How to legally help wife on a noodle stall without getting arrested?

[cliveshep]

I read of a chap whose wife ran a restaurant and gave him breakfast. After he had done he carried the empty plate out to the kitchen and Immigration and Police grabbed him for working without a work permit. Sio given the utterly xenophobic and draconian rules these people seem to have when my wife suggested she open a noodle stall and I helped her I immediately looked up Work Permit regs. Seems unless you are a proper business a foreign husband on a non-imm OA annually-extended visa based on Marriage simply could not provide the necessary papers and a noodle cart seller most certainly could not.

 

So I've seen farang working in the markets, one is a pilot who also runs his own food stall when not flying - how is this possible? Naturally as a 76 year old I cannot do too much but naturally a husband wants to help his wife but it seems the all-powerful Immigration Police prohibit this with silly rules backed up by severe punishments.?

 

So what to do because I am well aware of high risks caught working by "taking my plate out to the kitchen" and being reported by jealous jobsworths and that game is not worth the candle?

 

Any advice on legal ways to gain a piece of paper allowing me to wash dishes for my wife for example? I won't be paid of course, it's all part of our family life and income.

[bkk6060]

Carrying out or washing dishes is normally done by staff so they can consider that you are working.  Either get a work permit or you are SOL as assisting in any way at a noodle stall is illegal.

[ezzra]

Unfortunately Thailand is very 'funny' that way, very protective of it's labour and who works without a permit and its not worth the risk, that pilot you mentioned or others who work, either he has some kind of arrangements of he is just being stupid, best to let you wife do all the work and not to be seen working/helping her at all...

[1FinickyOne]

I assume that unless you have the work permit or are a business owner, there is nothing you can do to assist in any way. 

 

I also assume that touching incoming cash is a big NO. 

 

In other words, you can buy her comfortable shoes if you want to help but beyond that, not much. 

[richard_smith237]

53 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

I read of a chap whose wife ran a restaurant and gave him breakfast. After he had done he carried the empty plate out to the kitchen and Immigration and Police grabbed him for working without a work permit.

You ‘read’ this, or heard it in a bar ?....  was the guy ex special forces ?

IF read, read where?...  i.e. some bar-stool expert made up the story on this forum ?

 

53 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Sio given the utterly xenophobic and draconian rules these people seem to have when my wife suggested she open a noodle stall and I helped her I immediately looked up Work Permit regs. Seems unless you are a proper business a foreign husband on a non-imm OA annually-extended visa based on Marriage simply could not provide the necessary papers and a noodle cart seller most certainly could not.

That is in fact correct...  A foreigner cannot work here unless work permitted and meets all the requirement that come with that, but those who say you’ll be arrested for painting your own house because you are taking that job away from a Thai are really over 'egging the pudding’.... 

 

Helping out at your Wife’s noodles store will be a matter of ‘visibility’... 

Serving customers of course a no-no....  But I imagine such shops require a fair bit of food prep, you could help there and not be overtly visible.

 

53 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

So I've seen farang working in the markets, one is a pilot who also runshis own food stall when not flying - how is this possible?

No one is as bothered as some ‘wannabe-lawyer-foreigners' like to make out...  laws are hardly if ever enforced unless the foreigner acts out and upsets some locals etc.

 

53 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Naturally as a 76 year old I cannot do too much but naturally a husband wants to help his wife but it seems the all-powerful Immigration Police prohibit this with silly rules backed up by severe punishments.?

 

So what to do because I am well aware of high risks caught working by "taking my plate out to the kitchen" and being reported by jealous jobsworths and that game is not worth the candle?

Do what you think is reasonable... The plate story is one of those silly myths. 

 

 

53 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Any advice on legal ways to gain a piece of paper allowing me to wash dishes for my wife for example? I won't be paid of course, it's all part of our family life and income.

I don’t think getting fully legal is viable - Wife would need to set up a tax paying business and employ 4 Thai’s per foreigner in order apply for a WP - it just gets a bit silly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by richard_smith237

[grain]

No you won't ever gain a piece of paper (permit) to wash dishes or serve tables or do anything whatsoever at your wife's noodle stall other than sit there and drink the profits. If you lived out in the boonies you could get away with it. There's a young farang not far from where we live and he works in his wife's M&P shop, he sits there all day and serves the Thais. Obviously nobody cares as he's been doing this for ages. But in cities, large towns, tourist hubs you won't get away with it. Somebody will snitch and you'll get fined and warned. As someone suggested you can help out at home preparing things, you could also deliver stuff to the stall. But that's it. Doing anything at all around the stall and with the customers is inviting trouble.

[Denim]

A lot can depend on where you live. If you live in touristy places the police there are always looking for extra pocket money and use any excuse to put the squeeze on you. 

 

If on the other hand you live in the boonies you can usually do what you like without getting bothered as long as its not a high profile business much in the public eye.

