10 year Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa to make living in Thailand “easier and less bureaucratic”

[James105]

7 minutes ago, patman30 said:

most people who qualify
will have many more better options
the risk is much greater than the reward

Thailand is over valueing what it has to offer
which right now is very little.

I see this kind of comment a lot on here.   I qualify quite easily if this visa turns out to be exactly what it says it is going to be.   I'm not sure what better options are there than Thailand for someone who meets the requirements of this visa when taking everything into account (weather, internet speed, cost of living, beaches, people, etc)?   I'm still paying quite high taxes in the UK as I retain tax residency there as it is technically not "legal" to declare I work in Thailand and actually pay taxes here.  This visa would solve that problem and the fact this visa also comes with a "discounted tax rate" is also quite appealing.    

 

I'm quite comfortable in Thailand but am always open to the possibility of better options.    Just wondering what they are and what they offer that is better than this one - if it came to be?  

[zoltannyc]

Very few people  (0.1%-1% of the population of the richest countries) have assets of $1m or can invest $500k or have $80.000 personal income whatever that means[before or after tax], plus a have a $50k health insurance valid in Thailand for ten years. 

And after all the requirements you get a restricted tourist/working visa with immediately police reporting upon arrival (TM30), reporting every 90 day to the police (TM47) plus reporting to the police every year to extending the stay permit again.

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, smedly said:

I have no doubt it will be out of the reach of 99.99999% of people and those that actually meet the criteria will go somewhere else

 

How about offering those that have lived here (or are married to Thai) for 10+ years an easy option to extend their permission to stay for longer periods and an option to pay into the government health system

Great idea, live here permanently for 10+ years and married can get a 5 year ext'n.

[Mavideol]

If I had an income of USD 80K a year I would be living somewhere else.... they should make their visa/ permission of stay easier not more complicated

[Lacrimas]

Requirements are insane. 

[aussiexpat]

56 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

Requirements are insane. 

But, but, but didn't you read about the fantastic privileges you get:

 

"These privileges include: discounted personal income tax rate, the removal of the requirement for employers to hire four Thai citizens per foreigner, fast track at international airports, 1 year reporting to Immigration instead of 90 days, and the overall ease of regulations concerning foreign residents”.

 

So basically if retired, 1 year reporting instead of every 90 days lol

[James105]

6 minutes ago, aussiexpat said:

But, but, but didn't you read about the fantastic privileges you get:

 

"These privileges include: discounted personal income tax rate, the removal of the requirement for employers to hire four Thai citizens per foreigner, fast track at international airports, 1 year reporting to Immigration instead of 90 days, and the overall ease of regulations concerning foreign residents”.

 

So basically if retired, 1 year reporting instead of every 90 days lol

The discounted personal income tax rate could be a big deal for those of us that are not retired which is 17%.    So for someone who is earning £66,000 (which is $80k USD) in the UK (which is where I currently pay tax) then they would be paying £19,691 in tax annually.   Even if the 17% discounted personal rate is a flat rate on all income (which it probably is) then the equivalent annual tax bill in Thailand would be £11,220.

 

Thats a pretty good privilege in my opinion.   

[sqwakvfr]

8 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

You would think that taking care of a Tha wife, a thai child and bringing millions into the thailand economy in said 10 year without fail would make you a 'high potential' person. But no you're just an unwanted mug to the thai long term visa people. Shameful 

You sound like an Aussie I knew in Chiang Mai.  He died a few years ago after living in LOS for over 15 years.  His biggest complaint was this:  In his time in LOS he has spent and invested over 1 million dollars into the Thai Economy.  He has purchased cars, a condo and of course given money to his girlfriend and her family.  But he feels like an “FOB” (Fresh Off the Boat) every time he goes to Immigration. The last time I saw him was at a Bangkok Branch frantically getting his letter in order to extend his Retirement Ext of Stay.  He said “it’s like I just arrived here yesterday even though this will be my 14 annual extension”.  This Aussie never felt he was valued as a “high potential” person even after a million dollars.  

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

100% agree. The treatment is very good as well.  Sometimes at a government hospital the wait can be long but it always works out.

