LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[oldcpu]

Just now, JimTripper said:

What a dumb assumption. You could be hit with a huge tax bill all at once assuming that.

 

What assumption are you referring to? DId you read my post correctly?

[Ben Zioner]

4 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

I assume its those, who want to bring a large amount of money into Thailand at one time, and do so immediately upon obtaining the LTR Visa, who are mostly concerned about how the taxation law is applied. 

But any money earned before Jan 1, 2024 and remitted this year won't be taxed anyhow, LTR or not. But IMHO transferring anything earned since Jan 1 would be totally unwise.

[oldcpu]

9 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

But any money earned before Jan 1, 2024 and remitted this year won't be taxed anyhow, LTR or not. But IMHO transferring anything earned since Jan 1 would be totally unwise.

 

Indeed, as I typed :  "  I assume its those, who want to bring a large amount of money into Thailand at one time, and do so immediately upon obtaining the LTR Visa, who are mostly concerned about how the taxation law is applied.   " 

 

How Jim Tripper believes that is a bad assumption to be concerned , and because one is concerned one could be hit with a huge tax bill all at once (for their concern) - makes ZERO sense to me. "Concern" implies one needs to be careful (and act accordingly to manage not paying unnecessary tax).  I can only assume he read my post too quickly and misunderstood the word 'concerned'.

Edited June 4 by oldcpu

[Ben Zioner]

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Indeed, as I typed :  "  I assume its those, who want to bring a large amount of money into Thailand at one time, and do so immediately upon obtaining the LTR Visa, who are mostly concerned about how the taxation law is applied.   " 

 

How Jim Tripper believes that is a bad assumption to be concerned , and because one is concerned one could be hit with a huge tax bill all at once (for their concern) - makes ZERO sense to me. "Concern" implies one needs to be careful.  I can only assume he read my post too quickly and misunderstood the word 'concerned'.

Yeah, aren't we all a bit trigger happy occasionally, especially when we get close to menstruating.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

I mostly thought the same - but it turns out, for the income documents I provided, they misunderstood what they read?  ... < I am unsure >  .  Maybe I summarized things badly in my cover 'PDF' files.

 

For example, I listed in a simple cover PDF (supported in subsequent pages in the PDF) how I met the $40K US$ equivalent income for a wealthy pensioner (I received income from different sources, from both Canada and Europe).  I clearly listed all my income (including tax documents) and supported this in subsequent pages with copies of official government documents noting the pensions.

 

In the case of Canada, I listed my "Old Age Security" (and I provided the appropriate Canadian government tax document).  I did not receive a Canadian Pension yet, so I did not obviously list that as part of my income. 

 

Yet BOI sent me an Information Request, asking to see the taxation document for my Canadian Pension ! 

 

I first phoned them, and then followed up with a PDF reply to their document request, noting I did not yet receive a Canadian Pension, nor did I need a Canadian Pension to meet the $40K US$ equivalent - where I again listed the exact sources (with supporting documents) as to where my income came from (all passive pensions).

 

They only then accepted my answer - but I am still puzzled to this day, why did they ask for my taxation proof of a Canadian pension, when I never claimed to have such a pension.  .... I can only assume they read, were puzzled, and wanted more information?

 

Or maybe the BoI screening officer wanted me to show significantly more income than I was already showing, so they could get my LTR-WP visa approved by their superior?  i don't know.   It was/is a puzzle.

 

 

My opinion only, I worked for the US gvt including 4 years military and from my experiences at all levels, the folks in the BOI office that interface with applicants, have a SET of documents that THEIR supervisors who actually approve the issuance of the visa can accept.  Their supervisors do not and will not try to figure out what any  documents say other than those that they will acdept without any

explanation.  Originally, I felt that my 1099R's for two years documenting exactly what I was paid by the Office of Personnel Management that sends my pension funds monthly, and the taxes taken out