 

My wife used to have a clothing stand at the ministry of commerce in Bangkok. I used to help her set up and take down her rails and clothes etc. Occasionally , if I was hanging around and she wanted to go to the toilet I would mind her stall and even sell things if a customer couldn't wait until she returned. At the same market there was another English guy selling plants he had grown. Nobody ever bothered him either. Saw another guy selling peanuts from a stall with his girlfriend at the side of the road.  Try any of that in Phuket or Pattaya etc and you can expect trouble.

[KhunLA]

Wear a burka ... ????

[ChaiyaTH]

Depends so much where you live, who you know and how locals like you. Many of the islands you can see dozens of farangs without Word Permits serving and doing all sorts of stuff. Anyway, who on earth would work on a noodle stall, just be the investor or owner behind the scenes.

[The Hammer2021]

A few months ago, in Pratumnak, a British man lifted a box off food of the back of a truck and took it into his wife's shop. A matter of a few paces.  Immigration  officer sitting  in the next door restaurant 'arrested' him and 50k was required to drop  charges.

Subsequently after complaints, senior  IOs returned 30k and apologised saying the original  officers had not been working lawfully.

It looks like the shop owners had made an enemy of a  local who had tipped off friends in Immigration to make trouble for the couple.

[norfolkandchance]

Wasn’t the Pilot a Thai. Could be mistaken !

Edited June 12, 2022 by norfolkandchance

[ozimoron]

If she needs some help why not just hire some help?

[cliveshep]

1 hour ago, norfolkandchance said:

Wasn’t the Pilot a Thai. Could be mistaken !

Nope, English 747 cargo pilot. Sometimes airline pilot long-haul. Not saying more on him.

 

[DILLIGAD]

Your 76 on a OA (Retirement) visa and you expect to be able to work legally. If your retired, you will not get a Work Permit. End Of!

[cliveshep]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

You ‘read’ this, or heard it in a bar ?....  was the guy ex special forces ?

IF read, read where?...  i.e. some bar-stool expert made up the story on this forum ?

 

That is in fact correct...  A foreigner cannot work here unless work permitted and meets all the requirement that come with that, but those who say you’ll be arrested for painting your own house because you are taking that job away from a Thai are really over 'egging the pudding’.... 

 

Helping out at your Wife’s noodles store will be a matter of ‘visibility’... 

Serving customers of course a no-no....  But I imagine such shops require a fair bit of food prep, you could help there and not be overtly visible.

 

No one is as bothered as some ‘wannabe-lawyer-foreigners' like to make out...  laws are hardly if ever enforced unless the foreigner acts out and upsets some locals etc.

 

Do what you think is reasonable... The plate story is one of those silly myths. 

 

 

I don’t think getting fully legal is viable - Wife would need to set up a tax paying business and employ 4 Thai’s per foreigner in order apply for a WP - it just gets a bit silly. 

 

 

The plate story might not be a silly myth - it was reported on these (Thai Visa) forums maybe 5 years ago and resulted in considerable discussion. At no point was there any suggestion it was a "wind-up" or fake incident, location in Pattaya I believe.

 

 

 

 

[cliveshep]

5 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

Your 76 on a OA (Retirement) visa and you expect to be able to work legally. If your retired, you will not get a Work Permit. End Of!

Not retirement - based on marriage to a Thai. Been here 7 years now. End of! lol I did expressly state that.

Edited June 12, 2022 by cliveshep

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, cliveshep said:

The plate story might not be a silly myth - it was reported on these (Thai Visa) forums maybe 5 years ago and resulted in considerable discussion. At no point was there any suggestion it was a "wind-up" or fake incident, location in Pattaya I believe.

Would be interesting to see that thread....  quite possibly a troll ?

 

I can’t imagine anyone getting arrested for taking a plate to the kitchen... more to that story perhaps. 

Its the same as the guys who ‘own a bar’ and they get arrested as soon as they step behind the bar - perfect for ‘knowledgable foreigners’ to pass on their encylopedic knowledge of ThaiLaw when advising newbies to watch out... 

 

...  that said, in areas where there are lots of a foreigners and a tainted police force I can envisage some dirty police offers looking to ‘extort’ the odd foreigner here or there for working when ‘hanging out’ at their wife’s or friends place of work... but most of those stories are just bar-stool stories.. .a guy told me, a friend of a friend...etc etc... 

 

 

 

[KarenBravo]

Just compare the upside with a theoretical downside.

The decision will be easy.

[scubascuba3]

Just hire someone if she needs help, you stay clear, find other things to do

[RichardColeman]

After the story of the noodle vendor peeing in his noodle water on here, you're probably not even qualified enough to do that ????

[KIngsofisaan]

Go to the local police in the area where you have your noodle shop.

 

Explain your age and just wanting to help out.

 

They may give you permission, worth a try.

 

I think it will all depend on where you are located.

 

In Isaan seems these regulations about work permits no one cares so much.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Go to the local police in the area where you have your noodle shop.

 

Explain your age and just wanting to help out.

 

They may give you permission, worth a try.

 

I think it will all depend on where you are located.

 

In Isaan seems these regulations about work permits no one cares so much.

OP... Whatever you do, do not do this !!!

