Ukraine condemns Macron for saying Russia should not be ‘humiliated’

[onthedarkside]

 

The Ukrainian Foreign Minister has rebuked Emmanuel Macron for suggesting it is important not to “humiliate” Moscow.

 

The French President has sought to maintain an open dialogue with Russian leader Vladimir Putin since his troops invaded Ukraine in February.

 

"We must not humiliate Russia so that the day when the fighting stops we can build an exit ramp through diplomatic means," Mr Macron said in an interview with regional newspapers published on Saturday.

 

(more)

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-condemns-macron-saying-russia-141439704.html

 

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

3 minutes ago, onthedarkside said:

The Ukrainian Foreign Minister has rebuked Emmanuel Macron for suggesting it is important not to “humiliate” Moscow.

he is right, but at the same time, Zelensky is not offering any valuable and credible solution for peace

 

IMO, he is a liability for Ukraine

 

Stop the war ASAP, it could have been avoided, and still can be avoided from getting deeper

[jcmj]

Make sure you just watch out what’s best for your bottom line. Ughh

[RichardColeman]

6 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

Stop the war ASAP, it could have been avoided, and still can be avoided from getting deeper

You do realise that the compensation Russia would have to pay to the Ukraine and its people to get back on the international stage will cripple it for the next 50 years don't you. Russia cannot walk away scot free and mad dog Putin, his generals and his soldiers would have to face war criminal charges at the very least. Not going to happen , is it

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, onthedarkside said:

"We must not humiliate Russia so that the day when the fighting stops we can build an exit ramp through diplomatic means," Mr Macron said in an interview with regional newspapers published on Saturday.

 

[SomchaiCNX]

Whatever, he is a politician after all. They don't want to lose their " business" connections after all the hard Lobbying. 

[issan101]

11 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

he is right, but at the same time, Zelensky is not offering any valuable and credible solution for peace

 

IMO, he is a liability for Ukraine

 

Stop the war ASAP, it could have been avoided, and still can be avoided from getting deeper

You must be joking ! What has Russia offered other than an invasion of  sovereign country, nuclear threats. Macron must have one too many

[Isaan sailor]

Funny, the Russian Army shows no restraint in their brutal invasion of Ukraine.

[Harveyboy]

and here we go Little Napoleon Macaroon ..

id be banned from here if i said what i really think about this p###k..

now like many of you we remember a certain country that was invaded Twice by Germany a country that cried to the rest of the world to save it ..Which we did  ..the only difference is the Ukrainian army fought on and defended their homes and family not like certain country i know of ..so shut your big mouth don't knock a country that prefers to make home made bombs to fight and not white flags .i write this today 6 june D day does this ring any bell 

Emanuel..just sayin

[Harveyboy]

43 minutes ago, issan101 said:

You must be joking ! What has Russia offered other than an invasion of  sovereign country, nuclear threats. Macron must have one too many

Emperor Macarooon is a horrible little gobs###e

[Mayhem11]

Thank God none of you have any political power. We would all be doomed.

[placeholder]

I don't think Macron is necessarily wrong. If there were some way to offer Russia and Putin some face-saving way of abandoning claims to Ukrainian territory. It all depends on what those terms might be. The primary goal of the Ukrainians should be to rid the Russians from their territory. Humiliating Putin might be satisfying but is it worth it if it stands in the way of that primary goal? That said, are there any possible terms that would allow Putin to save face and at the same time banish Russian forces and forces supported by Russia from Ukraine?

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

You do realise that the compensation Russia would have to pay to the Ukraine and its people to get back on the international stage will cripple it for the next 50 years don't you. Russia cannot walk away scot free and mad dog Putin, his generals and his soldiers would have to face war criminal charges at the very least. Not going to happen , is it

The same kind of thinking characterized the treaty of Versailles that officially put a close to WW1. It imposed harsh penalties on Germany. That punishment directly led to the conditions that created WW2. Vengeance may be satisfying but it doesn't necessarily lead to sensible outcomes.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Funny, the Russian Army shows no restraint in their brutal invasion of Ukraine.

Nor its retreat (aka tactical reversal) from invaded Ukrainian soil.

[Srikcir]

May 18, 2022

https://www.army-technology.com/news//france-weapon-deliveries-ukraine

France is set to INCREASE weapon deliveries to Ukraine. Arms deliveries from France WILL CONTINUE and "increase in intensity in the following days."