also monthly, plus my monthly annuity documents also provided by OPM monthly for 2024, would be sufficient documentation but, only after talking with them on the phone, I realized that the only documents that their supervisors were really concerned with were my 1040's for two year.  I had already gotten a letter sent from my health insurance provider stating that my coverage for hospitalization was USD $50K even though I had already submitted the benefits package from my insurance provider stating that hospitalization coverage was "UNLIMITED" so even more that the 50K but it was obvious that the BOI folks' supervisors wanted that written figure on a letter from the health insurance provider.  Once I gave them the 1040's, within less than a week I was told I could make an appointment to receive my stamps.  Easy once I understood that the folks in the BOI are just "weeding" out anything that would cause their bosses to have to figure whether or not some document or letter was valid

documentation for the qualifications.  Too much explanation could cause even more problems.  Documentation needs to be clear and fits with their expectations.  Good luck.

[Presnock]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:39 PM, K2938 said:

Correct

not correct.  The BOI advertises that they will assist any LTR applicant that wishes to work in Thailand, in getting a work permit.  Therefore, tax exemtpt is only for funds remitted from overseas and any salary earned in Thailand that is assessable, will be paid at the 17% level.  That is the advertised benefit.  Google the BOI LTR and read the benefits for each of the categories.  a WEALTHY PENSIONER can obtain a  work permit too.

[Presnock]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:59 PM, JohnnyBD said:

Thank you all for being very helpful. I've been stressing out over the past few months with this tax thing (I'm on marriage extension), then, after reading this thread, it gave me some hope that my life here could still be relatively stress-free and enjoyable. I received my new passport in the mail from the US Embassy, and had the visa stamps transferred today, so I will start the LTR process tomorrow. I am hoping for a smooth approval process. Thanks again for all the advice.

If you have any questions about the documentation, feel free to query me and I will advise as I am an American who just got my LTR in March 2024 - took about 3 weeks total time.  I had several phone calls with the BOI as they questioned some of my documentation that literally fit the qualifications perfectly as an English speaker both in finance and health insurance but once that I chatted with them I realized that other documents that were just as easily obtained fit their needs perfectly and yes from there only a week and I was in.  I did the wealthy pensioner - used 1040 tax doc for 2 previous years and health insurance although unlimited benefits, needed to get a letter from the insurer stating in writing of the USD $50K hospitalization.  Easily done and quickly.

[JohnnyBD]

8 minutes ago, Presnock said:

If you have any questions about the documentation, feel free to query me and I will advise as I am an American who just got my LTR in March 2024 - took about 3 weeks total time.  I had several phone calls with the BOI as they questioned some of my documentation that literally fit the qualifications perfectly as an English speaker both in finance and health insurance but once that I chatted with them I realized that other documents that were just as easily obtained fit their needs perfectly and yes from there only a week and I was in.  I did the wealthy pensioner - used 1040 tax doc for 2 previous years and health insurance although unlimited benefits, needed to get a letter from the insurer stating in writing of the USD $50K hospitalization.  Easily done and quickly.

Thanks for your help. I hope mine goes quickly too. I submitted everything on May 29. I only submitted my 2023 tax return, 1099s, $50k insurance, along with my SS gov't & pension verification letters & 1099s and history printout. I didn't submit any 2022 tax year docs. I tried to go back and submit them after reading your post, but the system was locked, and it wouldn't let me add anything else. I guess if they need my 2022 docs, they will call or email me. I am waiting anxiously...

Edited June 4 by JohnnyBD

[Presnock]

Just now, JohnnyBD said:

Thanks for your help. I hope mine goes thru quickly too. I submitted everything on May 29. I only submitted my 2023 tax return, 1099s, $50k insurance, along with my SS gov't & pension verification letters & 1099s and history printout. I didn't submit any 2022 tax year docs. I tried to go back and submit them after reading your post, but the system was locked, and it wouldn't let me add anything else. I guess if they need my 2022 docs, they will call or email me. I am waiting anxiously...

yes, if they need any further documents they will email you or you can check online with your application number and see if it is asking for anything additional to be added in each category.  Good luck

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

I didn't submit any 2022 tax year docs.

