daily influx of immigrants and asylum seekers so they RECEIVE unemployment claims .house allowance free health care and may be a state pension,

remember these people HAVE NEVER PAID A PENNY INCOME TAX/N.I  ever !!!  but expats get NIL AFTER PAYING IN THE SYSYEM FOR OUR 50 YRS WORKING of our life 

[Flink]

From Reuters Fact Check team:

"VERDICT

False. Illegal immigrants cannot receive benefits. While refugees are eligible to the same benefits as UK nationals, these are capped far below £29,900. A pensioner who has worked for 45 years would be entitled to a minimum of £6,981 a year.

This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our work to fact-check social media posts here ."

 

I have underlined the word "cannot" because it is a clever use of language by Reuters. Factually, they are correct, however, there is a big difference between "cannot" and "do not" a term they carefully avoided so as not to shoot their own fact check down in flames. Illegal immigrants arriving in the UK are housed (be it in hotels or other accommodation) fed, and given an allowance for personal spending. THESE ARE BENEFITS! They may not be State Benefits, as received by the British population, but they are still benefits. So, maybe someone needs to Fact Check the Fact Check.

 

[oobar]

Sympathy to our Brit friends.  It's a sh!tty deal.

[jippytum]

My friends in the UK had a long standing booking for a wedding reception at a five star hotel cancelled because the hotel was fully occupied with illegal immigrants that had arrived from France .

How can the government have the funds to accommodate immigrants in five star hotels and not pay  full pensions  to overseas residents who have paid a working lifetime of contributions and taxes to the government.

[edwinchester]

54 minutes ago, Flink said:

From Reuters Fact Check team:

"VERDICT

False. Illegal immigrants cannot receive benefits. While refugees are eligible to the same benefits as UK nationals, these are capped far below £29,900. A pensioner who has worked for 45 years would be entitled to a minimum of £6,981 a year.

This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our work to fact-check social media posts here ."

 

I have underlined the word "cannot" because it is a clever use of language by Reuters. Factually, they are correct, however, there is a big difference between "cannot" and "do not" a term they carefully avoided so as not to shoot their own fact check down in flames. Illegal immigrants arriving in the UK are housed (be it in hotels or other accommodation) fed, and given an allowance for personal spending. THESE ARE BENEFITS! They may not be State Benefits, as received by the British population, but they are still benefits. So, maybe someone needs to Fact Check the Fact Check.

 

And taken as a whole it is peanuts compared to overall Govt spending. Be angry with the billions wasted on Govt contracts to their friends in power during the covid crisis, most of it was thrown away and the amount immigrants, either illegal or asylum seekers, receive pales in comparison. Be angry with the pitifully small and underfunded state pension in the UK, one of the worst in the whole of Europe.

[Kinnock]

Shameful admission that this imoral situation is all about the money.

[Muhendis]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

uprated in the UK and also in countries abroad where there is a legal requirement to do so.

This legal requirement is the "get out" clause we should be looking at. Finding out how some countries make this reciprocal arrangement and getting your country of residence to join would be a way forward. In the case of Thailand it could be in Thailands interest to join such an arrangement thus increasing purchasing power of UK retirees. 

In addition to that, what about the countries where there is no reciprocal arrangement yet retirees have their pensions UK index linked? I think Spain is one of them but I'm sure there are others too.

The UK DWP is being hypocritical in saying "where there is a legal requirement to do so" because it is they who make the law and it is they who could change it if they want in much the same way that it was changed for pensioners in the EU When the UK left. 

[crazykopite]

It would cost the government a hell of a lot more if we all decided to move back to the U.K. 

[ivor bigun]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

So basically go swivel?

and what else did you expect? dont forget all those poor refugees that need putting up in hotels ,with free food free tv free wi fi and free spending money ,they come first not us nasty pensioners living a life of luxuary on the beaches around the world ,we only paid in for 44 yrs what do we matter?

[Doctor Tom]

2 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

and what else did you expect? dont forget all those poor refugees that need putting up in hotels ,with free food free tv free wi fi and free spending money ,they come first not us nasty pensioners living a life of luxuary on the beaches around the world ,we only paid in for 44 yrs what do we matter?

Get back on your beach chair, drink your beer, eat your nice cheep spicy Thai food, give your 24 year old g/f a peck on the cheek and stop moaning ????

[SatEng]

1 hour ago, nickmondo said:

typical uk!!!!!!!!!!!

<deleted> on the people that have worked their whole lives, paid NI and Taxes

But if your illegal and arrive in a rubber boat, you are given multiple times the amount given to a pensioner!!

my advice.........keep a uk address, even if just a friend, and get all your mail, bank statements etc sent there for years.

also, take the money in any other way you can..........credit cards........loans.........anything..........and just tell them alll to get stuffed

Typical racist response from a hypocrit immigrant

If you want to change it - go home

[ivor bigun]

2 minutes ago, SatEng said:

Typical racist response from a hypocrit immigrant

If you want to change it - go home

21 posts so far ,were you banned and now have a new name?

[SatEng]

4 hours ago, oxmermaid said:

As usual the standard clap trap response from the UK Government.

 

Sure it would cost them a shed load of money to bring the pensions inline with UK based pensioners, but what is not mentioned is the savings made by us 'exiles' not be a drain on the NHS and state care services. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the figure exceeded the quoted upgrade costs.

 

Unfortunately incorrect.

If you were living in the UK and spending your money there it would be a net benefit compared to the cost to NHS and state services on average - treasury estimates

This is why they don't give a fig about you if you are living abroad and spending your pension abroad

 

[SatEng]

2 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

21 posts so far ,were you banned and now have a new name?

If you don't like immigrants - don't be one

[Guderian]

The only way this will change in the near-term is to get one of the tabloid campaigning newspapers on our side, they have enough sway with public opinion to force the government to change its mind. I seem to recall a few years ago that the Mail decided it wasn't going to support us, though at that time the APPG on Frozen UK Pensions hadn't reported. Their findings are clear and unequivocal, you can read them in their final report here:

 

Frozen-Pensions-APPG-1(1).pdf

 

Only an unprincipled scoundrel would dare to argue that such a policy is justified, and that should be made clear to the UK government. The governments of both Canada and Australia are on our side in this matter, as is the APPG, now if only we could get the Mail or the Sun on side we might make some progress.

[ChrisKC]

UK Government Functionary

 

To a lowly civil servant minion:

 

"The Poms are whinging again, cut and paste the usual and then you can make the tea"

[SatEng]

1 hour ago, nickmondo said:

typical uk!!!!!!!!!!!

<deleted> on the people that have worked their whole lives, paid NI and Taxes

But if your illegal and arrive in a rubber boat, you are given multiple times the amount given to a pensioner!!

my advice.........keep a uk address, even if just a friend, and get all your mail, bank statements etc sent there for years.

also, take the money in any other way you can..........credit cards........loans.........anything..........and just tell them alll to get stuffed

Why is it that the right wing bigots and racists manage to bring their bile into every thread on a forum

This is about the UK Government treating its UK citizens - nothing to do with immigration

Edited May 12, 2022 by SatEng