Red-shirt leader protests against US Defence Secretary’s visit, Indo-Pacific strategy

[webfact]

 

United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), or “Red Shirt” leader Jatuporn Prompan led a small group of Thai people who staged a rally in front of the Ministry of Defence yesterday (Monday), to protest the visit to Thailand by US Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin and his country’s Indo-Pacific strategy.

 

Austin paid a courtesy call on Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, also Thailand’s defence minister, at the Ministry of Defence at 3pm yesterday.

 

In his address to the media, the red-shirt movement leader said Austin’s visit amounts to an attempt to drag Thailand into the US conflicts with China, based on the principle that enemies of the US are also enemies of Thailand, despite the fact that Thailand is not an enemy of any country, as he urged Thailand to reject the US Indo-Pacific strategy.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/red-shirt-leader-protests-against-us-defence-secretarys-visit-indo-pacific-strategy/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2022-06-14

 

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[JoePai]

Oh dear is he still alive  ????

[Excel]

Seems there was a shortage of face masks judging by that picture

 

[keith101]

These TOOLS really need to get over themselves and get a life away from Thaksin .

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, JoePai said:

Oh dear is he still alive  ????

Is he out on bail, again?

 

Perhaps weld the door closed. 

[ThailandRyan]

ThIland the new Sweden and neutral cou try.....lol yeah right....

[keith101]

If Jatuporn Prompan is such a Red Shirt then why is dressed all in blue .

[spidermike007]

Prompan is a blazing idiot, nothing he ever says and does should ever be considered credible, and he is totally off the mark here, to consider China a more dependable ally than the US. I am not particularly supportive of alot of US foreign policy. But, in this case, who do you prefer? Xi is a boil on the face of humanity, and so is the CCP. They are as toxic as Putin. 

[Rhys]

That time again... did his current crop fail? 

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Prompan is a blazing idiot, nothing he ever says and does should ever be considered credible, and he is totally off the mark here, to consider China a more dependable ally than the US. I am not particularly supportive of alot of US foreign policy. But, in this case, who do you prefer? Xi is a boil on the face of humanity, and so is the CCP. They are as toxic as Putin. 

Which version of the USA is more dependable?

The USA like it existed until maybe 2016? Or the Trump USA?

The USA is not reliable anymore because what president A does might be changed a few years later by president B. And we are not talking about little changes, those are huge changes like being a member of NATO, etc.

 

Obviously China is not automatically good because the USA is bad but that works also the other way around. The USA is not automatically good because China is bad. Thailand should be careful with both of them. They both have their own interest in mind and Thailand is unimportant for them.

[steven100]

he looks the guy I seen sleeping outside my 7/11 this morning.

[StayinThailand2much]

"Red Shirt" as in 'we love Red China'?

[timendres]

24 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Which version of the USA is more dependable?

The USA like it existed until maybe 2016? Or the Trump USA?

People need to get past "The Trump Thing". It is meaningless.

 

25 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The USA is not reliable anymore because what president A does might be changed a few years later by president B. And we are not talking about little changes, those are huge changes like being a member of NATO, etc.

 

Obviously China is not automatically good because the USA is bad but that works also the other way around. The USA is not automatically good because China is bad. Thailand should be careful with both of them. They both have their own interest in mind and Thailand is unimportant for them.

The USA has been devolving since WWII into a nation dominated by the military industrial complex and major corporate interests, as well as the need to protect the PetroDollar reserve currency. This has resulted in endless war with a heavy cost. China, on the other hand, is h3llbent on dominating the South China Sea to project its naval force, and to dominate the entire Asia region, with Russia as its communist partner. You are correct that Thailand should remain "neutral", and simply exploit only economic opportunities with both nations.

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, timendres said:

People need to get past "The Trump Thing". It is meaningless.

Really?

Maybe google what Trump said about NATO and about Putin.

And even if Trump will be gone one day that doesn't mean Trumpism is gone. There are just too many crazy idiots out there and too many crazy idiots who vote for crazy idiots.

It is a huge mistake to rely on the USA. No country should ever do that again.

[arithai12]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Prompan is a blazing idiot, nothing he ever says and does should ever be considered credible, and he is totally off the mark here, to consider China a more dependable ally than the US. I am not particularly supportive of alot of US foreign policy. But, in this case, who do you prefer? Xi is a boil on the face of humanity, and so is the CCP. They are as toxic as Putin. 

Ask Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, .... ... the list goes on, how dependable an ally the US are.

Thailand would be very wise in trying to balance favors and deals with both China and US, as they are doing so far.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, keith101 said:

If Jatuporn Prompan is such a Red Shirt then why is dressed all in blue .

Because his mom forget to wash his red shirt?

 

Or maybe because he's run out of thaksin free red shirt handouts?

[AgMech Cowboy]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

too many crazy idiots who vote for crazy idiots.

Ah... Then you voted for Biden. ???? Glad to know the crazy idiots.  They'll/You'll be trying to round up us 'others' for your education camps.

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Ah... Then you voted for Biden. ???? Glad to know the crazy idiots.  They'll/You'll be trying to round up us 'others' for your education camps.