I got my LTR WP back in July 2023. I queried BoI about whether or not one or two years of tax returns were needed. Here's the answer I got back:

Quote

For Wealthy Pensioner category, you will only need to submit the income of previous year or last 12 months, meaning that it will be for year 2022 only. We do not need an income from 2021.

 

I guess you'll find out whether or not a second year's tax return is required...... Curious.

[stat]

9 hours ago, JimGant said:

I got my LTR WP back in July 2023. I queried BoI about whether or not one or two years of tax returns were needed. Here's the answer I got back:

I guess you'll find out whether or not a second year's tax return is required...... Curious.

Very interesting and good to hear that they only want the last 12 months for LTR WP. How did you prove the last 12 months or is it last calendar year? Thanks!

 

PS: If it is March I do not have any tax documents for the year before as an example.

[K2938]

13 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I note two years have mostly gone by since the LTR visa was announced, and I have not yet heard nor read of any case (not even one case)  where an LTR visa holder had to pay tax on money that that they brought into Thailand since getting the LTR Visa.

Your argument appears to miss that prior to 2024 all income not submitted in the year it was earned was tax-free for anybody and that remittance taxation was mostly not really enforced against foreigners anyway.

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, K2938 said:

Your argument appears to miss that prior to 2024 all income not submitted in the year it was earned was tax-free for anybody and that remittance taxation was mostly not really enforced against foreigners anyway.

 

True for the 2023 tax year (where tax returns would nominally be filed early in year 2024)

 

... although I believe your point not true for the 2022 tax year (where tax returns nominally filed early in year 2023), as I believe that recent note about foreign income brought into Thailand had not yet been announced in very early 2023. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong re: the 2022 tax year.   

 

Also I note dependent on how much financial information one provided to BoI during their LTR visa application, the BoI may have a good insight into one's finances, and BoI might spot that year 2022 income was brought into Thailand (by a foreigner) was brought into Thailnd in the same year it was earned - and they could 'theoretically' (albeit I don't believe it) have passed such to the Thai Revenue Department. Again, I don't believe this. But in such a case, the Thai RD would then have clear evidence for enforcement of taxation under the previous tax interpretation, if they wanted.   I have heard of no such cases.  I believe that is consistent with the view - no taxation on money brought into Thailand by LTR visa holders.

 

Also, the Thai RD tax clarification for foreigner tax residents to pay tax (on money brought into Thailand) was after the LTR visa first came out, and as I noted there was a time window where I believe my comment applied. 

 

So I think the 'comment' of mine (that you quote) was valid for one taxation year (before the recent tax announcements,  that I assume you are noting).

 

Regardless, as noted multiple times on this thread, BoI have made it clear for LTR visa holders (such as LTR-WP) that foreign money brought into Thailand is not taxed by Thailand. 

 

Again, when one nominally files an income tax return, the income noted in one's income tax return is for the PREVIOUS year. One does not file a tax return for income still being earned in the current year.   Hence many of us interpret this as confirming no Thai tax on that income for the noted LTR visa holders. This is FULLY CONSISTENT with what BoI have stated.

 

I also agree, as also noted in this thread, if one is concerned, then simply wait a year (as in the past) after earning the money, before bringing the money into Thailand. 

 

The tax understanding of the situation should be more clear in a year or two from now.  

 

A further point I want to make, is that the very same as in the past, its also difficult for Thailand RD to know which year money brought into Thailand was earned (and whether such covered by a DTA), unless one has already passed such information to BoI or to the Thai RD  ,  and if in the case of BoI, ... only if BoI then went and passed such information to the Thai RD there might (?) for some, be a concern?  That all reads to be very unlikely and problematical to me.  

 

Still, I agree with all that it would be more re-assuring for some, if the Thai RD, in addition to BoI, would simply state (  'no Thai taxation on any foreign money brought into Thailand' ) for LTR visa holders, just like BoI have stated). 

 

I am not worried about such, but my financial situation is likely very different from others.