I would suggest that it depends on where you live, personally living in Isaan, I will not go to my local government hospital for treatment, I find parting with 700 to 4,000 baht at a private much quicker, even though I have to travel 2 hours return, the wait is 10 minutes at the most, the environment is much cleaner and the Dr's speak English and have also been trained overseas.

 

If I really had to visit a public hospital it would be a university training hospital which is about a 2 hour + drive which was for day surgery.

[garyk]

7 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Guess I am not leading a sheltered life. Still paying on College loans for my now doctor daughter and CPA daughter. One still in HS with college to come.  At 57, still need to budget wisely in case the inevitable occurs and I am left with nothing except my pension.  Of course we live a nice life style. Monthly trips etc...

 

I have helped my children along the way, but I am just considered Middle class in the US.

 

In this analysis, “middle-income” adults in 2021 are those with an annual household income that was two-thirds to double the national median income in 2020, after incomes have been adjusted for household size, or about $52,000 to $156,000 annually in 2020 dollars for a household of three.

You are doing exactly what you should not be doing, read any article about managing in retirement. Student loans and helping pay , a doctor , CPA. Really?

You are 57 and still have a kiddo in High School. At your age!  You are living the American dream for sure.

[garyk]

4 hours ago, James105 said:

I see this kind of comment a lot on here.   I qualify quite easily if this visa turns out to be exactly what it says it is going to be.   I'm not sure what better options are there than Thailand for someone who meets the requirements of this visa when taking everything into account (weather, internet speed, cost of living, beaches, people, etc)?   I'm still paying quite high taxes in the UK as I retain tax residency there as it is technically not "legal" to declare I work in Thailand and actually pay taxes here.  This visa would solve that problem and the fact this visa also comes with a "discounted tax rate" is also quite appealing.    

 

I'm quite comfortable in Thailand but am always open to the possibility of better options.    Just wondering what they are and what they offer that is better than this one - if it came to be?  

I knew this post was coming... haha

Edited July 6, 2022 by garyk

[aussiexpat]

53 minutes ago, James105 said:

The discounted personal income tax rate could be a big deal for those of us that are not retired which is 17%.    So for someone who is earning £66,000 (which is $80k USD) in the UK (which is where I currently pay tax) then they would be paying £19,691 in tax annually.   Even if the 17% discounted personal rate is a flat rate on all income (which it probably is) then the equivalent annual tax bill in Thailand would be £11,220.

 

Thats a pretty good privilege in my opinion.   

Great for you, so now they just need another 999,999 more people like you as the article says they want a million people to take up this LTR visa ????

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by aussiexpat

[Mr Meeseeks]

Quote

the chance to apply for a Cambodian passport after five years and enjoyment of ASEAN privileges.

The winner, by unanimous decision...

[mudcat]

For me, a 73-year old qualifying pensioner, the benefits include :

 

Drop outpatient and increase my deductible from 20K to 40K on my Pacific Cross Premier Plus plan, becoming a major medical policy dictated by my needs and not what Immigration dreams up next. 

   Total savings in the first year is 57K and in two years when I move into the next rate bracket 77K.   

   The 50K application fee (paid only after approval) is more than offset by one year's insurance savings.

 

Close 800K Bangkok Bank term account  earning 0.5% and use if for something useful or fun.

 

Reduce the interactions with Thai immigration to a minimum - priceless.

 

As I understand the BOI handout, the visa is a 10-year multiple entry visa - no more re-entry permits.

 

For me, this works - and I cannot imagine that it won't work for most OA extensions if they can meet the $80K annual income threshold.

 

Steve

 

Oh, by the way the current charge in the U.S. for a in initial spouse based Green Card is $1,760, removing the two-year condition costs  $595 and each ten-year renewals are currently $540 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by mudcat
neglected to include U.

[Lacrimas]

4 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

But, but, but didn't you read about the fantastic privileges you get:

 

"These privileges include: discounted personal income tax rate, the removal of the requirement for employers to hire four Thai citizens per foreigner, fast track at international airports, 1 year reporting to Immigration instead of 90 days, and the overall ease of regulations concerning foreign residents”.