I know, for some people it is not easy to understand these complicated things. Let me try to explain it to you.

I didn't vote in any US election because I am no US citizen.

When you look at news about the USA and all those people who believe any kind of nonsense, what words come to your mind? Uneducated? Stupid? Idiots? 

Or how else would you explain that a huge part of American still believes Trump won the last election? Was over one year looking at evidence still not enough?

And when people still support a guy who is a serial liar, someone who doesn't acknowledge reality, and someone who has no clue about history, diplomacy and the rest of the world, what do you think about those people?

Biden is obviously also a bad choice, but he was the only alternative last time when people voted. Being better than Trump is not really a big achievement, but it's something.

 

I hope that one day people in the USA learn about their own country and about the world and about their leaders. And maybe one day they will vote for a better leader. It doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon. But there is hope. Americans are well known for finding the correct solution, after they tried all the other not so good alternatives.

[RichardColeman]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

said Austin’s visit amounts to an attempt to drag Thailand into the US conflicts with China,

As opposed to supporting China in any up and coming ones ? 

[BangkokReady]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

In his address to the media, the red-shirt movement leader said Austin’s visit amounts to an attempt to drag Thailand into the US conflicts with China, based on the principle that enemies of the US are also enemies of Thailand

So in a conflict between The US and China, he would want Thailand to support China?  Just how red are these guys?

[Baron Samedi]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Xi is a boil on the face of humanity, and so is the CCP. They are as toxic as Putin. 

I would love to be presented with the facts actually supporting that narrative.

China has been going through a prosperity bull run for decades, it has been the factory of the world for decades, it has political stability, it is modern, it has a vision for its future, etc...

Edited June 14, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[cncltd1973]

34 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

I would love to be presented with the facts actually supporting that narrative.

China has been going through a prosperity bull run for decades, it has been the factory of the world for decades, it has political stability, it is modern, it has a vision for its future, etc...

where have you been? human rights abuses have been well documented throughout China's history, not just Xi in the modern era, but look at the 75+ million Chinese that died from Mao's policies. the CCP is quite clear that the individual is expandable for the greater good of the party. plenty of documentaries if you are interested...

[Baron Samedi]

31 minutes ago, cncltd1973 said:

where have you been? human rights abuses have been well documented throughout China's history, not just Xi in the modern era, but look at the 75+ million Chinese that died from Mao's policies. the CCP is quite clear that the individual is expandable for the greater good of the party. plenty of documentaries if you are interested...

1 - Human rights abuses have been well documented throughout human history. It has nothing to do with China. Violence is a human trait. Fact.

 

2 - Since Deng Xiaoping, China has effectively buried Mao's worldview and hardcore communism. It's a fallacy to constantly refer to Mao to smear contemporary China. Fact.

 

3 - "CCP is quite clear that the individual is expandable" Oh yeah? Well please specify then. The common prosperity initiative has been the exact opposite of that. Fact.

 

Let's be clear. I'm not saying that China is perfect (far from it) but "China as a supervillain" is a western conservative narrative rooted in resentment. And it's certainly not gonna solve anything. Not in the West, not elsewhere.

 

How to brainwash people about China 101:

 

 

[internationalism]

I think he was released from prison by pardon, on condition, he will switch side.

Many others did, including isaan rambo, who has post at the PM office.

All of them became royalists, wear "904" military/police haircut.

 

UDD is disfunctional since 2014, it was Tida, who carried work for some many years.

 Prompan parted with thaksin good 4-5 years ago, at local election in Chiang Mai.

 

At yesterday demo it was only him from the former reds, the rest were right wing ultra-royalists - the usual anti-american suspects. They hate West for inventing democracy and human rights

[arithai12]

18 hours ago, cncltd1973 said:

where have you been? human rights abuses have been well documented throughout China's history, not just Xi in the modern era, but look at the 75+ million Chinese that died from Mao's policies. the CCP is quite clear that the individual is expandable for the greater good of the party. plenty of documentaries if you are interested...

If you like to go through historical records, you don't need to go very far to check how the USA became what it is today by kicking out and decimating the native americans. Talk about human rights.

Look, far from me to deny that human rights are a major issue in present day's China. Your statement that the individual person is expandable in their mentality is correct. But the topic being whether to lean with USA or with China in international relations, I'd say the middle way would be wise for Thailand. IMO.

[arithai12]

17 hours ago, internationalism said:

They hate West for inventing democracy

Democracy, as a word, was invented in ancient Greece. It was a deeply different thing than what most western countries understand today, certainly not the idea that every person can express a vote. Perhaps France after the Revolution came closer.

At any rate, since the topic is a demonstration against the USA influence in Thailand, please do not confuse what most people understand as democracy with what passes as democracy in the USA.

[cncltd1973]

22 hours ago, Baron Samedi said:

1 - Human rights abuses have been well documented throughout human history. It has nothing to do with China. Violence is a human trait. Fact.

 

2 - Since Deng Xiaoping, China has effectively buried Mao's worldview and hardcore communism. It's a fallacy to constantly refer to Mao to smear contemporary China. Fact.