Edited June 4 by oldcpu

[frankstraube]

8 hours ago, stat said:

Very interesting and good to hear that they only want the last 12 months for LTR WP. How did you prove the last 12 months or is it last calendar year? Thanks!

 

PS: If it is March I do not have any tax documents for the year before as an example.

The past 2 years for the income...so you need to wait till you get the tax return for last year.

[K2938]

5 hours ago, oldcpu said:

... although I believe your point not true for the 2022 tax year (where tax returns nominally filed early in year 2023), as I believe that recent note about foreign income brought into Thailand had not yet been announced in very early 2023. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong re: the 2022 tax year.

As you specifically asked:  Applies to 2022 just as to 2023.  Tax advisers said when the LTR visa came out that the remittance tax privilege of the LTR visa was really just clever marketing since at that time it applied to everybody anyway

 

[SHA 2 BKK]

Some comments in the Publication that cannot be named today about the LTR.  Government "crowing" about the scheme with over 4000 successful applicants.   They want to try to attract more. 

 

There were a few "trouble makers" who I think didn't qualify for the LTR jumping on our thread a couple of weeks ago - trying to suggest that the "new" Government would do away with the LTR as it was closely tied to the previous Government.  The opposite seems true.  The more the merrier I say.   Biggest group (791) is from the US then Russians, UK, China, Germany and France.   

 

Whilst Russians and Chinese are on the list I guess the LTR is even more safe 55555

[khunjeff]

1 hour ago, frankstraube said:

The past 2 years for the income...so you need to wait till you get the tax return for last year.

 

That has not been the experience of multiple applicants on this forum (or of one of my friends who doesn't post here). Despite the "past two years" verbiage, BoI actually seems fine - for the WP category - with financial evidence that only covers the previous year (and said as much explicitly to @JimGant, as he related above).

 

There have also been several people here who dealt with the issue of applying before the current year's income tax return was due, and who simply explained to BoI that they hadn't filed yet. They just submitted the prior year's return along with statements and other evidence for the current year, and were approved with no issues.

[JimGant]

10 hours ago, stat said:

How did you prove the last 12 months or is it last calendar year? Thanks!

As I applied in July 2023, I only sent Tax Year 2022's Form 1040 and related 1099's.

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, K2938 said:

Tax advisers said when the LTR visa came out that the remittance tax privilege of the LTR visa was really just clever marketing since at that time it applied to everybody anyway

 

 

I think, in practice,  that was true for most, but it was not true for all.  It was not true in my case.

 

One of my pensions is from a multi-national organisation, where I am required to pay tax in accordance with the law of the country in which I am a resident.  Before obtaining the LTR visa, I would always leave my income in Europe (and live in Thailand off of savings) and hence I believe I was in practice not in trouble with Thai authorities (for as you note, the remittance taxation practice applied to everyone before the more recent clarification/change). 

 

However the multi-organisation which provided that pension, queried me about my taxation, and they were a bit skeptical when I noted I was compliant with Thai law (as I was not bringing my income into Thailand). Before the LTR visa I could not then easily point to any Thai tax document.  They did in the end accept I was legally compliant (based more on faith than me having any revenue document to prove), but it did require a bit of convincing.

 

The same was true with an investment I made in Canada. They wanted proof of my paying tax on my global incomes, and they were skeptical in regards to the 'remittance taxation practice' of Thailand in regards to my taxation practice for Thailand (the country of my residence) - in particular for some of my European income.  Again, they did in the end accept I was legally compliant, but it did require a bit of convincing.

 

This was a bit annoying to me to have to convince people I was legally compliant in regards to tax.  I would get strange looks and queries, and I was on the receiving end of inferences that I was avoiding paying tax (which was not the case - I was taxation compliant).

 

Now with the LTR Visa, and RD 743, I can show them such and its much easier for me.  Its much more clear than before (albeit not perfectly clear, as has been pointed out by the concerns of some in this LTR thread).

 

As often is the case in life, any given legislation will be helpful for some, and not helpful for others. 