If Putin can double speak, so can Macron.

[Stargeezr]

Oh yes, do not say anything to humiliate Putin or his generals who have invaded Ukraine.

  So Mr. Macron. how has your talks with Putin been?  Has there been any change to his mind, or his lies to the

Russians about his so called special operations?

[heybruce]

On 6/5/2022 at 1:08 PM, GrandPapillon said:

he is right, but at the same time, Zelensky is not offering any valuable and credible solution for peace

 

IMO, he is a liability for Ukraine

 

Stop the war ASAP, it could have been avoided, and still can be avoided from getting deeper

Zelensky is garnering international support for Ukraine and convincing democratic nations to provide weapons to defend his country, and has been doing a remarkably effective job.  How is that a liability?  What do you suggest he do?

 

Yes, the war could have easily been avoided by not having Russia invade. 

[heybruce]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

I don't think Macron is necessarily wrong. If there were some way to offer Russia and Putin some face-saving way of abandoning claims to Ukrainian territory. It all depends on what those terms might be. The primary goal of the Ukrainians should be to rid the Russians from their territory. Humiliating Putin might be satisfying but is it worth it if it stands in the way of that primary goal? That said, are there any possible terms that would allow Putin to save face and at the same time banish Russian forces and forces supported by Russia from Ukraine?

Face-saving in what way?  Allowing Putin to declare some kind of victory? 

 

Allowing Putin any appearance of victory after threatening to use nuclear weapons would validate the tactic and motivate other countries to do the same.  Those without nuclear weapons would strive to acquire them so that they too could engage in nuclear blackmail.  Eventually this would lead to the war every sensible person is trying to avoid.

 

Rewarding nuclear blackmail is very destabilizing.

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Face-saving in what way?  Allowing Putin to declare some kind of victory? 

 

Allowing Putin any appearance of victory after threatening to use nuclear weapons would validate the tactic and motivate other countries to do the same.  Those without nuclear weapons would strive to acquire them so that they too could engage in nuclear blackmail.  Eventually this would lead to the war every sensible person is trying to avoid.

 

Rewarding nuclear blackmail is very destabilizing.

I think you should contemplate this last sentence of mine?

That said, are there any possible terms that would allow Putin to save face and at the same time banish Russian forces and forces supported by Russia from Ukraine?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I think you should contemplate this last sentence of mine?

That said, are there any possible terms that would allow Putin to save face and at the same time banish Russian forces and forces supported by Russia from Ukraine?

None that I can think of.  Since the priority needs to be preventing such wars of aggression in the future, Putin should lose face, office, independence, etc.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

None that I can think of.  Since the priority needs to be preventing such wars of aggression in the future, Putin should lose face, office, independence, etc.

I think if Ukrainians were given the choice between a settlement that definitively rid Ukraine of Russians invaders or one that also demanded the humiliation of Putin, I'd guess they'd opt for the former since that would mean a lot less Ukrainian dead. But if humiliating Putin et alii is the goal, then other nations should put the lives of their soldiers on the line to achieve that end.

[heybruce]

52 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think if Ukrainians were given the choice between a settlement that definitively rid Ukraine of Russians invaders or one that also demanded the humiliation of Putin, I'd guess they'd opt for the former since that would mean a lot less Ukrainian dead. But if humiliating Putin et alii is the goal, then other nations should put the lives of their soldiers on the line to achieve that end.

Somewhat agree.  The terms of the final peace should be up to Ukraine, without pressure from the outside.

 

In other words, shut-up Macron.

[candide]

From what I read, Russia is not so happy about Macron's comment, which indirectly suggests Russia may be weak enough to feel humiliated.

A way to humiliate Russia, while pretending not willing to humiliate it? ????

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, candide said:

From what I read, Russia is not so happy about Macron's comment, which indirectly suggests Russia may be weak enough to feel humiliated.

A way to humiliate Russia, while pretending not willing to humiliate it? ????

I don't think Macron meant it that way, but it seems reasonable to assume that's how Putin construed it.

[kwonitoy]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:08 AM, GrandPapillon said:

he is right, but at the same time, Zelensky is not offering any valuable and credible solution for peace

 

IMO, he is a liability for Ukraine

 

Stop the war ASAP, it could have been avoided, and still can be avoided from getting deeper

What planet do you live on?