 

IF you want to help out your wife, then do so, but fly under the radar... What you do not do is flag yourself to the very people who ‘could’ extort you and your wife for you illegally working helping.

 

 

[Iamfalang]

A few months ago.......hmmmm.

 

Many years ago a falang was walking and picked up a rock in the street.  This was a pet rock and he was arrested, 100k fine, and deported.   His friend took pictures without a work permit, and was arrested.  His other friend brought the pet rock back to its owner and was arrested for working without a work permit.

 

Don't believe the legends, but you do need a work permit.   You will get videotaped, put on Facebook, and you won't win by taking a job that a Thai can do.   

 

I've helped Thais take boxes off trucks, zero problems.  Helped sell stuff in shops, zero problems.  I'm sure you can do something once or a few times, but beyond that and it's obvious you have a job.   

[Hummin]

37 minutes ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Go to the local police in the area where you have your noodle shop.

 

Explain your age and just wanting to help out.

 

They may give you permission, worth a try.

 

I think it will all depend on where you are located.

 

In Isaan seems these regulations about work permits no one cares so much.

It have nothing to do with the local police to do! It have all to do with immigration, and nobody else. Immigration can react on notification or planned visits in the area, or to inspect if husband live with his wife.

[Hummin]

Build a farm and work as much you want! But some will say you can't, I say I can, but ,,,,, ????????

[KIngsofisaan]

16 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It have nothing to do with the local police to do! It have all to do with immigration, and nobody else. Immigration can react on notification or planned visits in the area, or to inspect if husband live with his wife.

Do you think immigration is out walking around arresting people? Come on man.

 

With 66,000,000+ population, how may immigration officers are out walking around inspecting noodle shops?

 

I have never seen 1 in our area ever.

 

How many areas in Thailand are there that have NO immigration offices?

 

 

 

 

[KIngsofisaan]

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

OP... Whatever you do, do not do this !!!

 

IF you want to help out your wife, then do so, but fly under the radar... What you do not do is flag yourself to the very people who ‘could’ extort you and your wife for you illegally working helping.

 

 

In areas where the are no immigration offices, the police are the ones making the decisions.

 

We have a very good relationship with the very few police in our area.

 

I would NOT hesitate to ask them, however there are farangs working all over Isaan where I have traveled.

 

You ASK before YOU start working? Is that so hard to understand?

 

Kind of hard for them to extort you, once they give you permission.

 

Sounds like you are only familiar with one story.

 

 

[KIngsofisaan]

36 minutes ago, Iamfalang said:

A few months ago.......hmmmm.

 

Many years ago a falang was walking and picked up a rock in the street.  This was a pet rock and he was arrested, 100k fine, and deported.   His friend took pictures without a work permit, and was arrested.  His other friend brought the pet rock back to its owner and was arrested for working without a work permit.

 

Don't believe the legends, but you do need a work permit.   You will get videotaped, put on Facebook, and you won't win by taking a job that a Thai can do.   

 

I've helped Thais take boxes off trucks, zero problems.  Helped sell stuff in shops, zero problems.  I'm sure you can do something once or a few times, but beyond that and it's obvious you have a job.   

The other day a car broke down in the road. I got out of my truck, with other Thai's and helped push it to the side of the road.

 

No, immigration did not arrest me for working without a work permit.

 

Then we all went and had some beers.

 

It is odd posters on TV will tell stories of things they heard one time, when there are 66 ,000,000 people here and fear that story like it is the end of the world.

 

You have a higher percentage chance of getting turned in by a jealous expat, who is jealous you are making a few baht and he isn't!

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, KIngsofisaan said:

In areas where the are no immigration offices, the police are the ones making the decisions.

Every province in Thailand has an immigration office. 

 

1 hour ago, KIngsofisaan said:

 

We have a very good relationship with the very few police in our area.

 

How do you know that ?... you meet a policeman, wave and he waves back ?

 

Police are generally fine and nothing to be frightened off, but give them a chance to make money and there you go... 

 

1 hour ago, KIngsofisaan said:

I would NOT hesitate to ask them, however there are farangs working all over Isaan where I have traveled.

Then you’d be a food..

I bet the foreigners working didn’t go to a police station and ask if they can work without a work permit. 

They just got on with it and kept quiet about it. 

 

1 hour ago, KIngsofisaan said:

 

You ASK before YOU start working? Is that so hard to understand?

Only an naive idiot would give the police a tip-off....  Is that so hard to understand?

(rhetorical.. seems it is !)

 

1 hour ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Kind of hard for them to extort you, once they give you permission.

Good luck getting that written permission that works for immigration too.

 

 

1 hour ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Sounds like you are only familiar with one story.

Sounds like you have just stepped foot in Thailand and have no idea or are one of thee naive feckless pensioners wondering around as if the world is wonderful and peachy... 

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 hours ago, cliveshep said:

 

I seem to recall that it was a felang who was cooking food in a his own restaurant in the morning . 

  He claims he was cooking his own breakfast .

Maybe it was his own breakfast or maybe it was a customers' breakfast that he was cooking ?