Edited June 5 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

20 minutes ago, JimGant said:

As I applied in July 2023, I only sent Tax Year 2022's Form 1040 and related 1099's.

 

I wonder if this also may dependent on the BoI 'screening' officer. 

 

When I applied in Jan-2023, I sent both 2020 and 2021 taxation documents - and they insisted on receiving my 2022 taxation documents (which nominally is not due in Canada until April-2023).  By the time the dust settled to obtain my LTR-WP visa, I ended up sending BoI taxation documents for 3 years. 

 

I concede thou, it may have just been bad timing on my part.  Applying in January or February of a year may not be the best time when applying for an LTR visa (as BoI will ask for most recent tax documents, even if not yet available).

.

[Pib]

Yes, one 

2 hours ago, frankstraube said:

The past 2 years for the income...so you need to wait till you get the tax return for last year.

 

Not sure where above snapshot is from....possibly from older BOI LTR required docs information.

 

For a LTR Pension visa only one year of tax returns "OR" at time of application.  See below BOI weblink/snapshot....it's from the BOI LTR website as of 5 June 2024/today under the Required Docs icon/sub-link.   

 

Even if your most recent tax return shows you under the required income requirement if recent events such as a Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) which is common with a lot of retirement pensions now puts you over the requirement income level then then documents showing your new income amount such as pension/annuity monthly statement, benefit letter, etc., will provide the necessary proof. 

 

Now BOI will probably still want to see your most recent tax return which like if you were submitting an application today/5 June would be for the tax year of Jan-Dec 2023 but even if the amount on the tax return is below the required income amount as long as the "current" documents from your pension/annuity payor show you the current amount has increased like due to COLA then that will satisfy BOI--I was in that exact situation for my LTR application in late 2022 and my LTR-P was approved.  

 

Tax returns merely serve as secondary proof/support of your income in some situations especially when they do not yet show income increases like from COLA of a current pension, just starting a new pension, just starting a Required Minimum Distribution (RMD) from a 401K/IRA type saving plan, etc.  This is when documents/benefit letters/month statement/etc., from the pension/annuity paying agent become the primary proof.  

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Required-docs-Wealthy-Pensioners-14-05-2024.pdf

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Some comments in the Publication that cannot be named today about the LTR.  Government "crowing" about the scheme with over 4000 successful applicants.  

 

 

Thankyou for noting that publication article. I went and searched and found it.

 

Of interest to me, is the article states in excess of 4,000 holders of the LTR visa.  Note the word "holders".

 

Now if one goes to the BoI website for the LTR visa, one will read as of the end of April-2024 there were 7,322 applicants for the LTR visa.   

 

Basic math (assuming both those websites are accurate), suggest there could be about 3,000 applicants for the LTR visa who either had the application declined, or who are still waiting the LTR visa approval. 

Edited June 5 by oldcpu

[Mike Teavee]

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yes, one 

 

Not sure where above snapshot is from....possibly from older BOI LTR required docs information.

 

For a LTR Pension visa only one year of tax returns "OR" at time of application.  See below BOI weblink/snapshot....it's from the BOI LTR website as of 5 June 2024/today under the Required Docs icon/sub-link.   

 

Even if your most recent tax return shows you under the required income requirement if recent events such as a Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) which is common with a lot of retirement pensions now puts you over the requirement income level then then documents showing your new income amount such as pension/annuity monthly statement, benefit letter, etc., will provide the necessary proof. 

 

Now BOI will probably still want to see your most recent tax return which like if you were submitting an application today/5 June would be for the tax year of Jan-Dec 2023 but even if the amount on the tax return is below the required income amount as long as the "current" documents from your pension/annuity payor show you the current amount has increased like due to COLA then that will satisfy BOI--I was in that exact situation for my LTR application in late 2022 and my LTR-P was approved.  

 

Tax returns merely serve as secondary proof/support of your income in some situations especially when they do not yet show income increases like from COLA of a current pension, just starting a new pension, just starting a Required Minimum Distribution (RMD) from a 401K/IRA type saving plan, etc.  This is when documents/benefit letters/month statement/etc., from the pension/annuity paying agent become the primary proof.  