 

So basically if retired, 1 year reporting instead of every 90 days lol

I'd love to pay taxes and get a digital work permit but simply I'm not that rich (in monthly salary) and not working for Google or Facebook since they are asking for that. Why they don't make it a bank deposit requirement? Don't know... 5 million of baht?

[aussiexpat]

3 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

I'd love to pay taxes and get a digital work permit but simply I'm not that rich (in monthly salary) and not working for Google or Facebook since they are asking for that. Why they don't make it a bank deposit requirement? Don't know... 5 million of baht?

They do, they say you can invest US$250k in Thailand bonds or property. Problem is they don't count people who already have more than $250k in Thai property, they want us to buy a new one

[newnative]

7 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

You're dreaming if you think a US$80k annual pension is just getting by in the rest of the world.

 

I'm self funded retired with a property in Aus and Thailand splitting my time and I'm living well spending less than US$30k per year 

     Agree.   The US is one of the wealthier countries so how are things there?   The average US Social Security payment is a little over $1600 a month, $19,000 and change a year.  64% of Americans say they have less than $10,000 in their retirement accounts so they are going to have to hustle to close the gap to bring their annual retirement income up to $80,000.   For those that are retired, the average median retirement for US retirees 65 and older is $47,357 a year, well under the supposedly 'just getting by' 80k.

    

     

[ThailandRyan]

3 hours ago, mudcat said:

For me, a 73-year old qualifying pensioner, the benefits include :

 

Drop outpatient and increase my deductible from 20K to 40K on my Pacific Cross Premier Plus plan, becoming a major medical policy dictated by my needs and not what Immigration dreams up next. 

   Total savings in the first year is 57K and in two years when I move into the next rate bracket 77K.   

   The 50K application fee (paid only after approval) is more than offset by one year's insurance savings.

 

Close 800K Bangkok Bank term account  earning 0.5% and use if for something useful or fun.

 

Reduce the interactions with Thai immigration to a minimum - priceless.

 

As I understand the BOI handout, the visa is a 10-year multiple entry visa - no more re-entry permits.

 

For me, this works - and I cannot imagine that it won't work for most OA extensions if they can meet the $80K annual income threshold.

 

Steve

 

Oh, by the way the current charge in the U.S. for a in initial spouse based Green Card is $1,760, removing the two-year condition costs  $595 and each ten-year renewals are currently $540 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 10 year renewal is just for an updated photo and biometrics, nothing to do with permanent residency they already have.  Many never redo the green card, and many never inform if they move, it's not like they force us to do here every 90 days.

[BangkokReady]

13 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

You're dreaming if you think a US$80k annual pension is just getting by in the rest of the world.

I believe it's known as the "humble brag".

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I believe it's known as the "humble brag".

Middle class is a humble brag right?  If I only had a place here and never went back and forth i can understand seeming to be wealthy, but a millionaire I am not.  Comfortable yes. Wealthy implies one can go out and buy what one wants, I am hardly in that boat.....

[peterfranks]

14 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

A pensioner averaging $6,666 dollars a month for the $80k a year amount is considered wealthy for applying for the LTR. Anywhere else on the world they would be just getting by.  Do I qualify, sure, but how is an 80k pension considered wealthy.

 

14 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

100% agree. The treatment is very good as well.  Sometimes at a government hospital the wait can be long but it always works out.

So you qualify for $80K pension a year, and I saw a post of yours today where you claimed to have saved 100K baht on the exchange rate compared to your January transfer, which translates to as at least a 10 million baht transfer, and in the same post you stated your next transfer would be even much bigger. So you must be a very very wealthy man, according to your own statements.

 

And now you post your experience with government hospitals.

 

Sure I must be missing something here.

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

 

So you qualify for $80K pension a year, and I saw a post of yours today where you claimed to have saved 100K baht on the exchange rate compared to your January transfer, which translates to as at least a 10 million baht transfer, and in the same post you stated your next transfer would be even much bigger. So you must be a very very wealthy man, according to your own statements.

 

And now you post your experience with government hospitals.

 

Sure I must be missing something here.