Russia started the war

Russia continues to propagate the war.

Russia needs to retreat to stop the war.

Ukraine is a sovereign country that has been invaded without provocation

 

Zelenshy doesn't have to offer any solution for peace, Ukraine didn't start an unprovoked attack. 

Russia needs to stop shelling and bombardment of non military targets, IE city centers, hospitals, shopping centers

 

Yes RUSSIA stop the war ASAP

 

Slava Ukraine.

[Hummin]

On 6/6/2022 at 1:34 AM, RichardColeman said:

You do realise that the compensation Russia would have to pay to the Ukraine and its people to get back on the international stage will cripple it for the next 50 years don't you. Russia cannot walk away scot free and mad dog Putin, his generals and his soldiers would have to face war criminal charges at the very least. Not going to happen , is it

It only take a regime change in Russia, and pull out, and a few years from now everything will be ok! 
 

But thats doesn’t seem to be likely at the moment. 

[arithai12]

20 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

What planet do you live on?

Russia started the war

Russia continues to propagate the war.

Russia needs to retreat to stop the war.

Ukraine is a sovereign country that has been invaded without provocation

 

Zelenshy doesn't have to offer any solution for peace, Ukraine didn't start an unprovoked attack. 

Russia needs to stop shelling and bombardment of non military targets, IE city centers, hospitals, shopping centers

 

Yes RUSSIA stop the war ASAP

 

Slava Ukraine.

I live on a planet on which the USA has all interests for this war to go on and it's them, by supplying billions of dollars of weapons (money which they don't have btw), who are propagating it.

Obviously it's a different planet from yours.

 

But trying to use common sense for a moment, it's clear that Russia will not stop if they are humiliated. Macron is (sometimes) right. Like when he said that NATO is obsolete and EU needs their own (minus USA and Canada, that is). That doesn't go well with the USA economic interests.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, arithai12 said:

I live on a planet on which the USA has all interests for this war to go on and it's them, by supplying billions of dollars of weapons (money which they don't have btw), who are propagating it.

Obviously it's a different planet from yours.

 

But trying to use common sense for a moment, it's clear that Russia will not stop if they are humiliated. Macron is (sometimes) right. Like when he said that NATO is obsolete and EU needs their own (minus USA and Canada, that is). That doesn't go well with the USA economic interests.

Here's actually what he said. Keep in mind that this took place in 2019

 

Emmanuel Macron warns Europe: NATO is becoming brain-dead
America is turning its back on the European project. Time to wake up, the French president tells The Economist

https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/11/07/emmanuel-macron-warns-europe-nato-is-becoming-brain-dead

 

Why would he ever say that American was turning its back on Europe? Who was America's President then? hmmm....

[billd766]

On 6/6/2022 at 12:08 AM, GrandPapillon said:

he is right, but at the same time, Zelensky is not offering any valuable and credible solution for peace

 

IMO, he is a liability for Ukraine

 

Stop the war ASAP, it could have been avoided, and still can be avoided from getting deeper

Why should President Zelensky offer a solution for peace, (though he has) when he did not start the war in the first place.

 

Of course the war can be stopped.

 

All it will take is for Russia (the invader for those who are not sure) to pull out of the Ukraine which attacked unprovoked (though possibly not in Putin's mind). That I don't know.

 

Russia MUST pull out of the Ukraine completely, each side to return all POWs and bodies wherever possible, and Russia to pay compensation for rebuilding Ukraine.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, arithai12 said:

I live on a planet on which the USA has all interests for this war to go on and it's them, by supplying billions of dollars of weapons (money which they don't have btw), who are propagating it.

Obviously it's a different planet from yours.

 

But trying to use common sense for a moment, it's clear that Russia will not stop if they are humiliated. Macron is (sometimes) right. Like when he said that NATO is obsolete and EU needs their own (minus USA and Canada, that is). That doesn't go well with the USA economic interests.

quote "Like when he said that NATO is obsolete and EU needs their own (minus USA and Canada, that is).

 

And what would that achieve?

 

Which country would be running the EU forces? France? After all they have nuclear weapons? Germany? UK if they were allowed to play?

 

Would those countries be backing up the Ukraine? Would they even allow the USAF and the RAF to fly over and deliver weapons and support to the Ukraine?