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Required-docs-Wealthy-Pensioners-14-05-2024.pdf

 

Many thanks for this, giving me some confidence that I'll be able to apply as soon as my Pensions kick in (Feb 2026) instead of having to wait for a full year or even worse until I've filed my UK Tax Return the following year (I normally file in June/July). 

 

As an aside, it seems Capital Gains has been removed from the example of Unearned/Passive Income & a quick search of the pdf shows the word Capital doesn't appear anywhere.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

As an aside, it seems Capital Gains has been removed from the example of Unearned/Passive Income & a quick search of the pdf shows the word Capital doesn't appear anywhere.

But their main page still lists capital gains as being acceptable.     I expect capital gains falls under the category of  "....other types of passive income..." talked in the required docs.   Just gotta be "unearned/passive" income (i.e., now salary/wages income).

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

[Pib]

Whoops... I made a typo above....meant to say (i.e., not salary/wages income).

[stat]

7 hours ago, frankstraube said:

The past 2 years for the income...so you need to wait till you get the tax return for last year.

Thank you for your reply. However I Jim Gant stated only 1 year was needed in his case for LTR WP. In my case a tax statement does not show the majority of my income anyway as it is taxed at source by the bank.

Thanks to PiB also showing that only one year of proof seems to be enough as proof of income.

Edited June 5 by stat

[stat]

I recommend to google the following term "New overseas income rules" for an article that claims that ALL income (not just remitted!)will be taxed according to the head of TRD pending a law change. How and if that could change anything regarding LTR WP is beyond me.

[oldcpu]

29 minutes ago, stat said:

I recommend to google the following term "New overseas income rules" for an article that claims that ALL income (not just remitted!)will be taxed according to the head of TRD pending a law change. How and if that could change anything regarding LTR WP is beyond me.

 

I read the article, and I can't help but think the author of the article is mixing up business/company taxes and personal taxes.

 

I note that because the article stated: " Ms Kulaya said the department plans to expand the tax base by requiring platforms with an income of 1 billion baht or more to report their sources of income."  ... Serious ??  1-billion baht income per year?  How many individuals is that applicable to ?  

 

The remainder of the article may or may not be true - but its a mishmash , jumping back and forth between business requirements for tax and that for individuals, and not making it clear which may be applicable to which.

 

Very poorly written article. Very poor.

 

Also, it makes ZERO reference to the LTR visa, so is it even applicable here? 

Edited June 5 by oldcpu

[stat]

14 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

I read the article, and I can't help but think the author of the article is mixing up business/company taxes and personal taxes.

 

I note that because the article stated: " Ms Kulaya said the department plans to expand the tax base by requiring platforms with an income of 1 billion baht or more to report their sources of income."  ... Serious ??  1-billion baht income per year?  How many individuals is that applicable to ?  

 

The remainder of the article may or may not be true - but its a mishmash , jumping back and forth between business requirements for tax and that for individuals, and not making it clear which may be applicable to which.

 

Very poorly written article. Very poor.

 

Also, it makes ZERO reference to the LTR visa, so is it even applicable here? 

The 1 Billion is in regard to companies i.e. plattforms like Grab, Ebay etc. I assume TRD wants info on what Somchai sold on Ebay or earned as a Grab driver. Same happened in my country Germany. Ebay has to report all income above a certain threshold directly to the German IRS.

[BritTim]

On 6/4/2024 at 9:34 AM, Presnock said:

if you qualify, get an LTR visa from the Board of Investment (4 categories) and they will also get you a work permit if you want to work.  No taxes on remitted funds from outside Thailand and lower taxes on Thai earned income.  Just saying, a lot cheaper than the elite visa

 

I 100% agree that the LTR visa is almost always better than the alternatives for those who qualify. The LTR program was well conceived and (contrary to my scepticism) has been well implemented with no evidence of corruption.