Your point being what and it was a 24k USD transfer. I transfer twice a year. Last transfer was at 30 baht to $1. Using a government hospital does not mean a provincial hospital in the village. I do have insurance and why should I spend big money at a private hospital. You have me confused with someone who throws money away. I am 57 and if I don't invest what I have what will I have in 20 years....sure I have more than a regular person on SS, but then I got lucky. You better do your math again.  Not wealthy by any means.

Edited July 6, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[peterfranks]

.

Edited July 6, 2022 by peterfranks

[d4dang]

I have no idea how much I have spent in Thailand since 1984 but like most expats our contributions count for nothing in the eyes of the government which we financially support day in and day out. Now the government wants "quality" tourists. We get the dead buffalo deal from the government repeatedly....just pay up...things will change for the better soon

[gearbox]

12 hours ago, James105 said:

The discounted personal income tax rate could be a big deal for those of us that are not retired which is 17%.    So for someone who is earning £66,000 (which is $80k USD) in the UK (which is where I currently pay tax) then they would be paying £19,691 in tax annually.   Even if the 17% discounted personal rate is a flat rate on all income (which it probably is) then the equivalent annual tax bill in Thailand would be £11,220.

 

Thats a pretty good privilege in my opinion.   

Meh...I just don't see many big corporations paying Joe Bloggs' salary or consulting fees directly to his Thai bank account. The HR/Payroll systems are normally working with local bank accounts, payments to exotic countries will raise eyebrows and trigger questions.

 

If indeed a big corporation is willing to pay to a foreign account then it may be better to get paid in tax heaven with zero tax. The difference between zero and 17% can buy Elite visas and more.

[Baron Samedi]

The Philippines is offering a 5 years visa for digital nomads / workationers.

Easy stay + no taxes on money made abroad.

That's the way Thailand should go rather than trying to attract AI experts and nuclear physicists - those don't give a rat's ass about the kingdom and what it has to offer.

Thai leadership = ????

[starky]

22 hours ago, smedly said:

I have no doubt it will be out of the reach of 99.99999% of people and those that actually meet the criteria will go somewhere else

 

How about offering those that have lived here (or are married to Thai) for 10+ years an easy option to extend their permission to stay for longer periods and an option to pay into the government health system

Part of the ltr visa was supposed to cover those with dependents but they never elaborated on what conditions those with dependents would need to adhere to.

[starky]

I think wealthy pensioner is a little misleading tbh. I'm not far off 50 and I still earn way more than the 80k US a year to qualify. Having said that now the covid madness is over I will resume going to Savannakhet to get my yearly non- o multiple entry from there. Price 5k baht. So basically the same price as the ltr. And before anyone burrs up I actually enjoy going to Mukdahan once a year and the cost for me to do so is negligible. 

  So I can get the same result for the same price still don't have to deal with Thai bureaucracy at all and it appears all I miss out on by doing that is a fast track at Suvarnabhumi. 

Wow!

[Boomer6969]

17 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

Requirements are insane. 

They are not. They are only for solid middle income/wealth.

 

The problem will their enforcement. Thai xenophobic Immigration bureaucracy will take over and deter most candidates. Why do they have currently 3 or 4 long term retirement visas? It is simply history repeating itself, and they don't even see the problem, too dumb, they just come up with yet another visa.

[Everyman]

5 hours ago, starky said:

I think wealthy pensioner is a little misleading tbh. I'm not far off 50 and I still earn way more than the 80k US a year to qualify. Having said that now the covid madness is over I will resume going to Savannakhet to get my yearly non- o multiple entry from there. Price 5k baht. So basically the same price as the ltr. And before anyone burrs up I actually enjoy going to Mukdahan once a year and the cost for me to do so is negligible. 

  So I can get the same result for the same price still don't have to deal with Thai bureaucracy at all and it appears all I miss out on by doing that is a fast track at Suvarnabhumi. 

Wow!

The requirements about “pensions” are specific, it’s not just wanting 80k+ it has to be in a “pension,” which is a rather outdated way of looking at the income. I suppose that means an annuity if it was the result of a personal investment.