 

3 - "CCP is quite clear that the individual is expandable" Oh yeah? Well please specify then. The common prosperity initiative has been the exact opposite of that. Fact.

 

Let's be clear. I'm not saying that China is perfect (far from it) but "China as a supervillain" is a western conservative narrative rooted in resentment. And it's certainly not gonna solve anything. Not in the West, not elsewhere.

 

I don't know why you state "Fact" after each point, it shouldn't be done in a debate unless you intent to condescend.

The points I made are to establish a pattern on how the CCP operates at the expense of individual lives and freedoms. Initially, the CCP's death toll was incredibly high - higher than ww1 and ww2 deaths combined. A lot of the deaths were from starvation from Mao's restructuring farming and industry, but many were dissenters and political of course. The modern CCP isn't killing in numbers anymore, but their headlines have to do with individual rights (since dissenting has been culled from their population) like people disappearing to re-education camps for complaining and the Ouiger labor camps. I think child labor might still be a thing over there, not sure tho.

I get my facts from history, not from politicians, so if I'm brainwashed it's from the facts and not propaganda. For a middling country like Thailand, it all comes down to by whom you want to be influenced the most: China or America. In a side by side comparison, the choice seems clear, but I'd be interested in knowing why someone would choose China.

[Baron Samedi]

2 hours ago, cncltd1973 said:

I don't know why you state "Fact" after each point, it shouldn't be done in a debate unless you intent to condescend.

The points I made are to establish a pattern on how the CCP operates at the expense of individual lives and freedoms. Initially, the CCP's death toll was incredibly high - higher than ww1 and ww2 deaths combined. A lot of the deaths were from starvation from Mao's restructuring farming and industry, but many were dissenters and political of course. The modern CCP isn't killing in numbers anymore, but their headlines have to do with individual rights (since dissenting has been culled from their population) like people disappearing to re-education camps for complaining and the Ouiger labor camps. I think child labor might still be a thing over there, not sure tho.

I get my facts from history, not from politicians, so if I'm brainwashed it's from the facts and not propaganda. For a middling country like Thailand, it all comes down to by whom you want to be influenced the most: China or America. In a side by side comparison, the choice seems clear, but I'd be interested in knowing why someone would choose China.

You are not establishing any relevant pattern.

You are cherry picking to push a biased/political narrative.

You have zero knowledge about China otherwise you would know about Xiaoping's reforms and wouldn't mention Mao every chance you get.

History isn't linear nor cyclical by the way.

Using China's past to predict its future is just nonsense.

 

Thailand won't choose between China and the US.

It will play one country against the other to secure the best deal for itself.

 

China is the biggest regional power.

Its military strength and influence will keep growing fast.

Its GDP will reach $64T by 2030 (twice the size of the US economy).

The Chinese middle class is booming and Thailand will benefit enormously.

Tech in Thailand is dominated by Chinese companies.

China provided financial assistance to Thailand on numerous occasions and will continue to do so.

I could go on and on...

 

Anyway, "the choice seems clear" for you.

I don't think it is at all for Thais.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[cncltd1973]

28 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

You are not establishing any relevant pattern.

You are cherry picking to push a biased/political narrative.

You have zero knowledge about China otherwise you would know about Xiaoping's reforms and wouldn't mention Mao every chance you get.

History isn't linear nor cyclical by the way.

Using China's past to predict its future is just nonsense.

 

Thailand won't choose between China and the US.

It will play one country against the other to secure the best deal for itself.

 

China is the biggest regional power.

Its military strength and influence will keep growing fast.

Its GDP will reach $64T by 2030 (twice the size of the US economy).

The Chinese middle class is booming and Thailand will benefit enormously.

E-commerce in Asia is dominated by Chinese companies.

I could go on and on...

 

Anyway, "the choice seems clear" for you.

I don't think it is at all.

I'm not predicting China's future, I'm using its past to frame its present - and yes, past events have a correlation to present.The only narrative I'm pushing is that the CCP cares about the party and it will sacrifice freedoms and rights to protect itself. There's too many examples to list, so I ripped this from Amnesty's website:

 

"The human rights situation across China continued to deteriorate. Human rights lawyers and activists reported harassment and intimidation; unfair trials; arbitrary, incommunicado and lengthy detention; and torture and other ill-treatment for simply exercising their right to freedom of expression and other human rights. The government continued a campaign of political indoctrination, arbitrary mass detention, torture and forced cultural assimilation against Muslims living in Xinjiang. Thousands of Uyghur children were separated from their parents. The National Security Law for Hong Kong enabled human rights violations which were unprecedented since the establishment of the Special Administrative Region."

 

By the way, I find it interesting that Hong Kong citizens went kicking and screaming back to the grip of the CCP; having tasted western freedom, they made it known they didn't want to go back.

 

I don't understand, are you defending China's human rights? What is your arguement?

[bendejo]

Jatuporn is the funniest guy in the redshirt bunch, but I don't think he has a sense of humor.

When he comes out with his babble you have to figure out if he pulled this out of his own backside or Da Boss sent him to deliver the message.